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September 22, 2018

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I think the case of Snowdon and others is a good reason why anonymity should be respected.

This book is a woman's heartfelt testimony. It isn't gossip, but it isn't exactly verified either.

However her sincerity comes through.

The criteria for objective fact is verifiable and multiple independent sources. Sources that each of us can verify for ourselves. This book alone, even Brian's secret messaging to the author's friend does not provide that.

However, individual witness is important.

Something doesn't have to be objective fact yet in order to be true.

It could be the subjective experience of the author.

That anyone can accept.

And this can serve to encourage others to come forth with their own testimony as well.

At some point someone will take the risk to give their name, or else additional factual details that coroborate.

Church of the Churchless does already have one such source, and that is Jim's testimony, given here several times, of Baba Ji's shocking locker room sex reference in front of thousands.

It is consistent with what the author wrote.

So you have testimony with a witness who had provided his name.

And you have this anonymous author's more detailed and exhaustive testimony of a much larger series of similar harsh incidents.

It is all important. We have two independent sources, and one who has given his actual name.

One lesson I've learned from Brian. The information comes slowly, but the picture emerges, like pieces placed by anonymous strangers and new friends onto a jigsaw puzzle.

Our box had very few pieces. But folks are dropping by to add more, one by one.

And they are all fitting together, almost like a miracle.

Truth is remarkably constant. And to me, tragic. We have a king who became a thug.

I read your posts and I never recall a time when you've said someone's accusations were truth. Those who criticize you seem to want absolute verifiable truths and nothing else to ever be discussed. It's as if they think there's no process or path taken to discover truths.

About that Supreme Court fiasco, Im calling bs on it all. If she really lawyered up months ago I'm guessing this is all a setup. If her story is even true and not an exaggerated drama,then im thinking of cashing in too and ruining some lives out of spite since I can recall numerous times when women in high school flashed me, groped my crotch and otherwise performed actions which would be considered sexual assault by today's clown world standards but were called "being teenagers" just a decade or 2 ago.

I'm starting to think that the me too movement isn't about helping women at all. Its about famous corrupt psychopaths exploiting the cause of helping women to further their own social, financial and political goals. Never trust anything in Hollywood or politics to be as is.

Hi Jesse!
I believe this book.
And I also believe many of the MeToo folks.

There really is a lot of abuse out there and nice to see people standing up to it.

"There really is a lot of abuse out there and nice to see people standing up to it."

That's not what Hollywood and Washington D.C. do though. These are the most crooked people on earth.

It's worth investigating, sure, but I don't believe people on these things just because they say them. Just as I've had girls, and a guy I worked with in a record shop actually, "sexually assault" me by the current ever-shifting definition, so too have I known 2 women who made false rape allegations to avoid getting caught cheating. You can read hundreds of those cases, and many end in jail terms for innocent men. Sick stuff.

When every single day the media has a new massive outrage item, it kind of says something. "Sheena" is a totally different thing since she's not working with lawyers and following the same DC script. Comparing the two makes no sense to me.

Sheena's book:

Top critical review: Wouldn’t recommend to anyone. Exaggerated events compiled by a non script writer under a fake name filled with unjustified and made up narrative . A silly attempt as an authority on spirituality.
..........

The Truth About the MeToo Movement:

"Yes, statistically more women than men are sexually assaulted and harassed, but that does not mean that we can present the entire issue in terms of this dichotomy. Men are also harassed and assaulted, and these men deserve just as much anger and support as the women.

On a related note: women can be the harassers too. Sexual assault and harassment are about power and control, and while the overwhelming majority of the accused are men, we cannot overlook the fact that women can also be the perpetrators."

Jen, where did you find that review? It isn't on the Amazon U.S. site. Regardless, it sounds like a RSSB defender who made up some crap. How does someone else know the events were exaggerated or made up? They're totally believable, given what we know about Gurinder Singh's attitudes toward women and the negative atmosphere at the Dera these days.

Hi Brian:

https://www.amazon.in/Memoirs-Seeker-Sheena-ebook/product-reviews/B07FDBX8NP

"while the overwhelming majority of the accused are men, we cannot overlook the fact that women can also be the perpetrators."

I'd be willing to bet that a significant part of the discrepancy stems from the fact that it's culturally acceptable for women to grope men and very few men would risk the social humiliation of calling out a woman for such things. We'd be mocked by our friends, family and the media if we did. I know I would never, and never did, call the police on a woman for grabbing me in ways that would have put any man in jail. But, the opposite is also true, and many unhealthy women will call it "assault" to be looked at wrong, literally.

One of the most famous examples of the double standard of the sexes that has become popular online was the clip of a crowd of women on TV, The View maybe, happily laughing and mocking a man who'd had his penis cut off and ground up in a garbage disposal by his wife. If a man did something similar to a woman it'd almost certainly become an international day of mourning and NOBODY would keep their job if they laughed about it on TV. Celebrating and mocking the violent removal of a male's genitals is comedy in our "culture."

By the way, if any illiterates are attempting to read what I'm saying, let me make it clear that I am in no way defending any form of sexual assault, nor am I claiming that all, a majority or even a large number of women are lying. Though I might say that in Hollywood and in politics the number of fakers looking for $ increases dramatically.

As for the book, I didn't buy it, but from what I've read in the excerpts on this site, I tend to believe what I read from "Sheena" as well. It seems like a slightly dramatized writing style, but the events and experiences strike me as authentic. Plus, aside from a nominal amount of book sales, there isn't a whole lot of financial gain to be made from exposing this relatively unknown guru. That's something that differentiates it, in my mind at least, from the stuff that's all over TV being peddled by fame and attention addicts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkmanLIAdXI

Jesse, I couldn't even finish watching that youtube. Those women are so cruel, nasty and disgusting, how can they get away with those revolting comments ugh.

Jen, thanks for the link to the Amazon India listing of Sheena's book. I noted that the critical review you shared was the only bad review out of 10 reviews. So to be fair to Sheena, I'm copying in the positive nine reviews, since you shared the only negative one.
---------------------
(1) Simple language - you do not need to look up a dictionary even once . Small sentences . Sheena writes the details of her journey with simplicity and innocence of a child, and yet brings forth certain facets of human existence. The craving for spiritual enlightenment is very alive in Sheena and she takes the reader through her journey with good flow, anecdotes and events that happen in her life. The book is an excellent read, and it is perhaps the first non fiction book that I finished without putting it down. A very good book.

(2) An extremely relatable, honest, poignant and touching narrative of a spiritual journey-- a pilgrim's progress to seek spiritual growth through trials and tribulations and at the feet of a guru. Loved the traces of humour, the interesting anecdotes, and the raw honesty of the narrator about her relationships. Definitely a must-read!

(3) An Honest revelation of experiences of Sheena as she sets out on a spiritual journey. Speaks a lot about authenticity and fearlessness of the author...After being through several emotional upheavels, her faith in God is unshaken, rather strengthened...A must read book

(4) Sheena’s story is a very compelling moving one. Has a ring of truth about it.As one goes along with her on this journey her emotional upheavals touch your heart deeply. A must read.

(5) The book is an eye opener. So many touching moments and sensitive incidents. Sheena’s journey is amazing. A must read.

(6) Reading a wonderful book after a long time. Can’t put it down.

(7) A heartfelt story that reveals the endurance and resilience of a strong woman. Sheena's story can be related to in so many aspects, yet it is a journey upon which many would not muster the courage to venture. To have loved and lost, and then found the determination to rise again is a fact to be appreciated. She lived life on her own terms, and fought her battles wisely. This is a story of faith, perseverance, and acceptance.

(8) The way #Sheena dealt with problems in her life will inspire!
It is a great and easy read!

(9) Amazing book

Sheena clearly has no malicious intentions, as she has simply described her journey. She is not out to destroy anyone or get revenge.

The events shocked her and changed her view of GSD. She decided to leave and even had the courage to tell him before she left. Impressive.

After the events she witnessed she could no longer accept him as her guruji

One reason is RSSB has a high standard for gurus.

Thakar Singh confessed to much more. Actually kissing female disciples.
When questioned by wolfeing he admitted all and still claimed to be the perfect living master. Wolfeing said the two were incompatible and left. Many others left but thakar continued and new disciples joined.
I personally asked him about the incidents. His reply was "mind your own business"

Other gurus like osho don't have the same standard.

Osho for example tells people not to put him on a pedestal.

To quote him "you put me on a pedestal and I am constantly cutting the legs of the pedestal"


Brian, sorry about not posting all the comments, uh oh, my confirmation bias - not good :(

you do not need to look up a dictionary even once

Like Trump
knowing less than 200 English words
plus some specials : tremendous-fantastic-great-huge-terrific-disastrous )
(applies to mother tongue )

(general public =300, educated 1500, University >3000 )

@287daysleft :

I see you've gone and announced here the actual name (or at least, what you believe is the actual name) of "Sheena".

I wish you wouldn't do that. Doxxing is poor form. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone went ahead and, without taking your permission, announced to the world your own name and personal details. (I know I myself would take strong exception to something like that.)

People have their own reasons for choosing anonymity. I don't see why we shouldn't respect this personal choice that others make.

Provided you agree with me, and provided Brian does as well, how about we remove all allusions to these personal details of "Sheena" that have been bandied around on this thread, including your mention of her name?

Appreciative Reader. after giving it some thought, I've decided to do what you suggested and delete the comments relating to Sheena's real name (aside from yours, urging me to do this). Yes, that name has been reported elsewhere. But I don't want to have it done on my blog.

Sheena had her reasons for using a pen name when she wrote "Memoirs of a Seeker." And in general, women who report on men in power behaving badly deserve to have their identities protected as much as possible. As with the case of Dr. Ford in the United States, who has accused Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavenaugh of a sexual molestation, she kept her name anonymous as long as she could, until it was leaked.

I don't want my blog used for leaking.

I concur.
It crosses a line to give personal information about anyone else. That's there's to give or withhold. The fact that others may have crossed the line does not make it any less respectful.

It invalidates 287's remarks.
There is a minimum standard of civility here. That's good!

The only problem is when someone says they have left RSSB many years ago, and then has two official RSSB books published in their name in 2016 [many years later] it raises some real questions, does it not?

Doesn't it make you ask what is going on here? If it wasn't for that I wouldn't think of bringing it up.

P.S.
She also named her exact position at the Dera which is a matter of public record and anyone can easily look it up, let alone anyone that actually went to the Dera during that period [hundreds of thousands, millions].

.

287daysleft, please provide direct quotes and page numbers to support your assertion that Sheena said she left RSSB many years ago. I don't remember a mention of this in Sheena's book. I've looked through the end of her book. She speaks of her final disillusionment with the guru. Then she speaks of finding her spirituality, and God, in another way.

So tell me where in the book you find any dates that lead you to believe Sheena left RSSB many years before 2016.

Sheena left the Dera around 2005 or earlier. This is known both by Sheena's linkedin profile and anyone who knows that Punam replaced her at Dera at that time. Before she left she had this to say at the end of chaper 32:

Back at the ashram, I walked into Guruji’s office without an appointment.
A Swamiji had once told me I was born to speak my mind. And this was the perfect time...
‘When a disciple has a problem, he goes to the Guru for solace, but when the Guru is the problem, where does the disciple go?’ I said, looking him straight in the eye.
There was tension in the air.
Arrogantly he said, ‘You are stretching it.’
‘No, Guruji, you stretched the rubber band beyond its limit, it’s finally snapped!’
This time I left the ashram never to return.
When I walked out, my exhausted feet crossed the threshold for the final time. end of chapter 32

on page 311 in my copy she says:
My personal experiences shattered the illusions I had of a living Guru or else I would have been trapped in the web forever. The ashram is entangled in its own trappings – trappings of power, wealth, hypocrisy and pseudo-ism. Sewadars are not Guru-loving people, but Guru-fearing people. Today ashrams are a business, another vote bank. This is unvarnished truth. I wonder what turned this spiritual abode around. Did his newly-acquired wealth tip the scales? Is he alone responsible? Or is it the collective Karma of the ashram-ites? All these raise deeper questions which are inescapable. I don’t have the answers, but time will tell... p.311

So, that is why I ask, why is she writing an official RSSB book 11 years later? Something is not adding up here.

Are you saying you think Sheena just recently in the past two years broke with RSSB?
Or even that she is still a loving adherent to RSSB?


.

287daysleft, you're the one with questions. Why don't you find out your answers? All I know is that Sheena published her book in 2018, and speaks of a guru (Gurinder Singh Dhillon) who had become materialistic, controlling, and uncaring. If you have reason to doubt this depiction of the guru, doubt away. I don't have doubts about what is in Sheena's book.

FAKE NEWS BRIAN....FAKE NEWS...JUST LIKE THE LEAK IN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS IS A FAKE SOURCE...

777:

First of all it is my opinion Sheena did not really want to be anonymous. Why do I say that? If I want to be anonymous I do not write a book saying for example I was vice president of marketing for xyz company. That clearly identifies me. Sheena clearly identified herself in the book. This idea that people don't know what they are doing when they do such things comes from watching too many Simpsons episodes.

Secondly she announces in the last paragraph of chapter 32 that she left Dera disillusioned never to return. Because she previously told us her exact position at the Dera we can check and discover she was replaced by Punam before 2005.

Then in 2016 she writes an official RSSB book widely distributed, spoken highly of by Gurinder.

Maybe there is a simple explanation but the facts I'm looking at here do not add up.

Perhaps Sheena and Gurinder cooked this whole thing up to throw us off and confuse us.


.

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