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January 02, 2006

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Totally vague. It looks like you want to behave and write in a particular way just to serve your ego and capitalizing on people with almost no willpower.

Those people are afraid of being alone by nature and are confused. They look for some support in these messages just to pacify their own ever waivering mind. And you want to be a hero for them.

Try some real stuff. These kind of discourses anybody can write and speak. Even a butcher or professional hunter can speak of animal rights and write a good essay. But it would not be coming from within. It would be out of the reason to satisfy a section of people who believe strongly in it or are doubtful.

The commenter named "hmmm" simply hasn't got a clue as to what Brian's post is about. Talk about "vague"...well this comment of "hmmm" is beyond "vague"... it is pure twisted nonsense (otherwise commonly known as "BS").

Brian's honesty and candor is far from any "ego" or "capitalizing on people...". Nor is there any gain or advantage here for Brian. Brian is merely sharing his insights, views, and opinions, and anyone can take it or leave it.

Furthermore, most people are indeed "afraid of being alone", but most people are not at all "confused". It appears much more likely that the commenter named "hmmm" is the one who is actually "confused".

Moreover, the actual nature of the Mind itself, is "always ever waivering". There is no mystery in this. But Brian shows no indication whatsoever of wanting "to be a hero" for any such readers here. This is his own web-log, and he has every right to post and share his views, opinions, and insights for anyone who chooses to consider them.

As for "real stuff"... There is nothing in the "hmmm" comment which has any substance whatsoever.

"hmmm" wrote: "These kind of discourses anybody can write and speak." --- If that is true, then why has "hmmm" not written something of greater meaning and relevance, rather than simply criticise Brian for his openness, honesty, and self-inquiry?

"hmmm" wrote: "...and write a good essay. But it would not be coming from within."

More absurd BS. Almost everything Brian writes is from his own thoughts and experiential view, except when he makes some occasional related reference or quotation of some relevance.

The bottom-line here is that this commenter named "hmmm" has offered nothing of any substance with which to either contribute to, or discredit, anything in Brians excellent posting. "hmmm" has only made a fool of themself, by such a "totally vague" and feeble criticism of Brian.

Voodoo is Brian or Brian is Voodoo. I don't care.

What I see from here is the following...

The whispers that we hear from deep within may not be true after all. We listen to them because thats what we want to listen. For me when I wanted to study, I used to hear whisper ..."I would be able to do it later. Go and play football."

So here we need to think and analyze what kind of whisper it is from within. We may have several others. Some stupid and some not practical. Some justified and some not in place.

To us spiritualism or any religion seems like a way to define some rules which we are often reluctant to follow. So even when we decide to follow one, we start hearing so called whispers. This is because of the fact that we do not want ourselves binded by any rules. We want it in our ways and it has to be simple, rewarding and totally scientific.

But scientific reasoning is a never ending chase. Still people are busy with thoery of relativity. People who do not become scientist, they believe in the theory and spend their lives in other endeavours that they feel are more important. People who become scientists might spend rest of their lives studying it, experimenting on it and enhancing it.

So here one needs to ascertain what he wants from life. The existence of God is debatable. For people who have not seen it, its not there. People who have seen it, say that they have realized themselves. And then rest of them are seekers. In Brian's terms, I will call them as living on the edge.

For them either way is correct. They don't want to fall in abyss. But they like the idea of falling there. Somehow they think that if God is there, they will be screwed.

Most of the times the whispers that we hear are born out of the excuses that we look for. So we have to be intelligent enough to figure out, what is origintaing out of the need to search for the truth.

Just taking it to be real and not some distraction would not take us nearer to God. Whatever we may feel!!!!

Voodoo,

How do you know that

"Almost everything Brian writes is from his own thoughts and experiential view, except when he makes some occasional related reference or quotation of some relevance."

"ha ha ha" wrote: "Most of the times the whispers that we hear are born out of the excuses that we look for." ...and... "Just taking it to be real and not some distraction would not take us nearer to God"

*** I would strongly disagree with both statements. First, it is the Truth which "whispers" deep within us...if we are sensitive enought to listen and surrender. Second, EVERYTHING takes one "nearer to "God". On one hand "God" is simply a concept. On the other hand, the "God" that is Totality, is not somewhere else...it is within and without....It is all there is...everything is God, and everything is nothing but the revelation OF God, BY God, TO God. Everywhere one turns, God is there... in the one who turns, in the turning, and in that which is turned to. Moreover, the search for Truth and Reality is the the very thing which really does take us "nearer to God".

Its not the truth that always whisper. Even if we are ready to listen and surreder, we will hear what we believe in. For examle you believe in spiritual independence and not connecting to any path or relegion. So you will listen things about independence, things that would ask you to go away from bindings. And people who do not believe in existence of GOD would never listen anything in reference to GOD.

And just by saying that "search for Truth and Reality is the the very thing which really does take us nearer to God", isn't true if you are searching in a wrong direction. The only thing here is that you have tried in your own way. Seeker wihout any result cannot say that he has become "nearer to God". If he says then its his whims and fancies and his yards stick.

Before diagreeing, read the whole statement and get the context.

As to your first disagreement with the statement, I had also added "So we have to be intelligent enough to figure out, what is origintaing out of the need to search for the truth." You have disagreed with the first and replaced the second statement with "if we are sensitive enought to listen and surrender". And this is what I said - "intelligent enough to figure out".

EVERYTHING takes one "nearer to God". Its very generalized statement. Its way too high optimism. God is omnipotent as a concept and also as totality. Its in the flowers that I have on my table but I won't call myself nearer to God. Even if I see them point blank :-)

To "ha ha ha":

First, sorry to inform you, but as I said before, I don't believe in anything. I don't need to. I don't need "independence". I don't need to "to go away from bindings". And I don't need to believe in God, or not believe in God. You simply haven't got a clue as to the meaning of what I wrote previously.

Second, there is no such thing as "searching in a wrong direction". All directions are valid. There is no "wrong direction". The only thing wrong here is your interpretation of what I have previously written. Nor do I have to "have tried in your own way". I am not a "seeker". And everyone "has become nearer to God" in every moment. It is only your own "whims and fancies" which you place on others as a "yards stick".

Third, "intelligent enough to figure out" is far from being the same as listening and surrendering. It is obvious that you do not know what it is that you are talking about. I cannot say for you or for others, but for myself, there is no "the need to search for the truth", as you stated.

Lastly, your statement "Its very generalized statement" says nothing. It is meaningless. Then, "Its way too high optimism" is merely your opinion about something that you do not understand. Finally, "in the flowers that I have on my table but I won't call myself nearer to God" is simply a testimony that conscious awareness and true knowledge is absent. It is not the "flowers" on your table that are God, but the awareness itself in which perception occurs. When you know yourself, and you know that who and what you 'think' you are, does not exist in reality, then you will better understand the nature of what is commonly referred to as "God".... until then, you are merely playing word-games with concepts and beliefs.

Foodoo

All directions are valid but not correct. And what I see wrong here is that you want all to think alike.

Just for writing, I can say that you do not know what you are talking about and you look to me as old conservative guy who comments on others' spiritual awareness when he doesn't himself know a thing about it and doesn't have an authority on the subject.

Your last paragraph is nothing but for the sake of writing something. I can also write each of your statements and write against them words like meaningless, stupid, baseless, absurd BS (taking from your previous post). But this type of arguments is a fool's argument.

The problem with you is, because you might have read about different things about spirituality, you yourself like to play with words like awareness and perceptions and you try to look between the statements and try to fit in all the jargons just for the sake of arguments. As you did for flowers.

Your turning, the one who has turned and the the thing you have turned to, all have the perception of God but not somebody else's flowers. Crap.

This shows that you are overly assertive. Egoistic. If you try to read without the urge to comment/argue, you would be more fair.

Somebody else has written an article, I have given my opinion, you give your opinion, don't point things at me. You are not my mentor. And why are you justifying.

Just a tip for an old guy, justification should be in a way to show pros of your viewpoint not cons of others.

So stop preaching and just give opinions. Do remember the tip.

Ha ha ha...Simply go find a toilet and then unload your brain into it...then flush it....it's that easy.

I am sure if I do that, it will find you and Brian sleeping there comfortably in the shit.

This voodoo shit thinks that whatever he says should be accepted.

And then he ends up with such a stupid remark.

The stupid turning statement and then this flower thing shows that he is a hypocrite. He loves to throw flowery words and then gets trapped.

For flowery language you don't need insight. Just an art to say it.

Get some brass balls. oh no not from brian or his dog again. I knew you might have turned and in your turning might have seen balls. he he he

Sounds like cognitive dissonance. good article Brain.

this might be of some interest to you -

http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm


steve

Some of the comments on this post don't need or deserve a response by me. They speak for themselves. And readers of this blog can decide for themselves whether crudity, namecalling, and such make a commenter more or less credible.

I look upon comments to my blogs as I would a face-to-face conversation. If somebody genuinely wants to have an honest, open, sincere talk with me, I'll sit down and chat away.

But if they just want to rant, and it seems evident that they are unwilling or unable to clearly hear what I'm saying in reply, then I've got better things to do.

Understand: this isn't personal. It's practical. Most Sundays I go out to coffee with friends. Sometimes the discussions get really heated.

I love my coffee house buddies, yet on the rare occasions when their conversation degenerates into screaming at each other, I get up, say my goodbyes, and go do something else.

A few responses to recent comments do seem appropriate:

(1) I always use my real name and email address on the Internet. I don't have any hidden identities ("Brian Hines" is already enough of an enigma to me).

(2) Concerning intuitive whispers, I agree with the commenter who said that our decision to embrace a religion or spiritual path is based on what that inner voice tells us: "Yes, have faith in this. Follow it."

So why shouldn't we trust that same voice when it later tells us: "Here's an update based on more knowledge. Don't have faith in this. Follow another way"?

Thanks to Steven for passing on the cognitive dissonance link:
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

This seems to be key to understanding why we're more likely to believe something new, than distrust something old--even when the old knowing appears to be false.

The mind resists change. It loves habit. Old ways of thinking die hard. Tradition endures. Cognitive dissonance explains why people hold onto beliefs so strongly. We get invested in them and feel like we'll lose out if we let old ideas go.

Thats true that we resist changes as we are uncertain of the things that are in store if we change. So out of insecurity we want to remain with the beliefs that may not be our own but due to the environment we live in.

For example a child who is brought up by devout christians, would not be ready to accept any other religion or path. Similarly a child in a "Non existant God" culture would just laugh away on god fearing people.

Before deciding anything, a person should try to understand himself, his personality traits. He needs to make out actually what he is looking for. Just because other people are following something doesn't mean that he has to follow the same.

No two people are alike. So you have to take decisions for yourself. And once you know what suits you, follow it. Alignment to an idea shouldn't be out of the need to gain something undefined. Even if, walking on it brings contentment and peace, its good.

I see pain and suffering in this world for both - people who believe in God and those who don't believe in God. This is also a fact that not all the people who do not believe in God are suffering. They are doing well.

So the thing that really matters is to do things that really mean to one's life and not stick to something with which one can not identify. Even if we try and try real hard we will fail as that is not what we intend to do.

This is in response to something hotsparc wrote:

"...a child who is brought up by devout christians, would not be ready to accept any other religion or path."

I can definitely attest to the trueness of this statement...at least for me. I was raised in a very devout Christian home. I truly believed the dogma with every fiber of my being. I would have a few questions now and then--mostly just uneasy feelings with various teachings not quite sitting well within me--but they would usually be burned away in the fervor (fever?) of ecclesiastical exuberance. I was on the right path to the eternal bliss of heaven. Other religions did not have the enlightenment that I was sure of.

Yet, even in this state of ecstasy, there was an undercurrent of fear--fear of going to hell, fear of God's punishment, fear of missing the rapture and the 2nd coming of Christ. Looking at other beliefs would surely corrupt the pureness of my heart and leave me in danger of eternal damnation.

Eventually, I grew a little older, went to college, discussed the meaning of life with many different people who had many different views of life. I started wondering, "What makes me so sure that I am the one who is right?" So many times, teachings in the church would not seem quite right. I couldn't quite explain what was "wrong" but there was definitely a feeling of wrongness when I would listen to the teachings of hell-fire, damnation, and that it was my job to save the world. That, in turn, would lead to feelings of frustration and being a bit overwhelmed with the seeming futileness of "saving the world".

More time passed. More discussions, more studying, more exploration, more self-searching. I came to the realization that I did not believe everything I had been taught growing up. I had always believed in a "personal relationship with God", but eventually "decided" that I could, and had, developed my own slightly unique view of what that meant. I realized that even in a single church, there would be many different versions of what this meant. So, I wondered, how could "the Church" be so completely authoritarian on what that relationship SHOULD be? So, I continued developing the "church of me"--refining what I believed, questioning what I believed, sometimes rearranging what I believed. I realized that there would be those in the "christian" world (yes, I mean to have it with a lower case 'c') who would say I had "backslidden" and was bordering on heresy. But, even with that knowledge, I felt less fear than I had in a very long time.

And then I fell in love with someone who believed very little of what I was raised with. This rattled me a little bit. We got into discussions, and one thing that always seemed to come up was his comment: "Hell is something that was made up by the church to manipulate the masses." And as much as I agreed with him, my old, old fears resurfaced and I would have to change the subject. I was afraid to even THINK of the POSSIBILITY of this statement being true. Hell was one of the cornerstones of what I was raised with. If it wasn't true, what would happen to the rest of the ediface that I had built around it? So, the fear of eternal separation from God reappeared inside of me. It would subside from time to time, but then that same statement would be made, or "There is no hell," would be said, and my stomach would clench a bit and I'd change the subject.

Then one day, I was home alone, making green chili for the next day. I was listening to the radio (NPR's "This American Life"). The theme that week was "Heretics". They told a story of a man who was raised in a church and belief system very similar to how I was raised. It also told how he had been declared--OFFICIALLY declared--a heretic by pastors and organizations that just a short while before had venerated him for being such a powerful leader and bringer of truth.

His heretical revelation?
"There is no Hell."

The story was told in vocabulary and terms that I had grown up with. It resonated with every logical, emotional, spiritual fiber that I had. All the pieces of what I believed, had listened to, and discussed solidified and clicked into place giving me a picture that was clearer than any I'd had in awhile. So, there I am, chopping onions and potatoes and sobbing. It was an interesting sob: deep, deep, deep, but without pain. There was actually a thread of laughter, humor, and lightness in that sob. But it was still deep and gut-wrenching with the realization of truth.

One cornerstone had been pulverized in that hour. Somehow, my buildings of belief, my "church of me", had not come crashing down around me. Rather, it had taken on quite a new glow and solidness. And that undercurrent of fear was mostly gone!

Mostly? Crap. Now what?

I keep hearing and seeing "there is no God". That statement is another one that I'm afraid to look at squarely in the face. Someday, when it's time, when I get the guts to do it... As scary as this thought is to me, I'll look at it, examine it, decide where to put it in my ever evolving church of one.

And when I do...Well, at least I won't have to worry about going to hell.

:)

What you been smokin ?

Nobodies afraid to admit that stuff to themselves. And it ain't no secret. doesn't stop the seeking tho.

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