Obama recognizes limits of faith

This is a great speech by Barack Obama on the proper place of religion and faith in public policy. He should get the churchless vote with these sentiments. Obama certainly has mine.

I just wish he'd repeat it now, saying the same things he did in 2006, since he has a much bigger audience as the Democratic presidential candidate.

For the broadband impaired (I'm not aware of a transcript of this video), here's some of what Obama said in the five minutes. These aren't quotes, just a summary of main points.

--This is a nation not only of Christians, but also of Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, many faiths. It's also a nation of unbelievers.

--In the public arena, we need to focus on universal rather than religion-specific values. Values that everyone can understand and accept, no matter a person's variety of belief or unbelief.

--Arguments about public policy have to be based on reason, not faith. Religion doesn't allow for compromise, but in the public sphere compromise is essential.

--People are tired of seeing faith being used as a tool to attack.

I enjoyed the comments on the Pharyngula post containing the video. Steve liked it, but didn't want any compromising on faith.

Pretty good, up until the end, when he says, "they don't want faith to belittle, they don't want faith to divide."

Faith is inherently belittling and divisive. It belittles the intellect of those who subscribe to it -- "don't think, just believe." It divides, because those who subscribe to faith invariably see their subscription as a virtue, and thus, those who don't subscribe, as lacking that virtue.

Faith sucks completely and utterly and is without a single redeeming feature.

But to hope for a politician to say as much, and remain a viable politician, is to hope for too much, too soon.

So, good enough, and far better than what we've had recently.

For sure. Probably he's referring to Bush, but here's John McCain blathering on about the United States being established as a Christian nation.

I'm praying that he loses. Big time.

Comments

[Adam]

What scares me a little is how Obama's speech makes me realize how used I have become to the crazy christian rhetoric underlying national security policy decisions, among others. Obama's speech, though my rational mind tells me what he says should sound normal to most people, almost feels subversive given the current context. I am almost scared someone might do him harm for expressing this view. For those who think I am exaggerating my fear for no good reason, check out christian zionism. A small summary follows form wikipedia:

"Christian Zionism or Restorationism, is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. Some Christian Zionists also believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus... Christian Zionists commonly believe that to fulfill prophecy, a significant number of Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah, and that in the last days, such Messianic Jews will practice a thoroughly Hebraic form of Christianity."

If you don't know about the end of days, look it up. Scary Lord of the Rings type stuff.

The very same people who believe in the End Days also believe in keeping an actively expanding the air force in case we must go to war with up and coming superpowers China and company. This belief remains strong even in the face of flagrant ignorant mishaps, like the recent occurrence of a plane sheperding live nukes over America by accident. If you don't know about this, read about it, it will knock your socks off.

[david]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/06/obama-on-black.html

wait til the end of the speech. he claims jesus is lookin' out for us and all that talk.

[Deepak Kamat]

Beware of Barrack Hussein Obama. He is an apologist for Islam (Edward Said & Co).

It is fashionable to talk about multiculturalism. But to justify it in the name of Islamophobia is stretching things too far.

Obama will go out of the way to defend the Jehadis. I hope, wish and pray that the US Prez won't pussyfoot on jehadi terror like Obama. He should never be the US Prez. As an Indian, who has a first hand glimpse of Islamic ghettoes in India, I want a US Prez who will act tough on Jehadi Islam rather than pussy foot on multiculturalism.

[Type O]

I agree with Deepak. The jihadists, islamic fundamentalists, islamo-fascists or whatever you want to call them understand only one thing. Death... death to the infidels or die trying to kill them. What do you do with people like this?
Kill them before they kill you. Obama doesn't understand this and probably most readers of these lines. Can't we all just get along have a nice chat and work out our differences? Nope.

[Brian]

Deepak and Type O, instead of making stuff up and calling it Obama-truth, why don't you share evidence that Obama is an apologist for Islam and won't take the fight to the terrorists? Direct quotes from Obama, please, not rumor mill stuff.

Here's the true side of the story from
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/remarks_of_senator_obama_the_w_1.php

"It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world's most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.

The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

...I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America. This requires a broader set of capabilities, as outlined in the Army and Marine Corps's new counter-insurgency manual. I will ensure that our military becomes more stealth, agile, and lethal in its ability to capture or kill terrorists. We need to recruit, train, and equip our armed forces to better target terrorists, and to help foreign militaries to do the same. This must include a program to bolster our ability to speak different languages, understand different cultures, and coordinate complex missions with our civilian agencies."

Hmmmmm. Sure doesn't sound like a multicultural appeaser to me. Bring out your quotes, if you've got them.

[Rain]

People are underestimating obama's toughness and when they finally do see it, they will then complain about that too. He is aware of many cultures, has lived other places, understands more about them than most Americans but he supports and has programs that support Americans. He has said he'd send soldiers to go after bin Laden in Pakistan and got criticized for it. Now you hear Bush saying he's encouraging the British secret military to get him before he leaves office. Obama is often ahead of the game for what he says, gets criticized for it by those who are Bush supporters but ends up often being right and seeing what he said be what's done. Fear of something different is the way of many people. I hope not the majority as something different is what we need since what we have has engaged us in a senseless war that will be generations paying off, an economy that isn't balanced, and corruption in the highest places being praised. I could go on but in short. I hope he's elected and I hope those who protect him understand how much danger he is in from the radicals who see murder as valid in their own cause.

[Type O]

I am glad to hear that Obama has at least paid lip service to "taking out" terrorists,
but we can't bail out of Iraq now because of Iran and I think he knows it. If he gets elected troop drawdowns will be gradual as the job gets completed over a few more years. We don't hear about the numerous military operations in Pakistan and Afganistan. They are small-scale special ops missions as opportunities become available. The military is necessarily tight-lipped about much of this for obvious reasons.

[catherine]

The head of any democratic country is surely primarily a mouthpiece for a much larger group of advisers that sit in the cabinet. Obama's rousing speeches and charismatic debates are the front for his party, only valuable for their ability to enthuse people and draw them together. He is just the lead singer. Sure, he may have the final say but with very little room to move beyond the cabinet's advice, but there is not that much possibility for radical change in America primarily due to the fact that so much has been handed over to large private enterprises. External forces such as climate change, rising fuel prices, pressure from other governments etc may be the only way to create this kind of change.

The best survival for one country may not be the best survival for another. Therefore, America's wars both physical and economic can be seen in other countries and with these come it's atrocities. These have not really been felt by the American people ( other than family of injured soldiers), because often, a country perceived as successful will have a government that shields it's people as much as possible while when necessary for it's survival, it may cause great harm to another group of people. Obama will be hamstrung to a large extent.

[Type O]

Obama wants my money. I already have it invested and structured both domestically and internationally in ways that limit it's exposure to the death tax, but even more will go out of the country or into corporate form and trusts if he gets in office, because he is unlikely to veto confiscatory taxation bills. This is a big hassle and inconvenient for me, but he's not getting money I already paid taxes on. Confiscatory redistribution of the wealth theories don't work. I am willing to pay a fair tax on my income, but Obama and redistribution advocates are not getting their gubby hands on it a second time to fund questionable semi-socialist policies. I want the money I earned to go to whom I wish. I give my fair share to organizations that benefit the unfortunate, but the government notoriously doles it out inefficiently to fakers, con artists and leaches on the system. I do not wish to fund another beaurocratic morass. Many folks with sizable estates will take similar defensive measures and ironically reduce the tax base from which Obama and his supporters hope to fund their pie in the sky social programs.