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November 11, 2005

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Got God ? --- The business of using "God" for money, power, politics, and fame.

Yes, the "God" of P.R. and his ilk can "go to hell" .... but please be sure to take all the Christians and Moslems etc. who are intolerant, self-righteous, and hateful, to hell along with their false God.

However, the real God does not need to go to hell. It is only some people who make "hell" by judging and blaming others who disagree with them. (ie: P.R., G. W. B., etc.) Hell is actually the arrogance and self-righteous wickedness of some people who think that "God" favors some folks (themselves of course), while opposing other folks. It is really people who are "going to hell", when they have such intolerance towards other people.

The so-called "God" that favors some people and opposes others, could not be the God of Love, not the God of Peace, not the God of Truth....and is really not any "God" at all. Such a God that would be so petty is only an excuse for some people to justify their religious self-righteousness and religious intolerance.

If this "God" (that so many religious and spiritual folks like to use for their various personal agendas), is really and truly the great, all-powerful, all-knowing, eternal and self-existing Supreme Being and Over-Lord that he/she/it is supposed to be, then why would such a "God" be so damn petty, intolerant, and biased, that "God" would show favor to some people and disfavor to others? Is "God" not the mother/father/source of all humanity? Is all humanity not the children and family of God?

Even more ridiculous is the self-assured notion that "God" takes any particular sides at all ... as if "God" gives a damn about how any person or people act, or what they may think or believe.

It is much more likely that "God" (being infinite) is simultaneously manifesting as each and every one of the myriad beings which populate the Universe. As such, then "God" would not stand apart from all beings, and would not be "for" or "against" any particular being, because all beings are none other than the one and only "God" itself. If "God" is opposed to any individual being or group of beings, as many self-righteous religious folks think, then "God" would be opposing him/her/itself. This does not sound like something that a supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing Supreme God-head would do.

It is much more likely that this so-called "God" is simply the underlying Unity, and the source and true nature of all manifest beings, and the intention of "God" is more along the lines of unconditional Love for each and every integral part of him/her/itself.

Bottom-line: It is better to forget about all this contentious "God" nonsense, and simply attend to striving for the liberation of all sentient beings (including oneself) from the suffering of ignorance, illusion, and samsara.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is the final chapter of "The Mysterious Stranger" by Mark Twain, which may shed some light upon this matter. It is also suggested that one go and read the entire short-story at:

http://www.litrix.com/mstrange/mstra001.htm

The Mysterious Stranger --- by Mark Twain

Chapter 11:

For as much as a year Satan continued these visits, but at last he came less often, and then for a long time he did not come at all. This always made me lonely and melancholy. I felt that he was losing interest in our tiny world and might at any time abandon his visits entirely. When one day he finally came to me I was overjoyed, but only for a little while. He had come to say good-by, he told me, and for the last time. He had investigations and undertakings in other corners of the universe, he said, that would keep him busy for a longer period than I could wait for his return.

"And you are going away, and will not come back any more?"

"Yes," he said. "We have comraded long together, and it has been pleasant--pleasant for both; but I must go now, and we shall not see each other any more."

"In this life, Satan, but in another? We shall meet in another, surely?"

Then, all tranquilly and soberly, he made the strange answer, "There is no other."

A subtle influence blew upon my spirit from his, bringing with it a vague, dim, but blessed and hopeful feeling that the incredible words might be true--even must be true.

"Have you never suspected this, Theodor?"

"No. How could I? But if it can only be true--"

"It is true."

A gust of thankfulness rose in my breast, but a doubt checked it before it could issue in words, and I said, "But--but--we have seen that future life--seen it in its actuality, and so--"

"It was a vision--it had no existence."

I could hardly breathe for the great hope that was struggling in me. "A vision?--a vi--"

"Life itself is only a vision, a dream."

It was electrical. By God! I had had that very thought a thousand times in my musings!

"Nothing exists; all is a dream. God--man--the world--the sun, the moon, the wilderness of stars--a dream, all a dream; they have no existence. Nothing exists save empty space--and you!"

"I!"

"And you are not you--you have no body, no blood, no bones, you are but a thought. I myself have no existence; I am but a dream--your dream, creature of your imagination. In a moment you will have realized this, then you will banish me from your visions and I shall dissolve into the nothingness out of which you made me....

"I am perishing already--I am failing--I am passing away. In a little while you will be alone in shoreless space, to wander its limitless solitudes without friend or comrade forever--for you will remain a thought, the only existent thought, and by your nature inextinguishable, indestructible. But I, your poor servant, have revealed you to yourself and set you free. Dream other dreams, and better!

"Strange! that you should not have suspected years ago--centuries, ages, eons, ago!--for you have existed, companionless, through all the eternities. Strange, indeed, that you should not have suspected that your universe and its contents were only dreams, visions, fiction! Strange, because they are so frankly and hysterically insane--like all dreams: a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice and invented hell--mouths mercy and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules, and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!...

"You perceive, now, that these things are all impossible except in a dream. You perceive that they are pure and puerile insanities, the silly creations of an imagination that is not conscious of its freaks--in a word, that they are a dream, and you the maker of it. The dream-marks are all present; you should have recognized them earlier.

"It is true, that which I have revealed to you; there is no God, no universe, no human race, no earthly life, no heaven, no hell. It is all a dream--a grotesque and foolish dream. Nothing exists but you. And you are but a thought--a vagrant thought, a useless thought, a homeless thought, wandering forlorn among the empty eternities!"

He vanished, and left me appalled; for I knew, and realized, that all he had said was true.

(the end)

Your blog rules. There aren't enough unapologetic atheistic voices out there.

http://www.jackasseryblogger.blogspot.com

You assume there is not a God because of the overwhelming presence of suffering and seeming injustice in the world. Perhaps you have overlooked some important factors that influence this, though, because you may find that your curses are misdirected. Why do children die and innocent people suffer? Why does prosperity seem to fall on undeserving people and vice versa? Your concern is not uncommon. John Stott said “the fact of suffering undoubtedly constitutes the single greatest challenge to the Christian faith, and has been in every generation.” It is not surprising, then, that you reject God out of anger over this.

A philosopher named Epicurus theorized that “either God wants to abolish evil and cannot, or he can but does not want to, or he cannot and does not want to. If he wants to but cannot, he is impotent. If he can and does not want to, he is wicked. But if God both can and wants to abolish evil, then how comes evil in the world?” I believe because of my conviction that God does have the power to accomplish this and does want to, and I ask that you assume this for the purpose of my explanation. Epicurus assumes that this is impossible for this condition and evil to coexist, but the consideration of free will allows for it. If God were to abolish free will in man, if He were to take away your ability to choose your unchurched status, then yes, He could easily do away with evil entirely. The more God interferes, however, to remove all suffering is one more degree of free will that He takes away.

We were created as beings of choice, to have complete and unhindered free will. Because of this feature of our humanity, man had the opportunity to rebel against God, which he did, and, thus, sin entered the world. Since the beginning of humanity, all throughout history, and even today it is not uncontested that man has free will. The fact is that we have chosen our state of suffering. Peter Kreeft said that “once God chose to create human beings with free will, then it was up to them, rather than to God, as to whether there was sin or not. That’s what free will means.” God gave that choice, to live in righteousness or sin then and He does now. He wants genuine worship, true devotion and belief, not forced obedience out of robots of a creation. If we had no free will we would not be able to choose love over hatred, happiness or sadness, good over evil. In opposition to your stance, then, the existence of evil and suffering proves the existence of a good God. How do you even know what evil is without knowing what good is?

Furthermore, the existence of evil proves God’s extreme mercy and grace. Because of the fact that God cares so much for the suffering, He made it possible for anyone, even those who curse Him, to escape it. He suffered Himself, in human form, with all the complications of a sinful world. He starved, suffered from poverty, cold, heat, dehydration, beatings, hostility, treachery, and even brutal death. Why? To make a way for you. By choosing to believe, all can find hope in hardship and look to the expectation that the suffering is temporary and the reward for perseverance and endurance is eternal. It was a sheer act of mercy that God made us susceptible to death so that we do not have to endure this world forever. Your curses belong to Satan, then, the source of evil who deceived man into choosing sin over God. God is not the reason for suffering; you are through the deception of Satan. I would encourage you to educate yourself on the depths of Jesus Christ more. You seem very knowledgeable about several forms of religion, but your conception of Christianity is inaccurate and raw in form.

You can look within yourself for the rest of your life and continually find yourself disappointed and questioning. Or you can recognize the possibility of God and replace all despair with hope. God does not play favorites and only choose some people, people play naïve and only some choose God. It is that easy, though, all it takes is a choice, just as it did in the very beginning. Look at the world of suffering that you live in today and see the results of the rejection of God. That is what you are choosing.

U r one stupid moron. ur life must suck bad for u to insult the god that created and made u to be who u r. It's becuse if this god that have u stilling living today if u catch my drift. am sorry u feel this way about god but the internet is the last place u would want to put a dumb message like this.

Any attachment to God, considered positive or negative, pulls us in the same direction.

To: "Faith Kesselly" ---

If human beings do have freewill, then it is because it is God's will that humans do as they please. If human beings do not have freewill, then everything humans do, is all God's will and humans are not responsible.

Consequently, if human beings (such as Brian), "insult" or criticise "God", then it is either because "God" allows and accepts all to do as they please, .... Or if it is really "God" who is doing it all, then it is "God" himself who is doing the insulting and criticising of "God".

Either way, it is "moronic" to fault Brian by assuming that it is wrong to "insult" God. It is clearly God who is the one responsible in either case. Either by allowing free-will, or by being the 'doer'.

If a commentator such as "Faith" rebukes Brian for "insulting" God, then it is really "God" that "Faith" is rebuking, and not Brian. So who is the hypocritical "moron" here ?

This kind of self-righteous and hypocritical judging and rebuking of others, such as Brian, is one of the main things that give religion and "God" a bad name. As Jesus is reported to have said, "First remove the beam (log) from one's own eye, before you go rebuking others for the tiny speck in their eye." In other words, remove your own damn hypocrisy, before you go judging and rebuking others for their views.

Everyone is entitled to their own views and opinions, even if that means cursing "God". If "Faith" does not like or approve of Brian criticising and insulting "God", then don't criticise and insult Brian. Your own hypocrisy betrays you.

Bottom-line: If "God" is such a damn petty tyrant that we are not free to criticise Him/Her/It, and if "Faith" is such a damn hypocrite that she cannot respect Brian's freedom, then both "Faith" and her petty "God" are self-righteous morons.

My opinion: The only "stupid moron" with a "dumb message" that I can see here, is the one that was posted by "Faith Kesselly". In other words, self-righteous and hypocritical religious "morons" like "Faith Kesselly", really really do "suck". So go suck on this, until you respect the rights of others to curse God if they choose.


In response to Faith Kesselly’s remark, as a disciple of Christ I am disappointed to see the animosity that you showed in your response. While your reasoning may be rightly placed, your attitude is repulsive. The word Christian means “little Christ” and to be a Christian is to emulate his character and seek to be like him. How dare you treat a fellow sinner (because yes, we are all sinners) that way. You should be ashamed of your actions, and if you truly want to impact an unbeliever for the sake of God, I suggest you humble yourself and do a study on the details of Christ’s ministry. Christ did not come to condemn and to judge, he came to save. Your ministry is a far cry from what he demonstrated for the purpose of its continuation in the church. Please stop representing the name of God in the way that you do, because a hypocrite is more evil and foul than an honest unbeliever.

To “I Am That I Am,” I appreciate your honesty concerning the hypocrisy of Faith’s comment, but you have some serious flaws in your argument. You are correct that if God did not award free will to men, and there was still sin and cursing on the earth anyway, then it would follow that it is God’s own fault. That isn’t the case, though, so we can discard that possibility because of the presence of free will that we undeniably have today and all throughout the past. You quoted scripture, and your name cleverly shows your knowledge of God’s word (althought I consider it a little offensive), so you should know that even in the Bible, when God personally speaks to man, even then they chose to rebel or disobey. Cain was cursed in Genesis because his sacrifice was not adequate before God. Even when God gave him a second chance, he decided of his own volition and against the bidding of God to refuse. Make a choice today, and realize that God does not control all that you decide.

The fault that I find, then, is in your claim that since God created humans with free will, it is His fault that men act the way they do. How ridiculous. By the definition of free will God relinquishes the responsibility for the actions men make. He leaves it up to them to come to Him freely and earnestly (or not to, to their own destruction) rather than being forced to out of God’s control. Perhaps your reservation with God is your lack of taking responsibility for your actions. God gave you your own choices, and He gave Brian his own choices, so blame the person making the choices, not God. The nature of free will is that the liability lies in the hands of the doer only. God’s grace then is wide and deep for allowing salvation in spite of the poor choices that we make.

Lastly, while Faith is a hypocrite, you should not judge a religion by the practicing people of that religion. Even I am ashamed of the remarks and I am a believer. You will never find a perfect person, aside from Jesus Christ, who can follow faultlessly on a path of spirituality, regardless of what religion you choose to assess. Men are sinners. We are bound to make mistakes in our endeavors to God. Perhaps you should not be so judgmental, just as you claimed that Faith should not be, and look to the truth of the doctrines and the Bible as guidelines rather than the people who imperfectly interpret and practice them. I can promise that once you find yourself looking for faults in God you will find yourself coming up empty. I am sorry that people like Faith give Christianity a bad name, but of every virtue and every good thing in the world, there will be someone who perverts it and gives it a bad name. Please be open-minded and look past the struggling people who poorly display their good intentions. Atheism is not a mark of wisdom but a willful blindness.

I'm not sure this would be where this comment really goes, but this is where I was when the thought came to me! And this is just my thoughts on religion and a "true" believer.

A true believer is someone who can state their beliefs without insisting that everyone needs to believe the way that she does.

A true believer is not threatened by people who do not believe the way he does.

A true believer can listen to other people's beliefs without being offended or feeling attacked.

A true believer does not need to *always* have a rebuttal for other's statements.

A true believer can laugh at his own folly without giving up his beliefs.

A true believer can change her mind.

A true believer can enjoy the journey of discovery.

A true believer...is.

Reply to Kelly Morris:

Kelly Morris wrote: "...you have some serious flaws in your argument."

Reply: You judge my comments as being flawed, because you have misintrepreted my comments, and you have misunderstood the point of what was meant by my comments. The truth is that your own misinterpretations are what is "flawed".


Kelly Morris wrote: "...if God did not award free will to men,....then it would follow that it is God’s own fault. That isn’t the case though, because of the presence of free will that we undeniably have..."

Reply: This is a misintrepretation of my meaning. I did not say that man does not have free-will. The point I made was this: Even though man (apparently) does have free-will, man is not intrinsically separate from God. It is God within man, which allows man relative free-will. It is God in man which gives man the freedom to act, and to bear the consequences of his actions. Those consequences, good or bad, are simply the the fullfilling of the truth that whatever mankind does, he does only to himself. It is not God who is punishing mankind, but rather mankind who is responsible for causing good or bad consequences for and to himself. God is simply the unity of the One True Self within mankind.


Kelly Morris wrote: "...your name cleverly shows your knowledge of God’s word (althought I consider it a little offensive)..."

Reply: The name which I used was not intended to be clever. It is used simply to reveal the true nature of myself, as well as everyone. As for your being offended by my use of it, that is simply your own hang-up. I have every right to use it, because it is only written words, and more importantly, it is the truth. I have every right to use it because "I Am That I Am". If you do not like that I have the freedom and right ot use what\ever name I choose, then it is you who are being offensive by imposing your narrow-minded reaction (and judgment) upon me. In this case, I am free, and you are not. I will do as I please, and God stands on the side of Freedom and Truth. If you do not approve of that, then I suggest that you take your problem up with God, and not impose your narrow-minded judgments upon me.


Kelly Morris wrote: "....when God personally speaks to man..."

Reply: The truth of the matter is that "God" is always speaking to man, not just to and through the prophets, and not just in the Bible. God is nowhere but in the core of every being. The whole of the universe(s) is the expression of God, and everything reveals the voice of God, for those who have "eyes to see, and ears to hear".


Kelly Morris wrote: "Make a choice today, and realize that God does not control all that you decide."

Reply: Your inference and implication is unclear. I never said that God is controlling all the decisions of human beings. God is the heart and essence of all beings. God is not controlling anything. All action and re-action is relative. Whatever happens is due to necessity and destiny. The important thing is simply to remain true to the Truth in all circumstances.


Kelly Morris wrote: "The fault that I find, then, is in your claim that since God created humans with free will, it is His fault that men act the way they do."

Reply: I did not "claim" any such thing. What I tried to convey is that God is the true Self within all the apparently individual selves. It is God who has manifested as myriad beings. Therefore, it is the will of God which supports the will of man, it is God who is the giver, God who is the receiver, God who is the knower, and God who is the known. It is all the manifestation of God. If it were not, then "God" would not truly be GOD. The God that you conceive as being somehow limited and separate from man, who is not infinite and omni-present, is not worthy to be called "God". I reject all such concepts of God. The true nature of God will be only be revealed to those who unconditionally surrender all such concepts and beliefs to the Truth that is the real God.


Kelly Morris wrote: "By the definition of free will God relinquishes the responsibility for the actions men make."

Reply: This is simply duality. God is not, and cannot be separate from man. Man is but the expression and manifestation of God. The true nature and essence and source of man is God. There is nothing 'other' than God. Man is the dream, the play, the story, the dance of God.


Kelly Morris wrote: "He (God) leaves it up to them to come to Him freely and earnestly (or not to, to their own destruction)..."

Reply: Correct, except for: "...to their own destruction". Man does not suffer "destruction" because he fails to believe in or "come to" God. God is not a petty tyrant. God is infinite grace. "Destruction" is only caused by those who commit destruction. "What goes around, comes around". It is also the way of nature (ie: birth, growth, decline, and death)


Kelly Morris wrote: "... your reservation with God is your lack of taking responsibility for your actions."

Reply: I have no "reservation with God". You have misunderstood my view. Nor do I "lack taking responsibility" for my actions. Your statement and accusation is simply false. You have no knowledge this. I own everthing that I say and do. I Am That I Am. There is nothing other than That (God).


Kelly Morris wrote: "...so blame the person making the choices, not God."

Reply: There is no "person" apart from God. There is no blame either. All "choices" are simply the the drama of God manifesting as the universe and man. God is the One True Self of all. Everything and everyone belongs only to God. There is no blame. Man is the story of God, and God is the story of man. Your judgment and blame is due only to your failure to see beyond the duality of the mind.


Kelly Morris wrote: "The nature of free will is that the liability lies in the hands of the doer only."

Reply: YES... and the "doer" is none other than God....there is none other. Man is the manifestation and expression of God, and so God-man/man-God is the only "doer" there is.


Kelly Morris wrote: "While...is a hypocrite, you should not judge a religion by the practicing people of that religion."

Reply: I judge religion by every aspect of it, including its followers. Religion is a creation of man, and it is perpetuated by man. Religion is man's attempt to understand God, as well as man's attempt to find meaning in life and to cope with existence. Religion as a belief system, is not exempt from critique or judgement; and how else can religion be judged, except by judging its followers? The "followers" are the very existence of the religion.


Kelly Morris wrote: "You will never find a perfect person, aside from Jesus Christ..."

Reply: This is simply your own opinion. I absolutely disagee with such an opinion. Perfection is the true nature of every being. Jesus was a human being. Like all beings, his true nature is perfect. Like all human beings, his physical, emotional, and mental bodies are transitory. To think and to say that "Jesus Christ" was/is somehow exempt from or above the imperfection of the transitory nature of existence, is fantasy. However, the true nature, or the one true Self of all beings (including Jesus), is perfection itself. In that respect, Jesus was, and is, no different than any man.


Kelly Morris wrote: "Men are sinners."

Reply: No doubt. But that does not make them inferior to the man known as Jesus.


Kelly Morris wrote: "...you should not be so judgmental,.... and look to the truth of the doctrines and the Bible as guidelines"

Reply: Kelly Morris is also making judgements. The big difference is that I OWN my judgments and views, and I don't use "Jesus Christ" and religion, as a crutch and a self-righteous excuse. Furthermore, I don't give a damn about your "doctrines" or "the Bible". I don't need any such "guidlines". I can obtain whatever understanding I may need directly from source. I don't need books or religious doctrines, in order to abide in communion and union with God and Christ-consciousness.


Kelly Morris wrote: "...once you find yourself looking for faults in God you will find yourself coming up empty."

Reply: Your assumption is false. I find no fault in God whatsoever, nor did I indicate that I did. My criticism is with religion, not "God". I also find fault with those people such as Kelly Morris, who try to use religion and their own versions and interpretations of God, to self-righteously judge others.


Kelly Morris wrote: "Please be open-minded..."

Reply: Oh really ? Then you should practice what you preach. The fact is that most of what you have written does not indicate any such kind of "open-mindedness".


Kelly Morris wrote: "Atheism is not a mark of wisdom but a willful blindness."

Reply: ON THE CONTRARY, ATHEISM IS JUST AS VALID AS ANY THEISTIC VIEW...PERHAPS EVEN MORE SO.

(*note: I am not an specifically an Atheist or vice-versa, but I firmly support and defend Atheism's right to Reason and opinion.)

TO ASSERT THAT ATHEISM IS "not a mark of wisdom", AND IS "willful blindness", IS A CHALLENGE AGAINST REASON AND OBJECTIVITY. IT IS THIS VERY ATTITUDE WHICH BETRAYS THE SELF-RIGHTEOUS BIAS THAT FOLLWERS OF ORGANIZED RELIGIOUS DOGMA FOIST UPON THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES.

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