Previously I've written:
"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him!" Buddhists are fond of saying. And not just Buddha: also Jesus, Mohammed, Moses, Lao Tzu, Guru Nanak, every spiritual teacher. And not just these people are to be killed: also the concepts that comprise the shell of their teachings. For only then can the kernel of truth be released.
But is this really the case? Below you can read an email message from a person in the United Kingdom who argues otherwise. He, like me, is an initiate of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, also known as "Sant Mat." The "satsangs" mentioned in his message are meetings of this group.
These are special words, unfamiliar to most people. But the questions being explored here are universal. To what extent does an evolving skeptic or agnostic need to disassociate from a religious organization to which he or she currently belongs? Can you discern grains of truth anywhere you look and find a way to separate them from ritualistic, dogmatic, fundamentalist chaff?
If you're a questioning Christian and want to relate this message to your own experience, you could substitute "church" for "satsang," "Christianity" for "Sant Mat," "Christians" for "satsangis," and so on. For the issues discussed below are common to anyone who feels an urge to move beyond the boundaries of a well-defined faith.
In Zen master Seung Sahn's book "Dropping Ashes on the Buddha" he tells a student:
Throw away teaching, throw away everything. If you say you are not attached to methods of practice, this is being attached to method. If you cut off your attachment, then your words ("the real 'I' functions without thinking or talking") are not necessary.
And also:
You say that you have no faith in your Buddha-nature. I too have no faith in my Buddha-nature. And I have no faith in Buddha or God or anything. If you have no faith, you must completely have no faith. You must not believe in anything at all...But when you see red, there is red; when you see white, there is only white. You must let go of both faith and non-faith. Things are only as they are.
Seung Sahn is fond of saying things like "If you understand yourself, I will hit you thirty times. And if you don't understand yourself, I will still hit you thirty times." When asked "Why?" he will say, "It is very cold today."
Here's a weather report from my British correspondent:
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For a sceptic and relative agnostic, I find my currently developing point of view somewhat surprising in that it is along the lines of 'apologist' such as Irenaeus against the Gnostics (where previously I would have simply taken the Gnostic radical stance--period).
The reasons for this are both personal/subjective and philosophical and involve a number of questions for your perusal:
Satsang is found to be an enjoyable social experience and occasional truly insightful event. Satsangis that I am in contact with are far from being the dogma-driven faithful that some blog correspondents suggest, but are caring, compassionate, deeply thoughtful and sceptical-minded yet devoted people.
Some people's simple love for and faith in the Master I find deeply moving even if my own is coming from a somewhat different perspective. I thus feel deeply moved to protect the faith of the gentle and the simple (and I say that without any trace of superiority or sophistication whatsoever!).
Skeptics with heart (such as I would call you) are great fellow travellers in mystery and inner journeying, but with some critics I find their attitude unkind, rude, confrontational and hostile. This makes me adopt the 'apologist' guise for RSSB as I do not feel such attitudes get us anywhere.
Put it this way: with Christians who are kind and loving I am happy to discuss the love of Christ and the saints, but with Christians who tell me I will burn in hell fire then I go on the offence and question the historical validity of the gospels and Jesus.
Meditation is a deeply connective 'activity' (in the sense of greater expansiveness, release from mental overactivity, empathy, connectedness with nature, etc.) and is as profound as any other school I have sampled pre-Sant Mat (zazen, self-enquiry, visualisation).
The satsang centres being established by the Master are truly a haven for contemplation, selfless service and rest from wordly overactivity; and in this regard truly function as ashrams. I speak from personal experience of attending the UK centre regularly for satsang.
Questions:
Are we necessarily any better off without a framework of faith and a community of faith within which to pitch our tent? We can still hold some of our unorthodox stances within the 'organisation' much as Valentinus and Basilides did within the developing Catholic church.
Without some basic 'working hypotheses' such as the existence of real spiritual masters for guidance, fellow travellersâ support, and mutual loveâare we not left primarily with our own minds as a somewhat dodgy pseudo-guru? It would be nice to think we could simply plug into our 'higher self' unobstructed and get all the clear guidance we need, but is this true?
Is there really any point in 'shopping around' for something or someone presumed to be better than Sant Mat? Paul Brunton (who I respect enormously) was of the opinion that we as seekers are better off finding and sticking to one 'path' or 'teaching' and engaging with all it has to offer to the max. From a Sant Mat view this means meditation, seva, satsang, guru bhakti to the best of our capacity.
No matter if our faith is rocky or we are sceptical of the perfect masterâs theology. Can we simply engage the path on its own terms without picking it apart with a postmodern critical apparatus? (that is not applicable in many ways to a pre-modern, transrational scheme like Sant Mat).
We could spend the rest of our life bed-hopping from one faith and philosophy to the next. We could try on zazen until our postmodern intellectual cleverness finds all the flaws and pitfalls and rejects it, thus plunging us back to square one. We could find (to us) a more internally consistent, theology free system such as Advaita and then find it dismaying that it does not engage our moral dimension or need for highfalutin mythology that Sant Mat provides.
Truly we can shop around in the spiritual supermarket to our hearts content. There is really a smorgasbord of sages, teachings, doctrines and meditation methods enough for a lifetime.
Do we then plump for the extreme critique of a U.G. Krishnamurti or the extreme faith of a Saint Francis?
There is really no fault-free teaching, organisation, guru or disciples on this earth.
I find sufficient philosophical, moral and mystical integrity within RSSB to continue to engage with it as a sceptical believer. It is easy to knock organisations and leaders as they cannot ever do anything right in the eyes of the scepticali. The fact is that RSSB provides structure and framework and support for many seekers who would otherwise be lost at sea.
It is for these reasons that I have adopted some apologist motivations as a counter check to my own unbridled scepticism and cynicism.
Lastly, in your email message to me you hit the nail on the head about the nature of any disagreements or agreements. They really are simply because we are who we are and 'others' are who they are.
The point I keep labouring on your Church of the Churchless blog to some of the more vociferous RSSB critics is why on earth can we not meet as students of a thousand schools, a la the Chinese saying, and share our journey with mutual respect, tolerance, even love!
Is that really asking too much in a world torn apart by sectarian strife and dogma-driven hatred? Can we not hold our point of view, but yet recognise that it is so much smoke on the wind, here today and gone tomorrow as it is replaced by experience and hence further views?
It is not good to simply try to throw out all of Sant Mat as some of the extreme critics do, as that really is the baby with the bath water scenario. Obviously individuals are at liberty to do this, but those interested in 'getting at' anything real and seeking consensus and commonality amongst the plurality of spiritual paths/gurus, would be loath to junk any whole tradition and its insights.
Why not take insights where we find them and from whom we find them: from Shamanism, Roman Catholicism, Wicca and paganism, from science, psychology, sociology and so on and on. The old lady in the queue for the supermarket or the old fella leaning on the farmerâs gate can be a treasure trove of wisdom, if we but listen!
Hope you find these musings enjoyable and interesting.
Warm regards to you and I will continue to enjoy your postings.
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Hi,
If you're interested in spiritual freedom, having meaningful personal spiritual experiences and understanding and designing your own spiritual path to God, while having the availability, on your terms (you have to request guidance and your choice to accept or reject it is respected and expected), of a dependable personal spiritual guide that can go with you as far as you want, then check out www.eckankar.org. While there, find out about the spiritual exercise HU. It's a technique you can use to enhance any experience. If you're interested, there are ECKists in more than 110 countries who are willing to help you learn more, but we don't push it. So, you will have to ask and let us how we can serve you. There are groups in Salem and other areas of Oregon. If I can be of service, my name is John Marikos and I'm in the phone book.
Posted by: if you're interested in spiritual freedom... | November 03, 2005 at 04:41 PM
John, thanks for the advice. I'm sure you sincerely believe in your chosen path, but Eckankar would be just about the last place I'd look for spiritual freedom.
If it works for you, great. However, I advise that anyone considering Eckankar persuse such sites as this: http://www.angelfire.com/hi2/eckankarsurvivors/
It doesn't bother me so much that Eckankar is a "cult." That word can be applied to lots of spiritual groups. But Eckankar was founded by a plagiarist, Paul Twitchell, so that makes it a dishonest cult, in my opinion.
Check out David Lane's Eckankar plagiarism page for clear evidence that Twitchell borrowed his teachings from others without attribution:
http://vclass.mtsac.edu:930/phil/center.htm
If anyone wants to join a group with that kind of history, be my guest. It's not for me, though.
Posted by: Brian | November 04, 2005 at 10:16 AM
Well, Brian, I can't speak for Paul Twitchell, but I can tell you that I and tens of thousands of people from all walks of life, from all religious backgrounds, from all ages, from all cultures are having meaningful spiritual experiences that are leading to greater spiritual understanding and application of spiritual principles in our lives. I can also tell you that I remember studying the ECKANKAR teachings many thousands of years ago, long before any of the writings that are around now existed, and they are the same as I'm experiencing now. So who is borrowing from whom. ECKANKAR is based on knowing and experiencing. Skepticism is healthy and encouraged in ECKANKAR as a step towards gaining personal proof. For those who are concerned about Brian's comments, take a look at http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html#compiler and make up your own mind. Try some of the spiritual exercises and see what they do for you.
What I like about ECKANKAR is that I do have a Western mind, as described in one of the postings at this site. I came to the teachings of ECKANKAR through an understanding of nuclear physics and a strong, determined search for a religious/spiritual teaching that matched what I already knew to be true. And I wanted to expand that understanding. That was more than 32 years ago and I'm still learning, I'm still growing, I'm loving my Western life more every day, I constantly gain understanding of how I cause things to occur in my life and how I can fix or prevent those that are not so pleasant. I gain insights without the slow, plodding, time-eating, ultra dependent rigor of the logical thinking process. And when I get those insights I can see the logic of them--how they fit into the greater whole. Logical thinking is wonderful and has its place, but it won't gain you the highest spiritual heavens. That's because sooner or later the tool that is the mind drops away with everything else and all that is left is Soul, a divine expression of God's love. Soul is capable of being a coworker with God and as such has no limitations, if it can only learn more of its nature. ECKANKAR has been showing me how to make use of my Soul abilities. That in itself makes for a very fulfilling life. What I also like about ECKANKAR is that I have the benefit of a highly qualified spiritual guide--the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master--someone who has thoroughly explored the spiritual worlds and deals with everyday life like the rest of us. The Mahanta aspect of him as no limitations, unlike the human aspect. So it can guide me, with my permission, according to my needs and understandings and abilities. The respect, the trust, the spiritual freedom, the divine love, the good advice--sometimes followed and sometimes not, the comfort of a friend who lives the truth that Soul equals Soul--all of this and more have been a part of my ongoing relationship with the Mahanta, the Living ECK Master. And I haven't had to be a vegetarian or dress funny or do really bizarre things. I'm just a regular guy trying to learn how to serve all life better, one step at a time. And I'm doing it my way, the best way for me at any given moment.
What's really wonderful to me is that there are billions of people on this planet and they are all doing it their way--experiencing God in a way that they can accept at this time. If they're happy, they will continue as they have. If they're not, someday they will move on to find something that works better for them. If you are one of them, I wish you the best in whatever you choose. If you're happy where you are--wonderful--something is working for you. Those of you who would like to try something new, I give you the love song to God, the HU. HU is an ancient name for God. The HU has the ability to make you more and more aware of yourself as Soul and more aware of God and ITs heavens. You close your eyes, remember a moment when you experienced wonderful love, inhale gently and while letting your breath out you sing HUUUUUUUU (with the long vowel sound of the letter u) until it's comfortable to stop. Then you do that again and again for about 15 to 20 minutes, watching the screen of your mind, and later, the experiences in your life that follow. I don't know what you will experience, because we are all unique in our lifetimes of experiences. But if you stick with it, you may see something you wouldn't want to miss. Have fun. John
Posted by: John Marikos | November 04, 2005 at 03:09 PM
I just spotted the way these comments are going and thought I'd mention that I've recently got a book from the local library called 'Exploring New Religions' by George Chryssides. It looks some of the many New Religious Movements (NRMs) that have sprung up over the last few decades. Some are what would be called 'cults', others 'sects'. I haven't started reading it yet, but from the Introduction it looks like it will be pretty interesting reading. Just thought I'd mention it!
Posted by: Paul | November 07, 2005 at 08:18 AM
secret knowledge of music throughout the ages baby
Posted by: j j | August 11, 2013 at 01:44 PM
"...........but I can tell you that I and tens of thousands of people from all walks of life, from all religious backgrounds, from all ages, from all cultures are having meaningful spiritual experiences that are leading to greater spiritual understanding and application of spiritual principles in our lives."
---Notice the words, "meaningful" and "greater" being used with spiritual understanding. When the 'understanding need' of the mind goes into the spiritual realm, it goes relative. Nothing wrong with the relative, it's just another part of searching and seeking.
Posted by: Roger | August 12, 2013 at 10:14 AM