« God vs. Science: guess who wins? | Main | Reality or belief: which are you seeking? »

November 12, 2006


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Dude, normally i think people who write blogs all the time are retarded, boring, highly opinionated losers. I still believe this to be true, but you're an exception. I look forward to reading more stuff. I'll probably buy your new book tomorrow. Just get outside or something man; computers and blogs will drive you crazy as balls.

Your post is very solid. It was very usefull for me.

I have always loved Benoit's book for the description of satori that he attempts. He is a very keen observer; I am not surprised that you have held onto this book, as I have, too.

"Any effort at all is counter-productive," is really as far as one can get in such a study, and that actually is the freeing piece. Detachment from humiliation itself is a conscious interaction with reality every day.

Your example of the pond pump is a good one, and stands up to extension: There is a lot of work that "I" need to do in order to maintain my distinction from the ten-thousand things -- in order to control the pond scum.

Happy idiot that I am, look at my reality: I am certainly equal to it!

Lovely way to start the week.


Bruce, I just saw The Big Lebowski (see post on other blog, http://hinessight.blogs.com/hinessight/2006/11/searching_for_m.html)
so thanks for using the word "Dude." Much appreciated. I mean it.

I do get out, but thanks for your concern. Owning ten acres and having a house with lots of oak trees surrounding it means that I can't help but get out with my leaf blower and rake a lot.

Edward, I suspected you were also a Benoit fan. The Amazon reviews of his book speak about how difficult it is to understand. I don't feel that way. I understand it fine. My problem is in realizing it.

Jeanine, thanks. With almost every blog post, after I've rambled on for however long I've rambled, I push the "publish" button and think, "what the hell am I doing?" I still don't know, but your six words make me feel better about doing it.

On the topic of movies, 'school of realism' in the Natural Born Killers is when the Old Indian in the dessert tells the story to Woody Harrelson and Juliete lewis about this woman who found this wounded snake in the dessert and took it in her house and nurtured it and gave it food. When the snake was well and healty, it turned around and BIT the woman who before she died complained and reminded the snake of how she helped it and nurtured it,, in which the snake replied "Bitch, you knew what I was before you took me in".

I went and borrowed Benoit's book from my uni's libary when you last mentioned it some time ago on your post and it is indeed a remarkable book. The kind of book tha make time move slower, while your perception becomes more clarified. I also enjoy D.T.Suzuki's "Essays on Zen Buddhism". I like a passage when Suzuki talks about Buddha's enlightment.

"His insight reached the bottom of his being and saw it as it really was, and the seeing was like the seeing of your own hand, with your own eyes; there was no reflection, no inference, no judgement no comparison, no moving either backward or forward step by step. The thing was seen and that was the end of it, there was nothing to talk about, nothing to argue, nothing to explain.The seeing was something complete in itself-it did not lead on to anything inside or outside,within or beyond. And it was this completness, this finality, that was entirely satisfying to the Buddha, who now knew that the chain was broken and he was a liberated man. The Buddha's experience of enlightment thus could not be understood by referring it to the intellect who tantalises but fails to fullfil and satisfy.

The Buddha's psychological experience of as life as pain and suffering was intensely real and moved him to the very debths of his being, and in consequence the emotional reaction he experienced at the time of enlightment was in proportion to this intensity of feeling".

Satori is defined as, "a spiritual awakening sought in Zen Buddhism, often coming suddenly." Is the, "coming suddenly," a correct definition?

I wonder who has awakened to Satori? Would it be proper for One that has, to make a claim that they have?

Food for thought. I shall have further questions, in later comments.

Two basic schools in Japanese Zen Buddhism: Soto and Rinzai.

Soto zen approaches enlightenment slowly, like catching a cotton wood seed on the wind. If you rush at it, you bring more wind for it to fly. If you sit, (and sit and sit and sit) the seed will land on you. When we continue sitting ("zazen" means sitting meditation), cotton wood trees grow on us, and birds and insects bring their various diseases. Vile.

Rinzai teachers make us sit in the cold courtyard wearing a koan of many colors. This is known as "original face waterboarding". The teacher yells at us when we doze off, or beats us with sticks. Very like Catholic grammer school. You get enlightenment pretty damn quick under these conditions. And kidney stones.

Satori can only be sought. If you achieve it, you have to give it back, because sharing is caring. Satori is also just like when you are "out" in Musical Chairs - you have to carry a chair to the side and watch until the game is over.

There are many people who have awakened to Satori, and they are usually willing to talk to anyone who will listen. The problem is that when they talk to us, they really talk to us, and we miss it, because we are listening.

Irish setters have awakened to Satori. Apparently, camels are theoretical mathematicians. I don't know what the deal is with squirrels.

Edward, "original face waterboarding"...I love it. Not the procedure itself--your words. We're all being interrogated by reality, aren't we?

No matter what we say, the answer isn't accepted. No exit. Until there is.

Your explication of Soto and Rinzai Zen was the best I've come across. They both sound horribly unappealing.

And also, the best options we have for finding that damn exit.

One, that has awaken to Satori, could there be such One that is among our little regulars group?

If so, beware of the persistant irritating question asking person. He is nearby.

Awakening to Satori, I'm guessing, doesn't require the word, "divine?" There is no divine awakening or enlightenment associated with Satori?

If one seeks Satori, does One need to be a follower of someone that has awakened to Satori?

There are two schools. Does that mean that the awakening to Satori may be achieved thru different schools? Meaning, that there is not just one single way to achieve Satori?

The definition of Satori used the word, "Spiritual." Is there a detailed discussion of what "Spiritual" means in this defintion?

I have rattled on enough, I shall remain quiet until responses come forth.

Best wishes,

If you have seen the movie, "Hairspray," you would know that Divine had awakened to Satori. And probably cacciatori. The Diamond Lotus was official in 1988, when Divine died during apneatic ceasura. That is not a ballet term.

If you follow someone who has awakened to Satori, you will walk into their back, because they often stop to remember where they are going.

Two basic schools in Japanese Zen Buddhism. Then there is Chan Buddhism; the Jesuit "Parochial" school; the Strasberg/Stanislavski/Swedenborg method; and a cute iron-on version that resists fading.

There IS a detailed discussion of what "Spiritual" means in this definition:

1 box brownie mix (22 ½ ounce box)
1/3 vegetable oil
2 large eggs
2 ½ cups of quick-cooking oats
1 cup raisins (optional)

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F.

Lightly coat baking sheets with cooking spray or line with parchment paper.

In a large mixing bowl, combine all ingredients with a wooden spoon.

Drop by heaping tablespoons onto prepared baking sheets.

Bake until set, about 17-20 minutes.

Remove from oven and cool on baking sheet for 5 minutes before transferring to cooling racks.

"Blessed are the cookie makers. For they shall inherit all the kitchen cleanup duties" -- The Green Lady 8233 BC

A few tidbits that were found on an internet search yesterday:

Zen is to religion what a Japanese "rock garden" is to a garden. Zen knows no god, no afterlife, no good and no evil, as the rock-garden knows no flowers, herbs or shrubs. It has no doctrine or holy writ: its teaching is transmitted mainly in the form of parables as ambiguous as the pebbles in the rock-garden which symbolise now a mountain, now a fleeting tiger. When a disciple asks "What is Zen?", the master's traditional answer is "Three pounds of flax" or "A decaying noodle" or "A toilet stick" or a whack on the pupil's head.

Zen . . . does not confuse spirituality with thinking about god while one is peeling potatoes. Zen spirituality is just to peel the potatoes.

The characteristic Zen teaching of sudden enlightment, or satori, goes back to Hui-neng, an illiterate master of the 7th cent. who defined enlightenment as the direct seeing of one's own "original nature" (i.e., Buddha).

Zen and Ch'an are, respectively, the Japanese and Chinese ways of pronouncing the Sanskrit term dhyana, which designates a state of mind roughly equivalent to contemplation or meditation, although without the static and passive sense that these words sometimes convey. Dhyana denotes specifically the state of consciousness of a buddha, one whose mind is free from the assumption that the distinct individuality of oneself and other things is real. All schools of Buddhism hold that separate things exist only in relation to one another; this relativity of individuals is called their sunyata (voidness), which means not that the world is truly nothing but that nature cannot be grasped by any system of fixed definition or classification. Reality is the tathatâ (suchness) of nature, or the world "just as it is" apart from any specific thoughts about it.

Yes, very intersting...........

Yes Yes Yes

Diana (dhyana) is seen bathing naked by Acteon, (he sees clearly essential nature). She puts a spell on him that he can't speak, (to maintain the perception of reality, we must eschew thought). When his hunting group approaches, (his baser self) he cries out to them and is turned into a stag, (now a mountain, now a fleeting tiger). Acteon's dogs attack him and tear him into bits, (there is no distinction among the ten-thousand things, things exist in relation to each other). Then, later, Chiron builds a statue of Acteon that even his dogs recognize, (wait, that makes no sense).

In several comments above, "Did someone whack me over the head with a cookie?"

Hopefully, the cookie contained raisins. I love raisins.

After enlightenment: chop wood, chew raisins?




After enlightenment: Let's all go to the lake or river and watch Serena, the environmental dog, do her thing.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.