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April 13, 2008

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Sid,

I agree with Bob. Take it easy and enjoy your unique life. Its alright and good for you to live your bodily existence. You shoud not feel that you need to escape it. Spirituity is all aaout the JOURNEY, not the destination. Your human life is a learning experience, not something to run away from. It is an opportunity. You are young and you have an immeasurable amount of living and learning to do before you reach my age. Don't miss the opportunity. Its OK to meditate, but don't meditate your life away. There are other important lessons in life besides just meditation. Embrace the whole of the pagaent of life. For that, I wish you good luck. As Bob said, and I reiterate, you will "discover a magical world right in front of your nose."

You said that you "haven't got a chance to try Sant Mat out yet". Thats alright. If you want to check it out, no problem. Just remember to va'ue only your own experience and insight, not what others tell you about theirs. Question everything. Don't accept something just because some guru said so. Find and discover your own truth, in your own way, in your own time., by your own methods. Then it will be your own, it will belong to YOU.

"I myself desire to know "what is out there." Yes it is scary, for "out there" means the unknown."

-- What is now the unknown, someday may become the known. But it is not "out there". It is always right in front of us, right where we stand.

"I want to know what's out there, and Sant Mat claims to be a way of life that can lead you to be able to find out."

-- Sant mat msy CLAIM to accomplish that, but that is not necessariy how it turns out.... which is that there is little or no evidence to support those claims. If the claims do not prove to be true after sometime, then don't remain stuck with it. You seem to want to ignore the advice of those who have a lifetime of experience, so go ahead and check it out for yourself. But don't believe it just because Sant mat makes these claims.

"All you have to do is give up unhealthy things ... Being a good person means loving everyone. So basically, the way of life called Sant Mat is that, we shall love all..."

-- Those are nice ideas, but I have found very few satsangis who "love all", or who even love other fellow satsangis.

"Whatever comes out of the Sant Mat meditational practice, comes. It doesn't matter what comes, for Sant Mat teaches not to expect anything, just do it."

-- That sounds nice too, but saying don't expect anything is a recipe for nothing. It is a type of cop-out. It's what keeps people endessly doing things that never ever deliver. That's a real bad idea. If it works, fine. If it doesn't, then its time to move on.

"What do you lose from meditating everyday in the morning?"

-- If it does not achieve anything over a period of 20 years, then the person has wasted 20 years of daily meditating, That's almost 20,000 hours (18,250 hours), which adds up to a little over TWO ENTIRE YEARS of one's precious time wasted for nothing. If you wish to achieve the common benefits of meditation, then one need NOT practice the particuar shabda yoga/ simran-bhadjan-dhyan type of mediation, to achieve those common benefits. To spend that much time achieving virtually nothing is incredibly foolish and unintelligent.

"It seems that you gain a calm good mind."

-- Thats nice... but thats NOT what Sant mat claims is the goal.

"other Satsangis seem to not follow the Sant Mat teachings correctly, that is just them. But some do do them correctly ... and maybe do get what they want"

-- The problem with that idea is that there is no evidence that anything is achieved, that the goal that sant mat claims, is actually achieved.

"basically, Sant Mat is no different from just trying to be a selfless person who cares for others as well as there self. Thats it."

-- NO. Thats not it at all. That is NOT waht sant mat teaches is the the teaching, or the goal of the teaching and the practice. You clearly have an incorrect and mistaken idea and undertanding about the sant mat teaching. The sant mat teaching is all about shabda yoga, and not at all about merely "trying to be a selfless person".

"I really don't know how you attained this wisdom. ... I am a unknowing kid like you were when you started this path."

-- You are a bit mistaken. I was not at all an "unkowing kid" when I "started". I was over 30 years old and I had aready been doing serious spiritual sadhana and meditation for about 15 years, and I had lived in India as a Yogi for almost 12 years. I already had a very great deal of extraordinary experience and knowedge before ever coming to RS.

"I just have a desire to see ... I am new to this world, I need to learn hard lessons if I have to. We all do. We all learn hard lessons even when our elders tell us not to."

-- I definitely understand that. Just try to remember what I have said.

"In my opinion, tAo, you are my elder brother. I shall take you seriously, why shouldn't I. But I also want to learn hard lessons, no matter how hard it may be. I don't want to be afraid of hard lessons, thats just me."

-- Whatever you do, just try to remember that your own unique life is really the path, and the only answer... is always... right where you stand.

Thank you for your advice tAo. I don't feel safe posting here anymore, so I shall refrain from any more comments. Thanks to all.

Radhasoami is a distructive sect. Thier funds come through money laundering. The so called Guru or Babaji was untill recent years a normal accountant working in Malaga Spain for a big crook. If you observe the people who manage and run this organisation you will realise that they are all old crook with lots of black money,all this spiritual teaching etc etc is a mask to hide the real buisness

Hallelujah!!!

Praise the Testimonium Veritas !

Yo tellin like it is Brother Prakash!

Finally we have someone (besides myself) who actually understands what's really up (or down) with the crooked RSSB cult.

Meanwhile...back at the assram, all the naive little Satsangi pimps and whores go scurrying off down to the Dera to bow down and kiss the big daddy Gangsta Gurus's fat dirty ass, and listen to some more canned pseudo-mystical bullshit.

For these vast crowds of spineless simple-minded little SUCKERS, RS is nothing more than their candy-coated childish and antiquated RELIGION. Just like the crazy Catholics and their pretentious Poope.

Alas!... the world that most of these type of humans dwell in, is truly a realm of lost souls who wallow in utter stupidity and foolishness.


Hi Tao ,
Did you know that the so called agent of God Babaji alias Gurender alias gogi in short was not loyal to his own religion (the sikhism) he had short hair (hair cut)which is prohibited in sikhism and lived like a normal western person.
At that period when he worked as a acountant for a big time crook in malaga he had to make a living so all was valid. When his uncle Charansingh who was a shrewd lawyer and who had served the big time crooks left this world he nominated gogi as his sucesor he knew well that gogi as a acountant understood the numbers and was introduced to the western world and most important thing was gogi was familiar to the big time crooks(as the saying birds of feather flock together )anyways i know quite a bit of the other side of the projected image of radhasoami and am open to any questions.
in hongkong we have a nice rhyme its in hindi
radhasoami bada harami = radhasoami big crook
chote bade sakth harami = small big hardcore crooks
bole dudh beche pani = say milk and sell water
radhasoami bada harami = radhasoami big crook

prakash shadadpuri has said:
Radhasoami is a distructive sect. Thier funds come through money laundering. The so called Guru or Babaji was untill recent years a normal accountant working in Malaga Spain for a big crook. If you observe the people who manage and run this organisation you will realise that they are all old crook with lots of black money,all this spiritual teaching etc etc is a mask to hide the real buisness.

For god's sake you cannot even spell better than A 5TH GRADER WHO IS GONNA BELIEVE YOU???????????????

WHAT THE HELL? Where is this coming from? Gimme some proof buddy, or else people will leave the sect only based off of your opinions, and that wouldn't be good. Nobody on this blog should have blind faith in other peoples words.

You sound very, very brainwashed my friend. You claim to call the Guru a crook, where do you get the nerve?

Just lemme know, where do you get the nerve? How are you so positive? Don't sicken me with insults, I want to know why you have these beliefs that Radhasoami is destructive, how are you so positive? Sick shit, sick shit, if you cannot back it up with Pictures Videos and hardcore Evidence. You are working for the NEGATIVE POWER IMO, THIS IS ALL IN MY OPINION.

Ya know there are some Sant Mat believers on this blog why should you discourage them based on the Guru being a crook? Did you see him rob ne one? How do you know Satan isn't tricking you? You don't know ne thing.

I don't know ne thing. Don't help others. You don't know how to. You don't know ne thing. You are a mere nothing. IMO, this is all true, for where is the hard evidence? Where is it my friend?

How many people you have discouraged, true seekers, not blind shit believers, they are true seekers they don't want this negetive anti sant mat BULLCRAP in their faces!

Sid,
Have i discouraged the true seekers???? WOW
the only naive kid here is you so grow up baby open your eyes and dont let anyone brainwash ya. regarding my typos well i am not a westerner and i maybe did not have the luck or posiblility to go school but am sure many have understood me. regarding your fake babaji does he teach you to be humble? ohh no as i said earlier he also mocks and humilates when he is fowarded a question which he cant answer.
regarding proof hmmm donno how old are ya but ask anyone who was a adult in the early and mid 70ties and had something to do with the system and you will get the answers
ask them if the govt of india in that period had aproved a law called ceiling act which gave the state power to confisticate land which was not in use
once you confirm that i will tell you more
coz dont want to saturate your primitive brain so lets go issue by issue

@ Sapient,

Yes, I went to Gurinder satsang in Bangalore despite knowing the facts. I have many of my "satsangi friends" there. Just wanted to get an update on them atleast. Besides, I was also stuck in that cult so I realise the problems the satsangis face.

Sid,

I wouldn't take the comments here too seriously, personal knowledge is always the best knowledge to have.

Why are these 'elders' so defensive and aggresive, probably because your belief scares them. The path is individual as others here have said, the opinions are a reflection of their inner state. Imagine that perception is like looking at a image through a pool of water (the mind) if the water is not still it distorts the image.

Also some people simply write stuff to provoke a response. Keep researching, don't be put off by people you thought had the answers now admitting they were in denial, like Brian and company. Its a good thing they are being honest. Its always good to be honest with yourself. Perhaps they wouldn't even be here if they had been honest to start with. Arrival in theory is always quicker than the actual arrival.

I am sure they are trying to be helpful, providing their personal experiences about what they've found on this path. It might tell you more about them, than the path they tried to follow.

Its good to see where actions have taken people. I am sure you can see how choices have affected the outcome.

To attack people and call so and so a fraud is slander, who are we to judge. You can spend years listening to the stories, but you know we can see the truth with our own eyes, thankfully you don't need to rely on some distorted second hand account.

This is a distinct bitterness in the words of some of the people here. I think they should listen to their own advice they are preaching, and relax, the path, i agree is within oneself, so why are are they so outwardly focused?

Like the story of the four blind men and the elephant, each will have their own opinion. Sometimes hurclean efforts with the mind are required to show how very little progress can be made with it. Again this is a lesson in itself, they are getting first hand experience of it.

I am not sitting on my high horse and passing judegment, far from it, I say I am stuck in the same pit of mud as the rest, but I say instead of cursing and swearing, would it not be more productive to get up and climb out of this mess? From the posts some are very happy in the mud, let them be, there will hardly be encouragement from within this pit of mud.

Enquiry is good, but I don't think your going to find a open minded approach here. You come accross as an intelligent and a very good communicator. Hope you find whats right for you.

Tom

Thomas,

See the host's comments to Sid:

Posted by: Brian | April 24, 2008 at 05:08 PM

Much of the commentary and "aggressive" reaction to Sid was due to his stubborn adherence to dogma and not intelligent, open discussion. To a true-believer such as yourself, this would appear as attacks because it undermines the faith you hold so dear.

Your perception is that those who leave the path are stuck in a pit of mud, while those who perceive the path from a different view see those involved with it as stuck in a pit of mud. And around and around it goes.

This blog is about rational open discussion. If someone can only spout unsupportable, unprovable dogma over and over again to the point where it becomes a religious sermon then, yes, they will be criticised and if it goes to far, they get banned.

Dear "tucson,"

Who has ever actually been banned?

I've seen some told/ordered to leave by a few others (never by Brian) - and I've seen some choose to depart on their own. But I've never seen anyone actually banned.

Could you please cite a point in the blog history to demonstrate your assertion?

Robert Paul Howard

Robert,

I'm guessing that Tucson was referring to comments that are 'Preaching or Promoting' a particular religion or spiritual dogma, over and over, on this blog. It is simply the 'deleting' of such comments. This is a simple hit of the 'delete' button. I have seen this done before, and agree with the decision.

Dear "tucson,"

I apologize - if such might be thought appropriate. I see - since posting my previous note - that Brian did actually "ban" Sid by his 4/24/08 note @ 5:08 P.M.

I don't recall anything like this ever happening on this blog before. Again: can you cite some previous instance?

Robert Paul Howard

Dear Roger,

Thank you for your hypothesis. But if some missives are "deleted," how would we readers know of this action? How is it that you "have seen this done before"? How would you have been "aware" of it? What evidence can you cite to demonstrate your assertion?

Robert Paul Howard

Robert Paul Howard,

I am not aware of this happening before on this blog, but I would not be surprised if it has. Sid's final comments remain, I believe. It is just that he is blocked from further comments.

Back in the 90's I was blocked from several vegetarian message boards. At the time, I was undergoing a dietary transition and was immersed in research on the subject. I have no issues with informed vegetarianism. However, as in religion, there are many unfounded beliefs in the vegetarian community promulgated on these boards. It was not appreciated that I pointed this out.

I think for many followers of RSSB, vegetarianism becomes the core of the path for them. This is because the master is inaccessible in India, meditation is non-productive, and Sach Khand is who knows where. So, the diet is the only tangible aspect of that path and becomes a religion in itself.

Robert,

Good question, regarding an example of deleting a comment. I remember, over a year ago, Brian, noted a comment that was promoting a particular religion. Brian wrote a comment, stating that this blog was not the place for promoting a particular religion. So, I think I remember, Brian, deleting that comment. I reserve the right to be wrong. However, this blog, belongs to Brian, he can do whatever he so desires.
I am not aware of anyone being banned from this blog. Hopefully, this clarifies something that is not a big deal for me.

Robert, I did indeed block Sid's IP address from posting additional comments. And I deleted one of his comments that made it through before the ban went into effect.

I thought about this for several days before doing it. I'm opposed to censoring ideas; but I'm not opposed to censoring spam, which I've done fairly often on my blogs.

Meaning, people leave comments with commercial messages unrelated to the content of the post. They're not interested in communicating; they're interesting in selling.

And over time that's how I came to view Sid's messages. As selling dogma. At first he seemed to be interested in a dialogue. But then, he didn't.

Yesterday I came in from the Maui beach and found six more consecutive comments from Sid. None were part of a discussion. They all promulgated his belief in the rightness of Sant Mat philosophy.

Fine. But this blog isn't the place to preach religious dogma. Good god, it's called the Church of the Churchless. Go to your own church if you want to preach to the choir. I'm not interested in being converted, or re-converted.

When Jehovah's Witnesses come to the door I politely listen, briefly, to what they have to say. Then I shut the door. The same happened with Sid. I/we listened to him (for more than briefly). Then I shut the door.

Sid, if you're still reading this blog, a P.S to the above.

Exercising my divine powers as Lord of This Blog, I shall de-ban your IP address later today -- after more than 24 hours has passed from the banning.

Earlier, I asked you to do more listening and less talking, because you weren't responding to other ideas, just preaching your own.

I, along with other people, want you to be free to engage in comment conversations here. But they need to be dialogues, not speeches.

You never responded to my comments to you about it not being possible to prove something doesn't exist. You objected to people saying "God doesn't exist." You wanted them to prove this is true.

OK, so prove that I'm not the Supreme Being. (I believe I am, though my wife has different ideas, sadly).

Prove that my banning your comments, then reinstating you by my grace later today, isn't a manifestation of the Divine Will. Prove that though I may outwardly appear to be an imperfect humble blogger, husband, father, and what not, inwardly I am the True God and you should worship me (more than you do now, just as my wife should).

For it is my Will that my divinity be kept secret from all but the faithful. And I determine who is to be considered "faithful." So far, no one. But if someone sends me enough money, I might reconsider -- though the revelation of my Godness will have to wait until after my one true disciple dies.

When you answer this question -- how you can prove that I'm not the God I say I am -- then we can have a more fruitful discussion about how it's possible to prove that God doesn't exist.

Hi Robert,
well said So, the diet is the only tangible aspect of that path and becomes a religion in itself. this is exactly the weakness of todays society either for not having means or simple laziness and it here where these so called masters and thier secretaries manipulate the masses. Let the followers do wot they want, give them cheap or free food and the masses are so vulnerable and on top if the secretaries claim that the master will guide them thru a shortcut straight to Gods lap no matter wot sin or harm they have caused wot else does the mass want?
Trust me I know how radhasoami became so popular coz i have witnessed it. The institution moves milliones of dollars black money to tax free havens anually.Every movement of gogi moves hard money. All this spirituality etc etc is a mask. I am convinced of this and can prove it the prob is i am alone i cant come up front coz i know the criminal power of the RSSB i know how many corrupt polititions and officers work for the organistation ITS big big time money.

To Tom:

I'd like to tell you a few things which you apparently do NOT understand. I am not against your religious beliefs, because that's your business, but I am opposed to, and critical of people like you who clearly don't know what they are talking about. So in my ususal style, I'll take each of your comments that I find fault with, one at a time:

"Sid, I wouldn't take the comments here too seriously, personal knowledge is always the best knowledge to have."

-- Yes "personal knowledge" is best, but you seem to imply that the comments of others here do NOT refelect personal knowledge, but that Sid's does. You must not have been reading very well, because that notion is completely backwards. It is Sid who is the one who has little or no "personal knowledge" or experience, and not "Brian and company" - meaning the rest of us. To imply that people who have practiced sant mat for 3o years have NO "personal experience" and Sid does, indicates that you have not been paying attention and so you don't know what you are talking about.

"Why are these 'elders' so defensive and aggresive, probably because your belief scares them."

-- That's even more absurd. Why would people who have practiced sant mat for 30 years be afraid of the kind of lame dogmatic dogmatic beliefs preached by a neophte like Sid? Your comment is bereft of any reason or logic... which is also quite typical of those like Sid who mindlessly defend such dogma.

"others here ... the opinions are a reflection of their inner state."

-- Yes, that's true... A lack of lame adherence to unsubstantiated dogma and blind faith is indeed a refection of an rational, open, and liberated mind.

"perception is like looking at a image through a pool of water (the mind) if the water is not still it distorts the image."

-- Yes, if a mind such as Sid's is full of all sorts of thoughts, ideas, and acquired beliefs and dogma... than it filters and distorts and obscures reality, and so does not see or comprehend with clarity.

"Also some people simply write stuff to provoke a response."

-- Which is EXACTLY what this fellow Sid has been doing for quite a while. That was his prime agenda here from the get-go. So again, you've deliberately turned it all round backwards. Which now makes me wonder what YOUR agenda is here?

"don't be put off by people you thought had the answers now admitting they were in denial, like Brian and company."

-- Now you really don't know what the hell you are talking about. "Brian and company" have never been "admitting they were in denial" about anything. Either show exactly what you are referring to, or retract your assertion. Otherwise, you will take you place alongside Sid as a rubbish touting fool. So let's see it Tom, where is this "denial" that you are referring to?

"Its a good thing they are being honest. Perhaps they wouldn't even be here if they had been honest to start with."

-- And just WHAT exactly do you mean by that? Just WHO was dishonest, about WHAT, and WHEN?

"Arrival in theory is always quicker than the actual arrival."

-- Then put your money where your mouth is Tom. Show us where YOU have 'actually arrived' instead of mere "theory" and dogma. Otherwise, you are no more credible than any of the other dogamtic RS sychophants.

"they are ... providing their personal experiences about what they've found on this path. It might tell you more about them, than the path they tried to follow."

-- On the contrary, it tells far far MORE about the path, than about those who practiced the path.

"Its good to see where actions have taken people ... how choices have affected the outcome."

-- Please do explain more specifically what you mean by that.

"To ... call so and so a fraud is slander, who are we to judge."

-- Who are we? We are those who have reason and logic and perception and insight and experience and a mind of our own.... thats who. And to give a personal opinion and judge a PUBLIC figure who both directly and indirectly claims to be a saint, a savior, a sat-guru, and god in human form, but who shows no evidence of that whatsoever, is certainly not "slander". And we CAN judge because we have a mind and a right to judge anyone we choose.

"you know we can see the truth with our own eyes."

-- Then please DO... "see the truth with our (your) own eyes". Let's please hear about it. If you have indeed SEEN "the truth", then you will certainly be able tell us all about it. But so far, I don't see or hear you telling anything. Nevertheless, NOW is your chance. Go for it. Several others of us have, so why can't you?

"is a distinct bitterness in the words of some of the people here."

-- Wrong. The only "bitterness" is in those like Sid who cannot or will not accept that RS is NOT the path for everyone, and who don't like that there are critics of RS, and critics of dogma preaching fools like Sid.

"I think they should listen to their own advice they are preaching, and relax"

-- No one here is "preaching" anything except for this fellow SID. If you had half a brain and any perception at all, you would already know that. And THAT is the crux of the entire matter.

"the path ... is within oneself, so why are are they so outwardly focused?"

-- Again, clearly you are confused and don't know what you are talking about. As a matter of fact, very few if any here are "outwardly focused". And most here have a great deal of INTROSPECTIVE insight. So again, you ought to get your facts correct before you go making such erroneous and bogus assertions.

"hurclean efforts with the mind are required to show how very little progress can be made with it. ... this is a lesson ... they are getting first hand experience of it."

-- The funny thing is... is that it is actually people like YOU and like Sid who are in fact the PRIME EXAMPLES of how foolish people such as yourselves can be so caught within the illusions and presumptions and duality of the mind.

"I am not sitting on my high horse and passing judegment"

-- But you certainly ARE. And I think others would no doubt agree with me on that as well.

"I say I am stuck in the same pit of mud as the rest"

-- No... you mean YOU are stuck in a "pit of mud", as you have admitted.... but you have no way to know or determine whether others are also.

"I say ... would it not be more productive to get up and climb out of this mess?"

-- Climb out of your own "mess". Others are not necessariy in any "mess".

"some are very happy in the mud, let them be, there will hardly be encouragement from within this pit of mud."

-- You say you're not "passing any judgement" are you? You did say: "I am not sitting on my high horse and passing judegment". But then you say that this Blog and others here are "within this pit of mud". That's pretty darn contradictory and hypocritical of you Tom. But then your behavior is quite typical of RS satsangis, RS sycophants, and RS defenders in general.

"I don't think your going to find a open minded approach here."

-- Boy, thats a laugh if there ever was one! In case you haven't noticed little Tommy boy, the guy that is closed minded is SID, not the rest of us. This is a very open-minded forum. But repeated posting of RS dogma is with no desire to have a reasonable discussion, is far and away from being an "open minded approach". So you are obviously just another version of Sid, only with a little more restraint.

Let's see how "open minded" YOU are Tom. Let's see what you have to discuss in an open minded fashion without cronic resorting to sant mat religious dogma and other authoritarian rhetoric.

I welcome you to please show us how open minded YOU are, before you go accusing this forum of being the opposite. You have al the opportunity in the world to engage in open minded discussion here. But you'll have to keep it "open minded" which means not just a bunch of tired old dogma that we already know all about, like Sid has been posting.

So go for it Tom. Open-mindedness IS certainly quite welcome and appreciated here.

@ prakash shadadpuri,

If you have the right info about Sant Mat and Gogi's shady deals, then please send it to my email -- [email protected]

I have the requisite contacts in India and something can be done if the need be. Besides, you need not worry about dangers to you and your identity.

Deepak
its obvious prakash is not my name its a mask so no worries 1) in the mid seventies in india there govt passed a law confiscating land which was not in use. a person could not just acumulate land without giving use to it.2) charansingh was a lawyer 3) the big time indian sindhi crook for whom gogi worked as a accountant in spain had bought plenty land b4 the ceiling act in india 4) charansingh had this group of radhasoami which had some good important govt employed followers and he needed to promote it internationally 5) this crook had problems with his investments in india 6) in spain at that period franco had just expired and the military police was still in power 7)the crook had good contacts with the military police 8)at that period lots of sindhis transfered to spain from tanger which was taken over by morroco and they had problems in getting documents 9) the crook comes to a deal with charansingh who clears the problem in india and in spain the crook tru his contacts gets documents done for those who attend the RS gatherings.10) charansingh does not trust the crook 100% hence sends his nephew alias gogi as accountant.
Now deepak you are a indian i have given you 10 points and as you say u have contacts to get the rite information so please verify these points 1st then i proceed to give ya more info.

Dear Brian,

When you state: "I'm not opposed to censoring spam, which I've done fairly often on my blogs," you indicate a practice which has been invisible to me. I thank you for so doing, however, since such thereby saves me the bother of having to sort through it.

Your "banning" (for twenty-four hours) of Sid, however, is the first that I have ever seen you - or, at least, recall you - put such a determination into effect. (I do recall that you let the Calvinist predestinarian jabber until he decided to leave of his own choice, some time ago.) Even now you offer Sid the opportunity to return - if he will refrain from his "preaching," listen more/better, and actually discuss (rather than proclaim).

You are quite generous. You even have let those who have stated that they would leave your blog for good thereafter violate their word by coming back again (and again, and again, and again...). It's nice that you are more open-minded and forgiving than those fanatics at the vegetarianism sites referred to above. Some folks really do cling to their dogmatic (pre)suppositions.

Like you: "I'm not interested in being converted" by any dogmatic thugs either. I hope Sid (and others) will yet learn better.

Robert Paul Howard


RPH stated to Brian: "It's nice that you are more open-minded and forgiving than those fanatics at the vegetarianism sites referred to above."

--It is ironic that I was once blocked from the vegetarian websites for being objective and scientific rather than preachy and dogmatic.

This is a little off topic, but I am going to do some shameless self-promotion of my book.

After extensive research I decided to write a book on health, a sort of condensed compilation of what I found. Here are the entire contents in all their un-copywrited brilliance. This material may be copied and distributed freely without my express permission. It is called "The Easy Way to Maximise your Health and Longevity.":

*Stay physically active and don't eat too much, especially trans-fats, sugar and refined carbohydrates.*

Brian,
I think you did the right thing by letting sid back in. I say this taking into the account that he´s only eighteen years old.

To sid,
the RS cosmology you were posting is something basically everyone on this site already knows, and has personally lived and experimented with. That´s why you got the reaction you got.

Both Sid and Tom came here for only one reason and agenda, and that reason and agenda did not havge anything to do with having an open rational discussion.

And thankfully, since no more of that kind of dogmatic preaching will be allowed here, I doubt they will return. Because they are simply not interested in open discussion, and especially not open discussion of RS.

Sid's objective and agenda here, from the very get-go, was to preach RS theology. Since he will not be allowed to do that anymore, he has nothing else to offer.

I am glad that Brian banned him, albeit very temporarily, and even though he's been given another chance, I don't think someone who repeated ignores warnings should be given more opportunities. We'll see. I rather doubt that he comes back. People like him have nothing else to offer, and they are not interested in the insights and experience of others. They only want to preach and tell you that if you do not follow their Sant Guru (or their Jesus, or Krishna, or Mohammed, etc) then you are GOING TO HELL. That kind of mentality has no place here. Period.

If Sid takes the opportunity that Brian has graciously given him and he comes back and behaves himself, then I say great. But if he (or Tom) doesn't come back, then I'll say good riddance. As always, the choice is his.


I would like to hear Tom's response to tAo's articulate commentary above, April 25, 2008 at 04:06 PM , however, I am afraid he has run off with his tail between his legs as so many do when effectively challenged.

Hi its surprizing that no coments in so many days or is that the brainwashed Radhasoami people cant digest the factsand reality. do you know thier answer? as per their baba says if others cirtisise you they are taking your karmas, but if u are in his sect you can critise and cause harm coz he is the saviour and you are with him

Prakashshadapuri,

Why do you think these rumors of corruption in RSSB do not spread among the satsangi community and result in an investigation?

tucson
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm for a start i have started no rumours but its in the free will of persons who read to clasify it as they wish
and ofcourse i would be the 1st one to apreciate if anyone invetigates wot i said
coz it not me who needs to be convinced and if the investigators can convince themselves i would give them some more feed bak :)

strange no activity in so many days :((

As you can't say the taste of any eatable dish without eating it.Same in case of Sant Mat you can't say without doing it as Radha Soami is the way of Practical not of verbal disscussions.If you can do according to the Master's Directions you can explore the ......which is not explainable and beyod the intelect, there is no comparision of that experiece(which can only be experienced with help of Living Master) in this world.

To: Arun Kumar Sharma

Arun says: "in case of Sant Mat you can't say without doing it as Radha Soami is the way of Practical not of verbal disscussions."

-- And what makes you assume that people here have NOT been "doing" Sant mat? If you had read anything here, you would have seen and known that many have been "doing" Sant mat for decades. Jumping to prematre false conclusions as you have done, is not very smart.

"If you can do according to the Master's Directions"

-- Some people do NOT care to follow your so-called "Masters", or their directions.

"there is no comparision of that experiece(which can only be experienced with help of Living Master)"

-- Your statement is blatant guru-cult-fundamentalism bullshit (ie: "can only be experienced with help of Living Master).

You ought to pay attention to the content of the site a little more befor you go making such lame comments.

please bear with me i am not very good at expressing myself but i would very much like to share what i experience and understand as a personal opinion if anyone is interested that is.here goes-i feel a human being has a very so called spiritual side something like the front of a looking-glass mirror-that is there is a front and a back-a material dimension which is the back of the mirror and a spiritual front -and when that faces (the brain is designed to cause you to experience mental thoughts and emotional feelings also) a source of light-in the spiritual case very subtle immaterial but spiritual light -a human mind is more superior in design to other brain-mind designs-exclusively so when it experiences a very high quality of positive thoughts and feelings (negative means i guess ones position is such that the looking-mirror is not facing that spiritual light but has ones back to that-and faces darkness instead )-and that a positive mental positive emotional positive spiritual experience is i feel even more important to experience than just the biological chemical -etc-material interpretation alone which is not what it is entirely and actually all about-so to begin with for example positive(not negative ) experiences-like having known the spiritual warmth of a human mothers love -those who have experienced that that high quality-and similarly personally for me that positivity of my spiritual guru-is that arriving -or let me put it in better words if ican attempt to -qualifying -achieving that level- reflecting realizing-that real thing-that is the point stilling point from when the mind is not agitated-rather relaxed to be able to know that meditation can now start because that human comfort zone has you relaxed -a human being is designed to know not just the material but also the purely spiritual as well -the angels are of an only spiritual design(i think you are laughing) -matter space time-eternity talk about that later i will discuss with my guru what more i should be talking about if at all anymore-i am also very tired typing i am very slow .signing off now bye-bye . pia

All I have to say is that I read Brian's writings as I have always found his thinking to be well thought out. I have read his books and his thinking inspired me.

Well my opinion of this blog has changed. It has become a pathetic playground for people to bash other peoples beliefs.

Feel free to assert your beliefs but I really feel it unnecessary to attack RSSB or any other organisation. Surely there are points of spirituality you could rather discuss.

You are all sounding like a bunch of jaded old men who have forgotten the wonder of life.

That too is my humble opinion......

I am saddened and disappointed.

Doubt I'll bother coming back either....

Paul, you are so utterly wrong, I had to put my morning coffee down and correct you before taking another sip. I resonate much more with the wonder of life now that I've forsaken religious fantasies.

Much more. Hugely more. Wonderfully more.

You mistake bloggish conversation about the nature of spirituality, reality, and life with the Real Thing: direct experience. Words aren't reality. You have no idea of what I'm experiencing at the moment, just as I have no idea of what you are.

Yet I am pretty sure that our sense of being conscious, alive, and aware (probably using three words for the same thing) is very similar, if not exactly the same.

That is the wonder -- THAT. The mystery of consciousness, that we are alive, right here and right now, experiencing all there is to experience. Not imagining some future state of salvation, enlightenment, or god-realization. Not entangled in dogmatic theological concepts.

Being. Here and now. Experiencing. Aware. Enthralled.

Yes, some commenters here, along with me, can get pretty intense and direct when we criticize religiosity -- including that practiced by Radha Soami Satsang Beas.

But the motive is to express and share an alternative to the spiritual deadness that each of us felt to one degree or another when we were true believers in some religious ideas.

Ideas aren't reality. Or rather, they only are part of reality. Beyond ideas is the mystery of life itself, of existence itself.

And, hey, we aren't all "jaded old men." There are young and old women here also. Who like the men, aren't jaded. Rather, filled with life and energy. Because there's nothing more exciting than living with no boundaries, having broken out of fenced-in religion.

Hi Friends I think that we should look within ourselves before passing a comment on or judging others - as far as the Master is concerned we will know HIM and HIS GRANDEUR only when we are are able to collect our attention at the Focus and experience the Divine WORD
Loves and good luck

Although I have been angry at the master, my deepest conflict is not with him, its with the satsangis who I feel fail the teachings in their everyday interactions with others- in their defense I also fail to reach my own standard for love consciousness- however, your ( the blog writer's) points against sant mat and the path lack depth - I fail to see how you could have been a satsangi for 30 years and misspelled shabd- also, the perception that baba ji is changing the teachings is not so much backed by even one example save that he says heaven god and savior are ' fictions' - since u misquote Jesus as stating that none can get to the father but through me as something that ' god' said...then there could easily be a change of a word or something paraphrased or taken out of context to prove that he said something which requires contemplation- perhaps he was referring to that which is Maya, or the illusion run by kal- this could be misconstrued by someone who has never read sant mat literature- I'm a seeker on this path for 15 years- and although like I said, I have still more to consider before I decide about what I will choose regarding my spiritual path - your posts seem elementary and without much reflection- just ego based anger and resentment having been asked to step down from holding satsang- the path of love should be our goal no matter which teacher we put our faith in. Radha soami

chela-jyoti, where did I misspell "shabd"? I don't even see where I used that word in that post.

Also, what do you disagree with, specifically, in my posts about Sant Mat? How is my understanding of RSSB "elementary"?

I was a satsang speaker for several decades. I wrote several books that RSSB either published directly, or bought for distribution. I was frequently invited to give talks on the Sant Mat teachings at regional satsang meetings, and once at a national meeting.

What makes you think I have any resentment or anger toward somebody? I'm a happy positive person. You don't know me, and you obviously haven't read much of my blog.

I look forward to your answers. It's easy to write a glib superficial comment as you did above. Now let's see if you can engage in an open honest discussion about what you think I don't understand about Sant Mat/RSSB.

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