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August 01, 2005


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Simply Beautiful ... but just who is doing the walking, and who is being walked ? ... Is the dog the one being walked, or is the dog walking one ? ... or perhaps both 'the one who walks', and 'the one who is being walked', are but two ripples on that stream of consciousness as it flows down from the Mountains of Peace on its way towards the Sea of Love.

Shabd Yoga is NOT Kundalini Yoga,

At the end of the day this website is about Surat Shabd Yoga, or the "science" of the spiritual Sound Current, or Audible Life Stream. There has been some important misinformation on the internet. Surat Shabd Yoga is NOT the same as Kundalini Yoga. The reason for this misunderstanding appears to be the following claim.

It would seem that the Self-Realization Fellowship has exactly the same knowledge concerning the inner sounds as Shabd Yoga in its first initiation. It is not clear whether this includes the key sights, and the specific colours of each Region. Whether this is true, or not makes no difference because there are copies of the Spiritual Regions in the lower planes, or worlds of Being. In other words, such replicas have been interpreted as tricks of the Negative Power in order to keep the soul going upwards to the true Regions. Professor Puri throws light on all this in Mysticism; The Spiritual Path. Vol II, and elsewhere.

Unlike Kundalini Yoga, Shabd Yoga does not involve breathing practices, or special physical postures (except for Bhajan). It should not be confused with Nada Yoga which is the Vedic path of inner Sounds of the lower intermediate planes of the Astral Region. In Shabd Yoga there are five major Sounds, and an infinite number of inferior ones.

Moreover, there is no concentration on the lower psychic centres, or chakras. Emphasis is purely on the Third Eye, and nowhere else.

Since we are dealing with super-dynamic forces it is NOT absolutely necessary for the Kundalini to be awakened to achieve real spirtual enlightenment. Infact, Sant Mat literature clearly indicates that those who pratice it only reach the pure levels of the Astral Region, and can go no further unless they use the Sound Method of Shabd Yoga.

Some have said that there are many references to Shabd Yoga being similiar if not identical to Kundalini Yoga in the Adi Granth Saheb. Unfortunately for them this is incorrect as there are only about FIVE references to Kundalini itself in this massive text!!!

Robert, I'm not sure how your comment relates to this post. But I'll leave it where it is so I can comment on your comment.

It's not true that this website (more accurately, weblog) is about Surat Shabd Yoga. That's just a word, or three words actually. I write about Surat Shabd Yoga, a.k.a. Sant Mat, a.k.a. Radha Soami Satsang Beas, because that's the "church" I'm most familiar with.

As I've noted before, if I were moving toward churchlessness from being a Catholic, then I'd be writing about how Catholicism relates to my new "unfaith." So while some visitors to this weblog are interested in debating the pros and cons of Surat Shabd Yoga, that really isn't my main focus.

I'm much more interested in the broader issue of whether spirituality should be, or can be, confined within the bounds of a defined faith. Or, do you have to break those bounds to achieve genuine self- or god-realization?

Personally, I spend zero percent of my day thinking about questions such as whether Surat Shabd Yoga is the same as, or better than, Kundalini Yoga. Questions like that are better addressed in another forum, though I don't mind your bringing them up. They just don't interest me.

I'm concerned with how any spiritual practice relates to reality. I'm enough of a Platonist to believe that "reality" isn't just a word but, well, a reality. I want to know it. I don't want to know only words--thoughts disconnected from real reality--which was my main theme in this post.

Robert Searle wrote: "At the end of the day this website is about Surat Shabd Yoga, or the "science" of the spiritual Sound Current, or Audible Life Stream."

Response: Incorrect. I think that apparently you have a very mistaken idea about the general orientation of this weblog site. To my knowledge, this weblog is NOT at all specifically about "Surat Shab Yoga". It is alright to post various views and comments about the various issues mentioned in this site, but please understand that the site is not dedicated solely to Sant Mat, Radha Soami, or "Surat Shab Yoga". Please do not presume or act as if it is, because that may give some new readers a wrong impression. Please read the section titled: "Basics of our faithless faith" which is under the Categories menu.

Robert Searle wrote: "...some important misinformation on the internet... Surat Shabd Yoga ...It would seem that the Self-Realization Fellowship ... Spiritual Regions ... lower planes ... tricks ... to keep the soul going upwards ... breathing practices... intermediate planes...inferior ones... Sant Mat literature ... indicates ... Shabd Yoga ... references to Shabd Yoga ... in the Adi Granth Saheb ... references to Kundalini..." etc.

Response: What is the point or necessity of posting all of this nit-picking argumentation, for and against various concepts and practices related to differences between kundalini yoga and sant mat ? Who cares what the differences are ? Mabe you do, but not folks who are centered and proceeding along their chosen paths. Furthermore, if one has realized one's true and essential nature, which is referred to as Self-knowledge (atma-jnana), then none of this mind-boggling, hair-splitting, spiritual-intellectual speculative foolishness is necessary or productive. If you yourself prefer and choose to practice "shabda yoga", then do so. But why attempt to argue about other spiritual practices and/or terminology? ... Well the answer to that, is simply that you have not fundamentally understood who YOU yourself are. When such Self-knowledge is finally discovered, awakened, and realized, then there will be no further need for you to indulge in controversy, philosophical argumentation, speculation, or adherence to forms of spiritual dogma.

Note: The author of this comment has absolutely nothing to do with the organization, teachings, and practices of the "Self Realization Fellowship", or the "Radha Soami Satsang". I personally would not recommend any involvment with either group or their practices. So please don't bother trying to identify me with that, or any other organization, group, or practice.

Post Script:

I must defer to Brian in all matters related to what he considers to be the primary focus of this site.

In the beginning of my visitations and the comments which I posted here, I occasionally discussed my opinions about the pros and cons of RSSB, of which I was once affiliated. However, once I made my position clear, I basically ceased further discussion about the RSSB topic. I have noticed that Brian does occasionally bring up references to Sant Mat and RSS from time to time, but usually only to make some point about another topic.

I appreciate Brian's open-mindedness and willingness to go further than the confines of established belief and faith. I am reminded of the Bob Dylan lyrics: "...leave those stepping-stones behind, they will not follow you..." I see all of these traditions, religions, philosphies, beliefs, practices, and forms as being "stepping-stones". When one crosses the stream of life, one uses such stepping-stones to move ahead. But one does not linger too long on any one stepping-stone. For if they do, they will not be able to cross the stream to the 'other shore' until they do "leave those stepping stones behind".

So that is the choice: Either we remain content standing upon one particular stepping-stone, or we move on and make the crossing to other shore, the ultimate goal.

We cannot have it both ways. (for God is a jealous God.)

As the Bible says: (1 Corinthians 13)

"... but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass darkly; but then face to face; now I know in part; but then shall I know, even as also I am known."

Who Am I? said:

"Simply Beautiful ... but just who is doing the walking, and who is being walked ? ... "

My answer:

I am.

(And I'm only posting this right now because it's funny...to me. And it flows so well from my previous post on the previous topic! So, I guess, in a way...I'm teasing Who Am I? No offense intended, though. Just my goofy way of looking at life!)

Dear Brian,
Thank you for your initial comments, and those made by others. I am glad you take a catholic attitude so to speak towards all things spiritual. Yet, you must realize that the studying, and more importantly the experiencing of various spiritual practices is a vast involved subject which no one can fully, or properly undertake. There a terrific number of mystical groups around such as the Azeemia Foundation, the Subud Brotherhood, Sokka Gakkai International, Mahikhari, Sultan Bahu Trust, Aurobindos Integral Yoga, etcetera, etcetera...

Incidently,I am not just an intellectual as I like you believe in direct contact with other dimensional realities. Moreover, I have had a number of experiences which cannot be totally understood by the mind. Some of it is believable, some of it unbelievable by most people standards! However, I prefer to keep quiet on such matters...for obvious reasons but clearly there is more to the universe than meets the eye!!

I believe Babaji (or better still Bhaiji)Gurinder Singh is into computers (!!!)I wonder what he thinks of this site..the mind boggles. Maybe he takes a peak at it now, and again!! You never know!

Brian, Thanks for recommending the book "Open Mind Open Heart." I found the full text online at http://www.centeringprayer.com/archives.htm and look forward to adding it to my library.

Hi Brian. This post seems to have gone all stream of consciousness so I wanted to throw a couple things in here. First of all, I look at your site as often as I can because I absolutely love the things that are here to think about. You're an awesome writer. Sometimes I feel like I'm breaking into a friend's diary, only to find that others have been there before me, scrawling commentary onto the margins. How fun!

Also, I just started reading your new book and have been thinking all week about the part you wrote on "subtraction." I love this concept. So, now, along with trying to subtract pounds, I'm thinking about ways I can subtract mental baggage and unnecessary thoughts too. Maybe I can lose a few pounds on the astral plane?

The image that came to mind when thinking of subtraction was of a soul leaving the body at the time of death. Now that seems like the ultimate subtraction!

For me, meditation has helped me stay positive, focused, and relaxed.

I really enjoy your discussions about various ways to God realization. While I want to believe what the RS gurus say, for me, this is like undertaking a science project. I think it's good science to remain skeptical about all that.

Robert wrote quite a bit above about various planetary levels and duplicates and the secret vortexes of Kal. Seems like I read someplace that our planet and world is a reflection of the real universe -- each world a reflection of the one above. Perhaps our bureaucratic 3-part NCR paper is our planet's reflection of God's duplicates and triplicates of various planes within? I guess I won't know for sure until I've been picked up by the cosmos and am seriously hitchhiking through the universe.

Keep up the great work.

P.S. to Robert - Glad to hear things are going so well for you. I like to ask people with successful meditation/god realization experiences to "please say 'hi' to the radiant form for me!"

To GM:

It is is not clear why GM replied to my comment which I made specifically to Brian, in response to his Blog post. My comment which was directed only to Brian, began with: "Simply Beautiful....etc". My comment to Brian, was not directed towards or about GM, so GM's "answer", is basically unrelated.

GM wrote the following:

"My answer: I am."

"(And I'm only posting this right now because it's funny...to me. And it flows so well from my previous post on the previous topic! So, I guess, in a way...I'm teasing Who Am I? No offense intended, though. Just my goofy way of looking at life!)"

To: Who Am I?

First, as I said, it was mostly from my goofy sense of humor and for my own amusement!

Second, I read "Talking with a churchless Christian" and all its comments right before I read "Support for the churchless". I was sort of responding to what you had posted there (specifically: "Why should it be necessary to call yourself anything?..." and "...Be Free! ... Free yourself from the need to define yourself spiritually, belong to a religion, or subscribe to any belief system. Everyone is perfect and complete in their own true nature, and do not need to have any outer categorical identity or self-definition. Simply Be Yourself.")

After reading your comment I thought, "You know, Who Am I is right. So, what should I say when someone--for whatever reason--asks me 'what I am'?" And the answer that immediately came to mind was, "I am."

One of the next things I read was your comment of "...who is doing the walking, and who is being walked?" So, the "logical" answer--in my brain, anyway--was, "I am."


My thought process of my sense of humor. :P

Brian, thanks for being so eclectic. But I have one thing to add:

Thomas Keating is following in the footsteps of another famous Thomas--Thomas Merton. This Trappist monk (one whom Net is actively researching on her website) is the one who brought this powerful method back into the Catholic and thus to other churches.

Thomas Merton is the same man who wrote many letters to Ethel Kennedy urging her to urge her husband RFK to help put a stop to the bomb-dropping in Viet Nam.

Always trust the source.


If that link does not work you can google:

"Thomas Merton contemplative centering prayer"

Also look up another book I have and read often "The Cloud of Unknowing" unknown author.


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