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February 13, 2013

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No “bad guy” would enter a mall full of “good guys” unless he wanted to die. In case you hadn’t noticed, “bad guys” are attracted to known gun free zones.

Richard, what are you talking about? There have been armed guards at high schools where "bad guys" started shooting. Recently a "bad guy" shot people at a mall here in Oregon where at least one person with a concealed weapons permit was nearby.

Was the movie theatre where a mass shooter did his thing a "gun free zone"? I've never been to a movie theatre where guns were prohibited.
You should do more research and thinking on gun violence.

More guns equals more gun deaths. That's an undeniable fact. The United States has more guns and more deaths than any other industrialized country. By your flawed logic, we should have the fewest gun deaths, because so many people have guns.

But the opposite is true. Americans are much more likely to die from gun violence than people in Canada, Australia, Germany, Japan, or other countries are.

As I said, a mass shooter who enters an armed high school or other armed venue clearly wants to die, not blend in. Most are dead-enders who fear confrontation more than death.

This post confuses serial killer with mass shooter. Serial killers want to blend in; mass shooters seek infamy, death, or both. Perceived gun free zones are tailor made for mass shooters to take maximum toll before being confronted, the point at which they most often kill themselves. When no armed confrontation is present the body count is consistently into double digits.

Sandy Hook Elementary, Virginia Tech, Utoya Island Norway, Fort Hood, and Cinemark’s Century 16 Multiplex in Aurora all prohibited guns and combined for 152 dead and 215 wounded. The lone security officer at Columbine High was eating lunch in his car when the attack began, making it an unprotected gun free zone with 13 dead and 21 wounded. But the Oregon mall – the one example mentioned where a concealed carry permit holder defied the mall’s gun prohibition and confronted the mass shooter? That incident will forever be known as a mass shooting averted, with 2 dead and 1 wounded. http://www.clackamastowncenter.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf

In Columbine the security officer immediately went to the other side of the school and confronted Harris, who shot at the officer and then went into the school, where they continued their killing spree:

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/NARRATIVE.Time.Line.htm

To say "The lone security officer at Columbine High was eating lunch in his car when the attack began, making it an unprotected gun free zone with 13 dead and 21 wounded" is not the whole story, Bub.

nnra, thanks for pointing out the falsehood in a previous comment.

As your link accurately shows, an armed sheriff was on the scene within a few minutes, exchanged fire with the attackers, and was unable to stop them. So much for the value of "a good guy with a gun."

Columbine was not at all a gun free zone. A police officer with a gun was on campus at the time of the attack. Didn't help. Big campus; one guy with a gun. No match for two determined mass murderers.

Hi Blogger Brian,

I completely agree... Big campus; One guy with a gun. No match for two determined mass murderers. The question/concern I have is where will the gun control measures end? You have said in previous posts that "nobody is talking about banning all guns" only the assault rifles and high capacity magazines because they can do so much damage. They are the most efficient things ON THE MARKET for killing.

Well when they ban these what happens the next time some dude walks into a schools or theatre with a couple handguns or shotguns and kills 20 more folks? Are we then going to go after handguns and shotguns too? I mean at that point, those will be the most efficient means of murder on the market at the time.

Obviously, assault rifles kill more efficiently than handguns, and a bazooka does more damage than the assault rifles. Where do gun bans end for you and other gun control folks? All guns have the ability to do massive damage in a crowded area.

I completely agree that there is no match for two determined mass murderers. Whether they have a bazooka, assault rifle, handgun or ninja swords, crazy "determined mass murderers" are gonna do serious damage no matter what. I also agree with you on assault rifles. I mean do we really need them to protect our home and family? I personally feel safe with a lot less. But if our regulations are going to be in response to horrific mass murders and the weapons used to perpetrate those crimes, then we obviously need to be going after all guns, because if crazy murderers can't get their hands on an assault rifle they'll just buy the next best thing - Shotguns and handguns. Just seems kinda fake and squirrelly for everyone to say "nobody is trying to ban all guns" when we all know that's what they want and that's the only thing that is going to curb gun violence in their mind. Otherwise I don't understand the point. Children and innocent folks can still die.

Just wondering your thoughts. I assume from your posts of "guns kill people, people don't kill people" you like the idea of banning ALL guns. Maybe you can shed some light on what other gun control folks think. Why are they trying to only ban this or that? Just seems so fake and wussy. If they want to ban guns they should just say that. At least then we can know where everyone stands. Sorry for the ramble... I forgot to take my ADD meds today :) Taker easy!!!

“So much for the value of a good guy with a gun."

That statement is an example of how gun grabbers choose to overlook the lessons of Columbine. Too many guns in the hands of good guys wasn’t one of them.

This really isn’t that complicated. Why were the shooters forced inside the school after being fired upon? Because the security officer wasn’t shooting at them FROM the school. The security officer’s outside location made him completely ineffective. His absence inside and the lack of armed confrontation therein allowed for a double digit body count.

The sheriff’s timeline shows a slow five minute response time by the security officer after shooting first began. That’s only two minutes faster than the first deputies that arrived from offsite, and it allowed Harris to pin the officer down, then duck inside after they exchanged fire. The security officer might not have even gotten one shot off had Harris’ gun not jammed.

Columbine became THE model for the nation for how NOT to prepare for or respond to a mass shooting. Without the active shooter protocol developed since, without an officer posted inside, and without faculty access to even a single firearm, these shooters owned the interior of that school from start to finish. Their unhurried, directionless and random behavior as described in the sheriff’s timeline indicates that with law enforcement outside, the shooters treated the inside of the school as the GUN FREE ZONE that it was.

The Colorado Governor’s Review Commission concluded the same: “The greatest death toll occurred in the library after School Resource Officer Neil Gardner exchanged gunfire with Eric Harris, forcing the murderous pair into the school and the library where ten students were shot to death during an uninterrupted 46-minute assault on the DEFENSELESS students. …During that period, to the Commission’s knowledge, NO EFFORTS WERE MADE TO ENGAGE, CONTAIN, OR CAPTURE the perpetrators.” http://www.state.co.us/columbine/Columbine_20Report_WEB.pdf

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