Usually I read trash-talking comments on my blogs and then put them out of my mind. I enjoy responding to thoughtful people who have a different point of view. But I don't see much point in answering gibberish.
Today, though, I'll make an exception. I'm in the mood to reply in kind to a guy who strongly challenged my churchlessness. I assume you won't mind me being (almost) equally blunt, Richard.
You said it like you see it. Here's my own outlook on Radha Soami Satsang Beas, based on my thirty-eight years of experience with the organization.
The content of Richard's comment is in italics. My response follows each of the quotes from his blog comment, which I've left as he wrote it.
The Masters of RSSB-are an example for all of us in the world
Sure. Agreed. So is everyone else in the world. Each person can serve as an example for someone else. That's what parenting is all about. And teaching. Sports, also. There are good examples and bad examples. We have to pick and choose who deserves our emulation, and who doesn't.
if you have beeen lucky enough to see them hear them talk read their discourses-with an open unbiased mind-they do not want followers to rush blindly after them-this path is one of total commitment -just like any path.
I've seen them. I've heard them talk. I've read their words. I was totally committed to the RSSB path for well over thirty years. So I've walked the path and know where it led for me.
Before judging this path -have you ever read one word written by the RSSB masters,- concepts of spirituality remain in the domain of the intellect-whereas experiencing first hand within the inner bliss say of meditation-this is the path,the real path of sound and light,the holy name,word shabd,nam,Tao,bang-i-ismani. give it any namit is the same EXPERIENCE.
Good god. I've read every word in every RSSB book. Several times. I know the difference between concepts and experience. Every mystic, every spiritual guide, every philosopher – everybody knows that difference. If you've had a experience, Richard, that's your experience. I've had my own experiences. They're all just that: personal experiences. Christians have them. Buddhists too. And Hindus. Not to mention atheists and agnostics. They don't prove anything about the nature of really real reality.
For those so called ex -satsangis remember this is a path of forgiveness-the teacher who has your best interests at heart has not turned his head away from you-go back to class and see-there he is 24/7
There's no sign of him, dude. He hasn't popped up in thirty-eight years of meditation. Best explanation: the guru isn't who devotees believe he is, God. I've never heard one disciple, not one, tell me that they're in contact with the astral/spiritual form of the master. So he's not there to be seen, in my experience. The guru is only there to be imagined, which is a big difference.
-He is ready to accept ALL those who wish to learn -don't forget WE are not teachers are we?
We're all teachers. As well as students. There are countless teachers, and countless students. It's crazy to believe that only your teacher has the truth. In religion and spirituality everyone believes they, and only they, have the truth. Obviously, everyone who believes this is wrong. Like you are, Richard.
however one can not relinquish ones duty as a student in a university to study and pass the core curricculum nor blame the institution if we fail at passing our exam-it is not the libraries fault if we refuse to digest the knowledge therein. So it is with the perfect masters The Professors Emiritus of The University of Spritualty-the Shabd Illumni-so to say
You're a true believer, Richard. I used to be one too. So I can't fault you for believing. But I can criticize you for being blind to your own dogma. You're no different from a fundamentalist Christian, Muslim, or Jew. They all think they're right, and everyone else is wrong. In university studies, scholars come to agree on core truths. This doesn't exist in religion or spirituality. I used to argue that it did, but I was wrong. There isn't a core spiritual curriculum, Richard. It only exists for you, not in reality. Again, there's a big difference between what you believe and what is real.
These perfect ones and I mean perfect-they never hurt anyone , never accept a single dime from anyone personally-they work normal jobs they havefamilies or not .they go through the samr problems as us-they meditate daily they pay taxes have friends are generous build charitable hospitals-now does a selfish person wrapped up in their own little world do that ?
You make no sense. You're saying that the RSSB masters are just like us. And they are. Lots of people, including me, never hurt anyone, don't accept a single dime from anyone personally, work a normal job ( before I retired), have a family, pay taxes, and go through problems. So I guess I'm a perfect master. You may worship me, Richard. I give a lot to charitable causes. I spend countless hours serving my community/neighborhood. Obviously I'm perfect – along with countless other normal human beings. What makes a RSSB guru more perfect than any other person? Answer me, Richard. Show me the evidence, the experience.
In short do any or all of YOU American haters of the path of Sant Mat TAKE ON THE KARMAS OF OVER 2 million human beings? No! I didn't think so.
I don't know. Maybe I do. Maybe this explains why my hair has turned gray. What makes you think the RSSB masters do this? This is just a concept that you've come to believe, Richard. Where's the proof of it?
Well before you cast aspersions on Gurinder Singh or any other master past or present-have a look at your own spirituality-take a good long look at your past lives,your present self righteous one -and I know about that -I am in the club too-but I have EXPERIENCED the mountain top, I have been to the summit of Christ,-I KNOW who Gt Master is Charan Singh and all the VERY FEW perfect masters in this world -maybe just One....
Your humility is obvious, Richard. Clearly your vast spiritual experiences have done a lot to reduce your ego. Congratulations. As for me, I'm just an ignorant fool. Yes, I'm self-righteously ignorant. I'm supremely confident that I don't know squat about ultimate reality. I'm also pretty sure that no one else does either. You claim absolute knowledge, though. Pretty impressive. Please share one verifiable truth about the cosmos that no one else knows, but you do. Like, say, how quantum theory and relativity theory fit together. Einstein worked on this for several decades and couldn't figure it out. No scientist has, so far. Leave a comment on this blog that explains it. Since you've been to the "mountain top" of reality, that should be easy for you to do.
so American fanatics of hatred of the so called ex satsangi get real -WHY DID YOU APPLY to be INITIATED in the first place? Exactly! You want love-? You want bliss-? You want spirituality? Well then -GO INSIDE-shut the criticising mouth and meditate. Do your simran do your bhajan-read discourses -stay married. You heard.Be a diciple if YOU got the guts.
I meditated every day for over thirty years. Give me a break. Many of those years, for the prescribed two and a half hours. I've been a disciple. I've walked the walk. I just never had the experiences that RSSB claims a disciple will have in meditation. I got initiated because I wanted truth, love, and spirituality. I still want those things. Even more than before. That's why I'm looking for them in a different direction now, because I'm not going to spend my whole life in a spiritual dead end.
You and I are either on the bus or off the bus,-as Baba Ji says Here is an example of a prayer witten -n 1947 by the Great Master My Lord I am ignorant I do not know what to ask from you. Give me that which you think best for me.And give me the strength and wisdom to be happy about what you deem fit to give me and about how and where you keep me .I have no virtue , no devotion.My actions are all dark and sinful. I possess no merits and the mind has thoroughly crushed me,For a sinner like myself,O Lord there is no refuge but Thy Blessed Feet,I want nothing more. Make me Thy slave, that I become Thine and Thou mayst become mine Sawan Singh-1858-1948
I'm very familiar with that prayer. I assume you believe it, since you quoted it. The guru is saying that he has no virtue, no devotion. He has no merits and the mind has crushed him. Yet you, Richard, believe that you're way beyond all that. You know it all, whereas the Great Master didn't. You say he wrote this in 1947, a year before he died. It sounds like Sawan Singh was humble up to the end. Maybe you could learn something from him.
And another thing Mohammed was a perfect living master of his time-you never been inside -don't judge true muslims then until you have seen within so to say and you have never read the Koran -suggest you do then-then go to a mosque-ex satsangi -American racist oofas.
Hmmmm. I've never heard that Mohammed was a perfect living master. So I assume you believe the Koran is all true. I've read the Koran. It's full of a lot of ridiculous stuff, like every holy book. I'm not racist. I just don't believe in Islam, like I don't believe in Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, or any other religion. So why should I go to a mosque?
Also can Jesus and Mohammed Guru Nanak, Sawan Singh Charan Singh Rongomai O Te Whiti etc be seen within? The answer is yes- easier than sending am email to the Church of the Churchless Alofa Richard
Say hello to them for me, Richard. Tell them I'd like to have a chat. Have them drop by in my meditation tomorrow. I'd love to hear these guys explain to me the mysteries of the cosmos. It'll be especially interesting to listen to Jesus and Mohammed talk about how the Bible and the Koran are both true. I just have one request: since these perfect masters are all-knowing, please ask them to tell you the name of the girl I took to the prom my freshman year in high school. Leave another comment with her name and I'll be impressed.
[Update: I'd like to know the answer to the prom question. But there's a few people in the world, aside from me, who know her name. Here's a better test…I've folded a dollar bill up and put it in a compartment in my wallet. What is the serial number? The perfect masters must know, since they know everything.]