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November 23, 2004


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"We have a lot to share". As someone famous once said, "Well, A yes, and a NO. " (She had been asked if she was a virgin. )

THe big problem that I and others see with many atheist religions is that they get together, talk, and then. . . . . . nothing. OK. those that talked get the benefit of the talk. But what about everyone else. Was nothing decided upon?? Was there no progress in thought?

Hey, this is the internet age. How about sharing with others???

Here is one area where the Order is different from other groups. We believe that there is much we can learn together and if we can organize that information and the reasons why we came to that conclusion, others do not have to go thru the whole learning curve, over, and over, and over.

Just a thought.

Elder Norm



While Jesus was in Jerusalem, a high-ranking member of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, who was himself “a ruler of the Jews” and “a master of Israel,” came to Jesus to inquire about his teachings. He recognized that Jesus was from God and wanted to hear what Jesus had to say. But Nicodemus, though not hostile to Jesus as most of the Pharisees were, did not want to make a public show of going to Jesus, so he came to Jesus “by night” and asked him questions.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? (John 3:4)
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. (John 3:5)
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (John 3:5)

Here Jesus explains to Nicodemus that he must be “born again” if he wants to see the kingdom of God. Naturally to one who has had no spiritual experience, to be born again seems impossible. Nicodemus, though a “master” of Israel, is a man of formal religion and reacts as any worldy person would when he asks, How can this be? One cannot return to the womb and be reborn. Jesus says to Nicodemus that he is confusing physical rebirth with the spiritual rebirth that Jesus is talking about. Jesus then expresses the same concept in simpler language when he says, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” He points out that to be born of the Spirit is the new birth he speaks of; and that being born of water means born of living water, the Nectar within; so being born of the Spirit means being born of the Sound, the Word, the Holy Ghost. So the whole discussion refers to the spiritual initiation, when one is put on the path leading back to God. That, in a nutshell, is being born again.
After being born in this world we begin to grow and develop physically; and after receiving initiation, or baptism, the spiritual birth, we grow and develop spiritually.
What Jesus tells Nicodemus is consistent with what all Mystics teach: that within every one of us there is Sound and Light, which can be experienced within at the eye center. As pointed out earlier, the soul and mind have their seat, or headquarters, at the center between the two eyes, the place where all our attention is to be concentrated in order to see that Light and hear that Sound within.
When we compare the two phrases, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God” and “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” with the statement of John the Baptist when he answered the priests and Levites, “I baptize with water,” we see that he was doing exactly what Jesus later said was essential for entering God’s kingdom.
The soul has two faculties: that of seeing and that of hearing within. The Lord has kept the Sound and Light within every one of us, but as mentioned earlier, we cannot see this Light and hear this Sound within the temple of our body because of the veil of darkness between us and the Father. If we are attached to the flesh, we always take birth into the flesh again. But if we are attached to the Spirit within, then we take birth into the Spirit. When we are attached to the senses, we come back into the flesh; but attaching ourselves to the Spirit gives us birth in heaven. When we become the Spirit, the Word, only then do we get peace. That is taking a new spiritual birth.
When a Mystic initiates us into a new birth, he gives us the technique of withdrawing our soul current to the eye centre, where we can hear the Spirit, or Sound, and see that Light. It is by means of the Sound and the Light that we travel on the spiritual path back to the Father’s house. So the day of our initiation into the spiritual path is the beginning of the process of spiritual growth.

Then Jesus makes it still clearer:
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

He says: What do I mean by taking birth into the Spirit? Taking birth into the Spirit means that when you are able to withdraw your consciousness to the eye center and still your mind there, you hear a Sound within yourself, and in the beginning that Sound resembles the blowing of the wind. You will not be able to know from which direction it is coming – whether it is coming from the right, whether it is coming from the left, whether it is coming from above, whether it is coming from beneath. When you are hearing that Sound and seeing that Light, then you have taken birth into the Spirit. That is taking a new spiritual birth.
To be born of the Spirit, says Jesus, is to be in touch with the Word, the Sound Current, which is within every one of us. But we cannot contact the Sound unless we are able to withdraw our consciousness to the eye center and hold our mind motionless there. In the beginning the Sound – that is, the sound of the Spirit – resembles the blowing or rushing of the wind. Though we hear it, we do not know from which direction it is coming, whether from above or below, from the left or the right. When we attach ourself to the Sound, it takes us to its source, the Lord himself. To take a new birth is to be in touch with that Shabd, or Word. This is what is meant by “so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

(Light on Saint John: Chapter 3)


I, for one, am not impressed. You have just given a lovely satsang that would be well received by gullible, mesmerized Radha Soami cult followers and naive seekers with little spiritual sophistication, insight, or even common sense. However, in this forum, many of us (some, former satsangis) have heard this tired dogma repeatedly (in some cases, for decades) and have rejected it as warped, distorted, delusional, unsubstantiated, parroted rhetoric. It would require effort on your part, but if you were to access the Radha Soami Satsang Beas archives in the left column and study them, you woud see this subject has been thoroughly addressed from all angles ad nauseum.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto to Tucson Bob's comment.


Are you going to remain an RS parrot stuck inside a cage of religious dogma and fake mysticism all of your life, or will you soar beyond to the unstructerd heights of true mysticism like a wild eagle?

Have you no mind, no spirit of your own, so to speak? Forget about all the canned RS rhetoric and abstract spiritual cosmology and theology. Burn those books. They are your stumbling blocks.

Just start fresh with the simple and the immediate. Start with your own immediate existence and awareness in this very moment, and every moment. Just BE who you really are, not some artificially contrived idea of spirituality that you have been lured into and that has been foisted upon you by the fabricated RS guru-cultism, and which unfortunately you have blindly bought into.

RS has nothing to offer you. You already have everything that you need within your self. Stop being a naive gullible follower, a groveling child in search of a spiritual parent/guru.

Stand on your own. No one has anything more than you do. Liberate yourself from this trap of spiritual guru cultism, this false mystic flavored religion. Are you merely a parrot, or will you be an eagle?

RS theology is dead. Find your own truth. Not someone elses truth, but YOUR OWN TRUTH.... whatever that may be. Therein lies peace, happiness, and freedom.

Tao, your comment to Anil is well put. Don Pedro Nagual...are you out there? Be free and fly!

Viva largo a nagual Don Juan Matus!!!

Viva largo a nagual Dr Carlos Casteneda!!!


About Castaneda, in case you haven't seen it...


I find that this blog has a bunch of jokers who are all the time wishing to put forth their view point. And pounce upon others like a herd of mad dogs who wish to get hold of their share of bait. If this is to go, this blog should have a limited entry or else the comments of others may be sifted by the administrator before they are posted.

Let us have a little bit more of broad mindedness. Is it necessary that every comment should be replied with a terse and curse manner.

Mine is not a satsang. It is a feeling and I am prepared to accept a rebuff from any one and everyone.


"Let us have a little bit more of broad mindedness"... you say?

Coming from you, that's really rather funny.

Heh heh heh...

...and now listen up all you Churchless Blogsters, the following song goes out from Doctor Tao to Rakesh Bhasin:

Feelin' Alright [from Joe Cocker's early album "Mad Dogs and Englishmen"]

" Seems I got to have a change of scene
Cause every night I have the strangest dreams
Imprisoned by the way it used to be
Left here on my own or so it seems
I got to leave before I start to scream
But someone's locked the door and took the key

Feelin' alright
Not feelin' too good myself
Feelin' alright
Not feelin' too good myself

Boy you sure took me for one big ride
Even now I sit and wonder why
And when I think of you I start to cry
Got to stop belivin' in all your lies
Cause I got to much to do before I die

Before someone comes along and takes my place
With a different name and yes a different face.

Feelin' alright
Not feelin' too good myself
Feelin' alright
Not feelin' too good myself "

Read! Does it make a sense................?

(This poem is from 'The Crescent Moon' by Tagore)

If I were only a little puppy, not your baby, mother dear,
would you say "No" to me if I tried to eat from your dish?

Would you drive me off, saying to me,
"Go away, you naughty little puppy"?

Then go, mother, go! I will never come to you when you call me,
and l=never let you feed me any more.

If I were only a little green parrot, and not your baby,
mother dear, would you keep me chained lest I should fly away?

Would you shake your finger at me and say,
"What an ungrateful wrertch of a bird!
It is gnawing at its chain day and night"?

Then go, mother, go! I will run away into the woods;
I will never let you take me in your arms again.


I'm a chimp, with a cell phone and an Internet connection. I often feel that my own personal alienation from Life, from the world, is due to my being born here, now. If I was a farmer, living a more simple life, I suppose my primal fear of death would be lessened. My life would be purposeful and tied to nature. Surrounded by glass, steel and concrete filing insurance claims in an office....doesn't fit the bill.

We're here for a brief time and as T.S. Eliot said, "Birth, copulation and death, that's all the facts, when it comes to the brass tacks." Simple. Though we complicate it.

My thoughts on a rainy morning here in Albuquerque, NM.

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