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September 02, 2007

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BRIAN wrote: "However, just as with Ibn 'Arabi, I've learned to mentally translate Ramana's "He's" and "Him's" into "That's." Ramana recognized that some people are drawn to a conception of a personal divinity, so he gave them what they wanted."

Yeah, some people get really picky about this. We have to use some sort of word to discuss 'reality' so these pronouns and identifying terms have to be used even though it is not a thing that can be conceived. Otherwise there would be a lot of blanks in the sentences or no sentences at all. It is necessary to allow Ramana and others some literary license, so to speak.

**************

When it becomes clear that our 'self' is only a concept and not what we really are, then we are free to snap out of that fixation and to live free, as we are, as it is.

To me, surrender means acceptance of what is, as it is, and to go on playing one's part in the play, but without the same degree of attachment to how we want things to be or turn out. We are like actors and should play our parts sincerely and well, but without the seriousness that full-on ego identification brings. Anger, envy and ill-will become less desireable, potent and shorter-lived because we now recognise the world around us as ourself. The polarities of love and hatred are replaced by a feeling of benediction for all, though some call that feeling 'love'. Cause and effect will manifest but individual will is seen as illusory, a function of the phenomenal (split) aspect of mind playing the game of subject-object. One is freed from all that depended on 'free' will and is thus liberated from the burden of "me".

Take a deep breath and let go. Aaaaaahhhhh.

Brian,

Here are my own revisions of those quotations that you mentioned:


Complete surrender (bhakti) is another name for jnana, which is none other than mukti (liberation). Thus, offer yourself up unconditionally to the Supreme Personality of Godhead - Bhagavan Sri Krsna, the power that is your own source (paramatman).

It is enough that one surrenders oneself. Surrender is to give oneself up to the original cause of one's being which is none other than Sri Krsna. Do not delude yourself by imagining such a source to be some God outside you. Your source is within. Give yourself up to the Supreme Godhead, the Paramatman, Bhagavan Sri Krsna.

Complete surrender does require that you have no desire of your own other than to serve the Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krsna, and that Krsna's pleasure alone is your only desire and that you have no other desire of your own other than to lovingly serve Sri Krsna and His devotees.

Banish even the thought "I am a fit instrument for Him", and thus be ever most humble to Sri Krsna's divine grace.

Abidance in one's real constutional state is to exist as a humble servant of the Lord Sri Krsna; it is remaining only with the thought "I will humbly accept whatever situation or circumstance that Lord Krsna places me in"; it is sincere devotional service to the paramatman Sri Krsna. The unlimited Krsna consciousness that shines in this state is the [true] spiritual consciousness.

Surrender to Krsna and abide by Krsna's will, whether He appears or He vanishes; await His pleasure alone. If you ask Krsna to do as you please, it is not surrender but command to Him. You cannot have Krsna obey you and yet think that you have surrendered. Only through loving devotional service can one gain Krsna's mercy. Krsna is controlled only by the LOVE of devotees.

Sri Krsna always knows what is best and when and how to do it. Leave everything to Krsna. He is the original causeless cause of all causes; you have no longer any cares. If you become His devotee, all your cares will be His. Such is true surrender. This is both true bhakti and true jnana. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sri Krsna, is transcendental and is eternal existence, knowledge, and bliss (sat-chit-ananda).

Therefore kindly please chant:

Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna
Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare
Hare Rama, Hare Rama
Rama Rama, Hare Hare

...and immediately attain the highest liberation to the eternal transcendental platform, from drowning in the mundane ocean of nescience and material suffering.

Hari bol! Chant the name of Krsna!


Awe!

Utterly still having no mental movements.

--Chris

One of the most cherished beliefs we have is free will. One wonders what the Christian religion would be like without their belief in free will. Without the threat of evil and sinfulness due to our free will, which lead to our fallen status, the collection box would take a huge hit in offerings.

We certainty appear to have free will but as Jesus so rightly stated 'judge not by appearances".

Tucson bob if you think the attacks on me over my origin of ignorance statements are harsh one should see how people react when I suggest we do not have free will. Ouch and more ouch’s. We do have the appearance of a freedom to choose (volition) but within those choices are boundaries and the number one (maybe only one) boundary is ignorance/unawareness or stated another way “not knowing, that which is available to be known”.

I suspect that the ego loves the concept of free will and it will fight until its last illusionary breath to hang on to this cherished paradigm. The ego wants to be in control of its destiny and this desire makes for some interesting life dramas.

Most people religious and atheists alike would rather be told they are sinners than to be told they are ignorant. The ego hates to be called ignorant. It is convinced it knows reality and to prove that; the ego wants and tries to convince others that its knowledge is truth. This desire is based in doubt of course hence the mentality and passion to evangelize by the evangelicals.

Do we have a new Tao here?

William, I'm with you on this one, but I'm not sure what you mean by the following:

"... but within those choices are boundaries and the number one (maybe only one) boundary is ignorance/unawareness or stated another way “not knowing, that which is available to be known”."


Not knowing that which is available to be known is the definition of ignorance given by dr Thomas Hora. http://pagl.org/

When we come to realize not intellectualize our true identity we awaken to the reality that we are that that is. We now know that which is available to be known and it was always available to be known.

How can we be any other than that that is. Even the Christians state that god is all and all and then go on and put themselves outside of this all and all. How can this be? It even gets weirder as most Christian preachers now teach that god must adopt us and we only get adopted if we believe that Jesus was god etc, which of course is how they believe.

As one Christian scholar once stated something to the effect "logic appears to be nonexistent when it comes to religious beliefs”.

Surrender is most importantly associated with a deepening connection with soul and some form of spiritual awareness and practice. http://www.seishindo.org/articles/rob_rossel1.html
Surrender is the gateway through which this deeper connection to life begins to come about.In surrender, life suddenly is filled with new-found vitality, soulfulness and depth. This animation of soul, in turn, is capable of touching other lives, emanating a new kind of spirit, a new vibrational frequency that literally transforms the relational field...................

William,

You may be confused as to why I put "Do we have a new Tao here?" in my comment above to you. Actually it was in response to Tao's Krishna comment further up and had nothing to do with you. Could he be Swami Janeshvarananda Giri in that order? Just a wild guess.

Anyway, I'm clear about your current point and share your view on that subject.

http://pagl.org/

there is a short video on this website that goes into some detail on ignorance and its relationship to suffering.

also dr hora spent most of his life searching for answers as to what prevents us from the realization of our reality.

worth the time spent I think viewing this short video. his book beyond the dream is a good read.

Is someone posing as tao? Or did ISKCON get to him before we could?

No, tao is posting...

http://www.desertwisdom.org/dttw/index.html

http://www.deathtotheworld.com/about/about.html


Ramana Maharshi liked to quote the Old Testament: "Be still and know that I am God". Isn't that where bhakti and jnana meet? The surrender of 'being still' and the insight of 'I AM-GOD'?

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