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July 18, 2005


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Seema writes:

"I mean we hav not seen god."

-- Who is "we"? - Speak for yourself. And where is this "god"? - Don't speak about things which you obviously know nothing about.

"Is not it that only he can make us falling in love with himself. It depends only god(satguru)."

-- Falling in love you say? That's just more nauseatingly lame "god" and "satguru" mumblings from another typically brainless RS sycophant. Go back to your cult prison-cell at the RSSB where you belong.

But then "seema" is also mostlikely just another stupid hit-and-run blog commenter.

Radha swami ji ka sabad suna hai.

Woh sabad gaand se atha hai kya

If we are not satisfied with a chosen way, then there is nothing stopping us from walking away and finding a way of life that suits us better. Though disallusionment or disappointment can occur absolutley anywhere in any aspect of our lives. Radha Soami is no more or no less a method of Yoga, with a set of values that assists us. It has never advised anyone to Harm or Inflict Violence on anything or anyone, in this respect it does allow us to be better Human beings. It's simply a classroom, each one of us understanding the lessons differently according to our own individual perspectives and experiences. Neither is ever wrong or right. There are 100's of Masters/Gurus all over India the world, we have just picked - one. We have no proof whether Masters/Gurus are incarnations of God or not, for some of us that matters, for others, Gurus are simply people who place Guidlines that we feel comfortable following. If any teaching or philosophy has given us an opportunity to understand more than before, (whether we like what the people are doing within that group or not, and we wish to move on), then we should Try to be grateful and gracious for the insight and understanding expansion through the experience and teachings and then move to a Higher Truth...Radha Soami

I would definitely advice pplz to stay away from this great blog if they r non-beleivers and keep practicing whatever they wish.....
To the blog owner- I heartly thank you for creating such a blog but would like you to delete you old posts or comments if possible which hurt the sentiments of people and are commented by people fooling around thinking they are too much knowledgeble to read something and consider it rubbish...
Thank you.
[email protected]

Also do not post topics of debate on matters of nature classified as hurting feelings of some followers......You decrease the God's grace when you create a debate on its connections or creations..RS never asked you to preach but never stopped you to share your positive thoughts...so do it instead of generating debates on the matters of god's grace, of which you and me have been part of, where people like in some above comments create disharteaning or disturbing messages! do these conciously as if: Would God have thought good if I wrote this and unknowledgeble people commented on this worthy topic?....
Thanks Again!
[email protected]


My advice to you my friend. If you don't like what Brian writes, then don't read the blog. It's funny...you are certainly not the first person who has tried to advise Brian about what he should or should not write about here. What I don't understand is, do you not understand that you have a choice to read or not to read?
"You decrease the God's grace when you create a debate on its connections or creations"
I'm sorry Rahul, but this statement is just plain offensive. How can you say Brian "decreases gods grace"? I mean come on. This is just rediculous. This reminds me a lot of Peter Pan...if the children only believe in neverland, then it will become real. And to act like we could decrease the grace of god by expressing opinions. Jeez Louise! Sounds like an authoritarian god you have there.

In sum, to Rahul and to anyone else who wishes to advise Brian what to write:

don't read the blog or suck it up and get over "being offended." Why are you so offended anyway? That would be the really interesting question to ask yourself, if you could stay with that investigation.

I doubt Baba Ji, if you see him as en enlightened person, would be offended by this conversation. I would bet rather that he couldn't care less, not that he would want to stifle the opinions here.

My message to Rahul

If Brian starts deleting old posts relating to cricitisms of RSSB, the blog will lose its identity. Why should he delete it? This blog is Churchless (beyond faith). Only a man who abandons the Church becomes Churchless. If he starts deleting the posts, the blog will be anything else, but not churchless.

Deepak, I always appreciated your point of view, but aren't you trying to show your offensive side by trying to imitate tAo in a bad way. tAo writes in a classic way, even if he writes 'F#$ off', it doesn't sounds bad as he is trying to convey some point. But you wrote 'G#$' in your previous comment, which is very bad word and it was without any point. I do understand Hindi very well.

Again, I do understand, I should not be telling you or anybody if you should use the bad words or not, but it didn't sound classy from you..

You are right, Sapient.

I agree with you. Tao had a way of abusing that was quite articulate and very natural.

There may be another reason for my "less classy side". In India or for that matter elsewhere, you mainly deal with two classes of people. The one on the street and the ones on the dignified side.

During the years that I spent as a journalist. I maintained two personalities. One for the street and the other for the intellectuals. So one side of me (at least the language) is offensive, the other side of me is classy (the one for the intellectual).

So if a commoner comes to me, I won't speak in the classic language. He won't understand that. I will go on an intellectual mode only if the other person is receptive.

Anyway, I belive in venting out frustrations once in a while. That is why I pick up an object/subject for bashing. The traditional RS cultgoons (to quote Tao) are simpletons. Most of them if not all. That is why I like to vent out my frustration on them. I guess it is good for them. It might have shock value and force them to rethink.

I know this is a poor defence. But I use my intution to know whom to abuse and whom not to.

hi what do you know about rssb. you have to pay for this

Pawar, should I pay in cash or kind?

I don't mind RSSB, never had a issue with them either.
If he sat on a chair or on the floor, it does not matter or makes the whole situation equal. Many speakers, sit higher for the purpose to be seen by everyone and heard easier. Not a issue, as for the whole him having a giant acre, big deal, Dera/Ashram is a ancient community thing. Times have changed for many modern people. (im not defending RSSB, Im pointing out a different perspective), if he reads parts from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib so what? No offense but the SGGS contains small passages from Hindu Sants and Sufi sants, what is the difference if he reads parts?
Its know this Guru Ji is more stricter, Maybe because he believes its gone out of hand, or members and teachers have "corrupted" the teachings...
I also believe cultural clash does occur, I believe regulations is hard to do (like teachers within the group abuse their power) just like in all religious, govt, social heads who may abuse their power...
Btw I know someone who is a RSSB and they smoke, they have also met the head of RSSB when they were at the Dera and they did not say anything... They advised against it but allowed them in the end to make their own choice...
Everyones different, everyones interaction is different.
Everyones view on concept of god is very different...
I like Brahman concept, A supreme cosmic spirit...

you can tear, attack what i said... but doesn't matter you all had your say in countless debating over their bad their not bad....

Mantra SAY:

"Dera/Ashram is a ancient community thing."

-- It ain't all THAT ancient. Its only been around since Jaimal had a little hut, and then Sawan turned it into many more huts.

"Its know this Guru Ji is more stricter"

-- Yup... he's probably very consticted, you know, very anal retentive.

"Maybe because he believes its gone out of hand"

-- You mean, it's gone out of HIS control? Oh poor little Gurinder boy.

"I know someone who is a RSSB and they smoke"

-- And what kind of dope (ganga,charas) were they smoking?

"you all had your say"

-- And you are certainy welcome to have your say too. Please tell us more.

Tao is the way the shabd the light the sound
Tao is the critic who has not gone inside
tao is the seeker of love but who does not give love
tao is the perpertrator of sincere intellectual refinement
tao has not initiated a single soul
tao has never fed anyone but himself
tao is not a charitable hospital
tao is not darshan from a realised soul filled with love
tao is about truth
tao is bitter because he has not experirienced bliss
like Fu'e Fu'e
Otherwise why is he so bitter.?
Come to Samoa -Tao and meditate on the Tao,shabd,logos
and be happy Tao-be happy -be natural-relax and be human
Your bitterness will go in proportion to the love you give,
I promise you I have seen two shabd teachers 30 cm away and they are just like you
no bullshit -just truth-just like like you Tao.
One difference-they dont have to type letters in the internet-
they write books-perhaps you have read Huzurs book The Master Answers,Thus Sait The Master-Huzur would agree with you -do not follow any master hastily, research, weigh up take your time,resist resist until you can npt resist any more.It is time gained not time lost.
Im allowed to share my experiences and say that NO one was forced to be initiated.If people blame the teacher -their problem -they could nt cut it so they skipped class.
I hve a beautiful peace of mind within me-like you and I have a human emotional ,imperfect machine alongside this plateaux of bliss.We all want,I have been on this path for over 25 years,-its
not easy but you keep going.Love is fuelled by love and as your namesake denotes Tao=the wind,the nameless,the shabd,the music of the spheres,the wairua, te mauri etc-so why Tao are you so filled
with insulting language.Ruhani Satsangis can get re intiated by Baba Ji just as many other "satsangis" have-go ahead Know thyself by thyself believe not at all what others may say.
By the way Kirpal Singh was not given permission to initiate anyone-all you haters of RSSB and Charan Singh etc I feel so sorry for you.So jealous of dera,so envious of all th 2.5 million "mentally ill" satsangis just like you with exactly the same problems-welcome to a NEW BIRTH-after a painful death perhaps
perhaps you white middle class haters of Baba Ji etc will be reborn as delhi street children not far from Pusa Rd -where Baba Ji may extend his love and give you Tao darshan.Radha Soami bro.alofa


OR, well, maybe
go with this Mr. TAo:


Thanks kindly to GRNose for the Jain link.

And actually, I am already very familiar and also quite fond of the Jain spirit and view. And in fact, I have known some very wonderful and wise Jains, and which, if you are interested in the real essence of Jain spirituality, you may learn more about that here:







Dadashri.org Main Index:


Dadabhagwan.org Main Index:



About Pratikraman:



Richard Fu'e Fu'e wrote:

"Tao is the critic who has not gone inside"

-- You virtually nothing about me. You know not where I have gone, or whaer I am at. I am already deeper inside than you will ever know.

"tao is the seeker of love but who does not give love"

-- I am not a "seeker" of love or a seeker of anything. I am not like you. I am not seeking anything. And love cannot be sought. If you had any real wisdom, you would know that.

"tao has not initiated a single soul"

-- Wrong again. You do not know about me, or about who my students are, or who or how many I have inititated, or not inititated. You know nothing about me or my spiritual life and reality. You are just another typical satsangi follower. Thats fine for you, but it does not make you informed about me.

"tao has never fed anyone but himself"

-- Wrong again. As a matter of fact, I myself have actually fed and given food and clothingto many thousands of people. - Literally. And I, as well as other Doctors in my family, have also provided medical care to many many thousands of people in the US and other countries. And I myself have also fed hundreds of people/seekers spiritually. So again, you make false and unfounded assertions and statements that have no basis in real fact or truth. That is dishonest of you.

"tao is not a charitable hospital"

-- That is correct, I am NOT a "hospital"... I am an awakened human being. But I have helped to build several hospitals, and I am a Naturopathic Doctor, and I also come from 4 generations of very renowned and respected Medical Doctors who were each also great servants of humanity in the field of Medicine. So again, your statement is faulty.

"tao is not darshan from a realised soul"

-- You don't know anything about me, or about my state of Realization. I am an awakened realized being. Nothing you can say can ever alter or diminsh that fact and reality. Your shallow words and your erroneous presumptions about me are less even than like smoke in the wind.

"tao is bitter because he has not experirienced bliss like Fu'e Fu'e"

-- As far as I can see, as much as is evident in the words that you write, you know nothing about genuine bliss. And you also know nothing about me, or about what I have experienced, or about my state of consciousness. The fact that you think and assume that I am "bitter", proves that.

"why is he so bitter.?"

-- I am not "bitter" at all, I have no reason to be bitter about anything. If you think I am bitter about RS, then you are grossly mistaken. I couldn't care less about RS. However, the question really is: Why are you so presumptious when you are so uninformed, and therfore so grossly mistaken? It's likely to be because, since you are a loyal RS satsangi and follower, that you presume to somehow know about others who are critical of RS. So it's your way of trying to cast shadows and aspersions upon those like myself who are critical of your kind of empty guru-cult dogma, and your blind faith in it. But all you really do, is to make more of a fool of yourself when you say things that are not founded in fact.

"meditate on the Tao,shabd,logos
and be happy Tao-be happy -be natural-relax and be human"

-- The TAO is not "shabd,logos". And I certainly don't need to "be happy" or to "relax". I abide naturaly in the self-perfected state of 'instant presence' - primordial awareness.

"Your bitterness will go in proportion to the love you give"

-- I have no "bitterness", and I love cannot ever be given. The bitterness that you imagine is really your own because you are the one who imagines it, and its probably because of your hang-up in that you don't like other people criticising RS, so underneath it all, you are bitter about that. Thats why you falsely imagine bitterness in others. But its really your own bitterness that you are projecting onto others. Go see a therapist. They will tell you the very same thing. You need to work on your own bitterness, and not project it outwardly onto others like myself

"I promise you I have seen two shabd teachers 30 cm away and they are just like you ... just like like you Tao."

-- No. They are not like me. First of all, I am not a "shabd teacher". And secondly, I am not at all like these people that you are referring to. I don't do what they do or believe what they believe. And I don't play roles.

"they dont have to type letters in the internet"

-- I don't "have" to do anything. I do whatever I choose to do because I am free to do as I please. I don't have mental limitations or contrived restrictions like you or others apparently do.

"they write books-perhaps you have read Huzurs book The Master Answers,Thus Sait The Master"

-- I have read all the RS books. But so what? I am NOT impressed. Not impresed at all. I myself also have written books and papers as well. And I can say, in all honesty, that what I write is far more meaningful and more insightful and more applicable than the bulk of RS dogma that "they" write.

"Huzur would agree with you"

-- I don't know if thats so true. I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about. I had spoken to him in private on several occasions over the years, and he and I did NOT always agree. He also clearly lacked understanding and experience in some particular areas, and I also did not agree with him with regard to some other issues. Also, he was a lawyer and the an administrator of an organization, he was not a spiritually enlightened Sage as some naive folks seem to have imagined.

"take your time,resist resist until you can npt resist any more."

-- I don't need to "take time". I have devoted almost 50 years to spiritual pursuit and sadhana and experience. Nor do I need to "resist", nor am I resisting anything. As I said before, I am into abiding in the self-perfected state of 'instant presence'. I don't need your false assumptions and contrived nonsense.

"my experiences ... say that NO one was forced to be initiated."

-- That is correct, no one is "forced". But so what? That does not prove anything. That does not mean that the dogma and the issues of Santmat and the RS cult cannot be questioned or criticised. Your point is a lame defense.

"If people blame the teacher -their problem -they could nt cut it"

-- That is not necessariy true. Sometimes it is the fault of the teacher and what the teacher teaches, ans sometimes it is the fault of the student. It works both ways. So your point is again another lame defense.

"I have a human emotional, imperfect machine alongside this plateaux of bliss."

-- I would not say that the human body-mind is "imperfect". And I simply don't know what your supposed "plateaux of bliss" is, or if it is at all.

"I have been on this path for over 25 years,-its not easy but you keep going."

-- You mean that YOU "keep going". But jst because YOU keep going, does not mean that doing so is either wise or reasonable. It may or may not be. That is your choice. It has nothing to do with others.

"as your namesake denotes Tao=the wind,the nameless,the shabd,the music of the spheres,"

-- TAO does not mean "the wind", or "the nameless", or "the shabd", or "the music of the spheres". The term "TAO" is not any of those notions. Its not may namesake either. It is just an ID for use on this blog forum, and nothing more significant than that. So don't try to put some trip on me realted to the term TAO.

"so why Tao are you so filled with insulting language."

-- I generally do not use so-called "insulting language". So for you to say "filled with insuting language" is quite erroneous and incorrect. Once in a while I use certain terms to make a point or to draw attention to something. Its really none of your concern. I am not subject to your approval. And in this case, your assertion is extremely shallow at best.

"Ruhani Satsangis can get re intiated by Baba Ji just as many other "satsangis" have-go ahead"

-- This is another indication that you are not well informed or aware of where I am at. I am not a "Ruhani Satsangi" and never have been. I was an initiate of Charan Singh of the Radha Soami Mat. No do I wish to or need to get "re-initiated" by anyone. I have absolutely no need to do so, nor any interest in doing such things. So it's quite clear to me that due to your ack of insight and factual knowledge, you are really 'barking up the wrong tree' here.

"Know thyself by thyself believe not at all what others may say."

-- Then you should practice this - what you preach, insteading of preaching about it.

"Kirpal Singh was not given permission to initiate anyone-all you haters of RSSB and Charan Singh etc I feel so sorry for you."

-- I am not a Kirpal follower, nor have I ever been. I care not what "permission" he had or did not have. That issue is totally irrelevant to me. And fyi, I also do not "hate" the RSSB or Charan Singh. But I do "feel sorry" for people like you who don't know what the hell they are babbling and fussing about.

"So jealous of dera, so envious of all th 2.5 million "mentally ill" satsangis just like you with exactly the same problems"

-- I don't know about anyone else, but I have no such jealously of the Dera. I have been there many times. I have no reason to be "jealous" of the place or the RSSB. I am also not "envious" of millions of satsangis. However, these satsangis and their problems are definitely NOT "just like" me at all. Not like me at all. But for you to think so, shows just how very mistaken and ignorant you are.

"perhaps you white middle class haters of Baba Ji etc will be reborn as delhi street children not far from Pusa Rd"

-- First of all, I am NOT a "white middle class". Second, I am not a "hater" of your so-called "Baba Ji". And third, I have been to and stayed at the RS complex at Pusa Road many times, and nor do I have any need to worry about being "reborn" there. I have lived all over India as a sadhu for years. I have paid my dues there. There is no possiblity of being "reborn" there. That is just a silly notion put forth by someone who has yet to be awakened.

"Baba Ji may extend his love and give you Tao darshan."

-- I am not intertested in this so-called "Baba Ji", or in anything to do with him. He is absoutley nobody to me. He is merely just another ordinary Indian guy who just happens to be the appointed head of a religious cult. Nothing more. But he would certainly benefit from coming to meet me, if he but had the awareness of me and and the good sense and intelligence to do so.

"Radha Soami bro."

-- Thanks, but "Radha Soami" is really just another ritual greeting or parting, just like any other of many similar phrases. It is used by RS satsangis, but I myself don't give it any special significance.

The next time you get the urge to make a bunch of unfounded or mistaken or nonsense assertions about someone such as myself, I would advise you to think about what it is that you are actually saying and asserting before you do. Otherwise, you are only talking a load of rubbish.

Good luck.

Tao has done nothing. For we are not aware of what he has done. Our awareness hasn't gotten the chance to know exactly what Tao has done.

Tao, by all means, could very well be Satan himself, I myself could, in your opinions, be Satan.

Nobody is anything. We are all fools to believe the words of others. We are also fools to not believe in the words of others.

It's all your experience. Tao can say this and that, and I can say this and that, but ignore both of us and make your own conclusions.


This is all my opinion, so I am not forcing it, I'm just leaving up to the readers to decide whether they believe words of random people or their own direct experience.

How do you know that Tao isn't Satan's agent? Tao may not know but he could be an agent of the negative power, like David Lane was and still is after his new plastic surgery.

I myself don't know anything. I haven't meditated that far yet in Sant Mat. But all I know is that we know nothing until we try it ourselves and prove to ourselves that the theory or belief is wrong or right. Sant Mat is the highest of all Theories because of what it claims we all inherited by being born humans. Satan doesn't want you to know your inheritance because you really do have a golden opportunity to inherit it all.

You can Say Sant Mat is for gullible people, But we will not believe you for we know that Sant Mat says that your type of personality shows signs of being an agent of the negative power.

radha soami is a path to reach the guru by meditiate

first radha soami to all
i m from sydney
main dasna chahunda ha ki mainu kyee lok(friends)
mainu es karke nai like karde kyunki main radha soami ha oh radha soami baare bhut galat ate use less word use karde han par mainu ohna de khi kise v gal da koi farak nai painda.babaji v satsang vich eh hi kehnde a k jina koi marji gallan kde us val tyan na do.satsang vich v dsia janda hai ki ik haathi zameen te pia khand da dana nai kha sakda jekar oh khaan d koshish krega ta usde muh vich mitti chlee javegi par ik chhoti jehi kiri us khand de dane da anand lai sakdi hai.mera kehan da matlab eh hai k saanu hamesha man niva rakhna chahida hai hankaar ik din bande nu khaa janda hai.asi jine marzi ameer kyu na hoyiye par saanu hameha hi pyaar naal bolna chahida hai agle da man v apne aap hi neeva ho jauga.

first radha soami to all
i m from sydney
main dasna chahunda ha ki mainu kyee lok(friends)
mainu es karke nai like karde kyunki main radha soami ha oh radha soami baare bhut galat ate use less word use karde han par mainu ohna de khi kise v gal da koi farak nai painda.babaji v satsang vich eh hi kehnde a k jina koi marji gallan kde us val tyan na do.satsang vich v dsia janda hai ki ik haathi zameen te pia khand da dana nai kha sakda jekar oh khaan d koshish krega ta usde muh vich mitti chlee javegi par ik chhoti jehi kiri us khand de dane da anand lai sakdi hai.mera kehan da matlab eh hai k saanu hamesha man niva rakhna chahida hai hankaar ik din bande nu khaa janda hai.asi jine marzi ameer kyu na hoyiye par saanu hameha hi pyaar naal bolna chahida hai agle da man v apne aap hi neeva ho jauga.


Hey dimiwit, this Blog forum is all in ENGISH... can't you see that?

What do you think you are doing? Are you stupid?

Please post your comments in English so that others (who cannot read Punjabi or Hindi) can actually read and understand them.

It's very rude and unfair to others to post comments on an English language Blog in a language that most of us here cannot translate or understand.

Unfortunately, this is just another example of what I mean about the stupidity and foolishness that is exhibited by so many of these Radha Soami cult members.

And I hope that Brian deletes these posts of yours until you start writing them in proper English.

So please RE-WRITE your previous comments, and write them in the English language the next time as well.

मंजीत सिंह ,

आप एक मूर्ख मूर्ख है . आप एक मंद मूर्ख है . कृपया अपने सिर को एक जाने की छड़ी और फिर फ्लश शौचालय है .

पुरातन का पुनरुद्धार

इतिहास है क्योंकि Dominator संस्कृति को समाप्त होने के कारण मानव प्रजाति को एक अंधी गली , और अपरिहार्य chaostrophie दृष्टिकोण के रूप में , लोगों की तलाश के उत्तर और रूपकों . हर बार जब कोई संस्कृति में परेशानी हो जाता है निर्मोक स्वयं पीठ में पिछले तलाश के अंतिम क्षण समझदार कभी यह जानता था . समझदार और अंतिम क्षण था पर जानता था कि हम कभी अफ्रीका के मैदानी इलाकों में 15000 साल पहले भीषण पालना सींग कुकुरमुत्ता देवी के महान ... इतिहास से पहले , सेनाओं खड़े होने से पहले , गुलामी से पहले और संपत्ति है , और युद्ध से पहले और एकेश्वरवाद ध्वन्यात्मक वर्णमाला से पहले से पहले , के पहले .

और यह भविष्य में ले रहा है , जहां हमें विश्वास है क्योंकि गुप्त बीसवीं सदी के आधुनिकता नहीं है , बीसवीं सदी के गुप्त विश्वास है यादों के लिए पुरातन , यादों के लिए paleolithic है , और हमें देता है कि शरीर छिदाने , सार expressionism , अतियथार्थवाद , जाज़ , रॉक - n - रोल और आपदा सिद्धांत है . 20 वीं सदी के मन nostalgic के लिए स्वर्ग है कि एक बार अस्तित्व पर कुकुरमुत्ता dotted अफ्रीका के मैदानी इलाकों जहां संयंत्र के मानव सिम्बियोसिस हुई है कि हमें बाहर खींच पशु के शरीर में और उपकरण का प्रयोग कर के , संस्कृति बनाने , कल्पना की तलाश है कि प्राणी हम कर रहे हैं . और इस मामले में क्यों करता है ? क्योंकि यह पता चलता है कि यह मामलों के उपाय और फिर है कि भविष्य में आगे की ओर पलायन पिछले . यह क्या मतलब है मनोदैहिक अनुभव है . इसके द्वार के बाहर एक और इतिहास में wiring के तहत बोर्ड में अनंत काल है . और इस कारण मैं तुम क्या समझते हैं तो यह इस समुदाय की मान्यता यह है कि यह बेहतर होगा कि इस समुदाय को एक साथ करने में सक्षम बनाने के लिए खुद को उड़ान hyperspace क्योंकि हम क्या जरूरत है एक नया मिथक , कि हम क्या आवश्यकता है एक नई कहानी सच है कि हमें बताता है जहां हम ब्रह्मांड में जा रहा है और सच है कि कहानी यह है कि एक उत्पाद है अहं की विकृति , जब psilocybin है और नियमित रूप से भाग के मानव का अनुभव है अहं के दमन और supression का अर्थ है अहं की हार के dominators , materialists , उत्पाद peddlers . Psychedelics वापसी करने के लिए हमें स्वयं के मूल्य के भीतरी , के महत्व को तत्काल की भावना का अनुभव है -- और कोई नहीं बेच सकते हैं कि आपको कोई नहीं खरीद सकते हैं और इसे आप से है , इसलिए Dominator संस्कृति में रुचि नहीं है महसूस की उपस्थिति के तत्काल अनुभव , लेकिन क्या मानती है कि इस समुदाय के साथ है . और हम तोड़ के रूप में सिली के मिथकों विज्ञान , और शिशु obsessions के बाजार के माध्यम से हम क्या पता मनोदैहिक अनुभव यह है कि शरीर में है . है , शरीर में हैं Niagras के सौंदर्य , विदेशी सौंदर्य , कि विदेशी आयामों का हिस्सा हैं स्वयं के , जीवन का सबसे अमीर का हिस्सा है . मैं सोचता हूँ कि कब्र की जा रही को बिना किसी तरह का अनुभव करने जा रही मनोदैहिक के गंभीर होने के बिना कभी सेक्स है . इसका अर्थ यह है कि आप सूची से बाहर क्या यह कभी नहीं होता है . यह रहस्य है और शरीर में जिस तरह से काम करता है शरीर में ही प्रकृति .

क्या अर्थ है पुनरुद्धार के पुराने shamanism , ecstacy , orgiastic कामुकता , और हार के तीन लोगों की दुश्मन हैं . और तीन लोगों की दुश्मन हैं आधिपत्य , एकपत्नीत्व और एकरसता है ! और यदि आपको उन पर चलने के पसीने लोगों dominators आपके पास है , क्योंकि इसका अर्थ यह है कि आपके सभी reconnected मिल रहा है , और इसे प्राप्त करने का अर्थ है कि सभी reconnected लाने के विचार अलग separateness और आत्म fetish परिभाषा के माध्यम से बात की है . इसका अर्थ है कि फैशन के दोहन में सभी से जुड़े Gaian मस्तिष्क , मन और Gaian है कि हम क्या कर रहे हैं कॉल करने के मनोदैहिक अनुभव है . इसका एक अनुभव के रहने वाले तथ्य के साधन के ग्रह है . और बिना अनुभव है कि हम घूमना फर्जी विचारधाराओं के जंगल में एक है . लेकिन अनुभव के साथ कि इस कंपास का स्वयं सेट किया जा सकता है , और यह भी कि इस विचार के हैं ; figuring से बाहर कैसे पुनर्स्थापित करने के लिए स्वयं के माध्यम से समुदाय के कंपास , नृत्य के माध्यम से खुश हैं , के माध्यम से psychedelics , कामुकता , खुफिया , खुफिया . यह वही है जो हमें पास बनाने के लिए आगे की ओर पलायन को hyperspace .

Dear Brian,

Please delete nothing (other than the spam which you silently have chosen to omit). The crap in languages I cannot read just seems to be like much of the crap that is written in English here on your blog. It just seems that crap is crap is crap - no matter what its language.

Robert Paul Howard

Robert, I'm not bothered much when someone writes a comment in another language. It perplexes me, but then I'm perplexed by lots of things. If someone else can get some meaning from it, and it isn't an ad for penis enlargement (not that I'd know), what the heck?

And I've had the same thought as you about writings in English. Sometimes I don't understand what someone is saying, even though I can understand the separate words. However, I assume that others get more meaning out of the writing than I do.

Από το Brian δεν μυαλό ξένων γλωσσών για το blog του, νομίζω ότι θα ξεκινήσουν την επικοινωνία στα ελληνικά. Η γλώσσα αυτή είναι ιδιαίτερα καλή για έκφρασης των φιλοσοφικών ζητημάτων και υπάρχει λιγότερη αμφισημία. Οι χρήστες μπορούν να χρησιμοποιούν τη γλώσσα της επιλογής όπως ρωσικά, σλοβακικά, σουαχίλι και μανταρινιές κινεζικά.

Brian non mente lingue straniere sul suo blog, in modo quindi penso che dovremmo iniziare a comunicare in italiano. La lingua italiana è molto buona per l'espressione di sentimenti, e non vi è meno ambiguo e più passione.

بريان لا يوجد مانع لغات أجنبية على بلدة بلوق ، حتى ذلك الحين اعتقد اننا ينبغي ان يبدأ الاتصال باللغه العربية. اللغة العربية هي جيدة جدا للتعبير عن المشاعر الخفيه ، وهناك ما هو اكثر من اقل من الصقل والغموض

Brian n'a pas l'esprit des langues étrangères sur son blog, alors je pense que nous devrions commencer à communiquer en français. La langue française est très bon pour l'expression de sentiments subtils, et il ya plus de raffinement et moins d'ambiguïté.

Брайан не виду иностранных языков на своем блоге, так что я думаю, мы должны начать общаться на русском языке. Русский язык очень подходит для выражения тонких чувств, и это еще не все доработки и менее двусмысленность.

Brian har inget emot främmande språk på sin blogg, så tror jag att vi borde börja kommunicera på svenska. Det svenska språket är mycket bra för uttrycket av subtila känslor, och det finns mer förfinade och mindre tvetydig.

Brian no le importa las lenguas extranjeras en su blog, así que creo que deberíamos comenzar a comunicarse en español. El idioma español es muy bueno para la expresión de sentimientos sutiles, y hay más refinamiento y menos ambigüedad.

Brian nicht Verstand Fremdsprachen in seinem Blog, so dass ich dann denke, wir sollten beginnen, die Kommunikation in deutscher Sprache. Die deutsche Sprache ist sehr gut für den Ausdruck von subtilen Gefühle, und es gibt mehr Raffinesse und weniger Mehrdeutigkeit.

Шипка не се има предвид, чужди езици, по своя блог, така че после Мисля, ние трябва да започне комуникация в Bugarian. На български език е много добър за изразяване на фините усещания, и има повече и по-малко уточнение неопределеност.

ताओ ब्रायन नहीं है पर उसके मन में विदेशी भाषाओं के ब्लॉग इसलिए मैं सोचता हूँ कि हम शुरू करने के लिए हिन्दी में होना चाहिए यह हिन्दी भाषा में बहुत अच्छी है व्यक्त सूक्ष्म दार्शनिक और अधिक शोधन और कम अस्पष्टता है ताओ

tAo wrote:


"Hey dimiwit, this Blog forum is all in ENGLISH... can't you see that?

What do you think you are doing? Are you stupid?"

--You have no idea how hard I laughed at this comment.

Reminds me of Laurel and Hardy in the "Piano Movers" about these two dimwits attempting to get a piano up a long flight of stairs and into a house. By the time they were finished, the piano and the house were wrecked. Super funny. Gotta rent it again sometime if it's on CD.

hi radhasoami to all?
i accidentaly come to this site while surfing net i fail to understand what this site is?
those who belive should not visit such sites and give reply. i m sorry this is my personal opinion u may or may not follow it.

sanjay, why do you feel that those who believe shouldn't visit web sites where people question those beliefs?

Is faith so shaky that a question can destroy it? Shouldn't the believer test his or her faith against questioners rather than remaining blind to other ways of looking at reality?

I don't see how sticking one's head in the sand gets a person closer to a clear vision of what life is all about. But that's just me. I realize that others have the view that blinders are better than a wider perspective.

A big DITTO to Brian's last comment.

“Give me the man who doubts. He is better off than the one who is living in an illusion of faith.”

Guess who said this earlier this year - Gurinder. He tries to get people to pull their heads out of the sand, but mostly people prefer to use Sant Mat as a comfortable religion. (which is easy to do).

He (Gurinder) may try to APPEAR as if he is trying to get people to pull their heads out of the sand, but then he goes and puts their heads right back into some more of the same old "sand" of sant mat dogma and guru-cultism.

So whatever he says is all bullshit and hypocrisy. It's what he DOES that matters... not what he says. And so I would not even bother paying attention to anything that a stupid fraudulent fool like him says.

I visited this site first time and agree with the purpose of the site . Some beautiful thoughts. Love to all of you.

In the morning breeze, your scent, whoever inhaled
A close friend these familiar words, in his ear hailed;
O King of Goodness, glance at this beggar’s state
Of beggars and kings this ear heard many tales, quite detailed.
With this aromatic wine, I satisfy my soul’s appetite
I’ve seen robe wearing priests that many deceptions trailed.
God’s secrets that the godly man silently kept
How in the world the wine-seller so clearly unveiled?
O God where is the one who knows and sees
To open up the secrets that in my heart are jailed.
It was not fair to punish my godly heart
With abuse, my heart bitterly cried and wailed.
If I was deprived in my longing, say naught
Kindness of fate from this hardship, none bailed.
Come bring me wine, my love cries out loud
Heard it from ourselves, whoever our tale detailed.
This is not the first time we covertly drink the wine
Master of the tavern caught us in the act each time we exhaled.
This is not a first for drinking to the song of the harp
Many turns the Wheel of Fate this familiar turn scaled.
Advice of the wise comes from a deep goodness within
Beside the one who understood, even heavenly bliss paled.
Hafiz in duty the ocean of prayer sailed
Regardless of if his prayer was granted or failed.

The comments about leadership of RSSBA being narrow minded are somewhat deserved. They do tend to be strong in their beliefs, and a bit too dogmatic with the party line. That is not a bad thing, FOR THEM. To their credit, they neither charge a cent nor proseletize. You will never see a RSSBA ad in the paper or a tythe request.
Your protests hold a lot of bitterness. There is a practice called Pratikaram you may want to try. Just to yourself, bring the offensive RSSBA things to mind, and try to see the people and events as pure souls, and also try to yourself, let go enough to acknowledge that maybe you have not always been the victim/recipient of evil. Good luck. OM Shanti.


I believe that RSSBA probably means RSSB of America.

i went through whole of the site and i believe that it all depends upon one's perception of understanding the things and most important is that how much you have expolored yourself.because their are things which takes time for us to understand and we can understand them only when we widen our horizons.and those who are blaming radha soami for not attaining the bliss, my friends either you are not perceiving the teaching correctly or you are not working hard on it.

...or that "the teaching" is wrong in and of itself.

Robert Paul Howard


You're just another lame-brain who doesn't know diddly-squat about the issues here.

For instance, for you to say "their are things which takes time for us to understand and we can understand them only when we widen our horizons", clearly shows that you simply have NOT read much, if anything on this site.

Many here (starting with the author/founder of this blog), have taken a hell of alot of time (30+ years each) to research and test-drive RS, and we definitely DO understand (and a hell of a lot more than you do), and our "horizons" (and our collective experience) are far greater and far wider than your pitifly narrow and ignorant little view. That is quite evident in your incredibly ignorant assertion that we "are not working hard on it".

So this all makes you just another presumptious little RS snot, with no real knowledge, experience, or wisdom to back you up.

Also, no one is "blaming radha soami for not attaining the bliss". Bliss is an individual matter. We are blaming radha soami for selling its followers a fake guru and a phony bill of goods, and the followers for being fools and not being discriminating.

It is YOU who "are not perceiving the teaching correctly", and it is YOU who are not perceiving clearly the arguements and facts that have been put forth on this site.

If you actually have something substantial and credible to offer us in the way of evidence or proof that RS and its guru is what it claims to be and to do, then lets see it. Otherwise, you are just another stupid blind RS sychophant coming here to tout the same old lame-ass dogma.

So lets hear what you have to say, if you have anything real to say in defense of RS.

(actually, you are probably just another cheap hit-and-run poster, who hasn't got the guts to hang around long enough to engage in any intelligent dialog)


you have left a long trail of evidence on this site for any sober and sane person to see clearly - that it doesn't require intelligence to hurl abuse or to strut your John Wayne-George Bush attitude.

You and your sister Tucson's postings say nothing so well.

mariska hargitay


What's wrong with John Wayne?

You don't like his movie image of being a stand-up guy in the face of adversity? He was a symbol of character and strength who wouldn't back down to challenges as you have done to most of those placed before you on this blog.

We need more like him and fewer like you.

Ahhh... poor little Brady boy is back. Well I guess it's because his RS meditation isn't going so well for him these days. And he seems so terribly uptight about American culture and the American people, and also so very lacking in reason and discriminative wisdom and the ability to engage in intelligent critical thinking.

However... I have a possible solution for what ails him:

If he would simply go and listen to a streaming internet radio program (via the following links), for about 3 to 4 hours each day or evening (during the weekdays), and do this for a few weeks stretch or more, then he actually may be able to gain some intelligent perspective and thus actually become a truly informed and educated individual... instead of the whiney little snot with his head stuck up his rather ignorant ass, that he is at the present time.

Here is the main Infowars.com homepage:


And here is the Infowars.com internet radio program Listening Page (which gives different media player options etc):


This excellent program runs LIVE from 11am to 2pm Central Time (USA), and then it repeats again every 4 hours - up until the following day's next live show. (So you can actually tune in ANYTIME during the day or night that is convienent for you.) (Adjust the timing for your local time zone)

I highly recommend listening to this most informative internet radio program (and the Infowars sites) to all the other Churchless readers, if they are not already doing so.

Also some Infowars additional sister sites:




So, Listen... and Learn

Dear Sisters Tao and Tucson

Didnt anyone tell you John Wayne (JW) aint so cool anymore. Severe piles I think, or was it just a beeg carrot.

But then again the yanks would never admit they were wrong. They'd just keep on walking bow-legged into the sunset, 'n spittin into the sand.

Yeah its cool stinkn the place up and being the town cowboy to kickass. Sense and sensibility was never part of the equation.

Its all about how much you can copy-paste n challenge to a brute force showdown.

I read the posts from Nick in the UK. You all got your asses whipped but good.

Now that he's outa town you can try strut your stuff, but its all quite trifling in comparison.

You must concede the more eloquent role to your unpastor. He's the best of you sorry lot.

I stop by here periodically for a good laugh.

Imagine two hairy JW sisters trying to squeeze their swollen feet into that delicate glass slipper.

Its a hoot.

Brad said (showing his sophomoric side):

"Didnt anyone tell you John Wayne (JW) aint so cool anymore. Severe piles I think, or was it just a beeg carrot."

--John Wayne's problem was lung cancer. He died of it decades ago. I knew the man because his house was next door to a girlfriend's of mine in
Balboa (near Newport Beach). He invited us for a spin on his yacht. Nice guy. Down to earth and courageous, like some of his characters, in the face of his disease. True Grit indeed.

It sounds like Brad is gay. In fact, I'd even bet on it.

Only flaming gay dudes feel the need to challenge other guy's manhood by calling them "sisters".

You can come out of your closet now Brady-boy. Tucson and I aren't exactly what you would call Liberals, but I'm sure we won't mind that you are just a poor frustrated little fag because your balls have been castrated.

And oh btw little Brad, you clearly don't know shit from shinola when it comes to old John Wayne... or about "yanks" either.

And the funny thing is, I too met the man. My uncle, who was a renowned medical doctor, was good personal friends with John Wayne. In fact, John Wayne even came to visit my uncle (who right lived next-door to us when I was young), and we all went over to meet him and hang out with him. He was an awfully nice guy, and a pillar of strength and virtue (as was my uncle as well).

A puny little fag like Brad could never even approach the kind of honorable man that John Wayne was.

In fact Brad, you're nothing but an awfully pathetic excuse for an RS satsangi even, and one who hates Americans just because they are Americans, and who especially hates sraight(hetrosexual) American guys who (unlike you) do have some balls.

And btw little fag-boy Brad, the only reason you (and the rest of Europe and Africa) aren't now speaking German (down there in South Africa) under the old Third Reich, is because us Americans had the strength and the guts to "keep on walking bow-legged into the sunset, 'n spittin into the sand" until we kicked their ass.

And your rather faggy "sense and sensibility" was definitely never part of the equation.

As for "the posts from Nick in the UK"... well you apparently didn't read right, because "Nick" (another little fag punk like yourself) got his, shall we say, philosophical ass whipped real damn bad.

And then he, like all the rest of the blowhard faggots that have passed through here, ran "outa town" with his tail under his but.

And just like Nick, your lame RS rhetoric is indeed "all quite trifling in comparison".

Also, fyi, I don't subscribe to "pastors"... or un-pastors. This Blog is a place for open-minded folks, not for bigots, racists, hypocrites, and bad-vibe dudes like you.

And one more thing littel fag-boy Brad...

In case you did not know it, you are in direct violation of the current Radha Soami leader/master's orders and instructions (published since the late 1990s). Namely, that ALL RSSB satsangis are to totally refrain from any and all posting of anything about Santmat or RS anywhere on the internet... and that includes e-mails, bulletin-board lists, newsgrops, discussion groups, chat-rooms, etc etc. These orders were published and diseminated to all RS satsangis in the USA and world-wide. They were published in print in all the USA RS newsletters prior to 2000. By coming to this blog-forum and debating and preaching Santmat/RS, you are violating the RSSB masters direct instructions and orders. These orders have thus far not been recinded. So either you are either (A)ignorant of these orders, or (B) you are a hypocrite because you are NOT following YOUR RS guru's direct instructions to refrain from the posting of anything or any discussions about Santmat/RS on the Internet. So anything that you have said here that is related to RS (and that's just about everything) is in complete VIOLATION of the current RS master's instructions given and published to all satsangis.

Just thought I'd let you know this... and that clearly, you are a wayward hypocrite satsangi, and you have been so right from your first posting here.

The rest of us don't claim to be loyal RS satsangi followers, so we don't comply with such ridiculous cult mind-contol nonsense that is issued by fraudulent authoriatrian cult-gurus such as current one at the RSSB.

Hey sister Tucson,

As an elder brother I must tell you that your insecurity about your own belief systems are so self evident in your writing style.

You and your sister Tao seem hell bent on forcing your fat hairy feet into the glass slipper of spirituality, that its both obscene and funny all at once.

You should ask Brian to setup a Facebook group for you folk, so you can post a photograph of yourself and your sister Tao. The entertainment value alone, will be priceless.

Of course I can understand that you dont want folk like Nick and I, or anyone with anti-views to your own, to watch this grotesque foot-in-the-slipper production.
So you make vain attempts at insulting us and waving RSSB rules that dont exist. You are so obviously out of the loop.

Its such fun watching your faces blotch red as you bluster and huff and puff sweet nothings.

And its great for passersby to see your engagement style, and your choice of antiquated John Wayne-George Bush role models.

Your associations too, speak volumes.

And yes, no matter how much you try - you remain a miserable follower of your more eloquent unpastor. And silly sister Tucson. The term unpastor was coined by Brian himself.

Also, I wouldnt wave that US flag too high. Its nothing to be proud of. Try scratching around in that dark closet of yours for that Humane Flag, or the flag of the Sincere Seeker. Its a long shot I know.

Oh by the way... even though your uncle may not be renowned anymore, Im sure his staff could prescribe a treatment for those haemorrhoids of yours.

Chat soon.

Hey sister Tucson

spelling 101....

butt is spelt with two t's

two T's like Tucson & Tao

two like 2 peas in a pod. or like two pees in the wind.

So Ms haemorrhoids, chat soon

Brad, I think you get tAo and me mixed up. Check who has signed the various comments.

It seems tAo has touched a nerve.

Anyway, this conversation has descended into a realm that isn't useful for anyone.

Dear tucson,

I agree. But why did you not address the same complaint to tAo some time before?

Robert Paul Howard


Before when?

My last comment came after the most recent posts by Brad and tAo to which it applied.

This is for Brad, since he seems so very out of touch and pitifully ill-informed with regard to who is who and what is what on this site and in this comment forum.

Brad, you just don't have a clue who I am or where I am at spiritually. And you apparently have not bothered to go back and read out of the archives. But there is quite a lot there to wade through, so I can't completely fault you for not taking lots of time to go back and educate yourself about where I am coming from and where I am at (or where Tucson is at).

However, I may be willing to give you some general idea of what my spiritual views are, and also why I find your attitude here so ignorant and uninformed, so arrogant, so narrow-minded, and so dogmatic... that is if you ask me in a respectful manner like other fellows in this forum do.

Up to this point, you have taken a particularly derogatory and ridiculing attitude towards the others here (including Brian) who don't subscribe to your rather uptight and dogmatic version of RS theology. And that is why you and your comments here have not been received very well.

In fact, ever since you appeared on this Blog forum, the quality of the dialog that you engender has steadily deterioated... all the way down to the low point that it is now.

Practically everything you have said regarding myself, or Tucson, or Brian, is so completely off the mark as to not even be within the ballpark. You haven't got a clue as to where I abide spiritually or what my sadhana and realization has been. There has been nothing relevant or accurate in any of your rather antagonistic comments about any of us here.

So I agree with Tucson (and I had even been meaning to say this some time ago) when he says: "this conversation has descended into a realm that isn't useful for anyone." If you wish other people here to treat you with respect and tolerance, then you must do the same. But you have not. Not even from the beginning. You came here with the obvious intent to challenge us regarding RS, and to make trouble. But as I said in my previous post, by doing so, you are in diect violation of the current RSSB master's orders prohibiting all RS satsangis from discussing Santmat on the internet. So you obviously don't respect the RS master's wishes either.

So Brad, all of this adds up to your being nothing more than a shallow and ill-informed hypocrite.

If your intent here was, or is sincere, then you would have surely shown that by now. So far, yor track record is pretty bad.

Before I go, I will again reiterate that you clearly do not have any understanding of where I am at spiritually, or the facts, the whys and the wherefores of my philosphical views. The worst thing you can do is to make false and unfounded assertions about the spirituality of others, especially when you know nothing about them. So it wold behoove you to educate yourself before jumping to such ignorant and derogatory conclusions about people you know nothing about.

And also btw, and fyi, I have admitted many times (and everyone here knows) that I do occasionally make typos, but that does not reflect on my spelling skills or level of education whatsoever. I type fairly fast and thus make frequent typing mistakes, and I don't proof-read much. But this is no big fucking deal. However, for you to attempt to use very minor typos as a basis for personal criticism and ridicule, shows how pathtically desperate and eager you are to take any opportunity to disparage others (like myself) who don't subscribe to your extremely narrow, intolerant, and unenlightened guru-CULT dogma mentality.

So far, your style here has been not much more than that of an RS internet troll. However I do hope you will be able to come to a bit more affable stance in this group... otherwise almost no one here is going to take you seriously.

Dear Sirs,

I was absent on this blog for several months for no specific reason but I was busy with my younger daughter’s admission to college. With her not so hard working attitude towards studies but of course an intelligent one, she scored 90%. I could have avoided my explanation.

I am loving it to be back to this blog. I am finding that the things are absolutely same. Exchange of views are being dealt with same tone. Of course, contents have changed.

I shall love to cast my specific views in a day or so.

With regards to one & all.

Hello Tao

I was reading your post with interest. For a few minutes I thought you may have written a post without swearing or defensively attacking someone.

Sorry for you, you never made it.

But dont worry... lots of space left on the internet for you to keep posting away.

Dear sister Tao (is that really your name?), i have been incredibly affable with you, regardless of your constant vitriol (check out the meaning at www.dictionary.com )and spelling mistakes.

Very impressive your 'behoove' bit. Grand. really grand and sonorous. But still, the brief effort of yours to engage on this blog in any meaningful way ... well, just isnt happening.

And when you so generously offered 'However, I may be willing to give you some general idea of what my spiritual views are', I really could help but cringe. No more swearing and aggression please.

Mutter mutter, bread and butter!

So sweetly said - 'However I do hope you will be able to come to a bit more affable stance in this group... ', but then your reflex habit of threatening kicked in again with 'otherwise almost no one here is going to take you seriously.'

Silly sister Tao. Dont you know?
I dont need any validation from you or anyone from your tea party.

Play nice.

Dear tucson,

Before 10:09 AM (PDT) on August 20, 2008.

Robert Paul Howard

Brad said (in quotations):

"For a few minutes I thought you may have written a post without swearing or defensively attacking someone."

-- Well then how's about this one for ya Brad: FUCK OFF!

"Tao (is that really your name?)"

-- None of your damn business, you pathetic little RS goon.

"i have been incredibly affable with you"

-- In your wildest dreams maybe. You are clearly delusional. But that's quite typical of RS sansangi cult-heads like yourself.

"still, the brief effort of yours to engage on this blog in any meaningful way ... well, just isnt happening."

-- Oh poor little Brad... Then you'd best go back and read the mountain of Churchless archives, you insipid religious moron.

"And when you so generously offered '...willing to give you some general idea of what my spiritual views are', I really could help but cringe."

-- That's good. Because thanks for revealing how utterly disingenuous and hypocritical you really are, and that you really are nothing more than a troll for RS.

"No more swearing and aggression please."

-- Well in that case, since you are such an incorrigibly retarded faggot... How about this: FUCK OFF to the 10th power!

And Brad, lest I forget... At this point, almost no one here does take you seriously.

"I dont need any validation from you or anyone from your tea party."

-- Problem is Brad... YOU have NO validity here AT ALL. Only in your own delusional little mind. And your RSSB doesn't give a fuck about you either. You are nothing more than an arrogant pseudo-spiritual cult-goon who carries a big bag of dogma shit, but zero experience.

PS: I got news for ya Brad... We don't play by your rules here. Cult goons, trolls, and jackasses like you are eventually ignored, until they finally just leave. We aren't interested in that same old RS authoritarian religious bullshit.


First time visited this blog....
dont know what is exactly all of you are fighting for...
is it really religion? its just the differences in thought of 2 individuals... Nobdy can force ny 1 to choose ny religion... rit?
So y is it that we all r fighting for like more than 2 years... on this blog...
Come on tao, u tell me what religion or path is that you follow...?

tell us what are the things that you feel are very nice and which others should also follow...
make every minute of your life useful to urslf nd others..
Y r we talking just about the bad things abt ny path... where as there are alot many good things we can talk about...
Every Second is Important... make the best use out of it...

Mnk, I don't know what you mean by "fighting." What goes on here is living.

Discussing. Sharing. Questioning. Laughing. Arguing.

If I may be so bold (and, why, I think I will be), I'd like to suggest that you've fallen into a restricted view of what a loving, caring, nice, productive life is about.

In my opinion (and that's all I have), life isn't about following restrictive religious rules, looking over your shoulder at yourself to make sure that you're doing exactly what you should.

Where's this "should"? Where's the "exactly"?

Life can't be tied down. It's bigger than we are. Commandments don't really limit life, just the rigid person committed to following them.

i want to chat or mail babaji plz help me

plz i want to send mail babaji i want to know babaji e mail id i want too chat babaji

Hello there.

Interesting site I must say. I am happy that I found someone who was with "RSSB" so I can ask questions.

I have been a vegetarian for some years and I go to satsangs sometimes in my country. Being a vegetarian though doesnt necessarily have to do with RSSB but the fact that my carnal nature is designed to harm for my survival while this is not what I want to do as an entity that wants to be independent from matter.

I am not initiated though and I have my doubts about it. But sometimes I wonder if my doubts exist because the disciples are following blindly and turn the whole thing into a "cult" or "organized religion" regardless of whether the master is real or not.

My question is what if the guru is real but the disciples or those behind the RSSB are ruining it just like every other religion?

I want to be "awakened" and if there is a real Guru I want to find him.

Yet my wish to find a real guru may end me up following something fake while believing its real instead. That can also be true even if a guru is real but end up becoming a member of a corrupted organization that backs him up.

Under the possibility that the guru could be real but the followers themselves the problem and those you have experienced and have led you to abandon RSSB, what would you have thought to reconsider for yourself or advice me who wonders about this possibility?

Assuming that you would check it one more time just to make sure for your decision how would you investigate it once more?


You asked,

"I want to be "awakened" and if there is a real Guru I want to find him."

---Could you explain what "awakening" means? Is there something special about being, "Awakened?" Have you recieve some spiritual training in the special value of being Awakened? I'm not finding fault with your question. I'm just curious as to the origin of your awakening desire.
Thanks for a reply,

I dont have a clear definition of it because I havent experienced it. My search for this "awakening" comes from my experience with this life we are all experiencing.

Everything we experience is subject of our brain functions, chemical substances in our body, our five senses that receive external information, the external information itself and the way our brain calculates that information.

I notice that based on our experiences and our "design" we form a subjective interpretation of reality. Everything we define is subjective. Even when we feel sure that we have found the real path is an illusion that we may define as an absolute objective reality.This is why disciples of a certain philosophy may derail from the original meanings and end up living in an illusion than the truth that was supposed to be shown to them by that philosophy. They can not realize it and they never will. You and I may be living in one too. Choosing a path to the truth may lead us to an illusion that we are in that path.

Beliefs, knowledge, realization, interpretations....they vary from eye to eye, from thought to thought.

There are countless of "realities" formed but none is objectively real and we are still living in lethargy because we behave in accordance to our biological design and our mind's addiction to the external environment. Our mind is so addicted to this environment that it manifests other fake realities within other fake realities. For example you see a tin that writes Orangina or 7up or Pepsi, and they depict images and letters that communicated a fake message to our conscious and subconscious. A new kind of fake "reality" is manifested through human creativity.

There should be one objective reality, one understanding for all, one which transcends our consciousness from these "realities"

It is hard for me to put it better and I doubt I passed the message correctly. (But even so my message may be interpreted differently from person to person because our mind creates different interpretations from person to person).


Well you have most certainly surely come to the right place with these questions about RS that you have asked.

Most of these issues you raise have been discussed and deliberated upon here, and to quite some extent.

So hang around for awhile and I am sure several other folks who are also quite well versed and experienced in RS, and who have also moved on, will be responding to your queries as well.

Brian is this blog's founder and author, and I am sure he too will have some sage advice for you as well.

I myself have some specific suggestions for you, but I will not post them right now. I don't have time tonight. Also, some of your questions need to be disentangled from... lets say some umm 'presumptions' that you have. So as for my insights and advice, I will post that here shortly. Until then, I'm sure other contributors will be sharing theirs.

Hi tAo

What "presumptions" of mine are you referring to?

Alexander, a few thoughts...

This morning I started reading a book by someone who was a true believing Christian fundamentalist, and became an atheist.

Thumbing through a chapter that looked interesting, I saw that he advises an "outsider" approach to analyzing whether a religion (or spiritual path) is right for you.

Meaning, be as detached, questioning, and skeptical as someone would be who has no investment at all in the religion/path in question.

His point, which makes sense, is that right from the beginning (as in your case, from what you've said, as for me also, surely) we generally start with presumptions. We want to believe that X is true, so we focus on what supports our hoped-for belief and ignore contradictory evidence.

So that's one thought...to take a step back and consider your attraction to RSSB/Sant Mat from a more detached perspective. After all, Charan Singh said "critics are our best friends." Be your own best friend, by criticizing unexamined assumptions.

On a different slant, many years ago I read on a message board that RSSB initiates view themselves as technicolor people in a black and white world.

Meaning, as is the case with most religions (Buddhism and Taoism being possible exceptions), there is a marked tendency toward feeling special, unique, singled out for special favor by God and the guru.

You might ponder whether this is what you want. It's fine if it is. Feeling special is a good feeling.

I've just come to consider that I'd rather pursue a spiritual/philosophical "path" (or non-path) that has a goal of brightening or enlightening everyone and everything. Of casting more light on reality from everyone's perspective.

For me, science is one way humans can do this. Being humble and uncertain (in the sense of always questioning)is another way. I've come to be wary of religions or spiritual paths that preach exclusivity. This has always turned me off, but somehow I found myself a member of a group that preached just that (probably because I really liked feeling special, as above).

A few things to think about. Hope this helps.


While I could discuss some of your presumptions I would simply like to say what I say to any prospective follower of a Radha Soami guru:

--How do you know the guru is who he says he is and can do what he says he can do? Do you want to devote your life to this presumption without proof? Just know you're making a leap of faith as in any religion. If it gives you comfort, fine. But, what if the guru isn't who he says he is and can't do what he says he can do?

Your decision.


You are asking some of the right questions.
You said:
"But sometimes I wonder if my doubts exist because the disciples are following blindly and turn the whole thing into a "cult" or "organized religion" regardless of whether the master is real or not.

My question is what if the guru is real but the disciples or those behind the RSSB are ruining it just like every other religion?"

I'm neither a regular reader or poster on Brian's blog, but I'd like to pass on a couple of thoughts. Firstly, RSSB is the name of the organisation or administration by volunteers. It is not the actual philosophy. It is important to separate the two when making an evaluation. Focus on the philosophy itself before having a long look at the organisation.

As you have discerned, Sant Mat can be lived as a religion instead of the practical application that it purports itself to be. I have been around the philosophy and the organisation in numerous countries for close on 40 years now. Unfortunately, the majority of people are fundamentalist in their approach. They find it convenient to follow rather than do. Hence they get nowhere and remain limited in their experience and limited in their thinking. The consequent group behaviour is often apalling.

Some of the people who leave Sant Mat are actually leaving RSSB. Others leave both. So have a good look at the philosophy before RSSB. You are fortunate to have spotted the consequence of 'blind followers' this early in the piece.

By the way, without the appropriate inner experience, there is no way to determine whether or not the guru is a guru. The best starting point is to consider him like the rest of us, and simply evaluate what he has to say. We all measure our own risks in our own way.

Good luck with your investigation.

I agree with everything you all said and I share very similar views.

Regarding me "presumption" though, I think there was a small misunderstanding.

I have my doubts whether the guru of RSSB is real or not. I wasnt aiming to question your choices with rhetoric questions. I only wondered "what if he is real" without forming any opinion about it, because I simply dont know. I wondered about the possibility.

I base this on my observations and the fact that its easy to fall for something that isnt real without even knowing it.

For example I was reading a book about meditation around 5 years ago and the author of the book was saying lots of good things about Sai Baba. I didnt know who that was. But the feats mentioned in the book caught my eye back then. His quotations also sounded as if they came from a holy man.

A year later I searched a bit, and found pictures of him doing some of his miracles. He was a showman. A "magician" that did tricks in the same manner showmen do to entertain. I also learned that he molests his followers.

And there are countless of such charlatans.

Of course I am sometimes wondering about the "what if". Just as I may fall for a charlatan I may depart from the right path as well because my mind works both ways. Whatever I choose I do not know if its the correct choice.

Taking all these into consideration, following a certain path to find truth involves a risk. I need to practice that path for some time to find if its true. For example I see that Brian was with RSSB it for 30 years if I recall correctly? If I understood correctly he hasnt experienced anything all these years that proved to him he is real. If its not the right path I ll just wast my time just like I might have wasted my time if I followed the teaching's and advices of a fake guru without necessarily being a fundamentalist. Also there is no timetable that tells you "hey if you practice that philosophy for X time you will reach your goal/you will know if its the right path". Its an an unknown and varies from person to person. If the guru is indeed a fake I wasted my time. If he is real I may or may not find the truth. This fact creates a great uncertainty.

My choices regarding the path are subject of uncertainty too because right now every single choice I make is made from a low spiritual level. And I consider myself very weak.

The only thing I might accomplish at the end will be nothing. I ll just die trying.

Sometimes I wonder if there is an "easy" way, not to reach the goal, but to know for sure if that path is real. For example if the guru of the RSSB is indeed an actual guru. Some sign or something. At least if I know that I might know that I am leaning towards the right direction, while trying to ignore the spiritual obstacles created by the fundamentalists of that guru.

Its not the satsang or RSSB or the organization that attracts me but the possibility that the guru is real thus the path the right one if practiced correctly.

What I experience at this stage though are the superficial signs of the organization. Which wouldnt differ from a fake organization.

Brian you have said something about people feeling special. I have partly experienced this at RSSB as well. One of my friends who are "initiated" gives me that impression a lot. And I pointed to that friend many times that WE should always be questioning ourselves.

I also was a little bit worried about the motivation. "I am doing it for myself to find true happiness". That motivation sounds similar to the motivation everyone has in life. Not of someone who tries to find truth. Just replace earthly goods like money, sex, love, power etc with the expected "goods" and "promises" of spiritual power. If we are doing it to find personal "happiness" because "we are special and know better than the others" then we are only trying to feed our ego and make it happy.

Just to clear things up again.

I dont have any pressumptions about the guru at this moment.The past few months I ve been trying to find concrete evidence whether he is real or not, if the organization has other purposes behind it etc.

I d also like to know how the economy works at Dera, how it finances itself and how do they trade with the outside world. I doubt they sustain their selves 100% on their own

Follow your instinct man, just follow your instinct. and if you decide to meditate, then meditate wholeheartedly,,,not counting backwards from 2.5hours, not thinking if this is the right/wrong way. Just do it and stop taking advice from writtings from ppl in blogs, who you cannot see or listen. The brians, the tuscons, the anders,or taos are just writtings on the screen.Notice how quick everyone was ready to advice you, to tell you what to do..all experts in failure.Go do your own thing,write your own history and find out by yourself the answers to these questions. With advice upon advice upon advice there are more gurus than disciples.

A master told his disciples that there are four things he cannot do for them:
Eat for them, Breath for them, Go with their wives for them, and meditate for them.


---Could you explain what "awakening" means? Is there something special about being, "Awakened?" Have you recieved some spiritual training in the special value of being Awakened? I'm not finding fault with your question. I'm just curious as to the origin of your awakening desire.
Thanks for a reply,


The following is what I have found to be true, but it is just an intuition condensed into concepts and, as such, it ultimately is untrue because reality or absolute is not conceptual, conceivable or describable.

I was involved with RSSB for over two decades starting in the late 60's-early 70's. I have since found that following a spiritual path has no particular relevance to 'understanding' which can occur at any time under any circumstance. The obstacle to 'understanding' or 'awakening' is a thin veil, a trick of perception that is a result of our habits and conditioning.

A spiritual path is based on the premise of an individual that needs to go through a variety of disciplines and correct behaviors in order to purify and get rid of the 'I' or ego, and then achieve reunion with God. To follow a path or discipline tends to reinforce the sense of 'self' because there is this goal of liberation or salvation to be achieved BY it. The irony is there is no self to achieve anything.

The fundamental point that is missed is that the seeker, at every stage of this quest, is already what he/she is seeking. There is no way to make the seeker any more what they already are. It is a matter of looking in the right direction, which is no direction at all, to see this: to see what you think you are is just a phantom, a dreamed character in a play you are playing a role in. There is no individual. No separate soul. No ego to overcome.

There are no particular qualifications for perceiving this because Consciousness is perfectly present in all circumstances and has no need for special diets, disciplines or gurus.

Consciousness is always present HERE whether one is loading the dishwasher or experiencing a grand vison of the creation in some exotic inner region.

When this is understood, the game of the spiritual quest appears silly, like a dog chasing it's tail. There is nothing wrong with playing the game. If it is your role in the play to be a disciple of a guru, carry on and have fun but none of it leads to what you already are, which you are whether you know it or not. You can search the cosmos for your glasses for a thousand eons and then be shocked to discover they were on your nose the whole time.

What you already are is the unborn and thus undying Presence that is prior to all phenomena and thought. It can't be conceived or circumscribed in any way because in doing so it would be making an object out of itself and the illusion of individuality and duality begins.

As long as subject is centered in a phenomenal object and thinks and speaks from this, subject is identified with that object and is bound.

All questions are answered when it is understood there is no 'self'. Abandonment of this self or phenomenal center constitutes the only 'practice', and such abandonment is not an act of will or voliton performed by the identified subject, but a non-action which leaves non-objective Source in control of phenomenal activity and free from fictitious interference from an imaginary self.

You could don a loincloth and sit in a cave waiting for this to happen, or it may come over you while going though the check-out line in the supermarket. The advantage of hearing what I am saying is that because this is no big deal, most people don't recognise it between their thoughts as they go about their activities. It is so ordinary it is overlooked. Be alert and you will discover you are free.

Because I have attempted to explain something non-relative with the relative terminology of language, everything I have said can be interpreted as contradictory or just raises more questions. Just remember the asker is the answer.


I agree with you about "if you decide to meditate, then meditate"

But I do NOT agree with you on "stop taking advice from writtings from ppl in blogs, who you cannot see or listen. The brians, the tuscons, the anders,or taos are just writtings on the screen."

You said: "Notice how quick everyone was ready to advice you, to tell you what to do..all experts in failure."

-- First of all little mr. smart-ASS, Alexander himself was the one who ASKED for the advice. And no one here was very "quick" to respond or to "tell what to do". As for your comment that others here are "experts in failure", you are obviously a rather stupid fool and you definitely don't know shit about other people here.

You also said: "With advice upon advice upon advice there are more gurus than disciples."

-- You really are a dumb-ass disciple, although you like to think you are a wise-ass... which in fact makes you even dumber... and thus hardly anyone to say or determine who is or isn't a "guru".

"Guru" actually means one who brings LIGHT to the darkness.... One who dispells the darkness of ignorance with the light of knowledge. So actually anyone who removes or dispells the illusions of dogma and beliefs is a guru. A guru is anyone who brings light and thus removes ignorance.

And btw, you forgot the fifth thing: A so-called "master" is not able to THINK for you... but then if you follow the "master" myth as you seem to do, then thinking for yourself is something that you don't seem to do very much of either.

You foolishly say: "just follow your instinct"

But I say: Don't "follow" anything (or anyone) - just be sober, pragmatic, and use REASON.

How upset can someone get when their ignorance is exposed by themselves.

I insist,,, follow instinct.
know reason and logic, but follow your instict.

from the Tao Teh Ching

Know the masculine, cleave to the feminine
Be the valley for everyone.
Being the valley for everyone
You are always in virtue without lapse
And you return to infancy.

Know the White, cleave to the Black.
Be a model for everyone.
Know Glory but cleave to Humiliation
Be the valley for everyone.
When your constancy in virtue is complete
You return to the state of the “uncarved block.

ps. Tuscon, i enjoyed your post.
Tao, yours too.

Dear Alexander et all,
Interesting thread.

I second Pooh Bears advice about separating RSSB from the philosophy. Specifically, the aspects of sant mat meditation which are fundamental in my mind are:

1) having an understanding of the "eye center" and knowing that the first goal of sant mat is to withdraw the consciousness to this center.
2) That at this center, one will come into contact with a perceptible sound that will catch the attention.
3) That this experience is about GRADUAL detachment from form and the senses, and slowly developing a taste for the sound (master) so that at the time of death, one's interest is in following the sound.

I am sure you know this already if you are interested in sant mat, but these aspects of the practice differentiate it from zen, tibetan buddhist meditation, fllowing the breath, etc. I am not claiming it is a superior practice, but it is a unique practice.

Think of the guru for now as a person who is practiced at the art of withdrawing his consciousness and merging his attention with the sound--one who has accomplished what the new practitioner also wants to accomplish. All the other aspects--sach kand, the radiant form, etc., are all lovely concepts, but only concepts.

Also keep in mind that in RSSB there is no spiritual hierarchy, though the organization appears to be hierarchical. It is a direct relationship between the practitioner to the teachings and to the master. And I would add that despite the many complaints on this blog that the current master makes himself largely unavailable, I would put forth just the opposite--he has already been to the states many more times than previous gurus.

Good luck with your decision Alexander.

I guess I should add that I live in the states, so my perception of the present RSSB master's availability is based on his presence in the states. I can't speak for other countries.


Enjoyed, reading your above comment. The first paragraph was a gem. Your discussion was very readable and practical.
Not bad for a surfer dude.
Best wishes,


Unfortunately that selection you gave from Lao Tzu does not refer to "instinct". It refers to abiding in the natural state... abiding in spontaneity and balance.

Reason brings great clarity and leads to insight.

The way of mere blind feeling and instinct leads into obscurity and torpor.

The TAO is not simply mere instinct alone. The Way is revealed by reason and clarity.

Fortunately you correct me

Adam, I don't think it's accurate to say that the form of meditation practice you described differentiates RSSB/Sant Mat from all other faiths.

Sant Mat likes to claim that the "sound current" is at the foundation of every deep mystical practice. This is an exaggeration, but I have quite a collection of books that describe meditation practices involving hearing a subtle spiritual sound.

For example, Taoism, the mystical side of it, speaks of an audible energy that permeates all of the cosmos. However, Taoism obviously doesn't believe in the need for a "perfect master" to connect the meditator with this power, because the Tao is considered to be omnipresent -- the root of all things.

So meditation on an inner sound isn't unique to Sant Mat.

How does taoism recommend one be able to hear this audible energy?

I thank everyone for their inside.

Regarding other philosophies compared to what is taught from Sant Mat, I fail to see much difference from the things I have read. They all look highly similar and as if they are describing the same thing with different words.

The goal is also supposed to be the same AFAIK and all have the supporting "evidence" (although questionable) to back them up as reaching that goal.

Arent they supposed to lead to enlightenment and truth? There arent many truths.

I also believe that the principle of a "mandatory master" is probably misunderstood. I think a real master is needed for guidance. But it shouldnt necessarily mean that a person doesnt have the ability to find enlightenment without a master.

One last question. According to Sant Mant we shouldnt eat meat, fish or eggs in order to avoid bad karma. What I find strange though is that any consumption of egg is not allowed. I wonder why this is the case.

A chicken gives birth to eggs even when they arent fertile (no sperm). This egg does not contain life and will not produce life. Its just like a woman's period. The body gets rid of the old ovums to replace them with newer ones. The consumption of that egg is still considered to be bad karma, a thing that I find odd

Alexander wrote: "Regarding other philosophies...They all look highly similar and as if they are describing the same thing with different words."

-- Approaches to Reality vary considerably. Various types of Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Taoism, to name a few, are quite different from Sant Mat dogma and its cosmology. If you are unfamiliar with these, I suggest a thorough study before committing your life to Sant Mat.

Regarding the issue with Sant Mat and eggs. It is based on the theory that if one is willing to eat an unfertilized egg, one may eventually consume a fertilized egg either intentionally or by accident and incur adverse karma. Also, eggs are considered "rajasic" or stimulating food by Sant Mat (and other Indian religions and ayurvedic medicine) which they believe activates the mind unncessarily and also activates "lower" centers and "base" desires, thus disturbing meditation and spiritual "progress".

Most satsangis go to great lengths to avoid even a fraction of an egg in, say, cookies where one egg may be used to produce a batch of one dozen. In which case the offending satsangi would be consuming 1/12 of an egg that most likely is unfertilized. Mayonnaise which contains only a small amount of egg per serving, even less than a cookie, is avoided at all costs.

Satsangis study food labels carefully for evidence of eggs and servers in restaurants are questioned and often sent to the kitchen to inquire about the ingredients of certain food items to make sure eggs are not included.

I consider all this absurd and obsessive. You decide how you feel about it.


Could you write a comment on the dairy products restrictions? I have no info.

radhasoami actually this words has it's own strength and weight that we should understand what does it mean.i want to be a member of radhasoami this words actually hurts me..i like this thing.Those people who don't have any knowledge about these must know what is the principal behind radhasoami.

To all,

On this pro-vegetarian site, some might like to also inform themselves on a kindred topic as per karmic implications/morality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism.

You decide how you feel about it.

Robert Paul Howard

Hi Roger,

There is no restriction in Sant mat regarding eating dairy products except for cheese made with rennet, an enzyme derived from the stomach lining of cattle and perhaps other ruminants. This enzyme causes the milk to coagulate into curd if I understand correctly not being a resident of Wisconsin or a descendant of a long line of cheese makers.

There are enzymes of vegetable origin which work about as well as animal rennet. Cheese made from "vegetable" rennet is allowed for satsangis to eat without restriction.

The previous master Charan Singh, when asked about rennet, would say that we have to live in this world and not to obsess about what kind of rennet was in cheese. However, the current master, Gurinder Singh, has forbidden eating cheese made with rennet and lists of cheese brands made without animal rennet are made available to satsangis.

I leave it up to the reader to come to their own conclusions about this. My thinking is in line with Charan Singh on this matter.

What is interesting is that most current satsangis initiated by Charan Singh, who formerly ate cheese made with animal rennet, now avoid this type of cheese as per Gurinder's edicts.

One "perfect" master says it's OK to eat animal rennet while another "perfect" master says it is not. Ah, the masters work in mysterious ways unfathomable to ordinary folks such as myself.


Do please tell us, what is "the principlke behind radhasoami"??? Please inform us what that is.

If you really "understand what does it mean", as you imply that you do, then you will no doubt be able to enlighten us. I await your explanation.

You are most welcome to share your great understandiong, knowledge and wisdom about Radhasoami with the rest of us humble souls.

And since you "want to be a member of radhasoami", then your insight will be most welcome.

However, I do have to wonder and ask you... why is it that you say that "this words actually hurts me"?

If you are as knowledgable and wise about Radhasoami as you imply that you are, then why should mere words and truths "hurts" you? Please explain to us why mere words can hurt you.

And also please explain who are the "Those people" that you refer to? And also, why do you think that they "don't have any knowledge about" Radhasoami?

Thank you.

To all,

I regret that my reference supplied above fails to function - even though I copied it from the location where the article is presented. By placing the terms "cannibalism wikipedia" in Google, the article is the first to be listed, i.e.: "Cannibalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cannibalism (from Spanish caníbal, in connection with cannibalism among the Antillean Caribs) [1], also called anthropophagy (from Greek: ἄνθρωπος, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism - 139k - Cached - Similar pages."

I regret the insufficiency of the reference I supplied before. I hope this will serve to correct it.

Robert Paul Howard


I have 2 books written by Sifu Wong Kiewt. One is about Chi Kung and the second about Shaolin. The books give emphasis on the spiritual aspect of these arts and talks about Zen and Taoism since its their ultimate aim.

The other book I have read is called Superconsiousness A Guide to Meditation by J.Donald Walters (relies on the teachings of Paramahansa Yogananda). I have also read another one which I lost and I cant remember who wrote it. It was similar in principle to that of Walters'.

I did not notice an incredible difference. Perhaps I failed to make connections and spot integral differences since its been some years since I have read about these philosophies.

Is there something I should be aware of about Sant mat's teachings I may not be familiar with that makes it very different from these philosophies? If its possible can you inform me?


Philosophies like Sant Mat, many religions, and other yoga paths are dualistic. That is, the deity is seen as an object separate from the individual that must be approached or attained usually via a prescribed set of disciplines, rituals, devotion, prayer and practices. The deity is objectivized as 'other' than what the apparent individual seems to be. It is something to be realized or attained in the future.

In Taoism, Zen, Advaita Vedanta, for example, there is no such objective diety to be attained since it is intrinsic in one's immediate and present nature. How can one embark upon a path to what one already is? Such philosophies focus on what is present rather than some future goal, heaven or superconscious state. There may be prescribed practices but they are geared to being fully conscious in the present moment. The reality is seen as this non-objectivised Presence which cannot be known except as its functioning and phenomenal appearance.

A good introduction and overview of Non-Duality is a book called "One" edited by Jerry Katz.

Another book I like for beginners and experienced alike is "The Upside Down Circle", Zen laughter by Zen Master Gilbert. Very simple and one of my favorites.

I am unfamiliar with Sifu Wong Kiewt, but I spent some years studying the martial arts Hsing I, and Lo Kap Bak Fat. Oriental martial arts such as these as well as Tai Chi and other "Kung Fu" styles have their philosophical roots in non-dualist Taoism and/or Buddhism.

I have not read the book by J. Donald Walters but I did read many years ago Yogananda's classic "Autobiography of a Yogi" which was charming but, in my opinion, dualistic in its approach.

It is obvious my orientation is non-dualist, but I am not saying that "Awakening" is not possible via dualistic methods such as bhakti marg (devotion to deity).

It depends on the individuals predilection.

I find non-dulaity to be more expedient, but to the devotionally inclined it may seem too "dry".

I am really surprised to come across this blog. I have been a part of RSSB but always have been a real sceptic at heart. The functioning of the RSSB is so autocratic that dissent is curbed and sychophancy is nurtured. It has once been a journey of self discovery however it is now collapsing under its own weight and growth. I never knew spirituality can be such a good business that u can create a transnational enterprise. I came to this path due to some experiences in childhood. I continue to have these experiences inspite of not being in this path. I believe that truth/God is not the sole prerogative of RSSB.

you wrongly write:
"Philosophies like Sant Mat...are dualistic."

Sant Mat states that the reality is that God is oneness...and that duality is the illusion. The master and disciple play their parts in the play of illusion for the disciple to merge into oneness. Right?

Adam writes:

"Sant Mat states that the reality is that God is oneness...and that duality is the illusion."

-- No Adam, you are quite mistaken. You have attempted to portray Santmat/RS in thios way before, but you are simply wrong. Just because the RS literature makes an infrequent or occasional mention that "God is oneness" (as you say), does NOT at all make the RS path & teaching & approach one of non-duality.

The RS path is fundamentally dualist oriented. And the dualism of RS is pervasive throughout the teaching, the meditation practice, and the orientation towards the guru. Everything about the RS path is dualistic oriented. Just a few little words saying that "God is oneness" does not make RS a non-dual path. I think that you do not see this because: (1) You do not truly understand non-duality or the orientation/teaching of non-duality, and (2) You are apparently already rather heavily invested into the RS belief system and so you are nable see it from an objective point of view, or a non-dual point of view.

"The master and disciple play their parts in the play of illusion for the disciple to merge into oneness. Right?

-- Wrong. Thats only how RS tries to portray it. In non-duality, there is no such "merge(ing) into oneness". Merging into oneness is a dualistic concept. And there is also no "master and disciple play their parts in the play of illusion". There is only the real, the reality, or that which is always already the case. It is basic duality to think that "master and disciple play their parts in the play of illusion". The only illusion there is, is the illusion (your illusion) that there exists a "master and disciple", or that playing "parts in the play of illusion" somehow represents non-duality or that RS is a teaching of non-duality.

I suggest and encourage you to go take some time to really study and really grasp the essence and understanding and orientation of non-duality. (and several of Tucson's past comments are an excellent starting point)

Because, at the present time, it is quite clear that you do NOT (understand and grasp), as is clearly evidenced by your repeated attempts to portray Santmat and the RS cult as somehow being non-dual.

Until you do that and gain some real insight into non-duality, you will remain like all the other philosophically immature and narrow-minded RS satsangis who try to portray Santmat & RS as something that it is not.


Regardless of the description of Reality/Diety as oneness, formless, etc. in Sant Mat, the approach is dualistic. Diety is objectified as something to attain and there is a prescribed method to get "there" via diet, meditation, initiation, vows, perfect master, sound current, and more.

Diety, in Sant Mat, is somewhere other than where/what the disciple presently is. The disciple must vacate the body and GO TO higher regions in some other dimension of consciousness. God is not 'here', it is 'there' in Sant Mat.

In non-duality no action is possible to effect realization, because that which is 'real' in us is so already, always was and always will be. We can no more "become" real than we can become ourselves. We have no action to take to be what we are!

Do we have to realize we have a nose? We aren't the least concerned about whether we have a nose or not, but we are concerned about achieving Reality which is even more obvious than our nose because it underlies every thought and action we attribute to ourselves.

True, our noses may be objects of consciousness, while our Reality never could be, and so we cannot know our Reality objectively, as we can objectively know our noses, but our Reality is nevertheless a certainty. It is the ultimate certainty, a certainty ever present that can never be objectivized in any circumstances but AS which, nevertheless, we can be conscious in each and every moment.

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