More criticism of Radha Soami Satsang Beas

A few days ago I got an email from a long-time member of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), the spiritual group that I’ve been affiliated with since 1971. This person was stimulated to write after reading a comment posted to my “Why I embrace unorganized religion” post.

You’ll see that my correspondent begins by quoting an excerpt from that comment and then heads off from there. Now, I don’t want this Church of the Churchless blog to become overly focused on criticism of a single small religious organization.

But the reality is that my current preference for churchlessness is an evolution from my previous attachment to a church—the “Church” of RSSB. So my personal experience with organized religion stems from this source, as does the experience of my correspondent and quite a few others who visit the Church of the Churchless.

If I had remained a Catholic, I’d be focusing on the rigidity, narrow-mindedness, and self-righteousness of Catholicism right now, because this would be the religion that I knew best. Instead, I’m making the same criticisms of RSSB, because that is the religion I’m most familiar with.

My point is that what’s written below speaks of the failings of RSSB and its members. Yet these failings are present in all organized religions, as is pointed out by the author.

With my correspondent’s permission I edited the original message, taking out some overly personal content and making a few grammatical changes. So much evident thoughtful passion went into the writing of the message, I felt that it deserved a wider audience than just me.

Here it is:
-------------------------------------------
Netemara said: The dealings you have with the higher ups in RSSB are because you had dealings with them of a dishonest or whatever type in past life and you are here reaping it and are not being grateful. Shame on you Brian. It's all there for you to see when you are ready to see it. It is as plain as the nose on your face.

Shame on you? Good grief.

It always bothered me that satsangis [RSSB initiates] often tended to sum up morality as basically:
--don’t have sex with anybody but your spouse
--karma is simply “whatever is done to you, you did to others”
--ahimsa is just about being a vegetarian and not killing spiders

There’s no interest in studying what ahimsa truly is, or any of the other yamas or niyamas. But then satsangis don’t need to study the subtle aspects of eastern (or western) philosophy, ethics, and morality because we are above all that. Just do your meditation and all the virtues will appear.

If you are a vegetarian, you won’t incur bad karma; bad things won’t happen to you. Never mind that you destroy people mentally, emotionally, physically, or financially. Never mind that you are deeply disturbed, because if you’re a vegetarian and won’t even kill a bug, you’re swell!. The rest is just karmic adjustment ‘til you’re outtahere.

I wish I could invent a Crapometer. Or how about a Dogmameter? You know, something that goes ding, ding, ding, flashes bright lights, and has a dial that indicates how much crap or dogma is being dispensed. However, sigh, I suppose it would probably ding incessantly for everyone and we would all have to remain in silence forever.

Jungian psychology points out that institutions (religious, government, medical, you name it) eventually become obstacles to the very purposes for which they were created. They take on a life of their own and survival becomes the first priority. Anyone who questions the institution is a threat, and those who depend on the institution for their livelihood, power, or self-image are likewise threatened and take appropriate action.

In the end, perhaps the institution becomes the crucible (or part of it) in which self-realization is forged as one encounters the limitations and flaws of the institution and those in it, including oneself. The more adherents behave in deluded and unenlightened ways, the more opportunities one has for self-inquiry, self-awareness, enlightenment, developing humility, and all that.

Originally, I would not have said that Sant Mat, the institution, is a cult. But of course it is—having characteristics of both the benign and malignant type of cult. That’s what most institutions become. This is what ordinary folks do with their beliefs, create cults.

Even “Treasure Beyond Measure” describes Charan Singh’s challenges with those who thought they were running the Dera. I would nominate Charan Singh for sainthood just for being able to graciously deal with thousands of deluded satsangis behaving as they do. On the audio tapes, he certainly seemed to be trying to end the superstitions, dogmatic interpretations, rumors, and abuses of the teachings.

Over the years I have observed that there are a number of aware, insightful, broadminded, and/or independent satsangis who never attend satsang meetings at all. There are some that I have known or know of who come out of the woodwork only for bhandaras and Baba Ji’s visits or to go to the Dera – and have not attended satsang for years, even decades.

And, the deluded whisper that the reason these folks don’t attend satsang is they are “not right with the path.” Unless, of course, they have connections with the in-crowd. Then, hey, everything’s cool. Otherwise, the current dogma stands: “good devoted satsangis” attend satsang and serve and never question the Master’s organization.

Rather than becoming self-realized and God-realized, I believe I have observed what is probably called regression in some long-time satsangis. I also think aspects of the teachings support people with that tendency and/or those who haven’t adapted to life very well. They find reasons in Sant Mat to justify their negative attitudes toward others and the world, avoidance of responsibilities, antisocial behaviors, and so on. Of course this might apply to any religion. That may not be what the masters intended, but it is definitely how some folks interpret parts of the teachings.

Netemara said that spiritual growth is a myth. Well, now, isn’t that convenient? We are not going to become self-realized or God-realized. We just want to get outtahere and escape from physical existence. I am weary of satsangis saying that they don’t want to have to come back for another lifetime. It seems that they just want to leave this plane of reality because they don’t like what is manifesting in their lives and have hostility toward people and the world in general.

Now we can have a bumper sticker to rival the Christians: “We are not perfect, just saved.” I guess our exit will be a little less messy than the Christian rapture, though. One at a time instead of en masse.

How can you make spiritual progress without the foundation of ethics, morality, self-inquiry, and looking on all other beings with love and compassion? Is that not the foundation upon which meditation is based? Isn’t that Sant Mat 101? Both Master Charan Singh and Master Gurinder Singh said that what you see is what you get; if you haven’t attained any self- or God-realization, death won’t magically transform you.

Someone commented on your blog that satsangis don’t shun or ostracize others. Well, I’m sorry to be the one to break the news, but, yes, they do. Of course some people are made to feel shunned or ostracized in Sant Mat. I have experienced it; I am aware of it being done to others for different reasons.

In Netemara’s world, it appears this would be tit-for-tat. Na na na na na na. However, the way I see it, the shunning and judgment more likely is going on because someone violates the party line, group or individual delusions, control issues, personal issues, and/or shadows that others are uncomfortable with, or are trying to suppress or avoid. Folks are feeling a tad threatened. Shouldn’t we want to look at this and have clear insight into human behavior? Well, no, I’m told. Such questions shouldn’t be asked.

If I should attempt to discuss the insights of other paths, religions, philosophies, Jungian or Buddhist psychology, you name it, I am treated like a heretic and dismissed as if the true believers are already beyond all this. If I mention the wonderful loving people I have known who were of other faiths and their insights, and say that we shouldn’t condemn others, I am treated like a heretic.

Perhaps some satsangis are protecting their yet-fragile faith. Some ex-satsangis now appear to need to invalidate the path (through fact or fabrication, whatever it takes) so they don’t have to feel guilty about distancing themselves from it. But aren’t they doing this because they believed that Sant Mat is the only valid path to God? Just like the Catholic Church?

The alternative is being excommunicated from the church and barred from heaven (and doomed to hell) for eternity—or doomed to transmigrate under the domain of Kal for eternity. Or as one poor soul said: “The master will drag you and you can never get away from him, he sees everything you do.” Hmmm, which is worse? (And, even more importantly, what does all of this say about Santa Claus?) We are the victims of our own narrow thinking, and then have to dig our way out of the hell we have created for ourselves.

This brings me back to your question. Where is the awareness, insight, wisdom and radiant love after all these years of spiritual practice? My recent readings in Buddhist and Jungian psychology, other paths and religions, and Taoism have helped me progress more in recent years than twenty-five years of attending satsang. Well, I must give credit where it is due. All those years were part of the journey. They set the stage and created the fertile ground for my current studies and introspection.

As a satsangi, I found your book “Return to the One” a breath of fresh air because it didn’t insert advertisements for the “perfect living master” and sant mat dogma throughout. I am relieved to hear that Master Gurinder Singh encouraged you in that direction.

Here is my current mantra: “Religion is for those who are afraid of going to hell; spirituality is for those who have already been there.”

Comments

[tao]

To gurucharn singji:

To you I say: Take your insipid "RADA SOAMI JI", and shove it right back up your ass where it came from.

Is that clear enough for your spiritually and intellectually compromised pea-brain to comprehend?

[kam]

just remember people have always spoken ill about all the saints....this is very sad and shameful that poeple like us didnt recogonised true masters when they were among us.
if you say to a frog who lives in a well that the ocean is soo vast and huge ,he will laugh at you bcoz to him the well is no less than the ocean.similarly people have limited capacity to understand the true serect of naam
radha soami greeting to all

[sapient]

Kam Ji,
How do you know that you are not the frog in the well? May be you are stuck with your dogmas and beliefs and can't see the ocean of a non dogmatic life outside the well.

[Chris]

A scientific and religious "Church of the Churchless" online survey:

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Thank you for your participation.

[tao]

Kam,

The funny thing is this: You are the one who is the frog down in the well.

It is obvious to others of us who are not stuck down in the well of Radha Soami dogma, that people like you cannot see beyond the confines of the artificial beliefs that you have acquired, and that you subscribe to.

You said: "...people have always spoken ill about all the saints..."

What saints? Who says someone was a "saint"? And how would you know? Are you an expert on "saints"? I don't think so. You sound like a brain-washed parrot to me.

You also said: "...this is very sad and shameful that poeple like us didnt recogonised true masters..."

"People like us", you say? Hold on there. You don't speak for others. And you don't speak for me. And you don't know what anyone may or may not "recognize". Sounds like you are just full of blind, unexamined assumptions. And then there's that "true masters" thing popping up again. "Masters" you say? ... I say that your talk of "masters" is bullshit. It's just your way of implying that people who don't buy into your stupid Radha Soami dogma, are somehow inferior... or "sad and shameful" as you put it.

It's people like you who are the "sad" ones, and that... is a real shame. In other words, you really suck.

So now be a good little slave and go run run back and suck on your "master" some more. I am sure he'll be happy to accomodate you.... especially if you've got the bucks... or the rupees.

[tao]

Brian,

It has sometimes occured to me that I guess perhaps I shouldn't use that old "bullshit" word. I suppose that it probably offends some of the more sensitive folks who visit here. It's just that I tend to write my comments as if I was actually talking to someone live and in person. And I generally don't like to tippy-toe around either. I guess you know that by now. In any case, do feel free to edit or delete any of my comments that are not quite PC enough.

Now on to the main thing I wanted to mention:

I have noticed many times how this particular article of yours, namely the "More criticism of Radha Soami Satsang Beas", has gotten such a very long trail of comments. You seem to have got more mileage out of it than any other essay you've written. It seems to be the one post that keeps on endlessly producing comments. That's rather funny. I always chuckle every time I see another "More criticism of Radha Soami Satsang Beas" comment pop up on the Recent Comments list. Funny how they just keep on trickling in every now and then.

[George]

I am shocked at most of the comments on this forum.

Any teachings that teach kindness, forgiveness, support , love, sharing, truth, care in any form are doing good to the world. It is people like us who have degressed from basic beliefs who have actually no religion and are mere selfish individuals

We must fold our hands and be grateful to every person spreading kindness, faithful, forgiveness, support , love, sharing, truth. Just think how much time do you spend preaching this or even following this and you will realise who are assets to society and who are the liabilities and the root cause for selfishness, crime, torture, politics, unfailthfulness, cheats

[Brian]

Tao, yes, I find it interesting also that this is a post that keeps on posting. Regarding your (and others') language, I tend to be earthy in my speech when talking face to face also.

I just had a conversation with a friend/landscaper/Garden Poet in which I said "fucking," "bullshit," and such numerous times. It just fit with the subject matter.

It's no problem with me when people express themselves obscenely creatively, so long as it flows naturally (as in conversation) and isn't only intended to hurt someone else.

George, I appreciate your sentiments. But in line with my previous comments about strong language, there's a place for warm and fuzzy and there's a place for cold and hard. It depends on the situation.

Many religious people talk the morality talk without walking the walk. Other non-religious people just act morally without making a big deal of it.

Research has shown no connection between religiosity and morality. None. There are good people on both sides of the secular aisle. I don't consider that pointing out the downsides of religion takes away from the upsides.

Those -- the upsides -- aren't due to religion itself, though. People join together in communities and enjoy a spirit of fellowship, mutual aid, and giving all the time without this being under the banner of religion.

So there's good reason to criticize the negative aspects of religion and to point out that everything good about religiosity can be had without the dogma and divisiveness.

Join a Rotary Club. Or Habitat for Humanity. Or whatever. You don't find people going to war over which Rotary Club possesses the truth.

[tao]

George,

I guess maybe you need or seserve to be "shocked".

Fyi, I for one don't want or need any such "beliefs" or "religion". And I have not "degressed" either. So as I said to another recently, speak only for yourself, not for others. You are just another typical so-and-so going around telling others how they should live. You are the one who is preaching. And your preaching is not needed... You yourself should just shut-up and practice whatever you would preach to others about. And no one "must" fold their hands either, or do any such thing.

[Paul]

Tao,

Tao said "You yourself should just shut-up".
So why don't you shut the f*** up Tao. You should practise this first before preaching George.

Also, shove all your comments on the blog right back up your big, filthy and dirty ass before preaching this to gurucharn singji.

[vbX]

Find the these Internet chats incomplete because one can't see faces or hear intonations. People write a response and posted it, but they can't see the faces of the other posters, how their post affected them. Maybe (just maybe) we might feel bad if we knew we had hurt somebody's feelings?

Maybe we form some image of the person that we are responding to that is wrong, or way off the mark. Maybe we imagine a Catholic nun holding a ruler, or some red-faced and grim preacher when, in fact, it might be a 80 year old woman who is crippled with arthritis and is just passing by to share her thoughts because the only company she has is her dog and her kids never come to visit her.

IMO, we might do worse than to err on the side of compassion and generosity.

[tao]

Paul,

First, go tell yourself to shut-up you stupid fool. This is a place where people express their opinions. I was expressing mine. Go somewhere else if you don't like that. Fyi, I did not preach to George. I don't preach religion or spirituality, but I do tend to criticise those who do. Go back and read my comment to George. George was the one who was preaching, not I. If someone like George is going to get preachy, then I am probably going to tell him to shut-up. I am not fond of spiritual or moralistic preaching, no matter how nice and positive it may sound. I believe in practicing instead of preaching.

Second, I also did not "preach" to gurucharan singj. He said "RADA SOAMI JI", and so I told his to shove it. You gotta problem with that? You think that it's taboo to criticise "RADA SOAMI JI"? As if that is some kind of sacred cow? ... If thats what you think, then you can "shove-it" too.

Grow-up you immature little twerp.

[tao]

My unholy goodness! ... July 18, 2005 was indeed a very very fertile day for the ole un-Pastor and his infamous "Church of the Churchless".

And remember, our tireless un-Pastor is the only one who's gonna be allowed to do any preachin around these here parts.

Signed: Doctor Tao

[Paul]

So grow up Tao now and start to practise. By the way what do you practice?

You say "I am not fond of spiritual or moralistic preaching, no matter how nice and positive it may sound. I believe in practicing instead of preaching."

From you statement above it seems you only practice slandering and/or criticism of nice, positive and spiritual or moralistic preaching.

Every year you are getting older by an year, Tao and I just fail to understand the negativity that you are filled with to an extent that you say:

"I am not fond of spiritual or moralistic preaching, no matter how nice and positive it may sound."

So my question to you my dear friend is how and what can you even practise?

Isn't high time for you to grow up and mature into positivity?! Grow up Tao, grow up.

[Robert Paul Howard]

To all,

I note that on June 28, 2007, Brian wrote: "So here's an offer (it's always been open, but not stated explicitly): if you've got something churchless to say, write it up and email me." I presume his offer still stands.

Robert Paul Howard

[tao]

Paul,

You just don't get it do you? I don't have anything to "practice", because unlike some others who visit this forum, I don't preach.

You said: "So....start to practice." -and- "By the way what do you practice?"

What do you mean? Practice what? I don't practice anything.

You said: "...it seems you only practice slandering and/or criticism of nice, positive and spiritual or moralistic preaching."

I don't "practice slandering", but you are correct in that I most certainly do criticise what you call "nice, positive and spiritual or moralistic preaching". I think spititual and moralistic preaching really sucks.

You said: "I just fail to understand the negativity".

For me to say "I am not fond of spiritual or moralistic preaching, no matter how nice and positive it may sound", is hardly "negativity". Sorry that my honesty doesn't appeal to your over-sensitivity and the immature dreamworld that you inhabit.

You said: "So my question to you ... is how and what can you even practise?

As I said, I don't "practice" anything. Life is in the living.

You said: "Isn't high time for you to grow ... into positivity?"

I am neither positive nor negative. And I cedrtainly don't buy any of your artifically contrived notions of "positivity". You are dreaming dude. Wake-up and realize that other people just don't have to conform to your petty personal expectations and/or values. I pointed out that it is indeed rather "immature" of you to think so. But apparently all you are capable of doing is nothing more than a pathetically futile attempt at projecting your immaturity back upon me.

And so therfore you aren't even worth discussing this issue with any further.

[Paul]

I just could not stop laughing reading Tao's immature reaction. You show little smoke to the gunpowder and the gunpowder explodes!

Tao, if life is in the living then live it and as you say, "people just don't have to conform values." In that case people should be slanderers, rapists, murderers, alcoholics and drug-addicts, I suppose.

Good thinking, Tao, good thinking, keep it up and keep living life, but remember one day you have to pay the price - whatever you sow, so shall you reap!

Readers of this churchless blog, wait for another explosion from Tao.

[tao]

Paul,

Sadly, you are just not nearly as smart as you try to appear. In fact, you are so transparent that it's quite obvious how mentally conditioned and downright stupid you are about the issues that are presented and discussed here.

Your agenda on this blog is more or less that of a troll. You come here and whine about criticism and disrespect, but yet you actually show no respect for those whose views differ from yours. You whine and object to criticism of the Santmat/RS cult and its gurus or so-called "masters" and about other spiritual persuasions and religious dogma, and yet you yourself criticise (without substance) the critics, and even the author of this blog.

It is so obvious that you are nothing more than a typical sycophant in denial who runs around defending absurd religious and spiritual cult dogma by calling it "virtue". You just cannot tolerate that anyone would reveal the nonsense and absurdity of your sacred cows. You belong back with your master, sangat, cult, or temple.... because your comments here are only revealing what a pathetic fool you really are.

[Paul]

There goes the old troll and the pathetic fool, Tao again! Laughs...

[tao]

Paul, you just proved my point about you perfectly. Apparently you are so bereft of any substance that all you can come up with is to mimic or repeat various terms (such as "troll", "pathetic", "fool", etc) that I have used to describe you... just like a parrot. I need not say anymore.

[Paul]

Tao, and you just proved another pint to me that you are just a puppet of the "Church of Churchless" cult whose Guru is Brian Hines and like a parrot you keep singing and repeating words in support whatever he writes on this blog. Like blind-faithed to this churchless cult you come in here with your comments to tell people to "put-up or shut-up" - You need to practise this. You seem to me without brains of your own. You just keep supporting your guru or master Brain "blindly like a parrot." Grow up and use your brains!!

[tao]

Paul,

I am certainly not "a puppet" of anyone, and if you had any awareness at all, you would already know that I despise cults.

I also very rarely show any "support" for what Brian writes, and for you to portray him as any kind of "Guru", shows what an absolute idiot you are.

This site is simply Brian's blog with a comment forum. It's definitely not a cult, and I see no commenter here who regards Brian as a guru... certainly not myself. However, you have shown what a shallow and disingenuous ass YOU are for saying so.

It is so obvious that you are in a spiritual dreamland, and also in denial and unable to think for yourself. Your comments here reveal you to be nothing but a typically weak-minded troll who has knee-jerk reactions to any sort of criticisms that are leveled towards you and your ridiculous spiritual myths and sacred cows.

Your repeated mimicing only shows just how shallow and immature you really are.

[atul]

RADHA SOAMI TO All

[ATUL]

DEAR GURCHARAN SINGH
RADHA SOAMI
We all love BABA JI and his beloved sangat

[ATUL]

RADHA SOAMI TO ALL WHO LOVE AND CRITICIZE BABA JI
RADHA SOAMI TO U BRIAN TAO

[Arya]

to much hate in this forum. RSSB made my atheist grandpa into a believer and helped him to quit drinking the first time he saw em, and also helped my great uncle get off the booze. Granddad has been a follower for near 27yrs. He didn't believe they could help and only went coz Nan heard a lot about them, and dragged him and great uncle a long. Charan Singh who was head at the time, gave my grand dad a prayer and it helped him a lot. Im not a RSSB follower, My Fam is mixed of Dharma Sects and faith, From Sikhism To Arya Samaj to Shiva worshipers. So if people claim RSSB doesn't work for them thats cool there is many religions/beliefs out their to cater to your own, thats the beauty. As for RSSB my granddad loves em coz its simple - Meditation, and repeating prayers/Nam, no ritualistic dogmatic stuff, live a clean healthy life, no castes, no idol worship or even going temple to worship and most important My grand dad does not care for much in philosophy like dualism or non-dualism, karma effect, or cosmology like other Hindu schools teach or Buddhist or Jainism teach. He is a simple man who has found a faith that teaches the simple ways of attaining joy and God-realization. And to me, if his happy finding it, then awesome. The Guru's Of sikhism were very Simple in teachings, they taught morals and devotional love for God with chanting Sat Nam, Waheguru and so forth. And the basic ethical foundations.
Everything is a Perception, what does not work for you, will work for someone else...
Simple.
P.s I follow more Buddha's philosophy with a touch of Dualistic belief... in case ppl think im a RSSB follower.

[Tucson Bob]

Arya,
Actually there is a lot of "ritualistic dogmatic stuff" in Sant Mat:

-2.5 hrs meditation every day.

-Simran throughout the day whenever possible.

-not one beer, not one glass of wine, one puff of a joint, ever.

-strict veg diet. no compromise. including no mayonaise or anything containing even a fraction of an egg or a bit of cheese with rennet, ever.

-no sex out of wedlock, ever.

-the master is God in human form.

-Only he can take you to the "highest" spiritual region.

-He administers all your karma.

-ONLY by initiation by a "perfect" master can you be liberated.

-Manmukhs are bad, gurmukhs are good.

-The Sant Mat 'secret handshake'...palms together saying "Radha Soami", in some cases impulsively to the point of neurosis.

and I could go on for quite a while.

If someone finds peace and happiness doing this path, fine, but they should not be under the illusion that they are not following a religious cult with all the trappings and dogmatic, blind beliefs associated with such groups. Sant Mat is a "pie in the sky" belief system. Where is the proof that anyone, including the master, has acheived God-realization following the methods taught by Sant Mat or that such a state even exists?

I'm sorry, but ultimately you're on your own to find your own truth for yourself. You are the only one who can know it, and it will only be known when you know it. No one can know it for you. How can you know that they know unless you already know it?

There may be guides and teachers as you live your life, but beware of one who places himself on the pedestal of perfection or allows others to do it for them.

A hint that helped me: What you are looking for is THIS which is looking for IT.

[tao]

For those spiritually uninformed, uneducated, and naive folks like Arya who have been mislead into blindly believing that Sant Mat and Radha Soami is somehow not full of dogma and ritual, I would just like to re-emphasize what Tuscon Bob wrote:

"If someone finds peace and happiness doing this path, fine, but they should not be under the illusion that they are not following a religious cult with all the trappings and dogmatic, blind beliefs associated with such groups. Sant Mat is a "pie in the sky" belief system. Where is the proof that anyone, including the master, has acheived God-realization following the methods taught by Sant Mat or that such a state even exists?

I'm sorry, but ultimately you're on your own to find your own truth for yourself. You are the only one who can know it, and it will only be known when you know it. No one can know it for you. How can you know that they know unless you already know it?

There may be guides and teachers as you live your life, but beware of one who places himself on the pedestal of perfection or allows others to do it for them."

That's very right-on advice, and very well said. I couldn't agree more.

The primary problem with all Sant mat and RS believers and supporters is that they are all so unwilling to look to whether or not there is any validity to what they have been told. They have blindly bought into something which has no tangible proof, something which is merely an abstract supposion, something which is not truth but is in fact only just a belief or fantasy which has no substance, no reality. This unwillingness actually reveals a deep-seated denial of truth, rather than a burning desire for the truth.

[Jaya]

Top all of you in this discussion.
Discussion , Arguments on spirituallity are wasre of time. If you have faith , you will believe. If not you will keep searching all your life for inner peace and self realisation. I am a radhasoami, I dont critize other beleifs or religion, each have their own basis, own beliefs. No one of you can claim knowledge on santmat, radhasoami. the rule which were discussed earlier- ahimsa is just about being a vegetarian and not killing spiders . there is a basis for it. we being Human being need to eat to survive. each breath we take we inhale germs which are also living beings. Whatever we eat was living before . To do as little harm as possible it ask us to be a vegetarian. Just think of a situation where somenoe picks a flower from your plant and someone kills your pet dog. Whom are you going to be anmgry with the person who just plucked one flower or killed your dog. Ask this question to youself. Even still you are convinced I am ok but i am not going to be like youll and crticise anyone. there is a saying If you cannot say good about some one dont say anything

[tao]

Jaya,

First of all, you obviously have no comprehension about the relevance and value of the many articles, discussions, and comments which pertain to Radha Soami and Sant Mat that are psoted on this blog.

Second, since you are so very uninformed, the so-called "Arguments on spirituality" that you mention are actually a fundamental facet and part of the very foundation and fabric of most all of the great spiritual and philosophical traditions, both east and west. Therefore, you are truly very immature to think otherwise and to dismiss it as a "waste of time". And your comment was obvious evidence of that (that you are very immature spiritually).

Third, faith and belief are only valued by those who have no real knowledge or substance. And so contrary to your blndness and ignorance, faith and belief have no place whatsoever when it comes to "self-realisation".

Fourth, you claim that you are "a radhasoami". If that is how you see yourself, then you obviously do not have, or even understand, "self-realisation".

Fifth, you said that you don't criticise, but then you immediately go on to say: "No one of you can claim knowledge on santmat, radhasoami." Actually, you have no idea as to what anyone here knows about santmat. In fact there happen to be several people here who have many many decades more experience and far deeper knowledge of Sant Mat and Radha Soami Mat than you do, or that you will ever have. So therefore, besides being very immature spiritually and philosophically, you are also an stupid impudent little fool as well.

Sixth, your insipid preaching, ie babbling about vegetarianism and "ahimsa", is about as pathetic and lame as it gets. You should go back to the RS cult nursery school where you belong.

[Catherine]

Jaya, Tao raises a very valuable point: Spiritual argument or discussion 'is the very foundation and fabric of most all of the great spiritual and philosophical traditions, both east and west.'

Sant mat puts a huge muffler on interactive debate. Having lived through the sant mat approach I know that not placing a question mark after or infront of anything faith- based is debilitating and has a 'dumbing down'effect on practisioners.

Your argument for vegetarianism is not originated by Sant Mat.

[Vijay]

Once you are in RSSB . You just cannot find better path . No matter how far you can go away but there is no where to go . we have to come back and knock same door .some time world is more fun but more pain in this fun than enjoyment .Path is very clear but very very hard . We have full knowledge of god , karma and world which we just could not gain anywhere or anyother path .
I am just missing satsang from years but looking forward to see babaji again in next meeting

[tao]

Vijay,

On the contrary, once you are "in RSSB", you are in a heap a' trouble. No "better path" you say? You are sooo lost. Anywhere is better than authoritarian guru-cult dogma. The endless wonder of life is waiting beyond the narrow confines of RS BS. There is everywhere to go. Sorry for you that you have such a sad vision of life as "pain". You have no such "full knowledge of god , karma and world". In fact, you don't even have a clue.

You have been "missing" more than just satsang. You are missing some marbles. And your "babaji"... well he nothing more than a cheap fraudulent guru that only stupid childish fools want to "see" and believe in.

[jeremy]

God has made dogs meant to bark, so they are doing their job.Some humans are born with animal instincts, you cannot blame them because they are unfortunate due their deeds to you tao

[jeremy]

instead of criticising any path tao why don't you post your experience what is right and wrong? or shut up and put your filthy face in your f***ing a**.

[tao]

Jeremy,

Your rather pathetic comments above are nothing more than a sad and unfortunate testimony of your ignorance, stupidity, anger, and foolishness.

It's also funny when clueless morons like you make such asses out of themselves in a forum such as this.

Heh heh heh

[vijay]

I am sorry ,Tao and germy . I take my comment back
Good luck
Have a nice life

[Sid See]

The human tendency to create hierarchies, is just that, and is not a basis to cast judgment upon RSSB.

No one needs a Leader or Master to follow in the general sense, but one does need a "guide" when one's consciousness has entered into the inner spiritual planes.

Of course, if one is unaware, or simply has never experienced these inner planes, one could easily dismiss all Satsangi's as simply "believers" in just another cult of followers, never realizing the real purpose for the Satguru.

Satsangi's can be just as self-righteous as any other believer, as the Ego is most difficult to subdue. That you find reason to cast judgment upon RSSB and Satsangi's in general, simply illustrates the path of egomaniacal blindness and narrow-mindedness that you had chosen for this lifetime.

Perhaps it will be different in your next one...

Sid See

[Brian]

Sid See, on behalf of whoever you're referring to, thanks for the good wishes for the next life.

I have a request. You used the word "one" rather than "I" in referring to your beliefs and experiences. Could you restate what you said in direct "I" language?

What I mean is, can you say "I have experienced inner mystical planes of consciousness. While there I have been guided by the guru, _______ (name)."

Something like that. I sincerely want to better understand what reality is all about. It's frustrating when people speak generally of what they know, rather than offering direct evidence (even subjective).

Though you speak negatively of the ego, you've just claimed to know much more than I do. Or what almost everyone else knows. I think it'd be befitting for you to directly say "I know this" rather than making your claims indirectly.

If you know the truth, say it. Otherwise, readers like me are going to think, "Well, there's another opinion, among many."

[Parveen]

Dear tao,
What a man u r? I have never seen a person like you who believe in God so much. You have real believe in RSSB than any other who gives coment on this site.Your comment posting on this site proves ,u are the real believer of RSSB.Your love with RSSB allow you to spend your costly time for writing or reading comments. Well done man continue to love GOD and RSSB. You are the true lover of RSSB.

[Sapient]

Parveen,
Responding to your previous post. Have you heard of scrupulosity? It is a psychiatric problem, a mental illness. Scrupulous person is always worried about accidentally doing any bad karma, and he is so obsessed about this that he stops doing any karma. I guess thats what you called surrender:) And why I am talking about it here- because thats what RSSB is making their disciples: scrupulous people; a group of people who are suffering from various anxiety disorders. And I am not bluffing here. My very close relative (a very strict dogmatic RSSB follower)has been diagnosed with scrupulosity. He got his last anxiety attack when he was scared of 'Babaji' for if he won't meditate properly , he will be dragged with the bulldozer. His doctor told me to get help from other follow satsangis cause he will be receptive to them and will try to fix his philosophy of life. To my utter surprise, I spoke with 8 satsangis and found out that they all were on some form of medication for anxiety disorder. All nice good hearted people obsessively worried about salvation and morality and trying to save themselves from some imaginary punishment. You might have joined this cult recently or simply are following cause you were born to dogmatic parents, stay there for few years, if you will have God's grace either you will be out of it without causing much harm to yourself like Tao or Brian, OR you will suffer everyday in fears of unknown.

Nick,
if you are so clear about your philosophy and think Tao is laughable, why do you keep visiting this blog? Do your simran and bhajan rather than wasting time here. Why are you getting challenged about somebody criticizing the path. Your post shows that you have been given the instructions from Dera to defend the RSSB. Seems like this blog is becoming too popular and RSSB is threatened. Less western followers means less dollars for them. (That reminds me, I don't understand that why do we have one money box in every room in Petaluma RSSB center. Gentle reminders to the disciples: don't forget to empty your pocket)

Thanks Brian for starting this blog. You are a good inspiration to me. You give me hope that my relative can be out of cult and won't suffer long with his RSSB beliefs.

And Thanks so much Tao, for not tolerating the RSSB nonsense. Initially I thought your language was rude, but I guess some people needs to be shaken badly before they utter any parrot philosophy. I have had enough of preaching from these people. Every RSSB satsangi loves to preach. They are sick delusional people who can kill the innocence in other people while trying to gain their salvation.

[tao]

Sapient,

Thanks. Yes "delusional people". You sure got that one right. Glad to see that you've seen beyond the surface of the RS guru-cult conditioning, and contrived religious moral dogma and holier-than-thou judgementalism.

As for my so-called "rude language" that I use, well my philosopy is whatever is necessary to make the point. And if mere words upsets some people, then that just shows that they have hang-ups and are also in denial about something. So the sooner they face the truth about how detrimental authoritarian guru-cultism and rigid dogma is, the better for them. Sometimes medicine is bitter, but for those who are sick, in the end it's sure worth it.

People can either wake-up easily, or put up a big struggle and fuss. It's all up to them.

Best of luck and blessings to you with your sincere efforts to help liberate your relative who is still trapped in the insidious cult mind-control web of RSSB.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Tao & Sapient,

I have gone through your words on this blog about most of the satsangies of RSSB. You are absolutely clear in your words which are straight forward and true to a very large extent.

Well, it is your own experience which has prompted you to look for an alternative and better course of study to understand the ultimate energy which is sustaining this universe and us that has science been struggling to explain.

I wish all of you a success in future which I understand you will either have it or somebody else will accomplish your task if this puppet of flesh yields to the vagaries of nature or ever degenerating this man machine gives in.

Your all asses

[tao]

To the cowardly hit-and-run commentor who refuses to identify him/her self:

We all may be "asses".... but you are the shit that gets flushed down the toilet.

Bye Bye.... Fluuussshhh....

[Roger]

Tao,

Have you noticed someone using your "Tao" name lately? Some times I get confused, regarding some statements. Oh well, no big deal. I like the 60 year old biker dude.

[sapient]

Rakesh,
I don't understand your comments. I didn't say that I am looking for any alternative course or actually any course of study to understand anything?

Are you trying to say that all the anxiety disorders are basically due to some ultimate energy which disciples are unable to sustain and science is struggling to explain. I am sorry if I misunderstood you, but I have heard this argument a lot in Petaluma sewa center,while my research of finding satsangis with anxiety disorders. I heard this argument, that disciples with disorders are those who have been given lots of grace by the Master but were unable to sustain the grace (and such people are then compared to Bulle shah..a disciple who went crazy for his master..) Isn't it a ridiculous argument?

Just FYI, science clearly understand this problem and there are a bunch of medicines already available and if a person dedicatedly takes medicine for 5-6 months, all the grace comes back and person can think of living a normal life.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Sapient,

I normally say that words have a very limited scope of expression. Either these are wrongly expressed or misunderstood. I was not at all talking about the energy that you have expressed. Science has now better understood the human psychological/ psychiatric problems than the days of Bulle Shah etc. Medicines have been evolved which can set right the anxiety disorders within 4 -5 months, is irrefutable.

I am a geologist by profession and introduced to the subject in 1974. Let us not debate “to understand the ultimate energy which is sustaining this universe and us that has science been struggling to explain”.

In death, it is not the functions of the vital organs of a person which stop working alone but the force working to set those functions is withdrawn. It is not difficult even to explain the source of that force. Ample number of words and phenomenon are known to put forth to explain it. Yet something is missing…………To explore and express this missing…………………, all of us are struggling to explain. If you feel nothing remains to explain now and everything has been accomplished. YOU ARE GENIOUS AND I BOW BEFORE YOU.

KNOWLEDGE ALWAYS FOLLOWS PROGRESS………………………………..

Rest in next. I shall love to hear from you, not about my poor expression but some addendum from your end.

[Chris]

Rakesh--

Your words always come across comforting. I am not sure why I feel that way when I read the things you write. There is something postitive about your tone. Anyway, I don't normally give compliments.

--Chris

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Chris,
Thanks! It is your perception.

[Chris]

Rakesh--

Yes, of course, I wrote it! It may also be something else.

--Chris

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Chris,
Thank once again.
With love.

Bhasin

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Chris,
Thank once again.
With love.

Bhasin

[Chris]

Rakesh--

Thanks friend.

--Chris

[Rakesh Sharma]

Hello fellow members...I have recently been blessed with nam-dan (better to say have been on the initiation recently)...I am full time writer and part time stock broker and analyst...frankly speaking I couldn't stop myself after reading this forum to comment...as I am just like a kid in front of you people so let's keep my thoughts unfolded for the future. Ameen!

[Mr.Jatender Singh Talwandi]

Radha Swami

Respected Sir/Mam

I Jatender Singh Talwandi a resident of India I am a satsagi for the last 20 years and my entire family is also satsagi I belive in RSSB a lot but i dont know y my wish is not fullfilled I was trying for the higher education in uk I got the admission but the fee what they asked me was too high they were asking me around 15000 pounds which my parent cannot pay in their entire life i try to take the loans from the bank but the banks say that u should provide the security which i dont have so frm where i bring 15000 pounds that means my wish gone into the water if some one who is really a satsagi of RSSB and can help me to pay the fee i will repay her or him while doing the job if u know the mail of maharaj ji then ple forword my mail to him so that he will come to know i am in a need of money for my higher education.

[Deepak Kamat]

Dear Brian,

I am a 33 year old agnostic seeker from Mangalore in India. I was initiated by Gurinder Singh Dhillon 7 years ago.

During the time of initiation, I could clearly see a beam of light emerging from the Guru's eye and it hit me right on the spot where the "mystical third eye" is supposed to exist.

I have also heard that this mystical transmission of light can be had from several Gurus from other paths too.

Can you please give your views on the transmission of light from eye to eye by the Guru to the disciple. I would love to hear from you, since I believe you are balanced and analytical.

Thank You, Yours sincerely

Deepak Kamat

[Manjit]

Dear Deepak,

I know you addressed this question to Brian, but just wanted to commend you on your inquisitive nature.

Personally, I don't think anybody has an 'answer' to your question, most probably even the gurus themselves!

Basically, weird shit happens!

I too have had similar experiences around Gurinder, and know of hundreds of other peoples experiences around him and many, many other gurus. I also know of several similar type experiences happening around regular non-guru people.

The creation and our existence is a mysterious place. It's your sincere searching that may reveal some mysteries to you, and some modicum of peace.

Good luck friend....

[Deepak Kamat]

Dear Manjit,

Thank you for responding to my query.

I am happy to know that I am not alone. But, did you say that this transmission of light is possible even with laymen who have never meditated in their life time?

I thought the transmission was transference of shaktipat which only happens around mystics and "enlightened figures.

Or is it past life bonding? I know one of my friend who was treating his father on death bed. Just before his father died, he gave a last glance to my friend and a light jumped from eye to eye.

My question: Was the Guru (Gurinder) aware that he had actually transmitted light to me or did it just happen (Chandian effect, as Dr. David Lane puts it).

Incidentally, I actually wrote a letter to the Guru but I didn't receieve any reply from him in this regard.

Some of Osho's disciples also claim weird experiences in Osho's presence -- one of which is transmission of light and a feeling of expansion of the aura.

Initially, I too had that experience. But, these days I am running a lean patch when it comes to meditation.

Anyway, do you believe that personal experiences should not be disclosed. Conservative satsangis believe that talking about inner experiences leads to stoppage of Guru's grace. Do you believe that? Does it work? I have a hundred questions..... but I am unable to take an entirely rational stand because of personal "mystic experience".

And, yes, as you said, I am very inquisitive. So I am usually targetted by conservative satsangis in my area for my indiscrete behaviour which they say has led to stoppage of growth.

Hope to hear from you soon, Manjit, and also from Hines. And, yes, I entirely agree with Hines when he says that the behaviour of conservative satsangis is disgusting. Gurinder is definitely a saint (if not a satguru) for being able to manage the hordes of "idiotic" satsangis. I greatly respect him for that even if he had never initiated me.

Thank you Manjit.

[Manjit]

Hello Deepak,

Very interesting message! I really like your questioning, even in the face of the conservative satsangis. It's a great indicator of a strong and wise character!

I couldn't tell you if Gurinder was aware of your specific experience, but I consider it at least a possibility.

For me personally, I began to really question to what extent the gurus themselves consciously generate these experiences, when I became personally aware of similar experiences happening with total 'laymen'. When I say laymen, I mean people with a deep interest in mysticism, but certainely not 'gurus' if you see what I mean? I know these experiences definitely happened, because I was present. It was a strange 'pulling' beam of light from eye to eye.

From all my research into these things, I have come to a conclusion that no guru is really aware of either how these things happen, or how to control them consciously, but of course I may be wrong! Have you read Faqir Chand's writings? You may find some interesting insights into a 'gurus' mind there? It's all available online.

What I am personally confident in, is that this creation is a wonderfully mysterious place! I think there is more to some of these things than the reductionist scientist would have. Absolutely certain, in fact :-) It's allowing this mystery to penetrate our being, which is a beautiful thing imo.

I may be the wrong person to ask about sharing inner experiences! I have expressed almost all the expressable 'inner' experiences I have had openly on the internet, and with close friends and family. But, I was (thankfully!) never initiated, and never considered any problem with it.

However, I think different people are, well, different! Certain people may have pride in their experiences, which would be a strong reason to not disclose them. As a youngster, I never told my inner experiences to anyone, as it would have been the wrong time to do so.....as I considered them special, unique etc at the time. If you consider inner ecstasy identical to a cup of tea, then perhaps it is okay? :-)

Each to their own.

I also agree with you on your comments about Gurinder. Alas, on the internet, not many people will agree. Gurinder is doing a rather wonderful job, imo, of creating some sort of order in a massive sangat comprised of so many different types of people. Many, I'm sure, 'idiots' (hey, I was one too:).

Anyway, I wish you good luck in your searching, you sound like you are pretty much on the right track!

Take care my friend.

[Deepak Kamat]

Manjeet,

Have you really come across any person who could actually leave his body at will as the Radha Soami teaching puts it.

Whenever I visited Beas or even some other Ashram, I have come across hardcore meditators but not one with a perfect control of his body. It is even said that those who have gone in or those in total control do not speak. Is it?

If you know anyone, tell me. Personally, on my part, I did try the Radha Soami meditation after my initiation in 2000. However, I was never able to sustain my meditation beyond an hour at a stretch.

Just curious, why didn't you experiment with initiation after all those experiences.

Anyway, you seem to have a lot of experience in the Guru scene. How old r u and where are u?

Do tell me.

Bye friend.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Deepak,

Be patient. Move slowly. You have answered yourself by saying "Whenever ...................but not one with a perfect control of his body. It is even said that those who have gone in or those in total control do not speak. Is it?"

It is a law of the land; "those who speak, do no have the experience and those who have the experience, do not speak." Better write a letter to the master and adress your question to him, you will get the reply and proceed accordingly.

There is always a hidden helping hand. I hope by the time you will be reading this mail of mine your querry might be over.

I admit that I hold no authority whatsoever to rEply your question on this path of meditation. One is liable to fall abysmal depth in no time. Little experiences, if digested, will lead you to vast experiences which you will not like to discuss. I often say that experience is non-transferable. Discussing it, inflates the ego. It is this veil alone which alone has to be pierced. Otherwise 300 years of meditation will not give even an iota of experience.

THE ONLY THING MAN HAS DONE HAS ONLY CHANGED THE MATTER FROM ONE STATE TO THE OTHER.

THE ONLY THING THE MAN HAS CREATED ON THIS EARTH IS EGO, MORE EGO AND STILL MORE EGO WITH AGE AND CALLS IT EVOLUTION.

with lots of love,

[Deepak Kamat]

That is exactly the problem. The Guru does not answer directly. Plus there is confusion on Sant Mat version 1.0 and 2.0. There are also doubts if the experiences around the Guru happen by itself or is in the knowledge of the Guru.

If u can clear the confusion, clear it. The problem is that answers from the horse's mouth are not forthcoming. Atleast not for me. How about you, Rakesh?

[tao]

Just stopped by for a quick comment...

But I see things have rather degenerated in my absence. Such as another one of those annoying infestations of satsangi simple-mindedness.

To Jatender Singh Talwandi, Deepak Kamat, Rakesh Bhasin, and any other RSSB goonies that may be lurking.... Sadly, you guys are sooo pathically hung-up in siritually retarded RS guru-cult la-la-land. You and your goofy gooroo mentality really belongs back in India at the Dera, not here. Haven't you got anything more interesting to discuss besides that same old tired stale RS baloney? How boring. Wake-up before you waste your entire life.

I'm outta here.

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Dear Tao,

YOUR MUCH AWAITED REMARKS ARE MOST WELCOME.

YOU GO YOUR WAY I GO MINE..................

WITH LOTS OF LOVE,

HARE KRISN

Tao, since it doesn not interest you, and you do not find it the path of Santmat important by all means, LEAVE! No body is asking you to stay and give your useless in put anyways. And funny, your calling us the "goon"?

[Deepak Kamat]

Tao, ISKCON is a greater cult than RSSB. So you have got stuck from one cult to another. That's really funny. I wish you had stuck to your name of Tao which is a great path.

Before advising others, why don't u be free of cultish mentality?

[tao]

To Deepak,

Sorry to inform you, but apparently you are much dumber than you think you are.

Fyi, I have absolutely nothing to do with ANY cults, and that includes the ISKCON. I am not a member of ISKCON, not a follower or believer of ISKCON, and I have no connection with ISKCON in any way.

And I was never ever "stuck" in any sort of cult, and especially not RSSB or ISKCON. So unfortunately (for you) you don't know what you are talking about.

Furthermore, if you had any sort of minimal understanding of the Tao, then you would know that it is not and cannot be a "path". Never was, never will be. You are just another typical spiritual neophyte with your own ignorant "cultish mentality".

[tao]

Rakesh,

Thanks Bro, and peace and love to you too.

---------------------------

Now to the anonymous poster who is too stupid to sign his/her name...

Yes Santmat does not interest me, but I don't need to "LEAVE". This blog is not strictly an RSSB forum, and it is also certainly not a place for your "useless in put".

And yes, it is now quite obvious by your response that you are indeed a Santmat/RSSB "goon".

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Dear Tao,

To me you are a very interesting person. In India in local Hindi in parts of states of North India, Tao or Tau is a sobriquet for elder brother of one's father. He commands a lot of respect. That is how I take you.

With loving regards,

[tao]

Rakesh,

Thanks for your kind words. In years past, I've spent a lot of time in India, both northern and southern, but I was not familiar with that colloquialism.

For some odd reason that reminds me of Shivapuri Baba a yogi who lived to 137 years old. Back around 1970 in Nepal, some few miles outside of Kathmandu on the road to Bodenath, as a yogi I used to like to go and spend long contemplative afternoons alone in a very special peaceful meadow very near to where Shivapuri Baba's kutir had been located among the whispering trees of the forest up on a hill beyond the far side of the river above the ancient Pashupatinath temple. Somehow, his unique spirit and soft glowing presence was still there, like a spiritual great uncle. His teaching was called svadharma - right life.

I suppose that I hold that same kind of feeling or regard for him as you have described.

[Alexander Dhah]

My experience with the Radha Soami Satsang Beas has been gained from attending local and national Satsangs(religious meetings) with my family.It seems to me that the top blog concerning an email from a 'Netemara' on this page is lined with errors, leading to your sceptism of the Radha Soami path. I would like to explain to you exactly the belief i share in regards to our path. 'We' are not a 'Religion' or a 'Philosophy' as the conventional terms define faiths. The Radha Soami's believe in a path, the instructions laid out are words of guidance, to increase ones good karma and prevent a further creation of bad karma. Some bad Karma, yes, is believed to be the result of bad decisions in a previous life causing misdeeds and the very point of seeking forgiveness by performing good deeds is for the misdeeds in a past life and the current life being repented. This can be understood from the example of a scale. For ones misdeeds can be placed on one end of a scale, for enlightenment one must counterbalance by performing good deeds, thus opening ones heart to better courses of action and decision making. Netemara's experience with Radha Soami Satsang Beas seems limited-forgive me- for her belief that Radha Soami's only believe it is wrong to kill spiders and adds that they are vegetarians afterwards. Surely if your vegetarian you do not agree wth the killing of any animals. Where such a deed can be avoided, is this not the right course of action? It is better to allow God's creatures to exist and live on, rather then kill them, merely because of a preference for the taste of a beings flesh. Animals may not be as intelligent as human beings in ways which we recognise, however they DO have emotions (fear), as we do, hence ones double standards for indulgence, causing the killing of an animal. What tells you shoudln't eat your pet dog for dinner, preference? Just because you can't put a lead around an animal and you have difficulty recognising the instincts and emotions of smaller life forms thus preventing affection or apprectiation of the living being, does not justify your actions of paying your butcher to kill your prefered animal 'FOR' you so that you can enjoy eating it. Try to imagine swapping places with the animal... Deterence from killing a living being does NOT mean that bad karma will not occur to you, it means that you will not incur FURTHER bad karma for funding the killing of an animal and becomes a deed incurring Good Karma.

Not all Catholics are self-rightous and narrow-minded, this is a clear case of generalisation, base opinions on individuals, pidgeon holing is not as black and white as you suggest.

It seems to me that your knowledge of the Radha Soami path is much too limited to be criticising it. Perhaps some reading up may assist your perception of us. 'Dogmatic' suggests the guidance of the path must be immediate and is harshly imposed, this is not so, Babaji merely shares his guidance with us and we learn from it.

For those who genuinely do not believe that Babaji has got lessons for us all, look at Radha Soami's from this perspective. Take the example of a person who 'religiously' commits themselves to performing good deeds and not bad, with many years of life experience as a senior human being and the bearer of sane, rational and fair mentality. If there is not a better teacher for good life lessons, who is? Someone who is not affected by Superficial pursuits, rises out of bed in the morning, meditates and devotes the day to more good deeds- This is who you are writing about. The best example i could give is a grandparent, how many useful lessons can be learned from senior citizens, people who have experienced life for many more years then you, spent tireless year perfecting the best way to make a cup of tea or thought about the same issue many more times then yourself, surely this would amount to a very nice tasting cup of tea. We merely gain wisdom from a fellow human-being, a lot more clean-living then ourselves, not a bad way to go, considering that many are driven by their Id's and Ego's. The Superego (ones moral perception) is what is enhanced within the Radha Soami path and it is this pursuit we follow. Whether you believe in God or not, there are many lessons for clean living which can be learned from someone who is more experienced in life than ourselves and for those of a spiritual nature meditation is a smiling route to enlightenment as it allows us to carry on purifying the mind, by clearing our thoughts.

Anyone who struggles with such guidance is always welcome to voice their concerns directly to Baba Ji, i have heard many people do so and Baba Ji has offered them on many occasions with positive feedback, if applied then the problem cannot persist with the application of a solution.

Thank You for reading this. Radha Soami.

[Alexander Dhah]

I would be glad to read some feedback, it's interesting to see the different perspectives of those from different cultures, im a learner not a teacher but it seems like quite a few of us have resorted to bickering, keeping it civil is probably a good idea people... I welcome a debate with all of you if you have the time...

Radha Soami

[Sachin Arora]

Dear All ,

I Can Just Say that this is really a path which is clear, no curves ,no breakers just a smooth ride to our Father i.e. God

Radha Soami

[Pam]

Hi all
Very interesting blog!
I was born into a satsangi family and brought up - meaning veggie and all that - from birth. To be honest I have never felt pressurised by family/friends/fellow satsangis etc in this faith. I recently sat for initiation of my freewill after getting married and have never encountered any negativity from my husband or inlaws.
I have found this path to be relatively easier with much less restrictions- no rituals etc which I find very difficult to handle - nor have I encountered hard sell converting!
Every religion etc has a history - we were not there we don't know what really happened - is there any point in splitting hairs?
What matters is the here and now and not religion we are but what kind of person we are and what we do day to day.
be a good person and set a good example to all around and you will shine - we all need faith - in ourselves and each other
Take care all!

[tAo]

Alexander Dhah,

To be quite frank, you are so full of it... full of Radha Soami cult dogma and guru-bhakti beliefs that is... And full of crap too.

This blog is not some venue for preaching and proseltizing Sant Mat and Radha Soami doctrine and lame "Babaji" baloney. Your blind faith in RSSB is your own personal business, but it is not appropriate to dump it upon us here. Most of us here already know all about it and more, and so are not interesred in being preached to about Sant Mat and having your typical Babaji devotional BS posted repeatedly. Go and preach to the RS sangat at your local satsang if you wish to do that. This is not the place. This forum is for scientific and philosophical discussion, not for preaching stale old RSSB cult dogma. Don't come here like you're some sort of expert and others are dim-wits. You ought to at least read some of the diverse content here before posting your RSSB cult garbage.

However, if you wish to engage in intelligent discussion about the various philosphical and scientific issues that Brian raises, then that's alright. JUst keep your RSSB baloney out of it.

Got the message?

[Rakesh Bhasin]

Alexander Dhah,
I have gone through your comments. Tao is currect to a large extent. But if you go through Tao's comments here and in other posts. These are extreme.It is his style.He has given exremely well comments on various philosphies. Along with scientific discussion, this blog has a tendency to drag each other. There are only a few people who put forth their comments keeping in view the sentiments of others.

Yet I feel it is a worth blog of its own kind. Someone has said in Hindi " UTAM VIDYA LEEJIYE YADDAPI NEECH PE HOYE." It means in english, one must accept the right teachings even if it comes fro a lowely person.

I have always thanked Tao for his remarks as
he has always unknowingly helped me to improve. From his comments and his posts, I equate him with almond which has a hard shell but soft and sweet kernel.

Live with sweet experiences. We all have them from some quarter or the other.

regards

[Shashi]

Hai,
I am a neophyte been initiated in this path around 5 years back. I was surprised to read so many different views in this article. I must clarify some basic things of santmat. Sant mat generally means association with truth. Guru I mean the inner guru helps us in developing this association.

So the questions which every one must ask before entering this path is
1. What do they want??
2. Why do they want it???

Satsang is not just attending satsangs, doing seva etc, it is a way of life. It is a inner path. so it is difficult to generalise it and make it fit all. It is true that a person can be in this path and yet be blind for many years. So everythings depends upon our past samskaras (attitudes and tendencies). So instead of criticising others of their shortcomings let us work more on ourtself and find truth.

[dan]

Hi,

had a good read of all this. I am not a RS initiate. I went to the satsang at haynes park as I was told that the babaji will be there so i thought lets see what is all the fuss about. I went there and i could guess there might have been at least 1000 plus poeple. It was all normal. there was some sort of hym singing by a lady. I was told look into his eyes and i will feel something. All of the sudden babji comes through into the tent with hands together. the lady singing the hyms had some sort of an adrelaline rush as her voice sort of changed and poeple around started putting the hands together. Some ladies started crying and i thought what the fk? he sat at his conference table on a raised floor and quickly scanned over everyone sitting on the cold floor and chairs. to be honest I felt nothing seeing him. the day was was a chance for poeple to ask questions but we were told no personal questions allowed. I listened on and one young girl about maybe 23 yrs old said how do i pray to you? he said you should pray to god. pretty good answer, me thinks. others got up and some asked for bakshi - i don't know the english eqv maybe but maybe asking for salvation or mercy??? but it seemed he felt nothing. overall it seemed like people were looking up at him as some sort of saviour. his answers to people's questions were so simple that even i could answer them and if not even better and i ain't religous at all but just knowledgable. There were a number of points i made to his followers who i came with and they asked what i thought and these were:

. a true saint has no need to live a materialistic life i.e. the listed building together with the huge acre of land he has.
. a true saint is a humble person i.e. Guru Nanak, Lord Jesus Christ are examples. he was too formal and professional on the stage even in a swinging office chair.
. a true saint would have sat on the floor like everyone else as he would consider himself to be at the same level as others i.e. equal.
. a true saint lives a simple life hence first point i made (materialistic).
. i have heard his children have gone to a private school so where does the money come from to fund this - donations?
. the seva i saw there i could call it nothing but building and site maintenance services, not seva. the humble definition of seva is to do it with the kindest of human nature, to do seva that a human being in need will benefit from it i.e. a poor or homeless person, to do seva where you treat others equally, to do seva where your mind is with god and it is focused on the seva you are undertaking. the stories i heard from there were of young/old people who seem to like power in their hands, like to gossip about others.

understandably no one is perfect so there is scope for change for those on seva. There is no doubt it is an organisation and not a religion, as the satsang attendees were english, asian and what seemed like one muslim family, so its clear it is some sort of spiritual path. The baba seemed to do a good job as his focus was to teach the sangat about meditation to god but in exchange for that he wanted initiation for new comers and that is wrong according some questions asked. its like i srcatch your back and you do mine. true saints don't behave like this. they aim is to spread message of god or whatever knowledge they have and not to ask for anything for in return (to give for return of something is old business/trade tactics). true saints even forbid photo being taken and thats how dettached they are from worldly needs and pressures. He on the other hand has nice photos of himself and his previous master hung in homes of his followers walls and window seels, bedrooms (thankfully not bathrooms!) his message was good but he has a huge responsibility to ensure his message is not taken the wrong way i.e. thinking that he is some sort of saviour, guru, form of god when clearly he is just a mortal anus hole with no godly powers in his possesion. if he does not clear this then i can clearly say he wants people to see him as some superior person, that if you believe in him then you will meet god via him and that is clearly wrong.

India is home to a lot of religions and sults and since its a third world country, twats like him are taking advantage of vunerable poeple who are desparate for a good outcome and get sucked into his trap. i mean look at sai baba reloaded. he is commiting abuse and getting away with it thanks to india's democracy.

I have heard that RS baba uses sections out of the guru granth sahib. the guru granth sahib clearly says that belief in a mortal human being is wrong and that the ultimate guru is the granth. i ain't no ego fested person as all religions' in the world have one aim to believe in god and these holy scriptures are written and compiled by messengers from god (so i am told) but people have misinterpretted them and using these scriptures to do wrong for their own advantage. the guru granth sahib only contains knowledge, common sense and no where in it will you find points where it downgrades other faiths or people or promotes itself, justifies war or death. Muslim scholars will back this up as they have studied the holy sciptures to quite some depth. My point is that if babaji is portraying himself like the saviour and is using sections from guru granth then he should consider reading that part (that is if he can read those complex scripts) and see what he is doing and what the sangat is seeing.

A direct connection to god is ideal via simple meditiation but like some have said you need to understand yourself first and only you as a person can do that no third person can help other than taking advantage of your desparate cry. Going through ups and downs in life will always happen but it does not mean when you go through desparate times that you should look up to a mortal person/conman for inspiration and guidance. if you can't give yourself inspiration then what good inspiration will a mortal baba do since only you know yourself? From what i saw there, poeple had learnt nothing maybe only less than 10 poeple out of 1000 may have changed into good poeple and few of them who i know and i won't describe them as self centred or bad.

there are some damn right arrogant, selfish and self centered RS poeple who i know and there is no other way i can describe them and good thing i didn't see them there.

For those who are sikhs and follow this path must understand that your 10th guru made it clear that the guru granth sahib is the ultimate guru and no other shall succeed it but why you have gone ahead and believe in this mortal person beats me since he uses sections out of the guru granth to make himself look good. I as a sikh don't believe in the sikh guru's as some sort of idol or picture worshipping as they forbidded this and for their respect i don't do this but i believe that the life they lived and the actions they have done carry certain messages/meaning which we as sikhs (others please feel free) need to interpret and apply to ourselves to live a good life regardless of religion or caste.

Good day to you all.
Dan

[Tucson]

Dan has seen "outside the box" of RS cultism. Followers want it to be true so desperately that they put on blinders to what is obvious and right in front of them.

[sam]

Dear Tau,

please advise,what are the five sounds called ie shabads?
why do you need a living master and why at initiation, if god is within you and the soul is from the creator we are one with him alredy, so we are one with god. if we have the understanding and have the insight, then why we can not get the five shabads to enjoy without being initiated, one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace for every single atom in his creation, then why one can not get the five melodies to enrich the soul further, without being initated by a living master??
God is living within us, then that makes us living with GOD!! so whats the BIG deal with the five Holy Names.
Can some one please tell me these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabads?
i would be most Gratefull to you Brain tao if could let me know these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabda,as you have already been initiated.

Thank you all.

[tAo]

Sam,

Sam wrote:

"what are the five sounds called ie shabads?"

-- You will have to get initiation for that.

"why do you need a living master"

-- You don't.

"and why at initiation, if god is within you and the soul is from the creator we are one with him alredy, so we are one with god."

-- Why what? What's the question?

"why we can not get the five shabads to enjoy without being initiated"

-- Enjoy? Enjoy what? ...a mantra? Don't bother. Just enjoy your life.

"one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace for every single atom in his creation, then why one can not get the five melodies to enrich the soul further"

-- If you really have as you say "unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace for every single atom in his creation", then you definitely do not need any such "five melofies" mantra.

"God is living within us, then that makes us living with GOD!! so whats the BIG deal with the five Holy Names."

-- There is no "BIG deal". Don't worry about it.

"Can some one please tell me these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabads?"

-- As I told you in an other post, someone may ber willing to tell you, but it will do you no good whatsoever. Its not going to get you anywhere. You don't need any mantra.

"i would be most Gratefull to you Brain tao if could let me know these five names, melodies or sounds called ie shabda,as you have already been initiated."

-- I am tAo, I am not Brian. Brian is the blog owner. Two different people. I am not going to tell you the fibe names or any other mantra because you don't need any mantra/simran, and none of it will do you any good and will only simply perpetuate your suppositions and illusions. If you want the names, then bgo get initated. Better yet, find out who YOU are - who is it that wants to acquire some particular "five names" mantra, and why?

[Sam]

Thanks fellows for your feed back.

First of all i do not wish to CHEAT myself or anyone in that matter, and one has pure intentions and unconditinal love for all beings at every level, with good heart and peace as a base to enrich the soul further, without being initated by a living master??

What if i don't want to be initiated by RS guru??? or follow the RSSB sect.

I didn't even think of getting something for nothing, i just wanted to know what the five names were, but now as you say that it is a MANTRA has POWERS, I do not wish disrespect anyone on any level.

Tao, did you find and then go the proper way or you learnt the truth some other way??? i think if i apply to be initiated just for the sake of the five names and then leave the sect, that i think would be wrong and cheating the whole system !!!
I would rather keep on researching till i find the answer,any other way without being attached to anyone or sect or hurting anyone feelings.

I KNOW WHO I and WHERE I AM GOING, thats not what i am after.
I would like to understand what they are and why the hush hush fuss about knowing them, as a man of science and free sprited soul i was just asking what they were, thats all.

LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL SOULS

[Tucson]

Sam, you wrote: "I would like to understand what they are and why the hush hush fuss about knowing them, as a man of science and free sprited soul i was just asking what they were, thats all."

--In certain traditions if names are given to you at initiation they become special as part of the ceremony signifying the start of the process of returning to God. If they are kept to yourself, internalized so to speak, they have power as a focal point for your meditation. To tell everyone what they are dissipates that power and specialness, not only for you but also to a certain extent for other initiates as well.

Esoterically, the names are in the Sanscrit language which is said to have certain intonations that have an affinity with the vibration of chakras and higher levels of consciousness, but the RS names are not unique in this regard. There are many chants and words believed to have such qualities.

In other words, these RS names may not have anything special about them for YOU personally. You could just as easily use another set of words or mantra that may come to you via a teacher or your own intuition and discovery.

In the 1972 movie "Jeremiah Johnson" Johnson is about to kill an enemy indian. The indian begins to chant/sing what appears to be some sort of power song. Johnson backs off and decides to leave him alone. This may have been some sort of traditional tribal chant or it may have come to the indian via a process such as a vision quest. Anyway, the indian believed it had power for him and that belief saved him.

My advice would be to not concern yourself with these RS names unless you wish to devote yourself to that spiritual path and get initiated. They have no special value otherwise, in my opinion.

[tAo]

Sam,

Tucson is quite right, don't "concern yourself with these RS names unless you wish to devote yourself to that spiritual path and get initiated. They have no special value otherwise".

Sam, also you wrote:

"I KNOW WHO I and WHERE I AM GOING, thats not what i am after."

-- Really? Then please by all means do tell us "WHO" are you, "WHO" do you "KNOW" yourself to be, and where are you "GOING"?

I for one would be interested in hearing what you have to say about who you think you are, or rather who you "know" yourself to be... and also where you know you are "going".

And I think others may also be quite interested as well in hearing whatever you have to share about what you know about yourself. Thats much more what this forum is really all about.

[Dan]

One thing we must understand is that holy scripts have asked us to live a simple life but in todays world living this simple life is difficult to live, as we have bills to pay, mortgages, work for a living and a life to live and those who do live it, do live it simple and thats good for them.

My moto in life is to live it to the full but knowing there are limits, that is when good becomes bad and knowing your boundaries. Aim is to understand the result of an action before you are committing to it. For those who may have watched mahabharat (ancient story going back during india's early years), it is pretty clear, it mentioned in there that the future is the result of the past and present and only you have the key to change that and never commit yourself to a promise or a pledge you cannot keep or leads to your desctruction. if you commit to an action then you must accept responsibility for its result to come: bad or good and be intelligent to know its likely outcome. In that, one person commits to an action and the bad results of it just keep rolling on and on until it results to a war where some people have purposely contributed to that. there is a spiritual/religous element to it i.e. Hinduism but if you just throw that out of the window and look at the characters, their behaviour then you realize that the world is already behaving this and what you can do to eliminate those behaviours in you. To be honest, we are all not perfect in every angle and if we were then world would be a better place to live but what you can do is learn from other poeple's mistakes and ensure you don't do that. I have seen some poeple give themselves such a huge career boost and inspiration that they have got to places in their career that you only wish you were there but if only they could do the same spiritually to better themselves but ultimatley you have to be happy with what you have materially but treasure those bonds you have with people. materially we all wish we win the lottery but we can never be satisfied, even some muslims have reportedly won the lottery when they shouldn;t have :s

Not being funny but soaps like Eastenders are good examples to learn from. at times not only does it put you at the edge of your seat but there are examples in it from which i can learn and you can begin to understand the root causes of some of the people's problem.

we belong to religions we are born in and we must accept that but changing religions or following a path will not achieve anything until you know yourself and ultimately understand what it is you are following - knowledge or person??? My friend had this christian mate and he decided he wanted to be a sikh and follow sikhism as a religion. he grew a beard and hair and decided to wear a turban. few years down the line he decided to convert to islam, to be honest what has he achieved...? - nothing. I was once approached by these muslim students at school and uni when i was 13 and 21 and even they tried to bolster how good islam is and what it can do for me. i thought
1. you stink of bebo.
2. other than being part of a large closed off uk community that teach you tricks and trade for committing benefit fraud in complete broad daylight, what else is it good for. i see my religion as not something to be proud of as that brings ego into you but to use it as a compass to guide you in the right direction but ultimately its you in the driving seat who has to do the work not someone else. inspiring to saints such as Guru Nanak, Lord jesus Christ and moses, etc is wrong, as they are not you and you are not them. they did what they had to do in their time of their life but you have to take steps in your life i.e. what you will do now and what you will do tomorrow.

Written knowledge is only useful if you correctly understand it otherwise it has no feelings and senses nothing and can lay there for decades or centuries to come. My dad once described the black stone that Hindus worship called the shiv'lin. he said you can sit in front of it shout, giggle, cry, hit it, kick it, spill milk over it, take chunks out of it and it will feel nothing at all and thats god and i use this approach to describe knowledge.

if you commit to an action and it goes wrong then don't expect god to to bail you out as it was you who did it and you must accept its result.

Apologies if I have unintentionally offended anyone from what i have written but truth is the truth and i just thought i give my pennies worth. My beliefs are not centred around any sect, cult, religion, path or even RS but i respect poeple and follow what is common sense

Good day to you all.
Dan

[Sam]

May Peace be upon all Souls!!!

To Tao and Other who want to know who i am and where i am going.

I am a vibrant SOUL, filled with unconditional love and a joyfull happy free sprit.
At present i am traveling in a HUMAN body enjoying every second of my journey on this planet and passing through this universal plane in time.
I am on my way to see, feel and experince and eventually be ONE with the universal energy, which i know as being COHESION, which keeps every soul and thing in link with one another.
That's who i am and that's where i am going.!

Love, peace and happiness to all.

[Tucson]

Sam, you said:

"I am a vibrant SOUL"

--Where is this "I" and this "soul"? What is its form, boundary and dimension? Where is it in this human body? At what point do you begin and end?

You said: "I am on my way to see, feel and experince and eventually be ONE with the universal energy, which i know as being COHESION, which keeps every soul and thing in link with one another."

--Wouldn't this universal energy be fully present where you are right now? Why is it necessary to go 'to' it like it is located in some other place?

Think of this: Rather than being some force binding things in a cohesive way, perhaps this universal energy is functioning as those things. Maybe you are it looking for itself as some sort of thing rather than just being it as itself. Could that be it? Maybe your being is its functioning. Rather than 'you<>it', try '>yit<'.

Clarification to readers, as if any would be interested...I read what people say here and respond in a way that may appear that I am telling them what their truth should be. Rather, it is I using their truth to clarify my truth to myself because as what I eternally am, no 'thing' at all, I can't know it. My responses are a reflection to myself elicited by what others write. If others benefit, great.

[the elephant]

Tucson wrote:
"Clarification to readers, as if any would be interested...I read what people say here and respond in a way that may appear that I am telling them what their truth should be. Rather, it is I using their truth to clarify my truth to myself because as what I eternally am, no 'thing' at all, I can't know it. My responses are a reflection to myself elicited by what others write. If others benefit, great."

Give me a break :) You may believe -- self-deceive -- yourself (sic) but I don't think so. You have shown to be slighly smarter than that. The content of your previous post has been written by you over and over, either replying to William or other readers. It seems to have clarified absolute nothing - unless you are a very bad memory. It is only a gross rationalization that prevents anyone - if the reader buys it - from characterizing your posts as "preachy" or "know it all"; simply because - from third-person perspective -- they surely sound like it. But that is not a position you can really assume or debate ... It just sounds like a flaky excuse ... slightly below "my dog ate my homework". The former belongs to the spiritual world while the latter to the education one. That is only my opinion, as an interested reader, who does not give a damn about being wrong or right. It is simply a rational reaction - and I have stated these reasons - from reading it ...
who knows if they are right or not ...

As Chuck on NBC said last you week (cute TV series bwt), "the only thing I will end up doing is fooling myself ..."

[Tucson]

Elephant said: "It seems to have clarified absolute nothing - unless you are a very bad memory."

If you meant to say that I 'have' a very bad memory, that's true at times. If you really meant to say I 'am' a very bad memory, that's true as well, though not 'very' bad'.. just stubborn. This memory called me continues to lurk about, so I need frequent reminding.

"It just sounds like a flaky excuse ... slightly below "my dog ate my homework"."

Ha! Well, yeah, but probably someone has actually had their homework eaten by the dog. Sometimes the check really is in the mail.

Good response though. Thanks, and you are right, or not. Especially your last sentence. ;)

[sam]

FAO Tucson

Why don'you find out where this soul is , rather than being told, every person has a different idea and veiw of it, so i can't generally say where this is in the human body it may vary!!! but iy's important to know that one can feel it, as being one with the soul. there i s no end or beginning!! it just transforms it's energy levels. Thats the reason why one has to move to a higher energy level than one present on this planet.
As i said it's my knowing of the word COHESION it may appear to you different.
WHY should you Clarifiy to the readers,and say "as if anyone would be interested." Let each reader voice there own opion on this and give their own a feed back, thats what this blog is all about , not one persons i.e your-summary!!
As a happy joyful free sprit i feel there is still roon in me to welcome more warmth of love and higher levels of pure engery which are being radiant in other universal planes.
LOVE AND PEACE TO ALL

[ryerneni]

Hi All,
I'm new to this blog..got this page while i'm searching to know about RSSB.
I feel this RSSB is also just another sect/system/pattern/propaganda/belief.
Till now i couldn't find thier true
Objectives. If some body knows please post them.
Thanks

[Richard Fu'e Fu'e]

Talofa.Just got back from 21 days at RSSB-dera Punjab India.It was
a great retreat from the hurly- burly of the mundane life.
A recharging of the batteries.An awakenning of the mind to truly
focus on whats really important.Love.Prem as The Great Master Sawan Singh (RSSB) writes.in Chapt 3 ,Vol 2 Philosophy of The Masters.Such crystal clear simplicity, encapsulated in the Beatles timeless song "Love is all you need"
But if we analyse every self created ,man made problem that we all have,from our own mental sicknesses to our failures in our relationships,to the treatment of our family peers, enenies to the way we handle our environment-it is surely love that we lack-
And love that we all crave.That is why lovers of the lord no matter who they are are so vital-we 6 billion human beings are so capable of finding love,assisting love to grow within our hearts that it is the power of love - the word,nam nad,tao,shabd
kalma-is the convenient truth the audacious hope of NOW-to coin a phrase.Why deny messengers of god as Baba Ji said.
"It would be very arrogant of to say that,Sant Mat was the only way."
But if one ever gets a chance-you initiated ones of Huzur-dont delay the Institution at Beas belongs to every stasangi-and you are always welcome.

There is a 900 set hall building being built to take NRI and NRW
(Non Resident Indian and westerners respectively) for Q & A.
Simultaneous translators similar to UN will speak to the satsangi
in their mother tongue.

So many hostels being built for us to accomodate us-that love Huzur has for us is being carried on by Baba Ji-cool eh ?
So don't delay.Leave all the intellectual gymnastics at home and come to Beas for satsang,meditation,Q & A,darshan w Baba JI
free food,meals,food,meals sewa ,sewa sewa-seadars looking after you =reciprocal universal love,unconditional love by the guru-prasad,rickshaw rides for 50 Rs- around the dera,trips to the library,questions asked directly to Baba Ji=-a free hospital
at dera RSSB and another free hospital at 350 bed Maharaj Sawan Singh Charitable Hospital 5 km down the road.
So 21 days fr OctNov Nov Dec Jan-Feb- -MarApril-itys all on.
One thing for sure-satsang is the key meditation the answer to lifes probs.No time for intellectual noncing-tis time for spiritual awakenning-via love for satguru-meditation-pleasing the master.Why make war on the internet when we can go inside the tisra til follow instructions at initiation-so what if no sound no light-just sit there and KNOW He is there/Be still and know that I am God.
When in fact we all are.We are all sons and daughters of Sat purush-we are going home either running w the bull dozer or being dragged.The facts are life is short and we will die one day.
All debts owing to this world must be paid for.As well as the access to spiritual worlds-only meditation on Nam can loosen the shackles of mind maya/Know it to be true.We are all imperfect and need to perfect our lives=LOVE simple truth.
Radha Soami ji-Richard

[tAo]

Richard writes:

"Just got back from 21 days at RSSB-dera .... An awakenning of the mind to truly
focus on whats really important."

-- There is no such "mind". Mind is a Myth. And "whats really important"?... Nothing. Because whatever you may think is "important" is all only relative.

"Love.Prem as The Great Master Sawan Singh (RSSB) writes....encapsulated in the Beatles timeless song 'Love is all you need'"

-- Bullshit. "Love" is nothing but sentimentality. The body only needs food & water & shelter, not "love". Love is attachment and delusion.

"every self created ,man made problem that we all have,from our own mental sicknesses"

-- You mean YOUR mental sicknesses.

"it is surely love that we lack-
And love that we all crave."

-- Speak only for yourself. I don't crave love. Love is useless sentimentality

"That is why lovers of the lord no matter who they are are so vital"

-- Bullshit. There is no such "lord", and your so-called "lovers" are nothing but weak and deluded. You are just another peddler of religious myth and pseudo-mystical crap.

"it is the power of love - the word,nam nad,tao,shabd
kalma-is the convenient truth"

-- Thats just more pseudo-spiritual bullshit.

"Why deny messengers of god as Baba Ji said."

-- There are no "messengers of god". You and your "Baba Ji" are both full of the crap of religious myth.

"It would be very arrogant of to say that,Sant Mat was the only way."

-- But that's exactly what these sick lying cult bastards imply.

"But if one ever gets a chance ... dont delay the Institution at Beas belongs to every stasangi-and you are always welcome."

-- Bullshit. That's another outright LIE. RSSB Beas is NOT open and "always welcome". Only select Indians and a few others are allowed to live there. The majority are NOT "welcome" to live there at all. So don't try to pretend otherwise.

"to accomodate us-that love Huzur has for us is being carried on by Baba Ji-cool eh ?"

-- Not "cool" at all. Your "Babaji is a complete and total fraud. He is nothing but a phony cult guru who sucks off the energy of foollish gullible idiots like you.

"So don't delay....come to Beas for satsang,meditation,Q & A,darshan w Baba JI free food,meals,food,meals sewa,sewa sewa-seadars looking after you reciprocal universal love,unconditional love by the guru-prasad,rickshaw rides"

-- How nauseating. The Dera as it is currently, is a rotten phony piece of crap. I would not go to that place even if you paid me. And your stupid fraudulent RS guru and all his ministers should all be sent packing, and the Dera property should be turned over and given to house the poor and the homeless.

"One thing for sure-satsang is the key meditation the answer to lifes probs."

-- Absolute bullshit. Thats a lie. You don't know what the hell you are taking about. You are just another parrot of RS dogma. RS "satsang" is no "key" to anything except for brainwashing the ignorant and the gullible. And "meditation" is NOT "the answer" to anything. Your so-called "answers" are actually the cause of problems.

"No time for intellectual noncing-tis time for spiritual awakenning-via love for satguru-meditation-pleasing the master."

-- Now you are really showing what an pathetic idiot you really are. Go back to where you belong - kissing your phony masters ass.

"Why make war on the internet when we can go inside the tisra til"

-- You are the one making "war". Go preach your stupid cult garbage somehwhere else.

"follow instructions ... so what if no sound no light-just sit there and KNOW He is there/Be still and know that I am God."

-- You are full of pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Your so-called "instructions" are crap. You are the one who is sitting there like an idiot. And your "God" is a myth and a lie. You are nothing but a peddler of lies and bullshit.

"We are all sons and daughters of Sat purush-we are going home either running w the bull dozer or being dragged."

-- More authoritarian bullcrap. Your "Sat purush" is an complete illusion, a fantasy that you have because you are too weak and immature to be a man and stand on your own. And again, don't speak for others you stupid inane jerk. I am the son of my father, but his name was definitely not "Sat purush". So take your RS religious crap and shove it.

"All debts owing to this world must be paid for."

-- Then go pay your supposed debts. And take your dogma with you.

"the access to spiritual worlds-only meditation on Nam can loosen the shackles of mind maya/Know it to be true."

-- You don't know anything "to be true". You are full of RS dogma and "Nam" bullshit.

"We are all imperfect and need to perfect our lives"

-- No, you need to speak only for yourself... YOU and YOUR life is "imperfect". Actually there is no "imperfect", nor is there any such thing as "perfect". Due to your ignorance, you have made a false dichotomy.

"Radha Soami ji"

-- To HELL with Radha Soami. Radha Soami is a bunch of religious myth, illusion, and lies. And it is evil because it misleads and traps and manipulates naive gullible people into a false spiritual doctrine and dogma, and into fraudulent guru worshp. The Radha Soami cult is bad news, and people like you are unfortunate ignorant suckers.

Btw, the smartest, best, and wisest thing you could do, is to immediately RUN AWAY - as FAR AWAY as possible from the Radha Soami cult and all the rest of the poor stupid and unfortunate RS satsangi bastards who are still trapped in its mind-control, web. And also quit preaching and advertising and advocating the RS garbage in forums like this.

And go get yourself a Real Life.

[tAo]

Richard writes:

"Just got back from 21 days at RSSB-dera .... An awakenning of the mind to truly
focus on whats really important."

-- There is no such "mind". Mind is a Myth. And "whats really important"?... Nothing. Because whatever you may think is "important" is all only relative.

"Love.Prem as The Great Master Sawan Singh (RSSB) writes....encapsulated in the Beatles timeless song 'Love is all you need'"

-- Bullshit. "Love" is nothing but sentimentality. The body only needs food & water & shelter, not "love". Love is attachment and delusion.

"every self created ,man made problem that we all have,from our own mental sicknesses"

-- You mean YOUR mental sicknesses.

"it is surely love that we lack-
And love that we all crave."

-- Speak only for yourself. I don't crave love. Love is useless sentimentality

"That is why lovers of the lord no matter who they are are so vital"

-- Bullshit. There is no such "lord", and your so-called "lovers" are nothing but weak and deluded. You are just another peddler of religious myth and pseudo-mystical crap.

"it is the power of love - the word,nam nad,tao,shabd
kalma-is the convenient truth"

-- Thats just more pseudo-spiritual bullshit.

"Why deny messengers of god as Baba Ji said."

-- There are no "messengers of god". You and your "Baba Ji" are both full of the crap of religious myth.

"It would be very arrogant of to say that,Sant Mat was the only way."

-- But that's exactly what these sick lying cult bastards imply.

"But if one ever gets a chance ... dont delay the Institution at Beas belongs to every stasangi-and you are always welcome."

-- Bullshit. That's another outright LIE. RSSB Beas is NOT open and "always welcome". Only select Indians and a few others are allowed to live there. The majority are NOT "welcome" to live there at all. So don't try to pretend otherwise.

"to accomodate us-that love Huzur has for us is being carried on by Baba Ji-cool eh ?"

-- Not "cool" at all. Your "Babaji is a complete and total fraud. He is nothing but a phony cult guru who sucks off the energy of foollish gullible idiots like you.

"So don't delay....come to Beas for satsang,meditation,Q & A,darshan w Baba JI free food,meals,food,meals sewa,sewa sewa-seadars looking after you reciprocal universal love,unconditional love by the guru-prasad,rickshaw rides"

-- How nauseating. The Dera as it is currently, is a rotten phony piece of crap. I would not go to that place even if you paid me. And your stupid fraudulent RS guru and all his ministers should all be sent packing, and the Dera property should be turned over and given to house the poor and the homeless.

"One thing for sure-satsang is the key meditation the answer to lifes probs."

-- Absolute bullshit. Thats a lie. You don't know what the hell you are taking about. You are just another parrot of RS dogma. RS "satsang" is no "key" to anything except for brainwashing the ignorant and the gullible. And "meditation" is NOT "the answer" to anything. Your so-called "answers" are actually the cause of problems.

"No time for intellectual noncing-tis time for spiritual awakenning-via love for satguru-meditation-pleasing the master."

-- Now you are really showing what an pathetic idiot you really are. Go back to where you belong - kissing your phony masters ass.

"Why make war on the internet when we can go inside the tisra til"

-- You are the one making "war". Go preach your stupid cult garbage somehwhere else.

"follow instructions ... so what if no sound no light-just sit there and KNOW He is there/Be still and know that I am God."

-- You are full of pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo. Your so-called "instructions" are crap. You are the one who is sitting there like an idiot. And your "God" is a myth and a lie. You are nothing but a peddler of lies and bullshit.

"We are all sons and daughters of Sat purush-we are going home either running w the bull dozer or being dragged."

-- More authoritarian bullcrap. Your "Sat purush" is an complete illusion, a fantasy that you have because you are too weak and immature to be a man and stand on your own. And again, don't speak for others you stupid inane jerk. I am the son of my father, but his name was definitely not "Sat purush". So take your RS religious crap and shove it.

"All debts owing to this world must be paid for."

-- Then go pay your supposed debts. And take your dogma with you.

"the access to spiritual worlds-only meditation on Nam can loosen the shackles of mind maya/Know it to be true."

-- You don't know anything "to be true". You are full of RS dogma and "Nam" bullshit.

"We are all imperfect and need to perfect our lives"

-- No, you need to speak only for yourself... YOU and YOUR life is "imperfect". Actually there is no "imperfect", nor is there any such thing as "perfect". Due to your ignorance, you have made a false dichotomy.

"Radha Soami ji"

-- To HELL with Radha Soami. Radha Soami is a bunch of religious myth, illusion, and lies. And it is evil because it misleads and traps and manipulates naive gullible people into a false spiritual doctrine and dogma, and into fraudulent guru worshp. The Radha Soami cult is bad news, and people like you are unfortunate ignorant suckers.

Btw, the smartest, best, and wisest thing you could do, is to immediately RUN AWAY - as FAR AWAY as possible from the Radha Soami cult and all the rest of the poor stupid and unfortunate RS satsangi bastards who are still trapped in its mind-control, web. And also quit preaching and advertising and advocating the RS garbage in forums like this.

And go get yourself a Real Life.

[tAo]

Richard is just another RS goon who is full of rotten rubbish RS dogma and fraudlent cult-guru worship. RS and its phony master is all built on lies and deception.

[Dr. Peeyush]

I think the writer has not understood the meaning of meditation and secrifices.Meditation helps you to understand your inner.It is believed that almighty is within you only you have to see him throug your inner sight.Who says that a vegetarian would find God earlier than a nonvegitarian.It is assumed that " Manas is affected by food" therefore you are advised to be avoid such kind of food which may create feeling of anger.Meditation mean wining self.this can be achieved only by developing control on your six senses that is Kama, Krodha,Lobha.Moah(ME) and Ego. That what i believe RS teaches us.

[tAo]

Well I think that this commenter Dr. Peeyush is nothing more than another foolish RS sycophant - a pee-brain who says quote "that what i believe RS teaches us" - and thus has obviously not understood anything at all, especially including not understanding meditation.

[seema]

Radha Soami ji
Is it easy to love god? I mean we hav not seen god.Is not it that only he can make us falling in love with himself.It depends only god(satguru).