When the old sermon doesn’t soar anymore

What seems to be the final newsletter that I'll be getting from my old "church," Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), came in the mail yesterday.

RSSB no longer is going to mail the newsletters. You'll have to go to meetings (satsangs) to get the information – some of which is about upcoming meetings, so go figure.

I'll miss getting this publication, which comes from the Western Regional Office headed up by Vince Savarese. I read it mostly to gauge my reaction to reading it.

Like lots of other people who have become more churchless over the years, I used to find the RSSB literature inspiring. It made my psyche soar. Now, it doesn't. The sermons haven't changed. My attitude toward them has.

I'm not claiming that now I know the truth about God, the cosmos, life, and the hereafter. I just look upon those who do make just a claim with considerably more open-minded skepticism.

In Christopher Hitchens' new book, "The Portable Atheist: Essential Readings for the Nonbeliever," he says in the introduction:

I have met some highly intelligent believers, but history has no record of any human being who was remotely qualified to say that he knew or understood the mind of god. Yet this is precisely the qualification which the godly must claim – so modestly and so humbly – to possess.

It is time to withdraw our "respect" from such fantastic claims, all of them aimed at the exertion of power over other humans in the real and material world.

In the Fall 2007 RSSB newsletter, Vince quotes from a book by Sawan Singh, "Philosophy of the Masters, Vol. III." Sawan Singh supposedly knew the "mind of God." Even more, he is considered by RSSB devotees to be God, as are all satgurus (true gurus).

Gurus describe the real austerities through which the cycle of birth and death is ended and the soul reaches the door of the Master. The greatest of the austerities is the Master's service, through which the Lord dwells in the heart.

…He who withdraws his mind and senses from the pleasures of the senses and puts them in the service of the Master is a real ascetic.

Even when I was a RSSB true believer, all this talk about reaching the door (or feet) of the Master struck me as strange. What about God? Isn't the supreme being our goal, not a human being? It's similar to how Jesus dominates Christianity, while God fades into the background.

Further, given my scientific approach toward spirituality I'd get frustrated with the circular reasoning found in the RSSB literature. In the newsletter Vince quotes from another RSSB book, "Call of the Great Master."

Someone has asked the guru, Sawan Singh, how one can recognize a perfect Master and know that the Path he teaches is the true one. Here's the guru's answer:

There are one hundred and one kinds of Gurus in the world, and a seeker certainly finds it difficult to choose the right one from amongst them. Saints have mentioned in their writings signs and marks by which one can recognize a perfect Master and the true "Word" with which He baptizes.

Hmmmm. So you're supposed to read the writings of a perfect Master to learn what the signs are of a perfect Master. Not surprisingly, the perfect Master who wrote those writings describes someone exactly like himself.

In the same fashion, whenever I read a brochure from, say, Toyota, I learn that the best cars in the world are made by – no big surprise – Toyota. Now, this may indeed be the case. But there has to be an independent source of truth for claims like that, whether they be for the best guru or the best car.

It's like when Christians say, "The Bible is the word of God because it says in the Bible, This is the word of God." That's how con artists operate, asking people to believe them because they're so believable.

Another newsletter-inspired thought: I've done a lot of "seva" (volunteering) for RSSB. An awful lot. Years and years of it. So I understand the attraction of performing selfless service for the guru and a spiritual community in general. It feels good to give of yourself.

But Hitchens makes an excellent point:

Nine times out of ten, in debate with a cleric, one will be told not of some dogma of religious certitude but of some instance of charitable or humanitarian work undertaken by a religious person…My own response has been to issue a challenge: name me an ethical statement made or an action performed by a believer that could not have been made or performed by a non-believer.

As yet, I have had no takers. (Whereas, oddly enough, if you ask an audience to name a wicked statement or action directly attributable to religious faith, nobody has any difficulty in finding an example.)

The RSSB teachings put a big emphasis on serving the Master. The newsletter contains a call for volunteers to construct bathrooms at the RSSB center in Petaluma. Design/Construction seva (service) also is available at other centers around the world.

There's nothing wrong, and a lot right, with volunteering. But there are plenty of "seva" opportunities close to home for anybody, religious or not. Charitable organizations always are looking for warm bodies willing to lend a hand.

What bothers me now, and even concerned me in the days when I did a lot of volunteer work for RSSB, is that members of religious groups often come to feel that volunteering done under the auspices of their group somehow is more worthy than other sorts of service.

It isn't very selfless to consider that the service you're providing is going to result in your getting spiritual goodies, up to and including salvation. Yet this is how the RSSB faithful look upon seva for the guru.

Hitchens again:

If we stay with animal analogies for a moment, owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are god. Whereas owners of cats are compelled to realize that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they draw the conclusion that they are god.

(Cats may sometimes share the cold entrails of a kill with you, but this is just what a god might do if he was in a good mood.) Religion, then, partakes of equal elements of the canine and the feline. It exacts maximum servility and abjection, requiring you to regard yourself as conceived and born in sin and owing a duty to a stern creator.

But in return, it places you at the center of the universe and assures you that you are the personal object of a heavenly plan. Indeed, if you make the right propitiations you may even find that death has no sting, and that an exception to the rules of physical annihilation may be made in your own case.

It cannot be said enough that this preachment is immoral as well as irrational.

Comments

[Jeremy]

Great post. What Hitchens said is so apt. And I love your comment about the literature made your psyche soar. It used to do that for me as well. Not any more. Last weekend i threw out a whole lot of Sant Mat literature. Now that made my psyche soar as I threw off a few more heavy chains ;-)

[william]

“In the same fashion, whenever I read a brochure from, say, Toyota, I learn that the best cars in the world are made by – no big surprise – Toyota. Now, this may indeed be the case. But there has to be an independent source of truth for claims like that, whether they be for the best guru or the best car.”

I believe that if you look at organizations that rate cars Toyota may very well indeed be the best quality car with the highest rankings for overall quality and customer satisfaction. As a former consultant that taught the Toyota production system their commercials were they state “in pursuit of perfection” is not just a marketing ploy. They really are doing that as I worked with their consultants all over America and visited their plants in Japan. I did notice their 2007 Camay had several defects. One can only image what happened in Japan after that news came out.

The Toyota production system was a creative insight of one person that worked at Toyota. It is a paradigm shift of the highest order. America’s big three were unable to accomplish this paradigm shift (i.e. not for the lack of trying) and now they pay the price in lost sales and decline in market share. Switching from a results-only oriented society to process oriented society has proved to be too difficult for we Americans and most in the western culture.

The 21st century will be an Asian century as far as wealth from work is concerned. They are much more process oriented than we are in the western culture.

It took me many years in life to accept that a guru’s ego and cherished beliefs can take over their minds just like the rest of us mere mortals. I don’t think we yet know the relationship of effort and consciousness advancement in love and intelligence. There appears to be many variables involved in our on going progress in the evolution of our consciousness.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Dear Brain,

Your every post makes me think again and again and I read it again and again only to know why you tried with RSSB alone. There are quite a large number of religious organizations which impart teachings on meditation.

As far as RSSB is concerned, if you listen to the present master he normally states that the mortal body of the master as well as of the disciple will not go beyond the cremation ground. Therefore, do not convey by any means that one has to worship the body of the master in RSSB.

Your inquisitive nature is highly commendable. It has rendered you enormous praise from all quarters. I am your silent admirer.

At the back of my mind, I always feel that you must have achieved a lot from “Surat- Shabad” yoga, as you have done Simran incessantly. You must have listened to the master with reverence and followed. The followers have their own shortcomings and always feel more concerned about listening to the stories which can be real or fictional.

There is no dearth of followers who have made tremendous spiritual progress in the path of Surat Shabad yoga.

I do not know why do I have a concern for you.

May be past karma!!!!!

To say that "When the old sermon doesn’t soar anymore" implies that it does.

[william]

"To say that "When the old sermon doesn’t soar anymore" implies that it does."

Some people are able to move on from the old sermons and others find comfort in those same old sermons. This is the relativity of life.

Maybe just maybe Brian moving away from those same old sermons is a gift and shows this law of progress in action for Brian’s soul. Maybe nothing is wasted in the universe or stated another way perfectly imperfect when we do not judge by appearances.

How dynamic would life be without this relativity of phenomena in our lives? Maybe pure awareness is static and this expression of pure awareness called life and universe makes it dynamic.

My contention is that to be dynamic life must be relative. Relativity demands variation and variation demands less than perfection and less than perfection demands ignorance (I.e. not knowing). Their lies the connection between ignorance and suffering. Cannot have one without the other.

A Buddhist monk would find it impossible to comprehend or even do reflection on what I have just stated because Buddhist’s monks find comfort in the same old sermons and have made a religion out of the Buddha’s teachings even through he advised them not to.

[Sam]

To all Souls!!!
May Peace be upon you all.

please advise,what are the five sounds called ie shabads?

why do you need a living master and why at initiation, if god is within you and the soul is from the creator we are one with him alredy, so we are one with god. if we have the understanding and have the insight, then why we can not get the five shabads to enjoy without being initiated, one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace for every single atom in his creation, then why one can not get the five melodies to enrich the soul further, without being initated by a living master??

God is living within us, then that makes us living with GOD!! so whats the BIG deal with the five Holy Names.

Can some one please tell me these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabads?
I would be most Gratefull to anyone who could let me know these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabda,as one who has already been initiated.

Thank you all.

[tAo]

Sam,

If you really wish to know the five names mantra, then go the proper way and apply for initiation. If you sincerely want something, then you should respect the traditional way that it is given. It will do you no good to be dishonest aaand circumvent and go the cheap improper way.

Once you get initiation and learn the mantra, you can then decide if you wish to continue on with the meditation and the simran and the current RS guru. You are always free to leave if you so desire.

But you seem to want to get something for nothing. That is the wrong attitude and it shows that you are not yet ready for initiation. There is no reason that you cannot apply for initiation. So why do you wish to cheat? That is the wrong attitude in spiritual matters. Someone else may consent to tell you the names, but the truth is that it will avail you nothing, and moreover, you will be left as a cheater.

That all being said, I would actually suggest that you really examine just why it is that you seek to know the five names mantra, and also especially why you want to go the Sant Mat path? What exactly do you seek to gain that think you do not have? By itself, the mere five names mantra will do you no good anyway. So just what and why are you seeking anything spiritually? Beside a mere mantra, what is it that you are really seeking? Do you even know?

The answers to these simple yet important questions should be clear to you before you proceed in any direction.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Dear William,
I stand nowhere to criticize you but your concept of dynamism by jumping from one corner to the other and then so beautifully justifying every act of it, is really interesting.

It reminds me the words of an Australian professor, "when asked, sir, what your field of specialization is? He answered that life is too short to specialize in anything. Truly, I have spent several years of my life on one topic and have come to know that my knowledge in that topic is negligible. I am satisfied to know it."

IMO, nature is the most dynamic entity on the earth which continues to change every fraction of time that a human mind can conceive of.

With love

[Tucson]

Sam,

I agree with Tao's comments regarding both of your posts. In fact, Tao's comment above in this thread is very close to what the current RS master would say in response to your request for the names.

You said:

"..god is within you and the soul is from the creator we are one with him alredy,.."

"God is living within us, then that makes us living with GOD!!"

--See, you already know that you are the living truth. Nothing needs to be done except to BE as you are.

As a former devotee, I could give you the names but that would allow you to cheat and compromise my integrity by allowing you to do so. Obtaining the names in this fashion would give them no power for you. You may as well repeat "rock, paper, scissors, goat, cheese" as your mantra. That being said, the names have been publicized on the web. Don't underestimate the power of Google. If it is meant to be, you will find them.

[Sam]

Thanks fellows for your feed back.

First of all i do not wish to CHEAT myself or anyone in that matter, and one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace as a base to enrich the soul further, without being initated by a living master??

What if i don't want to be initiated by RS guru??? or follow the RSSB sect.

I didn't even think of getting something for nothing, i just wanted to know what the five names were, but now as you say that it is a MANTRA has POWERS, I do not wish disrespect anyone on any level.

Tao, did you find and then go the proper way or you learnt the truth some other way??? i think if i apply to be initiated just for the sake of the five names and then leave the sect, that i think would be wrong and cheating the whole system !!!
I would rather keep on researching till i find the answer,any other way without being attached to anyone or sect or hurting anyone feelings.

LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL SOULS

[Sam]

Peace and love to you Tucson

AS you mentioned, the names have been publicized on the web. would you happen to know which site and under what heading??

I would like to understand what they are and why the hush hush fuss about knowing them, as a man of science and free sprited soul i was just asking what they were, thats all.

LOVE and PEACE to ALL

[william]

Rakesh Bhasin: it is obvious to me that you failed to understand my words but you are not alone.

Not quite sure how your take on nature is different than mine. Everything has the appearance of changing that is the relative part.

It is our lack of knowing this underlying reality that I call ignorance. Ignorance is an interesting word and I find it sets the ego ablaze with anger and defensive behavior. Sometimes I use the term unawareness or not knowing to try and keep the reader’s ego from responding with such anger.

One person I contacted about my discovery concerning ignorance and suffering the only words he could use was bullshit about 20 times.

And of course this person claims to be realized. Like I would want to follow whatever path he has been on if the extent of his vocabulary was bullshit. He demonstrated perfectly paradigm paralysis. Classic example of it and he is realized? It appears the power of paradigms is even in full affect with those that claim realization. I studied enlightened masters for many years and learned over time they can be as affected by their beliefs as the person on the street.

Then this realized person claims that we are nothing and all effort is useless and goes on to write and sell books on how to be successful in life. Got to love contradictory thinking.

Jumping from one corner to another if it is confusing why not seek it out and maybe or maybe not learn something new? That is my point we do not seek it out and learn because we humans are content with the same old sermons. It brings us comfort whether we are advaita, Christian, atheist, or skeptic.

Again that is the power of paradigms. A paradigm shift is a rare phenomena and it appears that is exactly what Brian may going through. He has decided to not listen to the same old sermons and that was my point.

I suspect it is somewhat painful for him to give up his former path that he put so much faith in and now look at the world anew. From my point of view he felt duped and nothing makes an atheist out of us faster than feeling duped. The Catholics seem to do the best job of creating atheists out of its followers that have felt duped.

Hitchens is a classic example of that and he is really angry about that feeling duped. I also suspect there is more to his story than he is telling us but only suspect. That anger may be coming from somewhere deeper than feeling duped.

Check it out most of us on here with the exception maybe is Brian we are presenting the same old sermons and not asking questions. The ego wants to be known for knowing especially the American ego.

When I used to go to trade shows the Asians would be asking one question after another and I would observe the Americans walking by booths saying such things as yes I know that and that and that. Fascinating to watch in action the difference in the cultures. This may help to explain why Toyota is number one in the world in sales and quality and the big three are shrinking faster than the ice caps.

thanks for the comments I put a trial ballon out there and it did not fly far. the journey continues.

[Brian]

Sam, I've written a post called "Sant Mat's Five Holy Names Aren't So Holy." See:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2007/08/sant-mats-five-.html

In that post you'll find some links that you could easily find yourself via a Google search, just as I did:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/santmatcharanradhasoamifacts/message/1186
http://www.breatharian.com/wileybrooks/fivemagic5dwords.html

I think we have to get beyond superstition here. RSSB initiates often are told, and say themselves, "The five names have so much power, you could stop a speeding train by repeating them."

But hardly anybody -- maybe nobody -- can even stop their own train of thoughts with them. A word is just a word.

I've never told anyone the five names. But I've got no problem pointing people to places on the Internet where others have done so. Like I said, the names aren't holy. It's our own thinking that either makes them so, or not.

[tAo]

Sam,

You wrote (within quotes):

"and one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace as a base to enrich the soul further, without being initated by a living master??"

-- If you are asking whether you must be initiated to have "pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace", then the answer is NO you do not need to become initated to gain or to have those qualities and virtues that you mentioned.

"What if i don't want to be initiated by RS guru??? or follow the RSSB sect."

-- Then by all means don't get initiated or follow RSSB. Do whatever you like. No one here has said that it is necessary for you to get initiated. Its up to you.

"I didn't even think of getting something for nothing, i just wanted to know what the five names were"

-- You may not think so, but actually you are trying to get something for nothing. You also contradict yourself. You say you want the mantra, but you don't want to follow RS. So its obvious to me that hyou are a hypocrite and a would-be cheater.

But apparently you think there is something kimportanbt about the five names, so that is why you are desparate to know them. Or else you are just here to see, to test if someone will divulge the mantra to you, when in fact you can easily get it elsewhere on the internet. So tend not to buy your pretensions about this. Your repeated insistence on getting the five names in this particular forum when you can easily get them elsewhere is rather suspicious imo.

However, the more important thing is not the five names at all, but WHAT exactly are YOU really seeking? Why do you even care about some obscure mantra? I don't see why you are so hung up on some such mantra.... other than curiosity and laziness. The mantra just not all that important. It's not important at all.

As others have pointed out, you can easily get the names on the internet if you really want them... so why don't you do that if getting the names is so important to you. You will eventually find out that whether you know the names or not is totally irrelevant. The names are just mere words composed of syllables. The only meaning they have is the meaning that you give to them. They are not magic, nor powerful unless you believe that they are, and even then they hold no power in themselves. They are intended supposedly to occupy the mind so as to focus the attention.

You can find out the five names mantra if you want, but once you have the mantra, you will be no better off than you are now. They are only words. The power and the spirit is within you, not in the words. The words/names/mantra is just intended as an aid to meditation. And it may or may not be effective in your case depending on various factors. The names are not the Truth, they are not indispensible, they are just mere words fashioned into a mantra.

Anyway, this discussion about the stupid mantra is lame and boring. Go get the names if you want, but its not going to do anything for you other than satisfy your curiosity and your cheating propensity. It's not going to give you any spiritual power or wisdom or advantage.

"but now as you say that it is a MANTRA has POWERS, I do not wish disrespect anyone on any level."

-- Incorrect. I never said that it has "POWERS".

"Tao, did you find and then go the proper way or you learnt the truth some other way???"

-- I did not get "the truth" from any group, cult, philosopy, meditation, or path. But then I don't k ow what you mean by "the truth". "Truth" is just a word... I only know my Self. But I did learn the so-called five names mantra via Sant Mat initiation. But I don't follow RSSB or any other spiritual cult or guru or path.

"i think if i apply to be initiated just for the sake of the five names and then leave the sect, that i think would be wrong and cheating the whole system"

-- No, getting in itiated is not cheating at all. You are free to join and free to leave. However, it IS cheating the "system" to attempt to gain the mantra from someone other than the guru in a way oither than formal in intiation. That is the tradition of Sant Mat. You can do as you like, but it is not going to help you. Whether you have the mantra or not, it won't make any difference. What you are seeking is totally irrelevant. Do you want the Truth, or do you just want some stupid mantra? That is the question that you need to answer for yourself.

"I would rather keep on researching till i find the answer,any other way without being attached to anyone or sect"

-- Research all you want, but you will not find the Truth in any mantra, any person, or any sect.

"I would like to understand what they are and why the hush hush fuss about knowing them"

-- There is no hush or fuss about knowing them. Where do you get that idea?

"as a man of science and free sprited soul i was just asking what they were, thats all."

-- Then be free spirited and don't be so concerned or worry about one mere mantra.... and also let go of uselessly trying to cheat the Sant Mat system.

[Tucson]

See, this is the power of the mind. Brian still has enough respect for the names to not reveal them, at least not directly. It is this power that is behind the names, not the names themselves that furthers one's meditation.

I have never said the names to anyone either even though I have not been associated with RS since the early '90's.

Also, I was initiated in TM (transcendental meditation) many years ago and was given a simple mantra that I was told never to reveal. So far, I haven't.

There is something about this that plants a seed of will or intent that grows within you. Once let go, one might feel that seed is lost and one has violated their word even if it is based in superstition.

In a ceremony, and in life, your word is your power. To violate that is to give it away. In RS one makes four vows. Eventually, I broke them numerous times which certainly diminished the power of my original intent. Do not take breaking a promise or vow lightly. The power can be regained, but it takes work.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Dear William,

There was nothing occult in your words that someone may or may understand. You have always been crystal clear in your expression.

The only point I was trying to bring home was that IT TAKES A LIFE LONG EFFORT TO PERFECT EVEN A SMALL THING. EVEN SMALL INVENTIONS/ DISCOVRIES HAVE A GRIT AND HARD WORK OF THE WHOLE LIFE OF A PERSON. Yet there are people who enjoy more pleasure in acquisition of knowledge of several such inventions/discoveries. And hang on to move from from point to other ( BY ANY MEANS I DO NOT SAY IT IS BAD).

It is my personal experience that more I try to know about a thing more I come to know that I do not know.

Ignorance and knowledge are complimenrtary. A kowledgable person knows how ignorant he is of so many things.

I normally say that man has not created anything in this world. IT HAS ONLY CHANGED THE STATE OF THE MATTER.

Yet I say that if man has created in this world is nothing else but EGO, EGO EGO AND EGO alone.

with love

[Cyfer]

"Our Universe may be nothing more than an elementary particle in a far grander universe"

If you want a good read, read November's issue of Scientific American.

I used to not believe in string theory but, it's come along way. It seems the law of gravity and an explaination of inflation (the start of this universe) both arise organically within string theory. So, maybe there is something to it. Anyway, while reading the article i got the feeling that we are reaching into the realms of the Gods. I got that old time feeling whenever great truths are discovered "man is not meant to know this".

Peace.

[sam]

LOVE and PEACE TO ALL SOULS.

I hope my answer was read by Tao and Tucsaon.
As afree sprit i hope they understand who i am and where i am going.

Thank you all for you feed back!!
LOVE and PEACE to ALL

[Sam]

FAO Tucson

Why don'you find out where this soul is , rather than being told, every person has a different idea and veiw of it, so i can't generally say where this is in the human body it may vary!!! but iy's important to know that one can feel it, as being one with the soul. there i s no end or beginning!! it just transforms it's energy levels. Thats the reason why one has to move to a higher energy level than one present on this planet.
As i said it's my knowing of the word COHESION it may appear to you different.
WHY should you Clarifiy to the readers,and say "as if anyone would be interested." Let each reader voice there own opion on this and give their own a feed back, thats what this blog is all about , not one persons i.e your-summary!!
As a happy joyful free sprit i feel there is still roon in me to welcome more warmth of love and higher levels of pure engery which are being radiant in other universal planes.
LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL