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September 09, 2006

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A quick answer:
In keeping the ego in perspective, I allow that the spiritual knowledge of my placement in the world will rely on the machinations of my brain, (spirit/matter isometry). I think that my ego has something to offer, because it will put up my hands if I pitch face forward.

So my brain cooperates with the world and with the tyranical ego by imaging the world around me. Famously, peoples' memories of events, (traffic accidents, robberies, etc.) are often faulty, and that margin of error is where imagination lives artfully, (read Dame Frances Yates for the Renaissance era judgement on memory v imagination.)

Without imagining, I am not who I am, but I see the point that falling victim to the trick could lead to mass hysteria, thank you very much Leni Riefenstahl. This entree of perceptual trickery would only work though, if I were semi-consciously deriving my identity from my surroundings and social milieu.

So the answer may be "both, perhaps not to the point of dissolution."

Harmony in music is mathematical, like proportion. It is a language of creation. We participate in the eternal immediacy of creation by hearing harmony and distinguishing it from disharmony. But of course once you see the picture, you can't un-see the picture.

Pete Townsend keeps telling me "We won't get fooled again," and I keep wondering, "Who?"

Brian;

Are the 5 words (Mantra) used in Spiritual Mediation, another example of a Spiritual Ritual? I'm guessing, the 5 words are the same throughout the different Satsang groups. Is this true? Are they to remain confidentual? Unfortunately, due to the Internet, through some internet searches, the 5 words are now availble for all to see. Maybe, this is not that unfortunate? Again, in the final analysis, are the 5 words (mantra) a Spiritual Ritual? If my questions regarding rituals and symbols are incorrect, feel free to let me know.
Thanks.........Roger

Roger, I'd say that whenever a mental or physical practice is to be slavishly followed, that's a ritual. So sure, repetition of the five words is a ritual.

There isn't any inherent reason that this mantra is better than any other. You could say "open sesame" or "abracadabra" and get the same effect, I'm quite sure.

Like all rituals, the value lies in belief. Belief doesn't get one very far; reality does. So my experience is that satsangis get stuck in meditation because they never go beyond the boundaries of belief.

The five words are a good example of the sort of spiritual disharmony I was talking about. One of the central tenets of Sant Mat is that there is spoken and unspoken truth. The highest truth supposedly can't be expressed in words.

Yet you have this belief that the five words are the actual names of rulers of high spiritual regions. Huh? Initiates imbue the words with magical powers, yet they are nothing but concepts of a human language.

...Often I feel I learn more from your discussions here then that I can add something to it...Still, lets think out loud; 'Without imagining, I am not who I am, but I see the point that falling victim to the trick could lead to mass hysteria, thank you very much Leni Riefenstahl. This entree of perceptual trickery would only work though, if I were semi-consciously deriving my identity from my surroundings and social milieu.', Edward sayd. I agree.
So, imagination - and I speak also from my proffesion as an artist , which means working with imagination and recognizing it where ever it plays a part in our lifes (hopfully)- is something trickery, dangerous; it might pull us in blind believe easy and keep one from 'reality'. To me - again as an artist but I apply this knowledge to my spiritual endevours - the imagination needs to be understood. That means; knowing how it works, how the 'image' came to existance is more important then its 'being there'. Does it work for you as one of the tools to keep your mind open, or does it close youre mind? In other words, what do these 5 words bring into being and then how did 'they' do that? When treated like this only the form is ritual as many things are, or beter, the routine has meaning; its ritual aspect, well, its seen through and therefor is harmless. It cant prison you then. I am then in a position to imagine reality; in this case going through the trickery, understand it and free myself from it. 'As you walk and make art and meditate and eat and travel, be where you are. Otherwise you will miss most of your life.'

spooky.

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