Don’t believe, just have faith

Sunday I gave a talk to my spiritual group that inspired me. So before I lose touch with my self-induced inspiration, I figured that I should capture it in a weblog posting. That way hopefully I can re-inspire myself as needed.

However, I have to admit that this whole way of thinking is at odds with what I was talking about. Namely, the absurd split between “I” and “me.” More defensible are the splits between “belief” and “faith” or “religion” and “science.” Nonetheless, we humans love to divide up reality with concepts divorced from experience, then get anxious about feeling divorced from nature, other people, God, and ourselves.

Alan Watts says that the only way to cure anxiety is to honestly recognize what’s real about the human condition. Suffering, pain, death, disease, unhappiness—yes, shit happens. This is a cold, cruel world. And also, a warm, comforting world. It’s up to us how it seems. Any alteration in the seeming, though, has to begin and end honestly.

I cited the adage that paranoids have enemies too. In his wonderful book, “The Wisdom of Insecurity” that I’m reading now,Watts says it is wrong to make the presence or absence of neurosis the touchstone of truth, and to argue that if a man’s philosophy makes him neurotic, it must be wrong. (This book was published in 1951, when people still talked about neuroses.)

So he says that it’s absurd to reason that because most atheists and agnostics are neurotic, and most simple Catholics are happy and at peace with themselves, the views of the former are false and those of the latter are true.

I liked this passage:

It is as if to say, “You say there is a fire in the basement. You are upset about it. Because you are upset, there is obviously no fire.” The agnostic, the skeptic, is neurotic, but this does not imply a false philosophy; it implies the discovery of facts to which he does not know how to adapt himself.

Like, I’m going to die. That’s a fact. I don’t know what to do about it. I think about death frequently. I don’t like the idea of it at all, especially as it applies to me, myself, and I. As Woody Allen said (more or less), “I don’t want my works of art to live on after me. I want me to live on after me.” Amen, brother.

Everyone feels insecure about something or other. Usually, lots of things and lots of others. Watts says that religious belief is one of the main ways people try to deal with anxiety. The reality of uncertainty is replaced with a belief that such-and-such is going to happen for sure in the future.

Jesus saves. The second coming is coming. Allah welcomes the faithful into paradise. The guru takes on his disciples’ karma. All beings will one day realize Buddha nature.

Whatever the belief is, it concerns a future happening or distant state of affairs, not an immediate direct experience. Yet since the present is all there is, memories of the past and anticipations of the future being part of the here and now, religious belief can’t be genuinely fulfilling.

For the future is, obviously, always around the corner. The promise of God-realization remains the carrot out of reach that we keep expecting to get with the next plodding step. So we step, and step, and step, to the end of our days. Always wanting. Never getting. Yet, says, Watts, there really is a reality that, if we could just see it, would make us say, “This is what I’ve been yearning for!” He says:

The discovery of this reality is hindered rather than helped by belief, whether one believes in God or believes in atheism. We must make here a clear distinction between belief and faith, because, in general practice, belief has come to mean a state of mind which is almost the opposite of faith. Belief, as I use the word here, is the insistence that the truth is what one would “lief” or wish it to be.

The believer will open his mind to the truth on the condition that it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception.

Recently someone emailed me a essay by a Professor Krishna of the Krishnamurti Foundation in India. I liked it a lot and quoted Krishna in my talk. It’s called “Science and Spirituality: Two Aspects of a Single Reality.” Here’s an excerpt on the subject of belief:

The other factor that has very seriously bogged down the religious quest is belief. What does belief mean to a person who is in quest of truth ? We have to regard it the same way as a scientist regards a theory. The theory is not the truth, the model is not reality. We have to do experiments to find out what is true. But when we have belief, we are merely accepting something without evidence, which has little value.

Experimentation. For me, that’s the core of spirituality. Otherwise we’re just stuck in a bog of competing religious beliefs, all of them possibly true, none of them definitively so. I don’t want to risk the fate of my eternal soul, assuming I have one, on flinging a dart blindly at the world’s board of alternative religions and pledging allegiance to whichever belief system I land on.

Currently I still align myself outwardly with the mystical tradition of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB). I’m the treasurer for our local group. I give a talk about once a month to my RSSB brothers and sisters. But last Sunday I told my audience that I’ve come to the point where I can no longer speak about belief. I can’t spout off the dogma about guru, God, karma, soul, initiation, spirit, heavenly regions, reincarnation, all that stuff.

Instead, I’m an enthusiastic cheerleader for conducting the experiment of meditation. Prof. Krishna says, “The scientific quest is to discover the order in the external world of space, time, energy and matter. The spiritual quest is to discover order in our consciousness.” That’s what meditation is for me: an attempt to find out what simple order, if any, is at the root of my chaotic, confused, complex, cacophonous consciousness.

I don’t know what that order is. I want to. That’s faith. I don’t need belief. Just faith. Borrowing a metaphor from Alan Watts, I said that faith is akin to opening up the roof of a house and putting a skylight in so you can see what’s above, while belief is akin to painting the skylight’s glass blue. It’s a little bit like reality, but not much.

After I finished my talk a friend came up and said, “You’re crazy.” I replied, “But don’t you agree with what I was saying?” “Yes,” he said, “But I’m crazy too.” Well, two’s company. What he meant, I think, is that my attitude toward spirituality and the teachings of Radha Soami Satsang Beas sounds heretical to many believers. Crazy, even.

Strangely, I’ve never felt more sane. Is this madness? Maybe. But it strikes me as a fine madness.

My friend said that the present guru of RSSB, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, is the most heretical of all. I tend to agree with him, though it has been a while since I’ve heard Gurinder Singh speak.

In my talk I quoted an anecdote that Ron Morey told me about his trip to India earlier this year. He said that Gurinder Singh said something along the lines of, “If you come to me and say that you have 100% faith, I won’t believe you. But if you say that you have doubts, now we can have a conversation.”

The faith being spoken of here really is belief. Having doubts is what I call true faith. You’re open to truth, not closed-up inside walls of illusory understanding.

Less belief, more faith. That’s my recipe for spiritual growth.

Comments

[Bob]

Brian, you hit the nail on the head!
Thanks for a great article.

I think I'll print it out so I can read it again as I'm soaring over the Atlantic at 35,000 feet in a few days!

Bob

[one hand clapping]

Church of the Churchless wrote: "...the present guru of RSSB, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, is the most heretical of all."

Response: Really ? ... I think that this statement is quite far from being true. If G. Singh Dhillon were a real genuine "heretic", he would drop his authoritarian trip and all the RSSB dogma, and would do everything necessary in order to free his disciples from their illusion, their belief, and their cult dependency, that he is or will be, their spiritual savior.

I have heard this kind of propoganda about Mr. G. Singh Dhillon as well. In my opinion, it is all just a stupid political ploy by G. Singh Dhillon supporters, trying to make G. Singh Dhillon seem more palatable to those satsangis who are a bit more independently minded. I simply don't buy it. "The Proof is in the Pudding". If he were a real heretic, there would be no doubt about it. The fact is that he likes his VIP job as a spiritual leader, and the power and glory it provides, and he is not about to blow his scene by really helping to guide his blind followers to true Liberation. If all the RSSB satsangis got liberated, he would be out of a job and he would not be needed any longer. Therefore, G. Singh Dhillon just wants to continue falsly pretending that he is a Sat-Guru, and continue having all the satsangis following and believing in him.

I have absolutely no respect for people like G. Singh Dhillon who really DO use dogma, belief, and the blind faith of their followers, to maintain their comfortable position and power as a spiritual cult leader and a little 'maharaja' in the kingdom/colony of the RSSB Dera.

Church of the Churchless wrote: "Gurinder Singh said something along the lines of, “If you come to me and say that you have 100% faith, I won’t believe you. But if you say that you have doubts, now we can have a conversation.”"

This clearly proves my point. G. Singh is not worried about the 100 per cent 'True Believers'... He is actually only concerned with convincing those who may possibly be drifing away, to remain within his fold. His so-called "conversation" is nothing but more belief re-enforcing dogma. Under the present circumstances, I would not believe anything that the man says. Why ? Because I have not heard him say anything in the past 15 years that has anything to do with any truth, reality, or real spiritual knowledge. He is only just another parrot of the Radha Soami belief system and dogma.

I am sure this comment will not be received well by the die-hard RSSB satsangis who visit this site. But then that is exactly why people become foolishly trapped in such cults and religions. Sometimes it hurts to admit the truth. But in the long run, it is always better to seek and embrace the truth, than to remain in closed-minded denial.

[Eric]

I must be crazy too! A long time ago someone I knew said "I believe that all religions have some of the truth, but that none have all of the truth." I have since lived by that mantra. I enjoy learning from many different religions, finding out what principles are the same, which ones are not. I figure that those similarities are closer to the truth than all of the differences combines. It reminds me of the movie "Enemy Mine", in which the the "alien" is reciting some of his people philosophy and the human saying "Yes, yes, I heard it all before..." The alien responded with "That is because the truth is the same everywhere."

[anil]

NEW TESTAMENT (KING JAMES VERSION) – JOHN 3
BORN AGAIN

While Jesus was in Jerusalem, a high-ranking member of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, who was himself “a ruler of the Jews” and “a master of Israel,” came to Jesus to inquire about his teachings. He recognized that Jesus was from God and wanted to hear what Jesus had to say. But Nicodemus, though not hostile to Jesus as most of the Pharisees were, did not want to make a public show of going to Jesus, so he came to Jesus “by night” and asked him questions.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? (John 3:4)
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5)

Here Jesus explains to Nicodemus that he must be “born again” if he wants to see the kingdom of God. Naturally to one who has had no spiritual experience, to be born again seems impossible. Nicodemus, though a “master” of Israel, is a man of formal religion and reacts as any worldy person would when he asks, How can this be? One cannot return to the womb and be reborn. Jesus says to Nicodemus that he is confusing physical rebirth with the spiritual rebirth that Jesus is talking about. Jesus then expresses the same concept in simpler language when he says, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” He points out that to be born of the Spirit is the new birth he speaks of; and that being born of water means born of living water, the Nectar within; so being born of the Spirit means being born of the Sound, the Word, the Holy Ghost. So the whole discussion refers to the spiritual initiation, when one is put on the path leading back to God. That, in a nutshell, is being born again.
After being born in this world we begin to grow and develop physically; and after receiving initiation, or baptism, the spiritual birth, we grow and develop spiritually.
What Jesus tells Nicodemus is consistent with what all Mystics teach: that within every one of us there is Sound and Light, which can be experienced within at the eye center. As pointed out earlier, the soul and mind have their seat, or headquarters, at the center between the two eyes, the place where all our attention is to be concentrated in order to see that Light and hear that Sound within.
When we compare the two phrases, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God” and “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” with the statement of John the Baptist when he answered the priests and Levites, “I baptize with water,” we see that he was doing exactly what Jesus later said was essential for entering God’s kingdom.
The soul has two faculties: that of seeing and that of hearing within. The Lord has kept the Sound and Light within every one of us, but as mentioned earlier, we cannot see this Light and hear this Sound within the temple of our body because of the veil of darkness between us and the Father. If we are attached to the flesh, we always take birth into the flesh again. But if we are attached to the Spirit within, then we take birth into the Spirit. When we are attached to the senses, we come back into the flesh; but attaching ourselves to the Spirit gives us birth in heaven. When we become the Spirit, the Word, only then do we get peace. That is taking a new spiritual birth.
When a Mystic initiates us into a new birth, he gives us the technique of withdrawing our soul current to the eye centre, where we can hear the Spirit, or Sound, and see that Light. It is by means of the Sound and the Light that we travel on the spiritual path back to the Father’s house. So the day of our initiation into the spiritual path is the beginning of the process of spiritual growth.

Then Jesus makes it still clearer:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

He says: What do I mean by taking birth into the Spirit? Taking birth into the Spirit means that when you are able to withdraw your consciousness to the eye center and still your mind there, you hear a Sound within yourself, and in the beginning that Sound resembles the blowing of the wind. You will not be able to know from which direction it is coming – whether it is coming from the right, whether it is coming from the left, whether it is coming from above, whether it is coming from beneath. When you are hearing that Sound and seeing that Light, then you have taken birth into the Spirit. That is taking a new spiritual birth.
To be born of the Spirit, says Jesus, is to be in touch with the Word, the Sound Current, which is within every one of us. But we cannot contact the Sound unless we are able to withdraw our consciousness to the eye center and hold our mind motionless there. In the beginning the Sound – that is, the sound of the Spirit – resembles the blowing or rushing of the wind. Though we hear it, we do not know from which direction it is coming, whether from above or below, from the left or the right. When we attach ourself to the Sound, it takes us to its source, the Lord himself. To take a new birth is to be in touch with that Shabd, or Word. This is what is meant by “so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

(Light on Saint John: Chapter 3)

[richard foulkes jnr]

One hand clapping-must be truly loved by GS Dhillon and all the
past sikh matyrs,heretics who were put to death,assassinated et al,to truly chastise a saint or anyone is the same as loving that person-as both hands clap to make one hand-without the duality there is no reality.I think dogma is necessary,so as when we turn it into God ma-face the other way around we enjoy peace of mind.Indeed meeting w GS Dhillon CSGrewal in person -one gets the sense that they could leave this world in a second
become bathed in that luminosity that pervades their eyes-who would'nt want to be around a smiling content "joker"-than with the Long Faced brigade-"I'm so depressed-I this I that-when if by dint of effort the tow hands came together knocked the I right out ofthe ball park.In other words-"we are" as Gurinder says "Masters in our own right."Oct 2005 dera.Go ahead make your day -sit down ,just let go-heretical advice from GS Dhillon.
Whilst in New Zealand Baba Ji said "Its our own laziness that holds us back-our choices not to put the effort in-I agreed sheepishly-arising for a small amount of "letting Go time" But
as Christ says my sheep hear my whistle-in other words if one hears the shepherd calling and stays in bed-whose to blame?
Sheep or shepherd.Incidentally-we are all destined for the same fold-no matter where we are in this creation-all sound and light
the composition of atomic matter held together by the subatomic particles-the same energy that sustains all life-some call the soul-to be completely 100% scientific about it-the chuch of the churchless is built by the radiant atoms of light-that are smaller than DNA-it is this matter that builds our bodies-therefore as meditators,fitness freaks -when we worship in the church of the churchless-our temples ,this divine human frame
we rekindle the millions of cells-some call it surat shabd yoga-some worship of the holy name,the namaz worship,the kalma devotee-all of us by positive affirmations from our brain waves -between our eyes-for any time -we will day by day becomr filled more and more with light.The "dark days are behind us.The Black Dog-that eventually took Alan Watts-suicide etc ,It is the light that we must engender no matter what label, we give it.
For all humanity is given the same apparatus to worship i.e a human body-more we focus our minds towards the light -the closer we become that Light.This is the teachings aof all God (man) and Woman.
dogma implies -not having any success in light worship . and not using the other hand to clap with.Rock on Light worshippers.

[richard foulkes jnr]

By the way for all people wishing to denigrate G S Dhillon or C S Grewal-please send a photo of yourselfas the Guru would love to embrace you and show you around the dera,let you stay in the beautiful hostels, eeat free food in the langar-if you get sick you may go the dera hospital, or in more serious cases be transported free of charge to Maharaj Sawan Singh Charitable Hospital for specialist VIP treatment -at no charge.
Then if you reall y feel angry at the Guru you can harrass him at a Q & A session in the shamiana-Baba Ji loves Questions, Go ahead-he can handle it.Oh don't forget satsang in the morning at 9.00 everyday-300,000-850,000 inone sitting.
Oh and theres heaps of cheap food you can buy,theres a free library-to chill out in and at least 70sq miles to wander around in.You can always ask to see Baba Ji in person-oh sometimes he visits US,Europe S America,UK-so you could hassle him there-he doesn't mind-he would rather know your problems directly you could even write him ar Baba Ji-RSSB 143204 Punjab India.
Hes there right now-so if you got any problems with the path etc drop him a line,he reads every letter-as it his sewa (service).
Isn't that something even though people hate him,and want to harm him he always treats people with kindness and respect.
If you are ever in the South Pacific drop in to Science of the Soul Study Centre 78-80 Olsen Ave Mt Roskill Auckland Wed 7.30 pm satsang Sat 10-2-pm sewa Sun 10-11.00 am satsang. Or write to the Rep Tony Waddicor 10 Maxine Pl, Tauranga New Zealand.
Baba Ji visits here every 5 years or so, and bought a property here in Mt Roskill 45 min from the airport.Good atmosphere here
and we have worked through our minor difficulties-with his guidance and help.Masters are ordinary people doing extraordinary service to humanity.We need them as they need us
to become better human beings and grow up, out of small realities and embrace the Golden Opportunity before us-to become- nothing. As in King Lear Shakespeare writes of Lear
"Nothing, nothing,nothing, nothing comes of nothing-
When we become nothing-we become everything we are nothing
We are everything.Beyond mind,beyond desire,beyond everything-which equates to Swami Ji describing it "Wonder,wonder wonder all is wonder."
This is what the Gurus possess-they say nothing of their wealth as they are the servants of true humility-they want nothing for themselves-they charge not a penny,they come to this world to Give-not to take.The live on their own income,they don the apparel that suits their occupation.let us not forget the true Masters can come as Charan Singh Ji says " In any country,any race , in any color- the same message they have to bring-some are known others are not known-how do we know the degree of enlightenment of our teacher-we can not-only the eagles know where the eagles fly -the tiny sparrows like us cannot.
True love is never smooth-the truer the love the rocky the road.
Some disciples leave the master and the path,saying why did you allow that to happen, what have I done to deserve this or that treatment?
The truth is that when we study the law of karma-it is not just this life or the last life that I must account for-it is for ALL of them.We cannot understand the greatness of the master without first understanding what their job is.
This why the present Master has put the age of initiation up.
That is why he discourages people, tells them not to rush-we have no idea of reincarnation.Just a concept.We don't know what shabd is.We do not know what transmigration is.Only concepts
Words beget words actions beget actions-a favourite expression from Baba Ji.For the denigrators out there good on you for being honest with the abuse-but how far have you flown brother?sister?have you cleared all the sin you consumed in this life?In the last?Guess what-see that guy in the turban you hate? He is your redeemer,friend agent of love when the Angels of Death via the cancer ward come to claim you-via all the meat you took prior to initiation...it must be paid for! Yep easiest way is meditation or.....Go though the body? Not to be crass but this illustrates in black in white exactly what the master does.
Try it-go and meditate 1 houras taught to you by Huzur-now do your finishing postion--feel better-see told you it works.
Now if we all sat down and did 20 mins instead of putting the master down we'd be better off.Do'nt you reckon.Hey we need to talk over our probs I agree-but at the end of the day meditation is our only support system-emails are good by the -shabd mail is quicker ,quieter, and more beneficial.Pacem Pacem Arohanui

[richard foulkes jnr]

I thoroughly concur with myself about the former two letters, all I can add is that there is a great deal of sewa to do in this life and we need all the help we can get.The Master Huzur Charan Singh has left us with a huge library of excellent publications.
Many different translations exist all around the world about Scence of The Soul,Surat Shabd Yoga,as a boy Charan Singh would play all around the dera, doing many jobs of service for His granfather,Sawan Singh-his love for his grandad was such that he thought the Gt Master was his dad Such love we se in all children ,however Charan Singh s destiny was no orinary child's as in Legacy of Love,Glimpses of The Great Master,Spritual Heritage,Call of the Great Master, With The Three Masters testify to.Now Great Masters scholarly treatise- Gurmat Siddhant Philosophy of The Masters 1-5-is compulsory reading for any one wishing to study comparitive Indian religions and their application in Sant Mat.Along with Soami Jis Sar Bachan and Poetry.Science of the Soul by Sardar Bahardur Jagat Singh for desert and for a second course The Path ,Die To Live by Charan Singh and my favourite The Master Answers-topped off by the Indomitable Kabir the Great Mystic by Isaac Ezekiel.
This intellectual satisfaction as Huzur puts it is the key to all knowledge.Without the mind being satisfied, one can not progress,less doubts more practice.More practice less doubt.
Experience-no doubts at all-Just realisation =wisdom to a greater or smaller degree.
My personal reflection on my master and Baba Ji is that the teachings are there for ALL.More and more I get to know Baba Ji
the more I see an ordinary person-living a normal life.
Not sweating the small stuff is how one could describe Baba Ji-
he gets on wtih stuff-and does it masterfully.Imagine trying to organise 20 people to sweep a football stadium.Yoiu couldn't without inducements,money ,force etc-and yet 70 sq miles of dera is swept daily -more or less-the ladies who sweep do it out of love=service for their LOVER Huzur Sawan Singh , or Jagat Singh ot Charan Singh or Baba Ji.That is LOVE and if you saw these ladies seeping with eyes full of love fortheir beloved-you would know the effect of the guru.They do it for love.It is hard for the western mind to appreciate-oimaging hurricane katrina
the hospital resue-that same love is operating ALL over dera.
It is NOT a jail,it is not a sweat shop, it is not anything but an opportunity of the sangat to please the master by pleasing the sangat-therefore each other.this simple principle as Gt Master elucidate in Philosophy of The Masters Vol 2 Chapt 3 Prem, or Love-He states that an environment saturated by love ( by meditation) does not laws,governments,etc and indeed if we were AT that level we would not need-there would be no armies,bombs etcAnway all of the books can be obtained at local satsang centres or write to : The Secretary RSSB 143204 Punjab
INDIA-none of the view s expressed by me are RSSBs etc -mine are but diluted trickles I have gleaned over a few dera visits.
We must support each other along this and many equally good paths-allah o akbar /god is great /love is all you need /know thyself by thyself believe not at all what others may say/ gnothe sethoun /woyaya woyayei/ om mani pad me hum/
So let us be happy and respect each others pathways to the light.

[gretchen]

"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying." —Woody Allen

[uma rohra]

I am new to Auckland... can some one guide me where is RSSb in Auckland and when is the preaching conducted.... also if you could guide me to reach there from Hobson street, city central... Thank you!!

[tucson]

Uma,

Go straight on Dogma Road for 6 km and make a sharp left on Dualism Lane. Continue a few blocks to Deception Street. There you will find the House of Gullibility well lighted. The man with the con-artist pin on his lapel will be the guru. Enjoy the diversion.

[Roger]

Tucson,

LOL........total hilarious comment....

Excuse me, I am actually laughing my ass off. Could I get a BS Mapsco fax of the above directions?

Thanks again for the laughs and giggles,
Roger

BS...stands for............something

[Jay]

Tuscon

Your just a fucking twat -- someone asks you seriously about rssb but you decide to be a fucking prat. Good luck to you.

[tucson]

Jay,

Where does it say this blog is a clearing house for RSSB info? Nobody asked ME seriously about anything. I disagree with you that I am a fucking twat. No way. I am a fucking dick. May Huzur's blessings descend upon you from realms on high. Radha Soami.

BTW, what is a prat? A brat with a speech disorder?

[tAo]

Ah, screw these stupid RSSB cult nit-wits that stumble in here assuming and looking for some satsang location info etc. These idiots come here via a Google search, but when they get here, they don't even bother to read what this blog is about or any of the content. So I say tough darts for them. I agree with Tucson - this here is not an RSSB info site. They can do their RS cult trip somewhere else. I don't give a shit even if they ARE sincere and naive.

And btw, this here blog is, in truth and in realityy, a heck of alot more of a real genuine "satsang" than any of those ridiculous phony RSSB dogma sessions that merely pretend to be satsang.

Satsang is about getting down to and searching for the real truth, and not about dogmatic brainwashing RSSB style.

These fools that stumble in here beacuse they are looking for RSSB info, should pay attention to what is actally being presented and didcussed here... instead of just using Brian and us to find RSSB and then go on their dumb-ass merry way without a clue as to what they passed by.

So I do NOT agree with Jay at all, and I say screw these dumb bastards. I say DON'T send them off to some foolish fate to be trapped in the RSSB cult. We should give them some real light and truth... NOT send them on their ignorant little way into the trap of RS cult dogma.

[Sawan Singh]

No experience IS everything Jay,your own name suggests your destiny-Joy is jai in Hindi and jaya is the equivalent.

Just because you have not experienced self realisation ie your own birthright does not give your the right to descecrate Baba jaimal Singh-dera Baba jaimal Singh aka RSSB or Radha Soami Satsang Beas 143204.

Have yoyu been inside to see Baba Jaimal Singh or Sawan singh or Jesus etc

All saints are one.Sant mat is not a dogma or a sect-yes the followers fall flat on there faces -why not.?

Can u Jay claim to have been inside,If you did u would not need to be negative EVER,
As u would be in 24/7 contented bliss.
What a feeling-no hatred-just love for all.
24/7 th ringing radiance,the light of the world within your grasp.
Radha Soami -Lord of the Soul at your feet-imagine the Joy Jay?
You would meet Baba Ji daily and all Saints.
Thata a promise one can realise.
Tis not ffiction but fact,
Go ahead make your day-meditate punk!
Go Inside,
thats what a dirty Harry Master woiuld say.
Stop moaning and GO in.Jay.

Radha Soami.
Sawan Singh
Jesus Kabir
Whatevr,,,,

[Roger]

Tucson,

I thought prat meant perfectly rare and talented? Reread your message of 11-10-2008, it is still funny. Thanks for the relaughs.

Roger

[Sawan Singh]

Radha Soami Din Dyal can only be understood by experiencing the spirituality.Talk is cheap.
Once we go in, then we will know.
Its is similar to looking at a score of Wagners Opera 'or a Mozart concerto-we see the written notes-but to experience the Masterpiece we must become a master of the instrument.

So it is with spirituality "The Science of the Soul "written by Professor Jagat Singh (RSSB.org) sums it up quite catergorically-the soul,the disciple is a particle of god
The perfect living master has merged into and become God in human form. The Ocean is the Master the drop is the disciple,
Go in and understand in real time-not by egotistical intellectual concepts ,arguments andcontradictions.

Again go inside and see and hear for yourself

Sawan Singh

[tucson]

Here we go again.

Sawan Singh,

How do you know the master is perfect and has merged into god and become god in human form?

What if he isn't?

[Roger]

Sawan Singh,

Who, in your opinion, is the current living master that has become God in human form? I'm not finding fault, i'm just not current with the latest RSSB masters.

[Sawan Singh]

To answer your own question-by finding God within your human form-you will be in better position to know know the masters who are one with god -past present and future.

It takes one to know one-is a very apt statement of fact on this point.
Experience is the best teacher, spiritual experiences-one can not discuss.

read The Master Answers by Charan Singh or any book written by the masters they know best. www.rssb.org-has a selection of books online

[Carl Miller]

Sawan Singh,

I am curious about your answer above to Roger's question. You said:

"To answer your own question-by finding God within your human form-you will be in better position to know know the masters who are one with god -past present and future.

It takes one to know one-is a very apt statement of fact on this point."

--How could those who aren't masters know who is a master since it takes a master to know a master? And, if one is a master and knows who is a master, why would they need a master since they already are one?

[Sawan Singh]

When want to learn something,Carl dont we go to a teacher-then we learn step by step until we eventually become as good as the teacher-
So we never know until we find a teacher.
All masters were disciples and remain disciples
they were instructed to teach after the demise of the master.They always refer to themselves as disciples.Masters are always the servants of their master and the sangat (the disciples.)

[Sawan Singh]

Coming back from RSSB is always a trauma, its probably the disciplined program of 3 am siren -meditation to 6.00am breakfast 7-8 satsang 9.30am -10.00 cuppa tea-sewa till lunchtime.1-3 quiet time sewa till 5.00 shower evening Q & A
with Baba Ji -then dinner 6-7. A walk to the snack bar -come back home to the room 9.00 lights out.For another day tomorrow.21 days of disciplined routine.Glimpses of the master in satsang Q & A -and you realise the path of surat sahbd yoga-can be done anywhere in the world-however at the dera 5000 residents swelling to 900,000 peak times all with one thing on their minds-love for the master.
Love for each other love for ones self.
This point is most critical-we must respect ourselves as a wonderful human body and mind capable of self realisation then god realisation.As we understand the tenets of the benevolent philosophy and the beauty of the teachings of all saints-we come closer, to each other.Its a good feeling to forgive, others to b aware of the crap in ones mind-you know-and to see the master loving everyone-and spmetimes cajoling ,being totally strict-when needs must.-priceless.He never worries about the internet criticisers the ex sat hatred-he is totally at peace with all he does.His mission is to help US along the way to God realisation-it can be done it will be done-and is being done.Roll On Baba ji and the Surat Shabd Yoga path-there for everybody.

[1%]

sawan... you are living in a fantasy, your babble about the master(s) is hype and myth, and you are preaching dogma on a blog where preaching dogma is neither welcome nor appreciated. so go preach your sant mat religion somewhere else.

[Carl Miller]

Sawan, I agree with 1%.

You said: "When want to learn something,Carl dont we go to a teacher-then we learn step by step until we eventually become as good as the teacher-"

--Yes, but there is evidence that the teacher knows what he/she is teaching. For example, a carpenter can show you that he knows how to build a house. There is no evidence the master can do what he teaches.

You said: "So we never know until we find a teacher."

--How do we know we have found a master teacher? Why should I follow his teachings if he doesn't show me what he can do? I could spend my life following a fake. What if I follow the master for my whole life and then find out he wasn't a real master at all?

"All masters were disciples and remain disciples"

--Then why are they called masters? Why would we want to learn from a disciple who is supposed to be a master but we don't know for sure.

"they were instructed to teach after the demise of the master."

--How do we know their master was a master?

"Masters are always the servants of their master and the sangat (the disciples.)"

--So what good does that do us if they aren't masters? Who says they are masters? Their master? But we don't know their master was a master.

This sounds crazy to me.

[1%]

and i agree with all of carl miller's points as well.

[Sawan Singh]

I challenge all of the critics of sant mat to go inside there minds eye at the eye centre between the two eyes and meditate for three hours without wavering,without movingaway from the point of concentration. Then repeat that exercise for 28 years. Then tell me its dogma,
i challenge all ex initiates of Charan singh so called ex-sat groups to get on with their vows they made freely without coercion andwith love-DO THEIR MEDITATION as instructed-at the time of their meditation. 1% you obviously have never had spiritual ecstasy-aside from your egotistical ravings about yourself,obviously you never have any love for the humanities nor people of non white persuasion-I would ascetain from your painful cries to the contrary that you do believe in sant mat-the path of love and probably are too afraid of what others may think if you did start meditating-and give up alcohol,marijuamma,heroin,cocaine etc stuck to a lacto vegetarian diet attended satsang- read sant mat books -go online www.rssb.org and order a book -go on challenge the "dogma".
Its amazing when you travel away from a racist,sexist ,ageist,cruel hearted world and enter into samadhi,nirvana-blissful realms of serenity and love-fact-been there doing that every day mate-and to prove it I say to 1%
Radha Soami Din Dayal is a reality a state of conciousness-not as you say a dogma-it could become that -but experierience IS the teacher.
As I said before GO INSIDE and check out sant mat for yourself. Its like going on line,You make a choice of where your thoughts go-you choose the words and you put them into the keyboard of your mind-result.S close your eyes to the outer world 1% and join the surat shabd -the ringing radiance-the word the tao the kalma-the wairua o te tohunga -arohanui o te iwi ote hapu -Io.The creative energy within all of us 7 billion people.
Now this blog is for spritual minded people an independent site for expression -aint it grand-we can find out about all religious points of view-agnostic,gnostic atheistic-whatever-fantastic.You know some of Sawan Singhs biggest critics in h is lifetime
at Radha Soami Satsang Beas- 1903-1948 became his most ardent and loving disciples-he wrote so many books two specifically to Americans
Spiritual Gems and Dawn of Light-all available from rssb.org-read them-if you dont believe me -"Go inside punk-make my day "
Like I said -its all about LOVE this path.Ive been following it since 1970, writing at least once a year to RSSB-been to Beas 12 times-first in Feb -April 1984-last time Oct-Nov 2009-fantastic -500 westerners in Hostel 6 900,000 Indian people at peak times
all seated together for one purpose -to see and hear the master Gurinder Singh Dhillon.
Fantastic-doesnt matter what people say or think-when you are in the prescence of a human being who has followed the teachings has obeyed the strict discipline of the teachings and has been nominated by the previous master-who has been nominated by the previous living master-you realise just what sant mat is.Its all about love.No drugs,no alcohol,no meat ,no eggs,no fish nor fowl-lacto vegetarian diet-a moral life-honest living .a chaste life, a married life 3 hours meditation a day-now all the teachers of rssb have been living examples of the life.No dogma strict facts-they all earnt their own income-all were married had children -some didi not and remained celibate all through -Baba jaimal Singh was such a one-the rest of rssb masters lived a householders life.Now I challenge the 1% to search within his/her heart and just understand a little of what he is trying to criticise.Look at Christs teachings and sant mat look at buddha mohammed Guru Nanak all saints and criticise them-as you criticise my writing -you will find we are all saying the same thing-LOVE comes from within-it is experential.heaven is a contented heart hell is a discontented heart.Go inside with 1% faith and love for 3 hours without wavering at the eye focus 1% carlmiller ex sat kirpal etc you will be rewarded with 100% Sawan Singh Charan Singh Jagat Singh Soami Ji Baba Ji Jesus Julian of Norwich St Teresa St Antony Mirabai Ravidas Kabir -all the saints
its all Love -experience it and you will know.I welcome the interst in sant mat -keep it UP.Radha Soami.SS.

[Cyfer]

Sant Mat is like Liberalism. Once you finally admit to your self what a complete fraud it is, you wonder how you could have ever believed is such fantasy (faustist fantasy i may add).

Lou

[1%]

The following are comments that were posted by "Sawan Singh" on January 15, 2010 at 08:27 AM... and my subsequent responses to them:

Sawan Singh said: "I challenge all of the critics of sant mat to go inside there minds eye at the eye centre between the two eyes and meditate for three hours without wavering,without movingaway from the point of concentration. Then repeat that exercise for 28 years."

-- are you crazy?? it appears that you are. why should or would anyone do that for 28 years? and especially if no results are forthcoming and obtained after a very reasonable period of time - say several months or evn a year or two at the most. why should or would anyone in their right mind, continue something for 28 years if there was no results?? this is precisely the kind of irrational behavior that is suggested by, and which accompanies blind adherence to dogma.

"Then tell me its dogma"

-- well it is dogma, clear and undeniable dogma.

"i challenge all ex initiates of Charan singh so called ex-sat groups to get on with their vows they made freely without coercion andwith love-DO THEIR MEDITATION as instructed-at the time of their meditation."

-- well myself and some others here have done just exactly that - have meditated as was instructed - and have done so for years. so you are not saying anything that is meaningful or significant.

"1% you obviously have never had spiritual ecstasy-aside from your egotistical ravings about yourself"

-- you do not know anything about my spiritual life. you have no way of knowing. as for "egotistical", your dogmatic rant exudes a considerable degree of egotism.

"obviously you never have any love for the humanities nor people of non white persuasion"

-- again, you do not know how anything about i feel towards humanity, or ethnicity and race. and as a matter of fact, i have absolutely no dioscrimination as regards race. but the fact that you made this outrageous comment, shows that you apparently do.

"I would ascetain from your painful cries to the contrary that you do believe in sant mat"

-- well then, you are incorrect. i do not believe in sant mat, or in any kind of religion. i am not a believer at sll. but i am not an atheist either. i do not need spiritual beliefs in my life. i am just fine without them, thank you. so go peddle your doga somehwere else, because i am not interested in it.

"-the path of love and probably are too afraid of what others may think if you did start meditating"

-- i could not care less what other peo-ple think. and as for "meditating", well i dare say that i have probably done far more meditation that you have. i started meditating over 40 years ago... so i definitely don't need to "start" meditating.

"-and give up alcohol,marijuamma,heroin,cocaine etc"

-- i do not take or do any of those things. so what makes you think that i do? you obviously have some very faulty and incorrect ideas about other people.

"stuck to a lacto vegetarian diet attended satsang- read sant mat books"

-- fyi mr smart-ass, i was a strict vegetarian for 40 years, and i was a vegan (no "lacto") for at least 25 of those years. i have also read ALL of the RS sant mat books that were published up to the latter 1990s. so i do not need to "read sant mat books".

"-go online www.rssb.org and order a book"

-- what should i "order a book"? i already have all the books in my library. you really sound like another typical dogmantic religious fanatic... demanding that people read and buy books that they have already read and own. pretty stuid don't don't you think??

"-go on challenge the "dogma"."

-- the dogma has already been challeged on this blog numerous times... by both myself and many others. go read the archives.

"Its amazing when you travel away from a racist,sexist ,ageist,cruel hearted world and enter into samadhi,nirvana-blissful realms of serenity and love"

-- and where is this "racist,sexist ,ageist,cruel hearted world", that you speak of?? its in your own mind.

"fact-been there doing that every day mate"

-- well "mate"... i have to say that, after having read your comments, you certainly don't sound or act like you do.

"and to prove it I say to 1%
Radha Soami Din Dayal is a reality a state of conciousness"

-- is it?? maybe it is, and maybe not. one thing for sure: consciousness is subjective.

"not as you say a dogma"

-- the dogma is all the ideas and beliefs and rhetoric that you and other parrot and put forth as supposed fact, but which has no supporting evidence.

"experierience IS the teacher."

-- well i don't doubt that.

"As I said before GO INSIDE and check out sant mat for yourself."

-- i already have.

"close your eyes to the outer world 1% and join the surat shabd -the ringing radiance-the word the tao the kalma-the wairua o te tohunga -arohanui o te iwi ote hapu -Io.The creative energy within all of us 7 billion people."

-- i already have.

"this blog is for spritual minded people an independent site for expression -aint it grand-we can find out about all religious points of view-agnostic,gnostic atheistic-whatever-fantastic."

-- yeah, so why are you preaching??

"Sawan Singhs [...] he wrote so many books two specifically to Americans
Spiritual Gems and Dawn of Light-all available from rssb.org-read them-if you dont believe me"

-- thanks, but i have already read both of them.

"Go inside punk-make my day"

-- you are the one who sounds like a "punk"... all puffed-up but really knowing nothing.

"Like I said -its all about LOVE this path."

-- well then, where is your love??

"Ive been following it since 1970, writing at least once a year to RSSB-been to Beas 12 times-first in Feb -April 1984-last time Oct-Nov 2009-fantastic -500 westerners in Hostel 6 900,000 Indian people at peak times
all seated together for one purpose -to see and hear the master Gurinder Singh Dhillon.Fantastic"

-- so what? i have been there too. what's your point?

"doesnt matter what people say or think-when you are in the prescence of a human being who has followed the teachings has obeyed the strict discipline of the teachings and has been nominated by the previous master-who has been nominated by the previous living master-you realise just what sant mat is."

-- you are entitled to your opinion, but that's really all it is... an opinion.

"Its all about love.No drugs,no alcohol,no meat ,no eggs,no fish nor fowl"

-- well i like drugs and wine and meat and eggs and fish.

"all the teachers of rssb have been living examples of the life."

-- is that so?? are you sure??

"they all earnt their own income"

-- how do you know that?? can you prove it??

"Now I challenge the 1% to search within his/her heart and just understand a little of what he is trying to criticise."

-- i well understand everything that i criticise... and i don't criticise anything that i have not first taken the time to thoroughly understand.

"Look at Christs teachings and sant mat look at buddha mohammed Guru Nanak all saints and criticise them-as you criticise my writing"

-- i already have.

"you will find we are all saying the same thing-LOVE comes from within-it is experential."

-- no... sant mat is all about shabda/naam, not about "love".

"heaven is a contented heart hell is a discontented heart."

-- that is true.

"Go inside with 1% faith and love for 3 hours without wavering at the eye focus 1% carlmiller ex sat kirpal"

-- i am not carl miller... whoever that is. and i am not an "ex sat kirpal" either.

"Sawan Singh Charan Singh Jagat Singh Soami Ji Baba Ji Jesus Julian of Norwich St Teresa St Antony Mirabai Ravidas Kabir -all the saints"

-- that is merely your own opinion.

"experience it and you will know."

-- "experience" is only subjective.

"I welcome the interst in sant mat"

-- well thats nice... but for myself, i am not interested in sant mat.

[Roger]

"I challenge all of the critics of sant mat to go inside there minds eye at the eye centre between the two eyes and meditate for three hours without wavering,without movingaway from the point of concentration. Then repeat that exercise for 28 years."

--Starting today, I shall begin repeating the exercise. In January 2038, I shall be ready to declare it a dogma or not. I need a list of regulars, that will volunteer to be present to hear me out? So, please respond in a timely manner.

[Juan]

Starting today, I shall begin repeating the exercise. In January 2038, I shall be ready to declare it a dogma or not.

But before that you must be initiated by a Perfect Living Master, otherwise all your efforts will be fruitless.

[Blogger Brian]

Juan, why would the efforts be fruitless?

Are you saying that Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Muslims, Christians, or anyone else who meditates for dozens of years won't gain anything from meditation if they aren't initiated by a "perfect living master"?

Also, how is someone supposed to distinguish a "perfect" living master from an "imperfect" living master?

[Jen]

“...meditate for three hours without wavering, without moving away from the point of concentration.” How unrealistic is this! Especially as we are told not to run away from the world, so we have to attend to our work, our families, our everyday lives and yet at the same time have this amazing concentration of not wavering from one pointed concentration when we meditate. Is this even possible in our everyday lifestyles?

I have read that it takes three hours for the mind to settle, in other words before we even start to meditate! Surely only those who can close themselves away in some type of monastery, living a secluded and one pointed lifestyle as either a monk or nun can do this. Most satsangis I have spoken to cannot manage this three hours a day of meditation. I’d love to meet anyone who can… are you out there… anyone? Maybe, some people living in some poorer countries where meditation is a strong part of cultural conditioning or even where everyday existence is so difficult that meditation becomes a necessity?

[who?]

Juan is nothing more than a mindless babbling preaching parrot - someone who is all dogma and holier-than-thou rhetoric, and no down-to-earth common sense or wisdom & insight born out of real experience. Juan is a dogmatic radha soami fundamentalist preacher. there is really no point in trying to reason with such narrow-minded idiots, but they do serve as object lessons.

[who]

"But before that you must be initiated by a Perfect Living Master, otherwise all your efforts will be fruitless."

Posted by: Juan | January 18, 2010 at 04:23 AM

- well i'd have to seriously disagree witth that on the basis that i have spoken with many initiated satsangis (especially those who had pursued meditation and other spiritual paths for several years or more before they ever got initiated in RS), and quite a majority of them said that their meditations had taken a significant turn for the worse more or less right AFTER they started upon (were initiated) in the sant mat & RS path. of course, some of them believed the pervading propaganda and myth that the apparent decline in the quality of their meditations was somehow caused (was a blessing of) "the master". but some other satsangis felt that it was clearly the RS meditation practice which had ruined the quality of their meditations and the previous spiritual progress (before RS initiation). and i bet some or even many of those folks ended up leaving santmat/RS after some time. i think many of the satsangis who did carry on in spite of having no results and poor mediations, did so mainly because RS was their first and only spiritual path, and so they had virtually nothing else (no previous spiritual paths and/or meditation experiences) to compare to.

[möbius]

you must be uninitiated by an imperfect dead master, otherwise all your fruits will be effortful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobius_strip

[tAo]

For those who are openminded enough to take a little time and listen carefully:

(this is an audio file, so turn on your speakers or headphones)

http://jancikradionetwork.com/visible/f2f-visible.100117.mp3

[the song lyrics for the musical prelude]:

"God's Not Dead" - song by Les Visible

God's not dead
He's merely hiding
You can see him in the morning
When the sun is rising

Greed's not good and God's not dead
I don't care what Nietzsche or Ayn Rand said
The blood of every man is red
And I'm not going to war

They justify all the things they do
With convoluted logic and
The waves still pound upon the sand
And will when they are gone

God's not dead
He's merely hiding
You can see him in the morning
When the sun is rising

You can build a paradise
Or wall yourself inside a tomb
Kick against the holy womb
And kick against the wounds

We're still one be you so blind
To fight against the living light
You can't hide inside that night
There's nowhere to go

Chorus

Love is stronger than a lie
Water's harder than a stone
No one has to be alone
Tears will wash you dry

Round and round the ferris wheel
Of birth and death rolls round and round
The master laid it on the line
You can go with him

God's not dead
He's merely hiding
You can see him in the morning
When the sun is rising

[Sawan Singh]

Meditate meditate meditate no matter what!
Hey I just remembered what my master said
"the word of god is also called the shabd
in punjabi
the kalma-in Islam
tao in mandarin
logos in greek
The shabd ,the word the audible life stream is mentioned by at least 13 different masters of all ages
times religions-each master speaking of it-and meditation being the process by which-one attains-self realisation,and then
god realisation.
To understand their teachings ie to know god
is not a dogma-but a science of the soul.Whereby one can actually test the merits of their holy words by taking the journey within.
Meditate meditate meditate-the same length of time for a AC/DC comcert 2.5 hours is what it takes.(as an aside and a bit of fun-I love rock concerts-
Interestingly it was a disciple of Charan Singh taht first produced AC/DCs 2 killer world beating Albums.
So you can be a billionaire rock producer and still meditate daily-worldly and spiritual disciplines-a get combo.
Or one can be a sickness beneficiatry and artist and meditate daily-the goal is ONE.
Godrealization through self realisation.The practice of the yoga of the sound current-is worth far MORE than mere words on a blog.Still if a saint was alive -and we know that we are all saints in our own right-says Baba Ji the perfect living master of RSSB 143204 Punjab INDIA-imin my opinion he is and I have seen him 11 times in India 4 times elsewhere-written to him talked with him and followed his instructions-and yes fell over on my face a few times-Hes the same as Charan Singh -my master.OK?

[Roger]

What is a sickness beneficiatry? Would this be similar to owning a farm in Hawaii?

[tAo]

Hey Sawan Singh... no, you're not "OK". so shut up with your tiresome preaching.

[Ruhari Abdullah Sawan Singh]

Tao Preach what you have seen -come on no Perfect Master dead or living would criticise my words why do you? Oh your'e not perfect nor are you a master.not yet anyway but youre trying right
well Tao you want to invoke the grace of the perfect living master-stop telling him to shut up-he has to preach-its his sewa-f*** grow up to the light by submission to it-duh ? You like facts here are some facts about my life and f&&& you if you dont like it-who are you brother/sister the black and white email police ?
I wrote to my master when I was 13, 1970 saw him in 1976 in Auckland Newe Zealand then stayed at Beas February 6-April 13 1984-then saw Baba Ji 1992 in Auckland then 3 week sessions all in October session-1993 October Beas-Asked hundreds of questions,jokes,sang shabds,meditated ,had glorious satsangs,did heaps of sewa attended langar darshan etc etc These are all the dates I went (oh-in 1993 stayed in Uk Haynes Park and did 2 weeks sewa cool eh Tao?)1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,
2009 I am writing many letters,books,plays,musicals yes I am in a position of experiential educative and a factual tutelage.Baba Ji has spoken to me many many times on things USA and hey well meet up one day soon Tao-you can tell me to my face how you are feeling.mark my words Tao -its guys like you or girls it makes no difference that make the Father want to shower his grace on you.I may not have intellectual degrees or money but I know what love is,I know what master is ,I know that we need Radha Soami Din Dayal in our lives-just as Jesus knew.All saints say the same thing Tao-you there yet? My opinion -give up the arrogance of the psuedonym and actually achieve Tao.or Radha Soami Din Dayal.Been there done and dping that-whats your excuse?
ps sickness benefit is social security for people who are disabled or sick in any way.
I never have a full time job -I earn just enough per annum to see Baba Ji at Beas for 3 weeks a year-best place for love in action meditation-under the protection of a perfect living master like a living Jesus or living Buddha.NewRSSB book "Adventure of Faith" Shraddha Leitz ISBN 978-93-80077-01-7 Hey Tao you can order it www.ScienceoftheSoul.org-fantastic read a Benedictine nun adventure living in an Ashram as a nun and finding her Master Charan Singh-most people go through many of the spiritual truisms,and experiences-but we all have our unique karmic stain
My journey to Radha Soami is like us all-I came through mental breakdowns,paranoid schizophrenia ,bipolar mania -all wityh the knowledge that Master was there-at every step-I knew he was-the shabd form of the master of which we all meet Tao.-and exactly as Lao Tse says-we become the single drop unto a roaring Ocean of love within our silent repose -asana du medutaat'ion.TRhis experience all sufi all rock all folk all songs ever written depict-the gaping chasm in our third eye the cry of love as Hendrix says -Enough said-Hey Tao Baba Ji see you at Beas Brother-bring your football gear-

[Ruhari Abdullah Sawan Singh]

Tao doesnt eat cow
He not happy
Tao better swallow pride
If he wanna GO inside

Radha Soami Taomi
You initiated yet?
If you you are
You go far
If you not
You come back as snot

Radha Soami Taomi

[tAo]

Ruhari Abdullah,

well as a matter of fact, i am indeed "initiated"... a genu-wine certified & sanctfied & tie-dyed & deep-fried radha soami satsang beas initiation (courtesy of charan singh)... and with lots of pickeled hot jalapeno peppers and a sprinkling of gun-powder on top.

so therfore, since i am initiated, i guess i won't be comin back as "snot" after all. sorry to foil your expectations.

and thats right, i sure don't eat "cow" (or bull for the matter), but i do often munch on nails and broken glass and beer cans. especially before meditation.

[tAo]

Ruhari Abdullah,

sorry, but i don't preach. i have "seen" alot of wild-ass shit in my day, but i don't do no preachin about it.

in addition, since apparently you are not very observant, i don't claim to be any "Perfect Master dead or living". you ask why do i criticize you? well because i think people like you who preach almost always do not know what they are talking about, and they don't speak from experience. thats why they (and you) preach. because if you had any insight or experience at all, then you would not find it necessary or be motivated to convince others. also, this is not an RS satsang site, and preaching RS dogma is not welcome here. but if you have real evidence (or even personal experience) which supports the RS doctrine, then that would be acceptable. but so far, you haven't offered any. all you do is preach.

"your'e not perfect nor are you a master."

-- how do you know that?? you don't know what i am. you don't know anyting about me. i have never claimed to be "perfect", but i might be a master. yet how would you ever know?? you don't know. there is no way for you to discern. so therfore, you are only proving your own ignorance by such presumption.

"not yet anyway but youre trying right"

-- wrong. i am not "trying" to do or to achieve anything. i am not involved in any of that sort of thing.

"well Tao you want to invoke the grace of the perfect living master"

-- no i don't, nor do i need to. i am just fine as i am. reality is all sufficient. also, i don't believe in "perfect living masters". that is your myth, not mine.

"stop telling him to shut up-he has to preach-its his sewa"

-- i don't give a shit what his (your) "seva" is. thats all your belief. and also, your preaching doesn't belong here. it doesn't matter whether its your 'thing' or not. its not an excuse. so take your preaching elsewhere. period.

"grow up to the light by submission to it"

-- the light is always altready the case. and there is nothing to submit.

"You like facts here are some facts about my life and f&&& you if you dont like it-who are you brother/sister the black and white email police"

-- is that what RS teaches you?? to say "fuck you" to people just because they don't care for your dogmatic preaching? well i see you have gained some real positive virtue from your involvement in RS... or perhaps you were already that way.

"I wrote to my master when I was 13, 1970 saw him in 1976 in Auckland Newe Zealand then stayed at Beas February 6-April 13 1984"

-- well then i must have seen you there. because i was there during that same period of time - from late Jan to May 1984.

"then saw Baba Ji 1992 in Auckland then 3 week sessions all in October session-1993 October Beas-Asked hundreds of questions,jokes,sang shabds,meditated ,had glorious satsangs,did heaps of sewa attended langar darshan etc etc"

-- yeah, so what?

"these are all the dates I went 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007,2008,2009"

-- to be honest, i really don't care how much affiliation you have had with the RS cult and gurus.

"Baba Ji has spoken to me many many times on things USA and hey well meet up one day soon Tao-you can tell me to my face how you are feeling."

-- i couldn't care less about your "Baba Ji". and i am sure you wouldn't want to hear what i feel. because actually, i don't feel anything. i have no interest or need or use for RS anymore.

"mark my words Tao -its guys like you or girls it makes no difference that make the Father want to shower his grace on you."

-- i'm not a girl, and i need no grace. i've already been graced... with truth and freedom from all doctrines. and i don't believe in your (imo childish) "Father" god.

"I may not have intellectual degrees or money but I know what love is"

-- well good for you. thats nice. glad you can feel some of the love-bliss that is the nature of unconditional reality.

"I know what master is ,I know that we need Radha Soami Din Dayal in our lives"

-- well thats your idea, and it may seem real to you, but it doesn't hold any meaning for me. also, i don't "need" any
'merciful lord of the soul'. i already AM what i need. so i don't need that kind of belief that you subscribe to. you see, thats the thing... other people don't "need" your religion or beliefs.

"All saints say the same thing"

-- no they don't. there is a vast diversity in what spiritual teachers, gurus, and pundits say.

"Tao-you there yet?"

-- no, i am HERE. there is no "there". there is only here.

"My opinion -give up the arrogance of the psuedonym and actually achieve Tao."

-- well first, my pseudony is not "Tao"... its "tAo". there is a disctict difference. my name has nothing to do with Tao or Taosim. its just a pseudonym. it doesn't carry the significance that you ascribe to it. it is a cross (+), a triangle (A), and a circle (o). thats what it is. thats all that it signifies. its not "Tao" at all. so you are way off the mark. moreover, there is no "arrogance" involved in it. its just a symbol. you are reading more into it than what is actually there. and i don't have any "arrogance" about it. and i am not representing Taoism either.

"or Radha Soami Din Dayal."

-- well, fyi, the "Tao" is not the same as your "Radha Soami Din Dayal". not even close. go study taoism, then you'll understand.

"Been there done and dping that-whats your excuse?"

-- i doubt that you have been anywhere or done anything. and i don't do excuses. everyone walks their own path. you are nobody special. and you soind like you haven't done shit in your life except for seeking and running after gurus. and you haven't got a clue as to where i am at.

"sickness benefit is social security for people who are disabled or sick in any way.
I never have a full time job -I earn just enough per annum to see Baba Ji at Beas for 3 weeks a year"

-- sounds like you don't have any job at all. sounds like you are disabled. and if you want to waste your money running after the RS cult guru, then thats your business.

"under the protection of a perfect living master like a living Jesus or living Buddha."

-- man, are you deluded. you are one hell of a lost puppy. get a life of your own dude.

"most people go through many of the spiritual truisms,and experiences-but we all have our unique karmic stain"

-- you can believe that if you want to, but you'll never be free as long as you do.

"My journey to Radha Soami is like us all-I came through mental breakdowns,paranoid schizophrenia ,bipolar mania -all with the knowledge that Master was there-at every step-I knew he was-the shabd form of the master of which we all meet"

-- well, i am sorry to hear that... but you should understand that i did not go through any "mental breakdowns" or "paranoid schiziphrenia" or "bipolar mania". i've never had any of those sort of problems. i am sorry that you have. however, i don't share in your belief that "Master was there-at every step". thats not my reality. i consider that to be an illusion.

"in our third eye the cry of love as Hendrix says -Enough said-Hey Tao Baba Ji see you at Beas Brother"

-- well thanks for the invitation, but i seriously doubt that i will ever return to Beas. i am not even sure that i will ever go back to India, for that matter. i did my time in India... years. i love India but i don't see any reason to go there anymore. reality can never be achieved by going to such places. reality will never be lived or realized through seeking.

reality is always already the case... here and now. aum tat sat