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November 06, 2006


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Why are people angry over someone actually professing the curiously-unspoken central tenet of the faith? You get toe God and Heaven through Christ. Don't believe in Christ? Then you don't get to God and Heaven.

The real problem is the Christians who pretend this isn't the basis of their faith.

If I lived in Texas, I wouldn't look on the prospect of hell as much of a threat.

Dear b!X,
"You say you get to God and heaven through Christ." If that is your personal belief, then more power to you. I won't judge.
But you also add, "Don't believe in Christ? Then you don't get to God and Heaven." How do you know this? If it is because the Bible says so, then as Brian's post points out, that the Bible says a whole bunch of other things, often contradicting itself. That comment reeks of a moral superiority and judgementalism that the are (or should be) essentially un-Christian. You might argue that by me calling you morally superior and judgemental, I am being judgemental myself. That is obviously true, but I hope that you will at least think about the larger issue here: namely, of how fundamentally flawed it is to confuse faith with actual knowing.

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad." - F. Nietzche

A few comments:

So, if Christianity is just a bunch of bunk, what's the problem? What difference does it make to you if the Bible says that unrepentant sinners (regardless of whether they believe themselves to be Christians or not -- Matthew 7:21-ff.) are going to hell? Why is it that you think that you have the right to say whatever you want about God, but some Texas pastor doesn't?

Now, don't tell me that the Texas pastor is mixing his belief with politics, bringing his beliefs into the public domain, but you aren't? It just ain't true. You are both mixing religion and politics. In fact, people can't help but mix religion and politics. You just want to say that your belief about God is not religious, so it's okay to take it into the political realm. Now, that's a piece of bullshit because you do have a belief about God (which makes that belief religious by definition -- and it ain't atheism) and it effects everything you think and say, as do I.

How can an avowed atheist write a book that purports to be a "Guide to God-Realization." I thought atheists didn't believe in God. Oh, I see. You just don't believe the garbage you were taught in Sunday School about the God of the Bible. Neither do I.

"What really needs to be remodeled are the minds of the fundamentalists who want to make the United States into a Christian Taliban nation. We've got to keep an eagle eye on that un-American agenda." Are you suggesting a remediation Gulag, perhaps in North Dakota run by an atheist or Marxist Taliban?

From what I know of brother b!x, a Portland treasure of progressive political activism, his tongue was firmly in his commenting cheek.

I agree with him. As I was writing this post I kept having the thought, "Gov. Perry was just affirming publicly what most Christians believe privately. What's wrong with that?"

The answer I came up with is what I alluded to: an official who represents the general public should try like hell to separate his personal religious beliefs from his governmental job. Perry doesn't seem interested in doing that. Nor do a lot of other Christian faithful.

I'm a vegetarian. It's doubtful that I'll be elected to a post where I oversee food policies. But if I were, and started giving speeches about the evils of meat-eating, I'd soon get cards and letters from the carnivores.

"Keep your idiotic vegetarian beliefs out of my steak sandwich! You've got no right to impose your values on me!" True. Just as a Christian governor, or president, has no right to impose his values on the populace either.

Dear Mr. Ross,
I am not Swedish, nor of Swedish ancestry (so far as I can trace). I hope your query actually was about my ancestry, rather than being a gratuitous insult (as like in godhatesfags.com).
Robert Paul Howard

Mr. Ross, I've been listening to your thoughts on various posts. I have to admit, you are an intriguing character with an obviously large (no doubt leather-bound) concordance on hand.

What mystifies me is this: as a Christian do you know the life and times of Christ as well as you seem to know the written version that has been passed to us, intact but with obviously heavy editing (to most linguists and historians)? Because Christ as a person seemed quite annoyed with pastors (um, pharisees) who mixed church and business. Are you suggesting that Christ our Lord would embrace a group like godhatesfags? Or Rick Perry? Seriously?

Would Christ approve of those who speak His name while passing judgement on thier neighbor? Do you really think Christ has no problems with Governor Rick Perry co-signing the bullspit that Kenny Boy Lay and the rest of that cesspool of Southern, white, greedy, amoral, bible spewing hypocrites?

And can you actually claim with a straight face that there is some biblical basis (NEW Testament, Mr. Ross) that allows for the vitriol and hatred for anyone who is not a Christian according to someone else's standards? Because I can think of several passages where Chritsians are counselled to confine politics to politics and confine religion to religion -- and where we are told repeatedly not to judge, but to live peacefully with non-believers.


Atheist, Christian, Hindu, Jew or Muslim, whatever our faith, Americans in government should abide by the spirit of the laws that govern us (although the letter of the law seems diffiult to follow for many fundamentalists). Like historical biblical context, separation of church and state in context illuminates this issue: we formed this nation because the Anglican Church dictated the laws of England without regard to personal religious freedom.

Rick Perry has tried to supplant the laws of Texas with his version of fundamentalist pap, despite the graft, sexual perversity and outright callous disregard for the fellow man that typifies the GOP. If Perry wants to foment hatred, he should buy time every Sunday morning on the local Fox affilliate like everyone else. But if he wants to represent citizens in this democracy, he should respect all of his constituency and not just those he agrees with.


Finally, if we agree that Christ approves of political activism, whom do you think he would be stumping for? The people trying to rid the world of sodomists who want a lifetime committment to one another or the crowd pushing for livable wages, clean air and water, and the reinstatement of habeus corpus?

Seriously, the argument that this pastor is preaching what is in the Bible is garbage. It isn't in the Bible, and his apoloists insult real theological seekers. Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself, not very ambiguous about the subject of non-believers.

As to your mythical North Dakotan gulag of the future, does that spectre really make Guantanamo Bay palatable to you?


Jeanine is >>>>> the fighting "Mid-Town" girl. Ya gotta love her.......

To Phillip Ross:

It is quite obvious that you are a religious nut. You want to shove your Jesus religion and bible dogma upon people. You are no different than any other self-righteous believer and preacher. You think that just because someone else has a different spiritual orientation, that they are an atheist. It's just not black and white, or even grey, Mr Ross. People like you disgust me. You think your way is the only right way. You think that you have the right understanding of God. You think that Jesus and the Bible is the truth and the word of God. But people like you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. You think that your religion is best, but you don't even know who you yourself are. You are full of ideas and beliefs, but have no clue as to your own existence. You are basically just another intolerant and self-righteous Bible thumping religious nut.

That being said, if you would present something of real intelligence and reason to show us otherwise, then do so.

Roger, I'm laughing. I don't know if I was just insulted or embraced, but I'm laughing.

:~) Jeanine

Jeanine - I'm always gonna embrace. You are from the mid-town area? Best wishes, Roger

Roger, dance away, this is fun! I was confused about the "fighting" part, not the Grand Central part.

I'll try to tone it down. But I am still laughing. ;~)


Haha - my fighting remark, above, was in response to your comments to Mr. Ross. I was throwing a funny, "Fighting" label your way. I live in the DFW area of Texas. It's been some ten years since I traveled to New York. I remember staying at the Mid-Town Hilton, had tons of fun that week, I was there.

To Brian and readers:

Yep.... I call em the american biblical facists. If you don't go along with their will and their beliefs, then they will hate and comdemn you. Evil comes in many forms, and one of them is definitely christian religious facists. I have had a taste of their bitter venom too many times to be naive about them.

Dear Brian - and all others who may care,
I commend to your attention an article entitled "When Not Seeing Is Believing" by Andrew Sullivan (author of _The Conservative Soul_), on pp. 58-60 of the Oct. 9, 2006, Time magazine. (I also found the "cover story" of that issue quite worthwhile, too.)
Robert Paul Howard

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