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August 02, 2018

Comments

In Spencer's absence let me paraphrase how I'd anticipate his response to be "THIS IS JUST CONJECTURE! IT'S NOT IN ANY OFFICIAL RSSB BOOKS! HE LIKES HOT CHICKS BECAUSE IT SAVES AFRICAN CHILDREN."

As for Sarah's line "I have tremendous respect and regard for Charan Singh though."

This is likely only cause she never met him. It's much easier to have devotion for people from long ago because you don't get to judge them for who they are, but only based on the hagiographies built up around their name. Charan even got to write his own hagiography. Jesus would have done much more than walk on water had he written his own story.

Maybe Charan was great, who knows, but he obviously wasn't so great as to not become obsessed with wrist watches and to appoint an idiot as his successor.

Typically worldly this world of gurus and audible lifestreams is.

And inb4 anyone says we can't believe some random chick whose story we can't verify, so therefore we should trust the masters.

We have no way of verifying these so-called masters' stories either. So with all the million other gurus chasing (and raping) women, it makes more sense to assume this isn't an anomaly, and that Gurinder routinely says these sorts of things about women. In a highly unlikely supernatural story vs a pretty predictable thing in the guru circuit, I'm choosing to believe the more likely story that Gurinder is a dudebro, and not a saint.

Oh believers, your god is horny.

Brian,

Totally looking like a fake email.
Most likely someone has just trolled you to troll your own blog.

No wonder Jesse is so prompt responding to the post.
I am almost sure Jesse has sent this email using some other identity.

One Initiated, it isn't a fake email. I've corresponded with this person and have good reason to believe that what is described actually happened.

I'm curious. When I doubt someone's supernatural experiences, which go against everything science and reason tells us is true, you and other religious believers tell me that I'm supposed to accept those experiences.

But when an actual human being emails me a message, suddenly you're a skeptic? I don't get this sudden change of heart. I find this person's description of what happened at the Dera hugely more believable than someone's claim that they've reached divine realms beyond the physical.

I realize that the truth hurts, when someone has invested a lot of mental energy in the false promises of RSSB and Gurinder Singh. But denying the truth hurts more, and that's what you're doing to yourself.

@ one initiated - I really hope it’s fake!

I am trying to get myself on track and with hindsight this is not true!

Brian,

Not the content, but the tone of the email and
Jesse's exact comments doing a pre setup for the responses
is raising a lot of doubts.

What have you corresponded,
can you share ?

Truth doesn't hurt Brian,
but we know only if we encounter the truth - because it's golden bright.

The promises are not false Brian,
many have experienced it - many times not once,
and some are always immersed in it.

I am skeptic only on your overwhelming support to Jesse.

One Initiated, it's absurd that unless you can show me a birth certificate with "One Initiated" as your name, you are hiding your real identity, yet you want the person who emailed me to reveal their name.

If they'd wanted to do this, it would have been shown in my blog post. They didn't, so it isn't.

I can vouch this is a real person, with a real email address, who isn't a commenter on this blog. Look, when I say there is no proof of a God, religious believers like yourself respond with, "And you can't prove there isn't a God."

That's an absurd argument, but I'll borrow it for a moment. So you need to prove to me that what this person said about Gurinder Singh's behavior at the December 2017 Christmas meeting at the Dera didn't happen.

You could do this by contacting every other person who attended that meeting and get a shareable written statement from them that these events didn't happen. I await your proof. Until I get it, stop with the claims that the person who emailed me isn't real, and didn't describe what really happened.

777, this comment is for you. I deleted several of your recent comments because they were wildly off-topic and simply regurgitated RSSB dogma in a way that didn't even make sense.

So let's try an experiment. I've heard you say that whatever happens is the will of God, or maybe the guru. OK. Let's test that out. For the rest of the month of August, I'm going to delete your comments as soon as I can do this. Might take me a day if I'm busy.

If I'm able to do this, by what you say this is the will of God. But if you're more powerful in the eyes of God than me, you will be able to make me leave your comments alone, published. So... the experiment begins, I'm going to delete any comments you leave during the rest of August.

With an exception: if you leave a comment that makes sense and relates to the topic of a blog post, even if I disagree with it, I'll leave the comment published. But if a comment is preachy or wildly off-topic, it gets deleted.

So then Brian,

You should clearly mention
that all you only need is the NEGATIVITY on this blog.

When you are posting everything NEGATIVE related to RSSB,
and you are deleting everything positive and you are declaring that deletion as your SOLE right...
even ditching the relation between the author and the reader - that's a straight forward arrogance.

I hope you will have an awesomely NEGATIVE blog here onwards.
Also I hope and this NEGATIVITY won't increase your problems.

One Initiated, have you noticed that this blog is called Church of the Churchless. Repeat, Churchless. That means the absence of religiosity. I'm negative about religion. I'm negative about fake gurus. Deal with it. Why would I post something positive about a religion such as RSSB, since I've come to the entirely reasonable conclusion that all religions are false?

@ Brian - I can see you point as why you would not publish anything nice about RSSB - knowing that you left and I can see One Initiateds point for his devout reasons.

However - back to you young man- appreciate you left but RSSB is camped on your mind - RENT FREE. In a way you may be Masters greatest disciple. Now that’s an achievement

Take that the right way as I am not here for point scoring - just saying dude!!!

All the best

Having read a lot of books by Osho, I don't see what's wrong with anything mentioned here.

I don't believe in everything I read especially when it is someone's subjective judgment without hearing from others who can confirm it.

It is just hearsay and we need to have some kind of confirmation that this is not just some oversensitive person who is projecting their own interpretation onto what they are hearing.

It would be good if there was some kind of recording that could verify this person's claims about what Gurinder said. Maybe there are others who were present who could also share their impression of what he was saying.

@ Sis Jen. Well said and a lot better written than I could ever imagine.

All the very best

Dear Brian,

I was not even saying about believers/non-believers stuff,
I was plainly pointing towards considering the validity of a comment,
irrespective of the fact it's from a believer/non-believer.

You talked about "reasonable conclusion"
I hope you are reading all the comments,
if you can honestly reply,
how many you see the reasonably concluded comments in the last posted 20 comments from Jesse ?
I mean by fully keeping the factor of being a believer/non-believer aside.

One Initiated, sorry to skip the formalities, but you're an absolute moron. I didn't write that email.
Jesse

"I don't believe in everything I read especially when it is someone's subjective judgment without hearing from others who can confirm it."

This necessarily means not believing anything in any RSSB book. Nothing they say can be confirmed.

Reading through all these psychotic conspiracy responses from One Initiated, I'm getting a bit worried that the new generation of RSSB followers are similar to the violent followers of Ram Rahim Singh.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/08/ram-rahim-singh-supporters-riot-rape-conviction-170825114911486.html

Long ago, it seemed westerners, NRI's and the upper crust of India had a lot of sway in the cult, which contributed greatly to its development, both culturally and infrastructurally, especially considering all those giant "tent" constructions which are very unique in India. Now, the cult has declined to being crazy uneducated people expressing their anger about their dear leader being disrespected on the internet.

My prediction is that within a few years, there will be riots at the Beas Dera, or some other form of mass violence associated with and likely initiated by RSSB adherents. The new guru isn't delivering, he's initiating insane people, and they're making enemies with many other religions. Not a good direction to go in.

For those unhappy with what I say about your cult, please visit RSSB.ORG . It is your gurus personal website and is reported to feed bani directly through your computer monitor. Your feelings will be protected there.

One Initiated, thank you for helping me to make a point that I repeat a lot on this blog. Skepticism about someone's personal experiences is warranted, especially when these are claimed supernatural experiences.

Weirdly, you're way more skeptical about a woman who attended a public event at the Dera in 2017, giving a detailed description of what happened and when it happened. It's possible for her recounting to be read by other people who were there, and they are free to share their own memory of what Gurinder Singh said.

Skepticism is good. Keep this in mind the next time you hear about someone's supposed supernatural experiences. It makes sense to be much more skeptical about those experiences, since they can't be confirmed by other people.

I've exchanged several email messages with this woman. I've learned things about her that add to her credibility. I have a history of accurate blog posts, since I'm active in local politics in my town, and I have a reputation as a good "investigative blogger."

I frequently get tips from people who don't want to be identified, but have credible information. It is very rare that I make a serious factual mistake in my blog posts, though local conservatives like to accuse me of that.

What you're accusing me and this woman of is close to Trump's baseless accusations of "fake news." That irritates me, because a free press, which includes free bloggers, is key to democracy and the pursuit of truth. You have no reason to doubt this woman, but you criticize her because you don't like what she said.

Well, too bad. You need to learn to deal with the truth. I won't stop speaking the truth, and I won't stop defending the truth from religious true believers who want to spread their dogma without being challenged.

AGAIN , NO DATE NO DATE NO DATE
ABOUT THIS DECEMBER QA SESSION

Out of context - The Joke bowed and trolled


7

777, it said it was the Christmas sessions. Most people know the dates near Christmas, but since you don't, it's around December 25

MY FAVOURITE PROSTITUTE

( story 4 hypocrites )


Amir Khusro's Unshakable Faith in Guru

Nizamuddin Auliya had thousands of disciples. Out of them, 22 were totally devoted disciples who considered him as God Incarnate.


Once, Hazrat Nizamuddin Auliya thought of putting them to a test. He roamed around with his disciples for the whole day in the market of Delhi. As night fell, he went to a brothel. The prostitute led him upstairs with great respect and courtesy. All the disciples were waiting downstairs in anticipation, 'Guruji should be coming down soon...he should be coming soon.'


The prostitute was immensely pleased and wondered as to what stroke of fortune had brought this saintly person to her place. She said to Auliyaji, "I have been blessed by your presence here. In what way, may I render service to you?"


Auliya told her, "Instruct your maid to bring food on a platter along with water in a liquor bottle, in such a manner that my disciples get the impression that I have asked for food and liquor."


The prostitute had but to obey the command. She instructed her maid accordingly.

After a little while, the maid carried the food and the liquor bottle upstairs as per the instructions. Some of the disciples contemplated, 'We were under a mistaken impression...Guruji is not what we have been thinking all along. He has asked for liquor!' Thinking thus, some of the disciples ran away.


As the night progressed, more and more of his disciples left one by one. Finally, it was dawn, and Auliya came downstairs.


He saw only Amir Khusro waiting for him. Feigning ignorance, he enquired, "Where have the others gone?"


Amir Khusro replied, "All have left."


Auliya asked, "Why did you not leave? Didn't you notice that I had asked for liquor, and spent the whole night with the prostitute."



Amir Khusro replied, "O Master! I might have left, but where could I have gone except towards your lotus feet?"


Benign Grace poured out of Nizamuddin Auliya's heart, and he said, "Your wait is now over. You are accomplished."


Such was the single pointed faith of Amir Khusro. Even to this day, the shrine of Amir Khusro beside that of Nizamuddin Auliya reminds us of a sincere disciple's devotion to Guru, a disciple's unshakable faith in Guru.

“It would be good if there was some kind of recording that could verify this person's claims about what Gurinder said. Maybe there are others who were present who could also share their impression of what he was saying.”

Recording seems to be very difficult, anyhow here is a part from an Information Sheet for Gurinder’s visit to Tenerife Spain on 26th July18, which may be helpful to answer this question.

SATSANG: There will be a spiritual discourse beginning at 10.00am, followed by a Question & Answer session…..

NOTE TAKING: It is Master’s wish that we take full advantage of his presence and not spend time and attention taking notes. Therefore, you are kindly requested to refrain from taking notes during the Satsang and Question & Answer session. The taking of notes and the passing of such notes to others by any means, including e-mail & social networks, is strongly discouraged.

RESTRICTED ITEMS: Mobile phones, electronic games, cameras, binoculars, ipads, tablets, smart watches, MP3 players including Ipods, audio & video recorders or any other electronic items MUST NOT be brought into the venue. LARGE BAGS, food or drinks will not be permitted inside the Satsang Hall. Anyone with these items F leave them in their vehicles or deposit them at the Lost & Found counter. Only a small handbag will be allowed inside the Satsang Hall.

PHOTOGRAPHY AND AUDIO/VIDEO RECORDING USING ANY ELECTRONIC DEVICE INCLUDING MOBILE PHONES AND/OR SMART WATCHES IS NOT PERMIITTED ANYWHERE ON THE PROPERTY.

…The satsang began a little earlier than the scheduled time. Here is one of the Q&A by a Man which made the hall full with laughters.

Q- Babaji, two days ago I was feeling very sad without any reason and I had no intention whatsoever to come to attend this satsang, but Hazur Maharaj ji came in my dream and advised/instructed me to go to see you and give you a big hug and everything would be fine after that, so following his instructions I’ve come here, now shall I come to the stage to give you a hug or you would come down here to give me a hug.

A-Stay there, you see there are more then 1000 people here and it is not possible for me to give hug to all of them and it would not be right to just hug one.

Q- But Babaji this is an instruction from the Great Master, and he has also send something for you.

A - I am sorry, I don’t accept any gift from anybody.

Q- It is not a gift from my side, it is something the Master has given for you and I am to follow the instructions of the great Master, and I’m not going to take it back. Would you not like to know what it is?

A- Ok, what is the gift?

Q- He has send a big kiss for you.

A- No..no...no.. no way, Had it been a young lady I would have considered but not from you at all, well, you can give this is to Jack (The Spain Representative, who was sitting near Babaji). We have to share the work.

After this he turned his face to the other microphone for another question.

At least Babaji is straight, not a Gay. His Empire is well structured, he is not going to leave any proof.

It is normal, I think anybody else in his place would have also done the same. The Baba business of this magnitude can prosper only in this way. Who doesn’t want a easy comfortable life,?difficult for the ardent followers to digest the reality.



"Skepticism is good. Keep this in mind the next time you hear about someone's supposed supernatural experiences."

Anyone can write you anything, unless that person comes online
and respond to the associated queries, that's doesn't appear to be gravitational.

I ask you the same question:

If someone writes his negative experience, you are prompt to trust on it and post it as a blog post,
I also note that you put cheesy titles to add up the spice.
Ofc you've no way to assert if that content was actually true.

The same way someone also writes you about unimaginable inner experiences,
but you can't agree on them because you'd ask "what's the proof ?"

Unless the expression is countered and explored, either negative or positive,
it can not be asserted.
Like what Jim explained as his personal experience, he is here online,
and he did responded to all the questions many commenters asked him,
about what he felt and he responded to them all.

Similarly, anyone here who shares their inner experiences here,
are all available to address the counter questions - and each and every such person
does respond to the questions.

I would also like to mention here about the non-importance of revealing the real name,
as you asked me why I go with the name "One Initiated"
I would say even if I create an email address with some realistic sounding name,
how can that be proven to be a legit name and person ?
At least I always post by using my Typepad account, so that should actually work like a real identity, because only I can post with that account - even if someone else uses this name, the link to typepad profile will be different - so in that sense - it's proved that I am genuinely posting comments
and also responding to the questions.

I would totally disregard that argument of presenting/hiding the real name/identity, because in this time it's so simple to create a real like identity and it's not a big deal really.
I just wanted to be anonymous and at the same time wanted to select a name which reflects my inner feeling always.

Skepticism is not only good, it's great.
As repeated many times by Soami Ji Maharaj,
unless you witness it with your very own eyes(third), you can't be sure about it.

And then Brian, not others,
would you also be skeptical about your own experiences as well ?
(because that's what you are asking me to do).

If yes, then it's like after eating a tasty dessert,
you question yourself in skepticism,
was it really that tasty, or it was all my illusion ?

If you again respond yes to this,
I would challenge you to create same illusion at the time of
eating the uncooked bitter gourd. Can you ?

One Initiated,

I've suggested this amazing advice to you many times already, but once again let me tell you that the website you're looking for is RSSB.Org

You've entered the wrong address into your browser again and have failed to reach the hugbox you're in desperate need of.

Here, nobody is required to care about your mysticism, nor does anyone have to provide a balanced perspective about your cult. If you want positive news pertaining to your mystic cult, go to your gurus website. Your feelings are safe there, One.

Jesse

@ Brian - just a thought I gave one of your books to two people - it changed their lives . One become a vegan and is doing well as a member of the military (he was a lost cause before). He didn’t find God but he told me that your book helped him find Himself and through your words. And the other one avoided a gang land lifestyle - trust me these people you would not have want to have met before I tried to help them.

Just thinking the irony of it all in the end and for me ( as I question everything).

You make us question which is awesome as it protects us but promise me this that you are not down the slippery road to hatred through this informed exposure of others faults etc... I became like that and it took some really nice people years to bring me back!!!

Just saying the above as it popped into my mind! I’m not here to preach as I have many demons myself and just trying to keep them a bit quiet. As we say in the military - just avoid making the situation “noisy” 😊

Wow Arjuna,

Good to read those short accounts, thanks for sharing.
God bless you, keep it up!!

You promised to not break the bro code 🤜🤛

Love.

@ one initiated - just saying it as it is. Those two men are hard men now with a heart and whatever purpose or goal they chose is their choice.

Just marvelling at Brian - he is the one who inspired them to change or his words. Irony hey 😊

All the best and love

@ one initiated - I would only knock some one out in self defence but people stir clear and some cross the road when I walk aroung the city. Not good.

In this world you have to hiss too 😊

Why not forward this post to Wayne, or Gurinder or anyone in administration at Dera in Novembe / December who attended the Westerners’ evening meetings at hostel 6?

Curious to hear their take, remarks, excuses...

It’s inappropriate for an RS guru. Can’t even imagine what Great Master’s reaction would have been. Times haven’t changed enough to this behavior acceptable... not with RSSB.

Sarah

Please re-read Amir Khusro's Unshakable Faith in Guru, above

Don't be so disturbed, listen to the Sound, . . it will tell you Truth and Beauty

777


"Sarah, please worship men who steal money and gawk at women like perverts. We're more accepting of crimes against women within our ranks of holy men than the Vatican is of kiddie diddlers. So please, just ignore what you see, hear, read, know, sense, and feel. Continue in the cult, and be faithful for no reason other than my online gibberish about faith, sounds and god knows what else. Insert random name of poet guy who was called a saint in the first centuries of last millennium here."

777

Dear 777,

You are very much like Gurinder in your choice of names. He named one of his companies Religare (Latin root word for religion) and the other Logos (obvious). You seem to share the same spirit. You can take that as a compliment if you wish. I wouldn’t.

Those two words, “Favourite Prostitute” (noting the British schooling with the ou spelling—quaint) are somewhat unsettling. First, “Favourite”?? That one actually bothers me the most... you can do the rest of the math.

I’m actually coming from a completely different stance. I respect everyone’s opinions here regarding my email. However, it is clear that GSD has a great deal of power, influence, money, fame, luxury—all the things this world has to offer. Perhaps the only thing he’s lacking is time. I can summarize my feelings about him with one example—the new statue erected at one of the main gates of Dera. It’s a statue of a HUGE manly figure holding a giant silver ball in his hand. GSD “Baba Ji” said that it was to represent that “He” has the whole world in his hands (from the popular Christian children’s song). But the question arises: who is “He”? According to RS philosophy it’s the Negative Power/Kal who has the whole world in his hands so to speak. So why would GSD honor “Him” with a statue at the gates of Dera?

Either GSD needs to stop being so proud of not having read any of the RSSB books in over 20 years (as he commonly states) OR the Sangat needs to wake up and pay closer attention.

I’m not sure exactly what I believe in, but GSD has gone out of his way to make this initiate believe “Baba Ji” hasn’t made it past Trikuti if there is such a thing. He’s made me question many things. Namely, who and what God is.

Hello Sarah. Hope you are well? Something made me log on and see this. I shouldn’t but have now.

I fear he may be a demiurge!

I’m in hell - long story but take care of all you 😀

Hi Sarah,

I like your observation about the statue and this God who has the world in his hands being Kal the negative power, makes sense.

That makes for a disturbing possibility. If -- and I say if -- GSD is not GIHF, then the Masters being a line of incarnations of Kal would explain how satsangs and seva are uplifting and feel genuine.

But that would also imply that there is a real path out there, with a legit GIHF, which there is not. Not one I've ever heard of or seen anyway.

And is leaving the path as easy as saying 'I'm uninitiating myself', if we're dealing with a genuine power?

Would you still want to be uninitiated? Half way is better than nowhere, right?

Since Kal is being discussed, and who is the “ God of This World”....... ( which I believe ) is a Gnostic Article I posted several months ago on anofher Thread that might be condidered as a vslid possibility again. “ He’s Got The Whole World, In His Hands, He’s Got The While Wide World, In His Hand.....”

“THE PLANS OF THE CREATOR GOD
According to Gnostics, the creator god has many plans, which together make up his “grand plan”. This was the reason why he created the universe and man. To achieve his objectives he is going ahead with an evolutionary experiment in which the body, soul and the Spirit of man are taking part. He goes on practicing, trying things out, and if he succeeds he will extend the results to his entire created universe. If he fails, he will have to do away with this project and start again from scratch, as he has done so many times, to try something else again and again. The fact is that he will never be able to make a perfect copy of what he imagined is the unknowable world, which he tries to imitate in vain.
Without a doubt, in this last experiment he achieved success which, although imperfect, has some value. After millions of years of fruitless practicing, he has within a few thousand years made a notable step in the evolution of his greatest work: man. After millions of years of evolutionary suspension in which the hominid man lived like just another animal, he has advanced more in the last 30,000 years than throughout all of history. Gnostics associate this mutation or “creation”, this great evolutionary jump, with the use of Spirits of the greatest purity coming from the uncreated world.
The creator god modelled a body from the dust of the earth and, with his breath, gave it an animic element, the soul. To this soul, this breath of the creator, he affixed a Spirit, which was trapped through trickery and imprisoned against Its will in this satanic monstrosity of dust and breath: the body and soul of man. It is the divine energy of the imprisoned Spirit which impelled and continues to impel the evolution of the man-animal!
And why does the creator want this being to evolve? So that it will transform itself gradually into him. That is why he made his precepts and commands. He wants man to transform into himself, the creator, to become the same as him. The body and soul would be very happy if this happened because they are part of the creator god. But the Spirit is not part of him; It has another origin and another destiny.
As long as the Spirit is chained up, everything goes well, It impels evolution. But if even one Spirit frees Itself It disturbs the whole plan. That is why it is so important that the tyranny of the demiurge is absolute, and that all knowledge which could wake man up and make him remember who he really is, remains forbidden because it would be dangerous knowledge, so dangerous that it would be able to destabilise the plan of the creator god. According to Gnosis, only one Spirit which can free Itself would be able to weaken the whole creation and also weaken the creator god, preventing him from continuing with his plans. This Spirit would be a saviour, a saviour of the world and the other Spirits. It would favour the liberation not only of other men but of the entire universe, of the innumerable divine sparks coming from the uncreated and eternal world which find themselves imprisoned here, in this great blind machine, in order to make it work and evolve.
This system, created by the demiurge, cannot function unless it possesses these particles of the Spiritual world enslaved, imprisoned here. Gnostics say that of all these Spiritual particles, those imprisoned in human beings are the most important in Spiritual hierarchy and purity.
The demiurge created and assembled all this and encourages it to evolve. So that it evolves towards him, with the human being ahead. If the experiment with man fails, he will lay his hands on another of his creatures and try again.
We have said that the demiurge wants man to evolve until he turns into him and becomes the same as him, so that every soul, or in other words his own breath, and everyone made of dust can return to him, transforming themselves into him. This is the final objective that the demiurge has for man.
Because of all this, it is fundamental to the demiurge to keep the Spirit imprisoned so that he can use Its energy. This is why the demiurge needs man to remain half-asleep and confused so that man keeps on blindly approaching him, the creator, who lures him with tricks and punishment. For this whole system to work, man has to keep on believing that the creator is the only god that exists and that he is a good god.
Gnostics maintain that if man evolves to the point where he merges with his creator, at that moment his Spirit will lose all possibility of freeing itself while this universe lasts.”

Yes PJ, it is very disturbing. I'd forgotten about Jim's experience with Gurinder who seems to be playing some sort of game nowadays, like he wants to be trendy and fit in with the westerners and he probably would not use such vulgar language when he's giving satsang to the Indian satsangis.

About "the plans of the creator god - If he fails, he will have to do away with this project and start again from scratch, as he has done so many times, to try something else again and again."

So often, especially nowadays, I feel like I've been through this kind of life over and over again. So strange! How to escape...

Hi Jim

Concerning your topic above but even more
the topic of Gurinder taste for beautiful women

combined with the (Charan's) Lamborghini for us instead of our rusty bicycle

I like so much much more King Akbar's story who was a Saint and liked women
also very much
When the hypocrite preachers entered
he had 3à of his 300 wives around Him massaging Him

When these preachers flabbergasted came closer
they saw the massage concerned only half his body

He said: " Please come closer"
and they saw the other half was laying on very hot iron plates

He said "I un-attached to either side, gentlemen "

When thinking of Martyrs from many religions
in their birth stade ( the religion )
feeling no pain at all

THEY MUST HAVE BEEN ATTACHED TO A SUPREME BEAUTY (Sound??)

JIM
No iota ( atom/quark) of creation will be lost
There is some difference in time 'they' stay
before being transformed into LOVE
from half a nanosecond up to 999 Tera Big Bangs

Compare the Russian Pilgrim you said you read
with the colossal PHILOKALIA
( I can lend the 5 tomes to you Sir )

777


Please Brian
Can U arrange that our PSEUDOS appear
at the top of the comments
That way , my detesters can much more easy
NOT read me
and your problem is solved

There were some local satsangis who reported extremely negative experiences associated with their meditation, and it seemed possible that they attributed it to something similar to what is being discussed here about negative powers and kal and demiurge and evil and whatever.

But why even allow RSSB or Gnosticism or any other popular religious story access to your mind? Why do we need any of these myths to explain a greedy man who likes to gawk at chicks and who maintains a family cult?

Maybe people have negative experiences in their meditation because subconsciously we can sense who is or isn't an asshole better than our conscious mind can, and the subconscious mind is saying "this dude is a dick. Don't worship him, bro. lol get out of the cult, fool."

Personally, I didn't need any special symbology to figure this out. Being forced to literally worship someone who's raking in cash and being a dick is pretty much the opposite of a spiritual setting I'd like, and I stopped trying to explain it to myself long ago.

It's all bs.

777, you're an absolute shill of the lowest order.

"I like so much much more King Akbar's story who was a Saint and liked women
also very much"

Don't lie. You can't verify sainthood. What you mean to say is that he's been given the title of "saint" by random people who nobody knows. If you're going to call him a saint, then you must call me the Absolute God. My title is as valid as those you apply to random "Akbars."

And why mention the Philokalia or the Russian Pilgrim? Both have specific advice against "eastern religions." In the Way of the Pilgrim, the Pilgrim is told to stay away from "Indians" because they're all wrong and they ruin religion. Maybe the Russians were aware of corrupt power hungry "saints" and gurus and their insane followers long before the rest of the world.

PJ said

"" That makes for a disturbing possibility. ""

Don't panic PJ

Jesus said 3 times to the mafia proctor
that he owns this planet

He Jesus must have seen the MAUJ , the grand scheme
if not He could have accepted this offer from pauvre satan
777

777,

Sawan and Charan both essentially called Jesus a complete loser in terms of yogic attainment.

The beliefs and stories you refer to are not all compatible. Either Jesus is a sissy who didn't get to a high heaven and was tempted on the Cross and failed, or he had "seen the mauj."

Choose what you believe in if you're gonna ramble on about this stuff.

Sarah

WTF - have you actually seen this statue? Anyone got a picture?

Disturbs me if this is indeed true - remember the feeling one (many of us?) used to get when approaching the Dera and seeing the spires of the Satsanghar?

A large statue would certainly detract and spin a few brains in my view.

Maybe the silver ball needs a companion - The figure could then represent something that ‘has the old jiva by the balls’!

Not good, more evidence RSSB is now a religion.

In addition to the religious and philosophical reasons for thinking of the master in ultimate terms, there are psychological motivations. Sudhir Kakar points out that the exaggeration of the master's qualities goes hand in hand with the magnification of one's own pride in knowing such a person. These "psychological mechanisms of idealization and identification," he says, "give a newfound centrality to the self." According to Kakar, "the uncritical eulogizing of the guru" is linked to "the disciple's desperate need for idealization and identification with the Master.' By enlarging their master's role in the cosmos, some disciples may be magnifying their own, and they see in their master's features the ideal characteristics they hope for in themselves.

('Radhasoami Reality' page 216)

Calling 777. Calling 777. Please report to reality ASAP

Thanks Sarah,
for coming online and responding to the queries.
your presence is valuable.

If you allow me to ask you some questions:

When Babaji mentioned about the statue,
did you ask HIM further what HE meant by "he"
or the later explanation that you added was your own interpretation ?

Also, there is one more statue which was under construction,
near the round about where the straight road to Hostel 10,11 starts.
That was showing hard working persons - but it wasn't completed when I visited.
I think it must have now been completed, did you see that as well?
I was curious to know what and how it came out finally ?

What I had observed regarding the statue in question:

The statue is not at the main gate,
it's installed on the round about on the downward road from Hostel No. 10-11.

The statue shows the planets and the sun,
and a person holding a giant ball in his hand.

The "he" here means the disciple,
who has ascended from this planet, and has gone out of the solar system.

Jim, sir as you depicted one of your experience in meditation,
of witnessing the earth.

Cal some one get a visual of this stature please ???????

Need one of the google satellites to fly over and take a snap of cameras are not permitted.

If realign the bloody Hubble for a snap.

Over and out!!!

"Charan both essentially called Jesus a complete loser"
I don't think this is true, Jesse.

Hazur used to mention the quotes from Bible many times,
and talk very positively on Jesus Christ's life's incidents.

Jim - Cheers, fascinating read!

Sant Mat, as we know is gnosticism. Based on Kabir's Anurag Sagar. But Kabir's 'backstory' for Kal/Demiurge is completely different to what the Christian Gnostics put forward. So either one of both of them are fabrications.

Gnosticism is the most stressful of all belief systems because it puts you at odds with your environment, family, and everyone else's concept of God. You become a Neo, trapped in a hostile prison, surrounded by NPCs (non-player characters) who maddeningly lack your insight into reality.

However, Occam's razor says that people like Kabir come up with this idea periodically throughout history, in order to differentiate themselves from existing religions, and create their own band of followers. Maybe there is nothing more sinister to it than that, and there is no 'kal masters', only one creator, or 'Great Architect'. Who wants us to evolve etc.

Or then again maybe we are trapped in the matrix...

jesse
""Sawan and Charan both essentially called Jesus a complete loser in terms of yogic attainment.""

THIRD REGION He said
This is the top of the Highest of the Highest of Mind
Just under the great light_less Sunna region of void

By acknowledging Him , He (Sawan) has also helped him passing the giant void

jesse don't let to many capable forces ( proctors, demiurges ) find out about u
these lower proctors reign à la Oapshe (must_read) with 100% justice and 0% merci

777

-

I consider my “self” a Christian Gnostic Spiritist. I strive fo become the Sun in my own Solar System! ( as we all do, with out knowing it. )

Sant Mat One is definitely a Gnostic Religion, and is the Sant Mat I subscribed to, and not the Sant Mat 2,3,4 now being hyped by GSD and even Ishwar Puri.

As I posted here awile ago, I try to Cruise, float, skim, paddle, Sail on the Ocean, with out merging in to It completely, to become IT, and be an·ni·hi·late
əˈnīəˌlāt/Submit
verb
past tense: annihilated; past participle: annihilated
destroy utterly; obliterate.
"a simple bomb of this type could annihilate them all"
synonyms: destroy, wipe out, obliterate, wipe off the face of the earth; More
defeat utterly.
"the stronger force annihilated its opponent virtually without loss" completely. A deep dip occasionally, as when in Samadhi, is getting close enough to the Ocean for me.

I WANT to remain in Kal’s Creation, but strive to progress to the highest Astral Planes, where might be even less dense Planes of existence such on other Planets.

We just need to use a little Comon Sense, that Fundamentalists market as Esoteric religeons.

My very best guess is, there is not one single reader or poster in Hine’s Churchless Church that will voluntarily choose to merge in to any Ocean to completely loose their identity for Eternity. Its all talk and posturing.

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

JIM
"" , there is not one single reader or poster in Hine’s Churchless Church that will voluntarily choose to merge in to any Ocean to ........ ""

Jim
Nothing is lost

Only there are items that nobody is ever anymore interested in ( overthere )
Maybe that stuff shrinks and shrinks and shrinks
whole the Love does grow and grow and grow

Please see the absolute as hyper-dynamic

Love to so many of readers


777


"Sarah" typing here... (my real name is Cleopatra, lol)

Jim, I enjoyed reading your repost on the Gnostic philosophy. Although, I thought that RSSB teaches that the Soul is to merge with the Divine in Sach Kand, not with the Creator in Trikuti. There's a big difference in the Creator and the Divine. Am I right?

Jesse, you crack me up.

Arjuna, I hope you're OK... not in hell. :)

PJ, I'm placing my bets on Matrix.

One initiated, true Charan did often quote Jesus. One line Charan liked to repeat over and over was the one where Jesus talked about how it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.

Tim, Yes, I've seen the statue. It's constructed in one of the round-a-bouts. It is a giant man (dark green I think to blend in with the foliage in the circle. The man is naked but you can't see anything inappropriate. He is lying down and holding a giant silver ball in his hand. It could have been a collective project from the kids school at the Dera. If you're not familiar with the school then check out Path Seekers on the RSSB site. That's the name of the school I believe.

777, Your personal philosophy is like a fusion of Sant Mat and Stranger Things... (head scratch). As to WHEN the Q & A took place, it was Nov/Dec session 2017. What do you think about the statue at Dera? Did Charan really have a Lamborghini? If so, that is weird, but keep in mind that just one of Baba Ji's planes costs more than all of Osho's Rolls Royces put together. He flies in an Airbus!! Trump would be really jealous. Do you think Baba Ji would mind if I had 300 husbands? Or what about 300 wives?? I like women too... ;)

__________________________________________________________

As for me, I wouldn't mind merging into the ocean as long as it's beyond the material worlds. There are moments where I really don't even care if my Soul dies when I die. I mean, in the way that Atheists view death. Not feeling anything is the same as not feeling pain. And this world is full of pain. It's also full of beauty but not sure it balances out...

Kundalini is an intense energy that I've had both very positive and very negative experiences with. The type of Meditation performed in Sant Mat is basically working with kundalini... and that can cause many people to have very negative inner experiences.

Baba Ji said in October 2016 session Q & A that when a person sees Jesus, Mohammed or sometimes even the Master at death that it can be a projection of the mind. He says that so much of what we see inside is a projection of the mind... (and that's open to a lot of interpretation).

What is the purpose of the Dera? Is it a spiritual colony or a real estate project. It's grown into a proper town with a shopping mall, grocery store, hair salon, school, banks, etc. (and yes, I have seen all of these things... 2017 most recent trip).

I would LOVE to believe that Gurinder is completely genuine, honest and sincere in his service to the Sangat, but it's hard to trust a Guru that devotes more time to business than to his initiates. It's impossible to believe in a guru that has Billions of dollars. There are 9,000+ "Deras" in the Punjab alone all with their own guru. That makes up for 80% of the Punjabs population. It's mind blowing how uninformed Westerners are. Many don't even realize that there are at least 4 other Radha Soami groups claiming some of the same Masters in RSSB's line.

I wish the fairy tale were true, but appears it's just a dream.

777, Years ago I googled the day I was born (I don’t know why—just bored) and all of the sudden this big ball of energy hit my crown chakra and went straight down. It was a HORRIBLE experience. A therapist suggested it may have been the result of trauma at birth. I asked Baba Ji about this (in a round about way because I didn’t want to sound crazy) and he had no idea. But since you seem to be intimately familiar with crazy (proctors/demiurges) what’s your take? Seems to me that if Baba Ji were a perfect master/satguru then he should have known what I was talking about...

Maybe there is no absolute truth when it comes to religion or philosophy. Perhaps one just needs to choose which meets their psychological needs. Maybe truth is relative.

I feel sorry for GSD’s wife and family. Guess I’m still stuck in this... it’s so chauvinistic. I wish someone would inform Gurinder that God is a woman... of course, he would probably like that. It’s always money and lust that bring these men down in the end...

@ Sarah - a big hello and your posts are great to read and make me smile - so witty. “stranger things” lol - that’s a great series.

The reason I am writing this is from my heart - and I hope Gurinder has read.

This path has caused me a lot of heart ache in that i am questioning myself about about - however I am very strong minded and know when to guard myself against my thoughts. People call it a cult but that is wrong as a cult has a purpose - sometimes they have wrong purposes which are only discovered when they implode. It not Science if the Soul as nothing can be validated. So what is it? That the question and whom does it serve???

This master has said there is no Kal and no regions - what does that mean? Does that imply that the ones who came before from him were reading from a different script?

The biggest question is who created us ? I believe there must be a creator and who is his rep on earth??

And finally I read her that one of his nephews is being chased for large amounts of money in India - however he has sought refuge at beas. He is even being touted as the best One - master. On on heavens name is going on? This is sickening! I thought money and God were like night and day!

Kundalini- wow I did nit know that we mediated on that. Bit that I do. But when I did I used to have dreams which were very dark and demonic. Can you explain more on kundalini with regard to sant mat please?

Gurinder if he is not gihf neee to call it a day - no one will say anything it do anything as most of us will get peace of mind. This is torture.

Hope you are well too😀

Cleopatra,

I added the comment related to Statue, but it didn't get publish.
Brian, I am not sure if you deleted that or it's in Typepad Spams,
if you deleted it then it's ok I understand,
but if it's in spams then Typepad has got some weird algorithms.

You wrote:
"Kundalini is an intense energy that I've had both very positive and very negative experiences with. The type of Meditation performed in Sant Mat is basically working with kundalini... and that can cause many people to have very negative inner experiences."

Your interpretation like many is quite wrong and interesting.
Whether or not it's related to Kundalini could only be known
if and when the Kundalini has awaken on you in it's majesty.

But I believe it's really not the case, because when you progress on
Sant Mat meditation, the vibration is felt on the Crown, experienced ?

You wrote:
"Baba Ji said in October 2016 session Q & A that when a person sees Jesus, Mohammed or sometimes even the Master at death that it can be a projection of the mind. He says that so much of what we see inside is a projection of the mind... (and that's open to a lot of interpretation)."

That is not new Sarah,
this happened to the Great Master as well,
when HE was ill and saw the projection of His Master Baba Jaimal SIngh Ji Maharaj
who offered Him to consume non-vegetarian to speed up recovery,
He got confused as His Master always ordered Him to stay away from
alcohol and the non-vegetarian (specially He was in Army where these things are regular)
but He didn't consume it but sent a letter to His Master and received
the response: "Master's order never change".

That is so true for eternity.
You think Master's order has changed ?
Has Babaji ever mentioned you to consume the prohibited stuff
and/or not sit for 2.5 hours early morning ?

Cleopatra,

I added the comment related to Statue, but it didn't get publish.
Brian, I am not sure if you deleted that or it's in Typepad Spams,
if you deleted it then it's ok I understand,
but if it's in spams then Typepad has got some weird algorithms.

Sarah writes,...”"Sarah" typing here... (my real name is Cleopatra, lol)

Jim, I enjoyed reading your repost on the Gnostic philosophy. Although, I thought that RSSB teaches that the Soul is to merge with the Divine in Sach Kand, not with the Creator in Trikuti. There's a big difference in the Creator and the Divine. Am I right?”

Me: Unless you are the Netamara I have known for 20 plus years, you can’t be Cleopatra, because Net’s soul once lived as Cleopatra,...she said.

As for your question, yes, I do believe our Creator is NOT the Divine, but the Divine created OUR Creator, so we should wonder Who is in charge of the bodies, minds, and souls on Planet Earth?

I listened to a talk Ishwar Puri just gave a week or so ago, and he now really seems to be sailing off the Sant Mat One Tracks.

First, he said that all the people we see in the Astral Planes are not real, and are only projections of our own minds. ( Same as GSD is saying, which I totally reject! )

But Ishwar takes it up another notch, by saying that we sould not worship or concentrate on any objects except our “ Selves” . But we can’t see our selves inside.

So, we need to find, and be initiated by a Perfect Living Master, who is really our own SELF, and concentrate and focus on our Self thru HIM.

Now, he explains it differently than Sant Mat One, but isn’t that what all Sant Mat Initiates do, when they are focusing on the outer Master, either in person, or on Big Screens?

GSD says there are no PLMs, because no human is perfect.

Ishwar clearly indicates that He is perfect, other wise, he would not invite Seekers to focus on his Image, become friends with him, be initiated by him, and love him! I don’t shee how any one could understand it any differently.

Then, ishwar says there are “ No Ghosts or Relatives” inside. They are all projections of our minds.

I reject that also, and believe in how it is taught in Theosophy, i.e. Astral Bodies with forms, and Causal bodies that have different than human forms.

I believe Sach Khand has to be eifher in tne High Astral Planes or Low Causal Planes, because Charan Singh said that “ Souls recognise each ofher in Sach Khand.”

So, I think we Sant Matters are all Gnostics confused in Human Form, and are under the Jurisdiction of our Creator, and NOT The Divine. I have a post in my blog that explains exactly how we got trapped here. I have posted it here in the past, but can link you to it on my blog again if you are interested in reading it.

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

http://eternaloasisofsouls.blogspot.com/2014/11/soul-convicts-wanted-dead-or-alive.html

You wrote:
"Baba Ji said in October 2016 session Q & A that when a person sees Jesus, Mohammed or sometimes even the Master at death that it can be a projection of the mind. He says that so much of what we see inside is a projection of the mind... (and that's open to a lot of interpretation)."

That is not new Sarah,
this happened to the Great Master as well,
when HE was ill and saw the projection of His Master Baba Jaimal SIngh Ji Maharaj
who offered Him to consume non-vegetarian to speed up recovery,
He got confused as His Master always ordered Him to stay away from
alcohol and the non-vegetarian (specially He was in Army where these things are regular)
but He didn't consume it but sent a letter to His Master and received
the response: "Master's order never change".

One Initiated, most or all of your comments have been going in the spam section recently. I guess this must be due to your bad karma. Well, actually I don't believe that, but RSSB devotees probably would.

Hi JIM

Please believe in the Sound
Without Sound é Simran, mind is Mr Hichcock & Spielberg, C.S.

Fakes inside cannot survive the swelling sound

Swelling means sweeter and sweeter
and located ultimately / exclusively at the highest point of our crane

777

@ one initiated - hello “ masters orders never change”. Have a deep think about what you quoted there - a very deep think.

Please stop quoting the past - it is ireevant as this one is changing things.

You like coffee? Make one now and go into your garden and have that deep think.

Love

@
Sarah/Cleopatra
Glad you are a healthy viril woman
you said:
"" What do you think about the statue at Dera? ""

Not much
but the Satsang Ghar has also its mystical meaning
of 7 regions above a waiting room for many

Further I'm really very much admiring Gurinders architektorial taste
expressed in the foreign Satsang Halls
they emit a kind of Darshan ! - Seriously

__________
Lamborgini
In my comments I have so many times
referred to Charan's steady FIRST REMARK in all his satsangs
as follows paraphrased:

Everybody is unhappy because their attachments to temporal things
one will lose everything: tea at 3 o'clock, kids , . . all will go
And The mind is NOT CAPABLE to detach from them

Only when seeing something much more beautiful and it is ETERNAL, . .
then it losenths its grip on the old rusty bicycle
hence this parabel_like
to have this Ferrari instead ( whatever super car :-) )
The car was added by myself to make this more clear
Charan of course compared with the Shabd Dhun above our eyes

It doesn't matter to me and my wife , both seeing
Charan and Gurinder 24/7 inside us plus seeing the enlightment ( of THEM )

Saying to us that they are 'no good'
is like saying :
Sir You don't like Ella Fitzgerald ( while I am listening and enloy :-) )
and while I like her so much

or saying to me :
Sir :You don't like sex !
I like sex but I like the Shabd Dhun more

Hope really you catch it
it s so simple

777

Cleo_Sarah said

"" Or what about 300 wives?? I like women too... ;) ""
Nooo He wouldn't care
if you liked the beautiful Shabd Dhun MORE

and if you wouldn't hurt people made them jealous
with all that glamour (karma!)

77

Original Sarah said: "The worst part of the session began when his constant teasing and joking started revolving around bathroom jokes, nudity and how he couldn’t stop himself from looking at all the pretty girls." ... "he couldn’t wait to see the naked women on the beach" ... "He said it as a joke but it was still nauseating."
"I have tremendous respect and regard for Charan Singh though."

So, Ms Sarah/Cleopatra goes from having quite a puritanical attitude to smutty "Do you think Baba Ji would mind if I had 300 husbands? Or what about 300 wives?? I like women too... ;)"

@ 777 - the sex function had to be completely conquered before we even get to steady the ship (mind) and get pulled inside. We do not get go inside of our own accord??

Correct me if I wrong- sex and God are night and day!


First, he said that all the people we see in the Astral Planes are not real, and are only projections of our own minds. ( Same as GSD is saying, which I totally reject! )

But Ishwar takes it up another notch, by saying that we sould not worship or concentrate on any objects except our “ Selves” . But we can’t see our selves inside.

So, we need to find, and be initiated by a Perfect Living Master, who is really our own SELF, and concentrate and focus on our Self thru HIM

I think the confusion emerges when we're immersed in duality. We
see astral beings but the real essence of what we're seeing is
God, "Totality of Consciousness", whatever you try to name it.
The many astral forms we see wrapping the essence are what's
illusory. God has created a play and is acting out all the roles.

We're worshipping our "SELVES" in the form of a PLM because
we're all God in our essence. We don't see beyond the mask
or the duality. All we see is the external play, the actors, their
forms, and our interactions with them.

Why do we project an illusory form encapsulating a PLM and
pretend he's different? I have no idea at this level. If I were
to reach full understanding, I'd see beyond the external, why
the play was set in motion, and our true essence.

Of course, until then, we'll be listening to our doubts and
cries of "cult", and tales of greedy, lecherous scumbags
posing as GIHF. The drama of the play.

@Arjuna
YES
To attain Brahma's level YES
An ascetic life is mandatory
The 3 Yoga methods ( Ramakrishna - Vivekananda - Ramacharaka - all advaita systems )
Even many re-incarnations are required
conquering the lowest chakras

More strict even to approach Para Brahm

But Tulsi Sahib's and I gave the list with Rumi
is a Path of Sound and Light

A householders Path of relativity
A do-able Path because Who doesn't like to be immerged in 24/7 Love

Also a Path without sorrow , you know when you love
much more than that you know you love hearing yr favorite singer sing.

Now you will ask : But how.

If it's not natural, . . . these Saints give a little trick to the willing

Repetition : You only have to do it all the time
and what follows is automatic

I m not allowed to preach here, if not I would add 5 pages full of Joy
Instead : Arjuna : read some of my older lines

BTW : Arn't u on the battlefield ?


777

@ 777. Thank you for enlightening me. I found that very interesting. I dont think I have ever been in love truth be told as I have too many barriers up and dont let people in. But I am learning and will succeed.

No I am on the battlefield of being slightly hurt. But all will be good once I get my rest.

Stay well my friend.

You hv no music you love? Food haha
Love is Love
In this case from quantity comes quality
777


hi Brian,

Good observation, but I'd say you didn't observe the complete ledger,
see, due to my good karmas, you published them back again - ha ha :D
Anyways, thanks for reposting.

Arjuna,
hope you will feel better soon.

@ one initiated- may the Divine bless you

Sarah

Good that you clarified the statue scenario - there I was conjuring up a picture of a giant GIHF type figure astride the Dera gates, (like the one in Game of Thrones, but holier of course). Just shows how easy it was for my mind to get hooked onto a good storyline. It also shows the importance of clarifying the facts i.e. the statue is not standing (as I thought), but lying down and at a roundabout not at a main gate.

About your comment on what Gurinder said in relation to what people see inside as being mostly a mental projection. While I’m in agreement with this, presenting such information can have quite an impact i.e. folk will interpret it, e.g. as Sant Mat vs 4.1/b (:-)), then likely assess this as not in the teachings and therefor this is a potential source of confusion. Again were you present when he said this? Is it factual?

I think it’s important we are accurate when posting this information as its hard enough trying to assess what Gurinder Singh says and does, given the tight reign he maintains over all RSSB doings including what he discusses in Q&A sessions. I remain interested in what he says, but most of what I hear now comes from this blog! However, this seeming lack of accountability really gets up my nose and extends to the teachings in my view. Your example of kundalini illustrates this well - in Charan’s time my understanding was that kundalini was a no-go subject, even though I have friends (satsangis) who experienced its effects quite intensely. Without help and guidance such experiences can indeed lead to brain fry imo. What I’m saying is this stuff does need to be aired and people, if they cannot get a response from Gurinder need some sort of recourse. This could take the form of an update to RSSB teachings that explain meditation and its potentials historically and in light of today’s world and science. Alternatively many of us have to look elsewhere to gain insight into our own experience and have an outlet for its expression and discussion such as this blog.

In regard to what’s happening at the Dera, if you put aside issues pertaining to how the wealth is being accumulated, then the place could be seen as an example of how India is modernising - kind of like a ‘gated spiritual community’. I was talking to an Indian courier driver (x New Delhi) the other day and he said there’s been so much change I would hardly recognise the place, (I was last there 10 years ago).

@ Tim - hello.

*"About your comment on what Gurinder said in relation to what people see inside as being mostly a mental projection. While I’m in agreement with this, presenting such information can have quite an impact i.e. folk will interpret it, e.g. as Sant Mat vs 4.1/b (:-)), then likely assess this as not in the teachings and therefor this is a potential source of confusion. Again were you present when he said this? Is it factual?"*

Referring to the above - there is a tonne of books and medical journals which have been pointing to the fact that the mind/brain can generate a different reality. So what Gurinder has stated in that its mostly a mental projection is hardly ground breaking material. Its not going to be on TIME magazine- I am afraid.

The question no one is asking him - is how do we see what you see inside? Where are the "Steve Jobs" question askers? People who ask questions that others cannot even think off!

I know he once said that the west (US and UK) will be third wold countries come 12-14 years. He said that at Haynes in 2002 when an indian gent asked him why there was do much corruption in India. His response: " do you not think there is corruption in the west..":-) That prediction is slightly out! The US has a 4.1 growth rate and the UK even with it Brexit issue is still ticking over.

Its a all a bit messed up - oh I will be told to mediate. Phew! That way the answer will come from the divine! Hango n- hold your horses!!! What I will see inside is just my mental projection. Help!!!!!!!!

I will also explain why I stopped going in bullet points to Haynes and the meetings below:

These were my observations and if you knew me - I am not materialistic- yes of course I need food and shelter but I am happy with just that.

1. At Haynes - I heard a local centre secretary say that "if you do seva - the lord gives you a lot of wealth (and no he wasn't talking about spiritual treasure but dollar!!!!!!

2.If you were wealthy or had political influence - you were greeted like you were royalty even though the means by which you acquired it was dubious. Perhaps- mediating helps you in thinking news ways of ripping off the tax man loool.

3 Once you left there- you had a feeling that some members were going to very aggressive. What had we learnt.

4. And the main one- He never smiles and always had his favourites! He walked past me and gave me a look that could have saddened me but I am me and did not read too much into. Hey after all - the mind/brain generates alot who knows what is real and not.

In a nut shell- the contents inside the can did not reflect what was on the label outside.

There are many more reasons I could write an pulitzer winning book. But can be asked.

All the very best and Amen

Arguna writes,...”Its a all a bit messed up - oh I will be told to mediate. Phew! That way the answer will come from the divine! Hango n- hold your horses!!! What I will see inside is just my mental projection. Help!!!!!!!!”

Me: And THAT is the RED FLAG Conundrum, Folks! Arguna nails it right to the Wall for all to rationalize.

Gurinder, Ishwar Puri, Fakir Chand, David Lane, and just about ALL Advaita Teachers, ALL tell us that ALL of our answers to ALL of our questions are to be found inside, so we must meditate to find our answers.

Even Alan Chronshaw keeps saying the same, over and over, i,e. That ALL of our answers will only be found by going within and they are all there,....INSIDE!

Then, Gurinder, Ishwar, Chand tells us, EVERY THiNG inside is only Projections of our OWN Minds, and Lane even further reduces them to Neural brain farts.

Its no wonder there is so much confusion among Satsangis.

Listen to me, all of you Skeotics that keep saying all thse inner experieces are nothing but projections of our own minds.

My mind certainly did NOT project Charan Singh appearing to me is full body form, a foot away from me, standing up, out of no where, while I was in DEEP Meditation, Samadhi, and tell me, Audibly, loud and clear, with his familiar Voice,....” Brother, your body needs Asprin.” Then, surprised, I told him my Doctor did tell me to take one Baby Asprin a day fir my heart, when I was 60 years old, and I took them for 10 years until I was 70, but quit, because they were making me bleed. Charan put his hand on my shoulder, and loving answered, after patiently listening to me, “ Brother, if they make you bleed, just use less.” Then, I was ready to ask him a barrage of questions, and he vaporized, disappearing back to where ever he came from.

And if Charan wanted me to vacate my physical bidy to return Home with him, then why didn’t he just let me have my heart attack and die so I’d be with him?

I belive, it was becsuse he WANNTED me to vidit the Dera, once befote I died, to witnss fir my self what is going on there, so I would not need to reincarnate to see it. Plus, he made sure I was at the exact Q & A Session in Hostel #6 Guest House to SEE, Gurinder, and HEAR him expose the Projections of his OWN human male mind, that showed me, the only Dera I should belive and ever need, is the zdera within my own Body Temple, and not in Beas, India..

Now, that was NOT Me, nor MY Mind, projecting . Charan Singh is not me, has never been me, nor I him. He is him, and I am me.

This Non-Duality Advaita Vedenta belief system is sheer nonesense!

I see the people, Relatives, Ghosts, and visuals every night, while Lucud dreaming, and many times in Meditation when my Surat drops to my athroat Chakra from my Third Eye while in Samadhi. These all are individual, entities, i.e. Astral Spirits.

That’s my belief, verified by years and years of personal ecperinces, nit needing explanation by any of the above nor Atheist Materialistic Skeptics.

I KNOW what I know, because I know it! As Chran once said, “Don’t tell me a Donkey is pulling my Cart when I know its a Horse!”

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

@ Jim - hello.

I have nothing to say that I read what you wrote and that alone answered many things. Thank you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Arjuna

pls don't take a secretary's words seriously
I like really very much there are no priests in RS
So, when he's not greeting you , don't care as yyou do is fine enough

Further
When is said "meditation" most of the time is mend "contemplation"
plus "repetition"
but
real Meditation is when there is absolutely no single consciousness
below and including the eyes
Only then there can be 'NO THOUGHTS' while awake

As this is an ever changing processus , . . . after lots of practise
or immediately by Grace
and I said so many times here
ONE CAN BE IN THIS STATE WHILE PAYING AT THE MALL
without the numbness
It makes understandable how a Saint is so effectively efficient
Beside HIS hundreds of serendipities per day
this efficientcy is dominant in a SatGuru

Further - in this much more photo-devices available than during 
Diana princess included a million 4K drones, tele-objectives, . . .
it's a real wonder that not massive quantity of photos & videos
are available in images.google°com
Only 5 and 2 vids


So, back to checking inner visions with "meditation" . . . it is not very obvious

What in my life was always very obvious is this magical simran
but now I'm going above my by Brians allowed pay-grade

Arjuna, don't worry, just pray if u want help
and help will arrive like rain

Of course all that exists is projected
by us, . . by God, . . . by HIM nothing is un-projected
but a bullet still hurts

777

PS
Let's lay off (all) hypocrisy

Arjuna

pls don't take a secretary's words seriously
I like really very much there are no priests in RS
So, when he's not greeting you , don't care as yyou do is fine enough

Further
When is said "meditation" most of the time is mend "contemplation"
plus "repetition"
but
real Meditation is when there is absolutely no single consciousness
below and including the eyes
Only then there can be 'NO THOUGHTS' while awake

As this is an ever changing processus , . . . after lots of practise
or immediately by Grace
and I said so many times here
ONE CAN BE IN THIS STATE WHILE PAYING AT THE MALL
without the numbness
It makes understandable how a Saint is so effectively efficient
Beside HIS hundreds of serendipities per day
this efficientcy is dominant in a SatGuru

Further - in this much more photo-devices available than during 
Diana princess included a million 4K drones, tele-objectives, . . .
it's a real wonder that not massive quantity of photos & videos
are available in images.google°com
Only 5 and 2 vids


So, back to checking inner visions with "meditation" . . . it is not very obvious

What in my life was always very obvious is this magical simran
but now I'm going above my by Brians allowed pay-grade

Arjuna, don't worry, just pray if u want help
and help will arrive like rain

Of course all that exists is projected
by us, . . by God, . . . by HIM nothing is un-projected
but a bullet still hurts

777

PS
Let's lay off (all) hypocrisy

@ 777 I am not a hypocrite! I am just confused and trying to find answers to calm my mind down so that I may sit.

Thank you for your other words of wisdom.

Dear Jim,

Thanks for always sharing your very personal experiences and opinions.
I agree to some of your comments and disagree to some,
but like reading what you post.

I would like to ask, just as you confirmed
about the two incidents of Hazur appearing you and confirming,

However, in this one: "it was becsuse he WANNTED me"
Were you able to confirm this and also your feelings at QnA with Hazur yet again?
If not, then isn't it all the way possible that all your perceptions are just
the games of your your own mind to derail your faith?

Apart from this, I was curious to know:
(only if you may allow me to ask)
The individuals you met up there which you've described many times,
do you meet them after OR before entering the golden globe ?
(which you clearly described you entered once)

Love.

@ one initiated - hello brother . How can you disagree if you haven’t had jims experience?

And if you had - you would know he is telling the truth. They say that you can see truth even when you get back in the human body

No offence that is like satsang preachers taking about kal sends his lieutenant at the time of death of meat eaters and he beats them for all eternity. Yes one preacher did come out with that bollocks a few weeks ago here in the U.K.!!!!

To One initiated,....I don’t enter the “ golden globe” while Lucid Dreaming, nor even every time in Meditation before I meet and encounter other people, places and things.

When Charan visited me, to alert me, i had been having pains in my heart for a couple of weeks prior, but I didn’t pay it much attention or worry about it, and just accepted it as another issue of aging. I never thought about asking Charan to give me Asprin advice, nor did I ever intend to ever start taking Asprin again after being off it for so long. But I started taking it again that day, and have been taking it every day since.

As for the Dera visit, and my Gurinder exposure, in Oct. 2017, I have not changed my mind or opinion of ANY Thing I said after returning, and have had 10 months to think about it, and examine my prior thoughts about Gurinder and my expectations of him. Sara’s report of her Nov-Dec 2017 Dera visit, and Gurinder’s so Human Male Lust for nude females on the Beach corraborates beyond a shadow of doubt what has taken Gurinder’s mind prisoner,.....( along with 777’s mind! )

Again, I repeat, there is absolute, no way, EVER, ZERO possibility, that either Charan or Sawan would have EVER allowed their tongues to make such comments , even if the thoughts were in their minds, to a mixed group of Westeners in any Satsang or Q & A Session! Gurinder’s Mind has been taken hostage By Lust, and it is HE, that needs counseling from a real Living Master, and not me!

In meditation I just came out of, I was having some past life memory, for certain. I was flying in an old Airplane that almost crashed, then riding on an old Bus that was out of control, almost going over a cliff, and I jumped out of the Bus and saved it from going over the cliff by pulling on the front wheels and fender, strangers were cheering and I was being treated like a Hero. I never knew any of these Astral people/spirits and know none of these events happened from this present life as Jim.

A week sgo, in meditation, I was with my Mother, and we were traveling together in a car. We had conversations about why she was not wearing her glasses to see, considering she is 96, blind in one eye, and has been wearing glasses for 50 years! She said she no longer needs glasses to see. ( she was in her Astral body, and looked about 40 year old. We must have been Astral projecting together. )

You may add any imagination to what I saw you want, but I know these individual people, places and things, are NOT projections of my mind, they are happening in the Astral Plane, another Spiritual/ Material Realm connected with my Higher Self that Jim is on a Mission for, to balence karma and improve Jim’s Higher Self .

Cheers,
Jim Sutherland

No offence that is like satsang preachers taking about kal sends his lieutenant at the time of death of meat eaters and he beats them for all eternity. Yes one preacher did come out with that bollocks a few weeks ago here in the U.K.!!!!

Where did the preacher say this? Haynes?

@ GS hello - that was what I heard threw many hand me down sources - I’m not in touch with the fella who told me as I just banged into him after some time at the airport. It just came to my mind- talking about confusion .

Doesn’t matter - thing is he could be right if he said that. Many cases of strange things happening esp when some old people die etc

To Arjuna,
Gurinder has shared the Initiation Instructions and Sant Mat Technique to go within your self, your own Body Temple, to get your answers, all the answers you need, and I can verify, your Master is inside of your own Body Temple, no where outside.

Gurinder or no other outer Master will save you. You have your own Master within, and only YOU can do the work, Travel within, and meet your Master.

That is Sant Mat, as well as the Rosicrucian Philosophy I was taught, as well as what Jesus Christ taught his Desciples.

You only, are now responsible for your actions. So quit looking for some one else to appear from some where to save you from your self!

You may continue to be your own worse enemy, or you may take the Leap of Faith, and find what ever way possible you need to do to make it happen, but you need to Meditate looking for those answers within, which will unfold, little by little for you, as you explore your Consciousness by Meditation, using what Gurider shared with you. He did his Job, and his responsibility to you is finishished. Now, only YOU may complete your Journey.

Use your Medicine or dump it in the Toilet and keep complaining that you are too sick to get well.

I am sharing Tough Love with you Brother, but that's what a Soldier needs, Tough Love. So Suck it up! We are ALL on the Battlefield here, on earth, but some of us don’t carry Rifles, or wear Uniforms. Some of us wear Street clothing and carry Bibles and Holy Writings, but some of us Walk the Walk, while others Talk the Walk.

Its up to our Elders to determine who are Privates, Corporals, Sergeants or Generals!

Salute, Mate!
Jim Sutherland

@ Jim - thank you and you know me it appears!

Love the tough love from you as you remind me of a mentor I had I making me survive as growing up with parents was hard.

My heart is machine like In many ways it you spark that humanity - I really mean that.

Thank you and see you inside one day.

You have cheers me up today and I am feeling better especially that no one will save me bar that I sit .

@ Jim - were you a solider once and if so I bow my head.

Ps the training is awesome but the thinking solider is lethal. I can see danger in the outside world miles away - I can read micro- expressions and I can protect others. My mind however saves others but floors me with one little slap - what a power it is lol

@Jen - I just copied your whole post and inserted below because it was concise and well put together. I said that thing about the 300 husbands/wives to taunt 777 and to raise focus on how mi·sog·y·nis·tic it is that these tales passed down by saints never use women as “the Queen with 300 wives”...

But as annoyingly preachy as 777 is I like that he can take the punches. Everyone gets pissed at him from time to time (or all the time) but I keep laughing because he rarely takes anything too personally. Although, perhaps that’s because he doesn’t get what we’re saying... OR he’s so used to it in his everyday life.

And regarding “fake people”, I will go ahead and tell you now that by a lot of people’s standards I’m a hypocrite because I may not believe half of what a religion or guru is saying but will still attend their churches or satsangs. I’m very much an a la carte believer when it comes to religion and philosophy... esp politics.

There are many shades of gray.
__________________________

Original Sarah said: "The worst part of the session began when his constant teasing and joking started revolving around bathroom jokes, nudity and how he couldn’t stop himself from looking at all the pretty girls." ... "he couldn’t wait to see the naked women on the beach" ... "He said it as a joke but it was still nauseating."
"I have tremendous respect and regard for Charan Singh though."

So, Ms Sarah/Cleopatra goes from having quite a puritanical attitude to smutty "Do you think Baba Ji would mind if I had 300 husbands? Or what about 300 wives?? I like women too... ;)"

Posted by: Jen (I hate fake people)

Hi Arjuna so you are well trained. Do you use weights also and what fighting style did you train in..did you also train bjj?
Jim...hello to you too!

Hello Marko.

Yes we are trained and my personal style is Krav Maga ( I do it in my spare time£ as to the rest I can’t and will not disclose - sorry.

Why are you in the forces.?

No Arjuna i am not in forces...i like moving of the body in general...
Like hath yog..bjj...systema...running..weights and so on...otherwise i am musician so sport is only hobby ....

@ marko - wow you are a creative soul - music. I paint sometimes the horrors I see.

I do wonder about God and what humans do to each other when bad and desperate times come.

After all we are all essentially animals - keep the music going it’s a release.

I do weights and bag work and sometimes stretching classes and what they call spinning classes and it’s god as i get to look at extremely fit woman and I can I’m single so who cares! But not a pervert. A gent to the last

""" Lust for nude females on the Beach corraborates beyond a shadow of doubt what has taken Gurinder’s mind prisoner,.....( along with 777’s mind! ) """


I made it very clear that
there is no difference between the attachment for a cup of tea at 3 oclock
and sex attachment "

Both will prevent unification when they are stronger than the attachment to the Shabd Dhun

One cannot ascend and descend at the same time

To be hyper-hysteric is from the Victorian age and un-just and is un-helpful for your destiny
Your Jésus loved a prostitute , called his accusers hypocrites
You would have crusified Him too

Gurinder just tried to lighten UP these strange pervers correlations between sex and sin


The goal in RSSB is LOVE and to be one with the ultimate LOVE ( Shabd )

Try THAT Jim, . . instead of
traveling madame Blavatski's etheric spheres much under akashic spheres
let alone astral the astral
many there know about aspirin as U knew yourself

Seek what you sought as a young preacher : I hope it was LOVE

777

@ 777 . Mary Magalene was not a prostitute!!! A priest in the 5th century said that everyone believed him!!!!

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