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March 05, 2017

Comments

Does this include those who could not find it in their heart to vote for Ciinton? In 2016, well before the election, I posted this in response to someone. Several months have passed, and my judgement still holds. I wonder how the person to whom this was directed would answer your challenge:

"Trump is a fascist and Clinton is not. Trump does not respect those who disagree with him. Fascism is not a word I use lightly. While Clinton will not issue in a new age, she is the foundation upon which we can strive to have one built. Trump will, on the other hand, issue forth a new, and very dark, age.

"I have studied government; I have studied history, and I have studied the the absence of any underlying ethics or moral values to fascism and I see far more congruity between fascism and Trump than I do any dissimilarity.

"Thus I feel as justified in my anger at the prospects of his election, as do many of you toward Ms Clinton. Trump’s sins are mortal; Clinton’s are venal in comparison.

"Clinton is not perfect, but the perfect horror of a Trump victory is sufficient for me to support her in every way that I can. Morally the sins of omission are as deadly as the sins of commission."

I didn't vote for him but from what I can tell from rightie friends and such sites, those who did are quite pleased with him. The ones outraged didn't vote for him. I don't think polls mean much except for the money the pollsters get.

I would like to see the proof that "he won with the aid of Russian meddling in the 2016 election."

Apparently the Russians were in charge of Hillary's campaign strategy to ignore the concerns of rust belt voters and lose the swing states that went for Obama in previous elections. Putin ordered Hillary to devote zero dollars to these states and to hold no events and not organize any canvassing there. This is the only way that Russians can be to blame for her loss. Otherwise this is all on Hillary.

Trump is an idiot, but you don't need to make up equally insane conspiracy theories and peddle partisan rumors in order to make him look dumb, he can do that all himself.

Accept that your side lost. LEARN FROM IT- Don't make chickensht excuses! Learn from your mistakes and win the next one. Because if you don't we will be stuck with Trump for 4 more years.

salemander, it is a fact that there was Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election with the intent of hurting Clinton and helping Trump. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

That's not what i asked.

You said "he won with the aid of Russian meddling" so I would like to know how this meddling helped him win. If you are just saying "He won" and "Russia meddled" and then leave it at "connect the dots" that is confusing correlation with causation.

Your wikipedia link says US intelligence agencies "concluded" and "assessed" that Russia accessed the very real and true emails that the DNC actually wrote, but nothing about how that caused Trump to win.

If I was a teacher I would give you and "F" for using wikipedia as a source. Look! Here is proof teh earth is flat : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_societies

That might have been true, Brian, right up until we got the last Wikileaks revelations from the CIA who knows how to fake a hacker's site-- from any of the nations out there like Russia. Also the idea that what was put out was a factor ignores issues that were bigger. A lot, like us, figured her personality was what those emails revealed and we voted for her anyway as the lesser of evils. Also remember Wikipedia is edited and created by whoever goes in there. The CIA leaks are a big deal and I hope all Americans, on either side of the divide pay attention to what it's been up to.

salemander, there are plenty of other sources of information about Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. For example, you can read this Newsweek piece:

http://www.newsweek.com/quora-question-how-was-russia-involved-election-539180

It is certain that the Russians wanted to help Trump and hurt Clinton. They disseminated controversial hacked emails and engaged in social media campaigns that favored Trump. The only question is how many voters were influenced by the Russian actions, so I stand by what I said.

Here's an excerpt from the link above:
-------------------
"What the CIA, and 17 other U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded, is that there were several violations of the computer systems used by the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign. These violations allowed the hackers to access private emails and internal campaign documents and memos. These were selectively leaked to Wikileaks, who then leaked them to the U.S. media, in an attempt to generate a constant stream of negative news coverage relating to Hillary Clinton and her campaign.

The CIA has tied these events to Russia because they were carried out by hacker groups and collectives previously known to U.S. intelligence as fronts set up by Russian intelligence services to carry out cyberattacks while maintaining a layer of deniability between them and the Russian government, and the software used in these hacking efforts matches software previously identified by the CIA as having been developed by Russian intelligence services for launching cyber attacks like this.

In addition, the voter registration databases of two states (Arizona and North Carolina) were hacked in September. This was reported by those states to the FBI before the election.

Finally, there is evidence (according to the CIA in published reports) that some of these Russian cyber units were posing as pro-Trump users on many social media websites, posting comments that were favorable to Trump or hostile to Clinton, and helping spread false news stories that benefited Trump and/or were harmful to Clinton.

This was basically a massive propaganda campaign to influence public opinion in favor of Trump and against Clinton."

Brian, do you read anything but leftie sources? Of course, that requires going beyond mainstream media but you parrot back their talking points. There is NO proof Russia influenced the election. Most Americans had known about Hillary's personality flaws. There were secret recordings leaked like her saying she'd love to have totally open borders to one private group but she managed to keep her hedge fund speeches private and nobody got her 30,000+ deleted emails at least not released. Her deleting them rather than allowing the government to look at them was one negative among others. The thing is who trusted her. She was for TPP before she was against it to beat Bernie. She was for the XL before she backed off to beat Bernie.

Then it was revealed through the hacker that CNN gave her some questions for a debate with Bernie. Think about what that means for how honest she is-- she didn't refuse them and took the advantage. Did lefties care? not at all. They wanted her to beat Bernie and didn't care how the DNC conspired to get her the nomination-- whether he should have had an equal shot at it or not.

The primary revealed a lot of her negatives-- and frankly most dems,including us, voted for her anyway as the lesser of evils. As long as Dems refuse to face facts-- that they lost on issues, they will continue to lose. Did the Russians cause the states to go heavily Republican or did they cause the Senate to be won for control of Congress? Get real and deal with the issues that caused the loss or see 60 senators from the right next election and Trump reelected in 2020.

Rain, you are refusing to recognize reality. The Newsweek link I shared above correctly says that the CIA and 17 other U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded that hackers backed by Russian intelligence organizations hacked into Democratic computers systems and disseminated information in an attempt to influence the 2016 presidential election. This is a fact.

Another fact is that Trump officials/surrogates had interactions with Russians during the campaign. This currently is being investigated by U.S. intelligence agencies and Congress. An independent counsel might even be appointed at some point. This is another fact.

Finally, the election was decided by about 40,000 votes in three states that gave Trump enough electoral votes to defeat Clinton, even though she easily won the popular vote by over 3 million votes. This also is a fact.

It is impossible to say how many votes were influenced by the Russian intervention into our election, which included fake social media postings by people operating in Russia. For sure, some votes. That's all I'm saying. The Russians aided Trump's election. This is a a fact, and I stand by it. Clinton correctly pointed out, over and over, that Trump would be a horrible president, and this is turning out to be the case.

Anyone who didn't vote for Clinton helped elect Trump. This is another fact. I'm proud that I stood up for Clinton. Everybody who didn't has to explain to themselves why they stood by in the 2016 election and didn't try to defeat Trump.

As I said, we voted for her but I did not trust her at all. You are going by mainstream media. Did you look at the CIA leaks where it's said that CIA has tools that can make any hack look like it came from Russia or China or whoever they want. You won't believe it though because you are a fundamentalist and you follow the rhetoric of your side.

I think areas like globalism had more to do with the election that a leftie who loves globalism will ever believe. Think about those who live where their jobs haven't had pay increases due to illegal entries into our workforce. The thing is most who are gung ho on letting in everybody who wants to enter are not impacted by that unregulated immigration. Seriously, left wingers want to open the borders and if someone can afford a bus or plane ticket, they can enter? So her view of immigration, which she also changed from years back when she condemned it, had to be hidden as the ones who would vote for her are naive or don't care about what it means to those who live on the borders or have low paying jobs.

We are wasting our time on this though and i have a book to finish but what you are saying is to me totally wrong. What got hacked was minor stuff on her and likely didn't defend a single vote. Yes, she won California by a 3 million vote margin, likewise likely a big one in New York too, but if you look at the rest of the country, I read he won the popular vote.

By the way, the states she lost, like Wisconsin, she thought was in the bag. Bill said she and her team ignored what he advised which is don't forget the working class. They did and they thought the elites, with fancy concerts, the hedge fund billionaires could get her the election. Those guys only get one vote each despite feeling superior.

As for Trump, the media savaged him during the campaign but it didn't impact his voters as they had lost faith in media like CNN or the NYTimes (who admitted their bias when it was over).

If Democrats don't get it that it's issues, there will be more states run by Republicans. Right now only 5 states are in the control of dems-- three out here. And you know what happened to the Senate. Go ahead and keep blaming someone else but elections are won by issues that resonate with the voters. Many who voted for Trump voted for Obama. They believed he would change things and make their lives better, instead they got Arab Spring and TPP, which Bernie said was a bad trade deal but another step toward globalization. I had little use for Hillary and though we had donated thousands to Obama, we donated nothing to her but we did vote for her knowing she'd do a lot we didn't trust. Why do you suppose she hid those speeches to the hedge fund guys.

So as to what Trump will do, a lot I won't like. But thinking he got this handed to him by Russians is only believed by the fundamental left, true believers in whatever the media feeds them.

It seems to me it's a waste of time re-hashing the election. If you watch Rasmussen polls they are respected by both sides and suggest that the President is just following through with voters' demands. Bitterness is one approach but really not very productive. Hope you can still find the good in life.

he doesn't look so stupid about sweeden now

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