Ah, it feels great to have my faithlessness freshened.
Thanks to God is Imaginary, I've been able to browse through cleansing pools of skepticism – proofs (some more persuasive than others) that the Big Guy Upstairs is a figment of religious imagination.
The ones I looked at resonated with me. Proof #11 -Notice that there is no scientific evidence is something I've pondered a lot. It goes along with Proof #43 - Realize that a "hidden God" is impossible.
Impossible for a Christian-sort of religion that posits a personal divinity who's interested in us, at least. For if God wants to be known via miracles, incarnations, and whatnot, then it sure seems like there should be substantive signs of this being's interactions with the world.
In fact, there aren't any.
Prayers come in for especially strong mocking, earning the primo position: Proof #1 - Try praying. Over on a companion web site, Why Won't God Heal Amputees?, I perused the executive summary and noticed "the best optical delusion in the world!."
Yeah, it's good all right. And I've fallen for it myself more than once.
Nice site. I appreciated the Resources for Rational People – a fine compendium of web sites, blogs, books, videos, forums, and such. A cornucopia of non-dogmatism.
ITS GREAT TO SEE RELIGION BEING ACCEPTED MORE NOW A DAYS... ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THAT GOD IS NOT HERE, ARE THE SAME ONES WHO WILL BE CRYING WHEN THEY HEAR THAT SEVENTH TRUMP....IM THINKING SOON HERE... AS FOR CHOICES...... GOD GAVE US FREE WILL.. HE WANTS US TO LOVE HIM ON OUR OWN.. ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP FALSE IDOLS, BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE THEM IN THE FLESH... ITS SICK... CHRIST IS THE MOST AMAZING THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED IN HISTORY... I ONLY COME TO THE LIBRARY FOR AN HOUR A WEEK TO READ THESE STATEMENTS, AND DO MY RESEARCH.... TRY READING THE BIBLE..... AS FOR ALISTER CROWLEY HES SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO HITLER WAITING FOR HIS NUMBER TO BE CALLED... NO ONE IS IN HELL YET... GOD WILL GATHER UP HIS ELECT SOON, AND I AM WAITING FOR THAT DAY WITH BELLS ON... AS FOR CHARLES WILLIAM HAMILTON.. THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE WAS GETTING ON THAT BUS AND LEAVING YOU..... THATS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I EVER MADE .. I LOVE YOU, JUDY, TERRY, PAULA, HER HUSBAND (I WAS A LITTLE ILL AT THE WEDDING) ANEETE AND TAYLOR... HOPE YOUR DAD AND TRISH ARE ALRIGHT TOO.... WHERE ARE YOU>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALL MY LOVE LORIE:
Posted by: Lorie Suzanne Borst | July 25, 2007 at 03:14 PM
Brian Hines has yet to be struck by lightning.
(Oh oh... is that a storm cloud up above)
Posted by: Marcel Cairo | July 25, 2007 at 04:45 PM
It all depends on your definitions. Does the Zeus-like fellow described in the King James bible exist, in the same way that your wife, your boss, your best friend exist? Of course not.
But is the experience of God imaginary? If so, then the following also must be devalued: beauty, honor, the number "0", dignity, bliss. None of these things can be scientifically proven to exist, so are they also false?
Posted by: Mystic Wing | July 26, 2007 at 04:52 AM
Mystic Wing, "God" is an idea, a concept. So is "unicorn." Or "thousand-headed dragon." In that sense God is surely real, just as any idea, concept, fantasy, dream, or other mental creation is.
Yes, imagination and conceptualization is real. But only in a very limited sense -- inside human consciousness.
This isn't what "God" means to most people. God is considered to be really, really real. The source. The creator. Independent of any and all ideas. The unmoved mover.
You seem to be saying that since I can imagine something that seems real to me, and I can't prove to anyone else that it exists, therefore God must be real, since I can imagine the notion of "God," yet can't prove that this notion exists either.
All this proves is that we can imagine or conceptualize anything.
Posted by: Brian | July 26, 2007 at 11:33 AM
Then what, pray tell, exists outside human consciousness? The answer is: nothing whatsoever. We have no experience other than that which is present in the mind. "Reality" is all by itself an imaginary concept present only within the mind.
On these pages, I sometimes see you committing the same offense of the evangelical Christian: you're determined to convince others that your reality must be theirs.
Tammy Baker's concept of God is a far cry from mine. And mine is a far cry from yours, which sometimes appears to be an the worship of Reason as God Almighty.
Does this mean that God doesn't exist? Or simply that our concepts of it are different?
Posted by: Mystic Wing | July 26, 2007 at 12:32 PM
To: Lorie Suzanne Borst
You are one hell of a sick individual. In fact, you are mentally ill. Please go get some professional help.
Your shouting hell-fire and brimstone comments are nothing short of the ramblings of a religious nut fruit-cake..
Take your big-mouth trailer-trash soap-opera sunday-school mentality and stick it way back up into your fat red-neck asshole where it doth cometh from.
Now let us all sing:
"Gimme dat ole-time (pagan) religion,
Gimme dat ole-time (natha) religion,
Gimme dat ole-time (tantric) religion,
It's good enough for me."
Posted by: tao | July 26, 2007 at 05:23 PM
My opinion on your excellent post:
Questioning the existence or non-existence of god is irrational and not logical. God has never existed, does not exist now and will not exist. What does exist is consciousness, contracting and expanding.
Posted by: Elizabeth W | July 26, 2007 at 06:16 PM
Elizabeth W. doesn't want to give it a name. Good idea, but I would ask: Could it be that expansion and contraction are merely concepts with no reality of their own? Where does Consciousness expand to and where does it expand from if Consciousness is here now. Can Here expand and contract? At what point would Here be considered expanded or contracted? How big is big? How small is small?
Posted by: Tucson Bob | July 26, 2007 at 10:22 PM
the skeptics call consciousness the hard problem if consciousness is the hard problem imagine what awareness is.
Posted by: researcherseeker | July 27, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Boring, boring, boring. That's how i discribe that web site. I couldn't even read thru 4 of um. More boring that church.
Posted by: Louie | July 27, 2007 at 09:33 AM
WHO IS CHARLES WILLIAM HAMILTON??!!
WHY DID YOU LEAVE HIM??!!
WHY AM I TYPING IN ALL UPPERCASE??!!
Posted by: Todd Chambers | July 27, 2007 at 02:29 PM
Dear Tucson Bob:
Expansion and contraction in themselves need to be turned inside out; expansion becomes contraction and contraction expands to immensity.
The Here is the Was and Will Be.
The big is small as the universe with the small as huge as a pinhead.
You ask are they concepts. I don't know.
Posted by: Elizabeth W | July 27, 2007 at 06:48 PM
Thanks much for those sites.
I agree. Religion etc is definitely imaginary and believers are definitely delusional.
Posted by: tao | July 28, 2007 at 12:04 AM
Dear Elizabeth W,
Then at what point could it be determined that inside is outside or outside is inside?
We're getting close here.
Perhaps God, Consciousnes or whatever we want to call IT neither exists nor doesn't exist.
Whatever IT is seems to be non-conceptual.
Posted by: Tucson Bob | July 28, 2007 at 11:09 AM
it is interesting that we humans always see others that do not share our cherished beliefs as delusional.
the repubs think the demos are delusional
the demos think the repubs are delusional
the atheists think the religious are delusional
the religious think the atheists are delusional and then some.
the capitalists think the socialists are delusional
the socialists think the capitalists are greedy war for profit warmongers: ok delusional does not work here.
the workers think their ceo is delusional
the: well you get the picture
if we were not delusional and every human thought and looked alike and shared the same beliefs, what would the world be like?
Maybe everything is right on track like Brian just wrote about in his latest entry. Hard to imagine little lone accept with all the pain and suffering in the world but something to meditate on.
Why is it the mystics see a world of love and we see delusional people other than ourselves and those that think like us of course.
Posted by: researcher seeker | July 28, 2007 at 10:45 PM
How is it possible not to be deluded in one area or another? What prevents us from being entrenched and self-satisfied in our delusions is unguarded discussion with people who hold different views, and through research.
Posted by: Catherine | July 29, 2007 at 12:28 AM
if sant mat had ever published any kind of spiritual experiences, maybe i wouldn't have lost faith in it.
Posted by: Mark | July 31, 2007 at 08:31 AM
There is only one fact - no one knows how the universe was created or whether or not god exists. Anything outside of that is speculation, theoretical, imaginary, or guesswork. Because we don't know something is for certain (or not for certain), the only valid response must be - "I don't know and do not profess to."
Posted by: Russ | August 01, 2007 at 02:52 PM
FIRST OF ALL IF YOU NEED TO CURSE ME OUT YOU MUST BE ONE OF THE 33.1 PERCENT... ALL I CAN DO IS PRAY FOR YOU. IM GLAD I GOT TO YOU.. MAYBE YOU WILL THINK AND NOT TYPE SUCH IGNORANT BULLSHIT.. PEACE BE WITH YOU MY FRIEND...
Posted by: borstlorie | August 03, 2007 at 01:46 PM
IT'S FUNNY TO ME THAT YOU PEOPLE ARGUING OVER CHRIST... WHAT DO YOU MEAN GOD IS NOT REAL? HOW DID YOU GET HERE? NO BETTER YET, WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON LIFE AND WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE IN? i CAN READ AND WRITE WITH UNDERSTANDING.... DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE BIG OLD BANG THEORY OR ARE YOU JUST ONE OF SATANS FLOOWERS... SORRY BUT ALISTER CROWLWY WAS A SICK INDIVIDUAL... HOW CAN YOU QUOTE HIM, AND EXPECT TO GET ANY POSITIVE FEEDBACK... HE'S PROBABLY HANGING OUT WITH THE LOCNESS MONSTER IN SCOTTLAND.... IM GLAD MY RESPONSE STARTLED YOU... I'D BE SCARED TOO IF I WERE YOU.............GOD BLESS YOU, AND I MEAN IT... JESUS DID SAY "FATHER THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING" AND I BELIEVE YOU DONT............PEACE
Posted by: Lorie Borst | August 04, 2007 at 01:58 PM
To Lorie Borst,
You are god-damned moron. In fact, you are mentally ill. Your pathetic religious bullshit sucks, and you are a delusional religious nut. Do go and get some professional psychiatric help.
Your use of all caps shouting hell-fire and brimstone comments are nothing short of the ramblings of a crazed christian cult bitch.
Take your goofy big-mouth trailer-trash soap-opera sunday-school jack-ass Jesus mentality and stick it back into your fat red-neck ass where it doth cometh frometh, you stupid dumb-ass religious troll bitch.
Take your pissy little prayers and your stupid simple-minded hypocritical self and flush em both down the toilet. It's the insanely delusional people like you who are behind a great deal of the problems on this green earth. So go find yourself another blog to harangue and shout at with your christian religious garbage.
Posted by: tao | August 05, 2007 at 11:39 AM
THATS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THE ANTI CHRIST..... THANKS FOR MAKING YOURSELF KNOWN... YOU GET UPSET EASILY... THANK YOU... AGAIN I DID MY JOB.
Posted by: Lorie Borst | August 09, 2007 at 12:56 PM
To Lorie Borst:
You are truly a religious moron. You just don't have any clue as to how clueless you really are.
And you are clearly the "upset" one, because you are still shouting with all caps. You are really pathetic. Really.
I wish you could see just how brain-washed and trapped in religious dogma and myth you are. People like you are rather sad.
I really and truly hope that someday you can find your way out of the darkness of ignorance and nonsense that you cling to. Until then, unfortunately you are just another confused religious nut.
Be Free. BE FREE. Only the Truth will set you free. (NOT Jesus, NOT the Bible, NOT the Church, and NOT Religion)
Otherwise, you are in for a rather rude awakening someday.
Posted by: tao | August 09, 2007 at 03:46 PM
To Lorie Borst:
Brian provided this link awile ago:
It would seem remarkable to me if anyone's faith in the Bible could survive a thorough reading of this site.
I promise I am not the Anti-Christ. I sincerely hope you find the truth that is within you and nowhere else.
Posted by: Tucson Bob | August 09, 2007 at 05:22 PM
I WRITE IN CAPS SO I CAN READ WHAT I WRITE BETTER... AS FOR BEONG A RELIGIOUS MORON, I'M NOT CALLING OUT NAMES... JUST SPEAKING HOW I FEEL... I DON'T NEED TO SINK TO YOUR LEVEL... THANKS, I HAVE FOUND THE TRUTH WITHIN ME, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE A MAJOR COWARD ON OUR HANDS THAT TAKES LIFE AND FAITH IN GENERAL
FOR GRANTED... PEOPLE LIKE YOU TAO, KEEP ME GOING... AS FOR HELP, MY TEACHER WHO HAPPENS TO BE CHRIST WILL LET ME KNOW WHEN I'VE GONE TOO FAR... LOOKS TO ME LIKE YOU HAVE GONE OVER THE EDGE BUDDY... EVER OWN A ALLIGATOR?? DO YOU OWN A STRIP CLUB CALLED THE MINX? JUST CURIOUS.... PEACE BREWER... YOUR GETTING UGLIER BY THE MINUTE... HEY, I NEVER BORROWED MONEY FROM MY PARENTS, OR RATTED OUT A FRIEND.... ONE MORE MONTH BUDDY.....
Posted by: Lorie Borst | August 10, 2007 at 01:38 PM
To Lorie Borst,
Every time you post it beomes more and more obvious what a mentally deranged simpleton you are. As for Jesus "CHRIST", he is but a myth.
Some more clear evidence of your idiotic ramblings and mental/emotional derangment:
Lorie Borst wrote:
"EVER OWN A ALLIGATOR?? DO YOU OWN A STRIP CLUB CALLED THE MINX? JUST CURIOUS.... PEACE BREWER... YOUR GETTING UGLIER BY THE MINUTE... HEY, I NEVER BORROWED MONEY FROM MY PARENTS, OR RATTED OUT A FRIEND.... ONE MORE MONTH BUDDY"
Take your nonsensical Christian crapola, your dumb-ass plastic Jesus myth, and your psychotic delusional ramblings, and go find a Christian meme believer blog-site where you belong.
Better yet, go check into a psychiatric hospital and take your Meds.
Posted by: tao | August 10, 2007 at 03:54 PM
I LOVE IT BREWER.. YOUR UGLY ASS SATANIC WAYS ARE FADING FAST BUDDY, LIKE YOUR TEMPORARY RICHES... YOU ARE TOO MUCH.. YOU ARE THE ONE I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING AGAINST MY WHOLE LIFE... CAN'T WAIT TO SEE YOU GET CAST IN A LAKE OF FIRE... OH, DID I RIP YOU OFF IN A DESPERATE ATTEMPT TO GET SOMAS?? OH MY... ARE WE RUNNING OUT OF VICODIN?? LOSER... SPOKEN LIKE THE TRUE LUCIFER THAT YOU ARE... AS JESUS WOULD SAY "GET BEHIND ME SATAN" PEACE TO ALL THE OTHERS WHO MY BE LEARNIN, AFTER ALL I AM A STUDENT OF CHRIST AS WELL, NO MORE, NO LESS......
Posted by: lORIE bORST | August 11, 2007 at 01:34 PM