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March 05, 2018

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Sant-mat is the common denominator in all religions. Anyone can witness , people indulging in principles against tenets of sant-mat are killing each-other or indulging in corruption.
Sufism being practiced in the name of Islam is against the teachings of Kabir / Moslem Indian Saint , who preached non-violence.
Modern physics is validating sant-mat, infinite violent energy is present even in the stone idol of Jesus. Any atheist who says that god/ primal energy is not present in the stone idol is a fool, modern physics says infinite violent energy is also present in stones.

Brian, you make great points but again it's exaggerated beyond credible to support your view.

You started off with a false conclusion:

"One of the best arguments against believing in God is that there so many varieties of religious belief.

This doesn't happen in science, where there isn't an Eastern or Western science. Nor is there a Chinese or American science. Because modern science deals with entities that are real, there's agreement on, say, how subatomic particles behave, or the equations needed to put a satellite into orbit."

Science is rife with debate because it's expensive or even impossible to replicate certain studies. There are camps, just like in every other endeavor. And as far as putting satellites into orbit there are six ways to Sunday.... Talk to the Space Elevator proponents. Or the Musk team or the Bezos team...

And some scientists who are more versed in their work and others who are not.

Using MRI scans to make claims about consciousness is done, by and large, by those who aren't in the main stream of MRI research, or whose method is flawed, according to their peers. But they are still out there claiming truth while promoting unsupported conclusions.

It happens in nearly all endeavors. Even among some atheists.

Therefore it's not just a problem of religion, or even of science, politics, philosophy, auto repair, engineering, or even atheism.
.

It's a problem of what happens when the human mind works outside the sphere of immediate and repeatable experience.


It's simple. There is just Consciousness. In Consciousness the Cosmos appears. We are that Consciousness. We can't find it because it is Consciousness that is looking. What you are seeking is what is trying to find it.

This is not some startling new revelation, of course. Most seekers have heard this in books, talks, etc... perhaps numerous times. People have been recognizing This since who knows when. Since time didn't begin. It's not a big deal. When seen, one might just shrug their shoulders.. Is that all it is? But it does take a load off.

The difficulty is that It can't be grasped because it is not anything that has any attribute, quality, form or duration. It just is. But It is not an it because of what was just said. Nothing to It at all. Maybe that is why there is all this religion and belief systems and paths with things to do and not to do. Putting It up on a pedestal and praying to It. People make a big deal out of It. Objectifying It. They want a process. They want something to do, to talk about. A game. Robes to wear or whatever. But this doesn't lead anywhere like a dog chasing its tail.

Where do we go when we die? Here. Where else is there to be? You may not be aware of you, but Consciousness always remains.

By the way, Atheism is a non-prophet religion.

It's simple. There is just Consciousness...
Maybe that is why there is all this religion and belief systems
and paths with things to do and not to do. Putting It up on a
pedestal and praying to It.... They want a process. They want
something to do,to talk about. A game. Robes to wear or
whatever.

I'd agree consciousness underpins reality. It's simple and
immensely profound. According to mysticism, we've been
looking for answers to the mystery of existence in the wrong
places for that reason. They're nowhere outside. But there is
a "process" to find them.

The path entails an intimacy with consciousness itself. A
heightened awareness of what enters our mind. A kind of
continuous inner listening. Along the way, comes a
dissatisfaction with the uncontrolled thought and imagery
that floods or mind. With all our wasted moments. That's
when pedestals and sacred robes cease to be enough.

"The path entails an intimacy with consciousness itself."

-- This is the source of the illusion. How does consciousness have an intimacy with consciousness? It is that consciousness. Consciousness is not something "over there" that you find or discover. If you do find something, it is a projection and not the thing itself.

There is no path to what you are.. to Reality. Reality is a clearing in the forest. Leading out from this clearing are all these paths with signs directing you "to the Reality clearing" but you are already standing in the clearing.

Tucson
Both the trees and the clearing are illusions created by mind.
They evaporate in the presence of your True Friend.

You are right there is no there.

But where is here?
Not the trees not the clearing. Both are just the dream.

Mind appears in the "Clearing" (awareness, consciousness).
The Clearing is not an objective thing observed by another objective thing.
It can't be known as such.
Each word said about Clearing only serves to obscure it.
Talking about Clearing only raises more questions.

Hi Tucson!

You wrote:

"Mind appears in the "Clearing" (awareness, consciousness).
The Clearing is not an objective thing observed by another objective thing.
It can't be known as such.
Each word said about Clearing only serves to obscure it.
Talking about Clearing only raises more questions."

I like it!

Hi Dungeness:

You wrote:

"The path entails an intimacy with consciousness itself. A
heightened awareness of what enters our mind. A kind of
continuous inner listening. Along the way, comes a
dissatisfaction with the uncontrolled thought and imagery
that floods or mind. With all our wasted moments. That's
when pedestals and sacred robes cease to be enough."

This definitely mirrors the process of spiritual meditation.

There is definitely an awareness of something far more, central, greater, visceral, powerful, as we proceed. there is a definite experience of being in an immense space, of actually being pulled and moving into a large open cathedral like space, where light pours in. But it can't be held in the mind. And yet, in stages, He captures us, and we are aware of of Him.

Words don't describe it. But the definite, repeatable inner experience, and the complete joy attendant with it, long documented in a variety of metaphorical terms, is real.

It is the deepest part of what and who we really are. Certainly, our experience of that.

This is the source of the illusion. How does consciousness have an intimacy with consciousness? Consciousness is not something "over there" that you find or discover. If you do find something, it is a projection and not the thing itself


I agree. So I was speaking loosely, notionally of consciousness. As you mention so aptly, consciousness is just, a "clearing in the woods".

But when you become aware of something, for instance, the thoughts and imagery racing through the mind, it's consciousness in action. It occurs even before you react, before you analyze or try to frame it in words, or categorize, or embellish it in any way! That awareness is a force, a power.

The "intimacy" is just an attempt to note or recognize that power that makes us "aware", or even "aware of being aware". Practically speaking it's "mindfulness". The mystics say it's the direction to search in to find the ultimate reality.

There is no path to what you are... to Reality. Reality is just a clearing in the forest. Leading out from this clearing are all these paths with signs directing you "to the Reality clearing" but you are already standing in the clearing.

If you're mindful though, you remain smack dab in the middle of the clearing looking "inward", not racing to find 'sumptin "out there", not chasing down one more path "to the Reality clearing".

This is the source of the illusion. How does consciousness have an intimacy with consciousness? Consciousness is not something "over there" that you find or discover. If you do find something, it is a projection and not the thing itself


I agree. So I was speaking loosely, notionally of consciousness. As you mention so aptly, consciousness is just, a "clearing in the woods".

But when you become aware of something, for instance, the thoughts and imagery racing through the mind, it's consciousness in action. It occurs even before you react, before you analyze or try to frame it in words, or categorize, or embellish it in any way! That awareness is a force, a power.

The "intimacy" is just an attempt to note or recognize that power that makes us "aware", or even "aware of being aware". Practically speaking it's "mindfulness". The mystics say it's the direction to search in to find the ultimate reality.

There is no path to what you are... to Reality. Reality is just a clearing in the forest. Leading out from this clearing are all these paths with signs directing you "to the Reality clearing" but you are already standing in the clearing.

If you're mindful though, you remain smack dab in the middle of the clearing looking "inward", not racing to find 'sumptin "out there", not chasing down one more path "to the Reality clearing".

Words don't describe it. But the definite, repeatable inner experience, and the complete joy attendant with it, long documented in a variety of metaphorical terms, is real.

Thanks, Spencer. May we all be "in the clearing". At a loss for words :)

Words don't describe it. But the definite, repeatable inner experience, and the complete joy attendant with it, long documented in a variety of metaphorical terms, is real.

Thanks, Spencer. May we all be "in the clearing". At a loss for words :)

"It's a problem of what happens when the human mind works outside the sphere of immediate and repeatable experience."

Oops, I'm not allowed to repeat what someone else has said, and yet others do it.

So Spencer Tepper, wtf does working outside the sphere of immediate and repeatable experience mean and why is it a problem?

Does it mean there is a problem when someone is working outside their personal pattern of behaviour, their inner programming?

Everyone, imo, is programmed including yourself and what I see in you is a rigid program of religiosity and preaching.

Hi Jen
You wrote
"Everyone, imo, is programmed including yourself and what I see in you is a rigid program of religiosity and preaching."

Could by your projection.
Here is the bedrock of my belief.
I don't know what is going on in your head.

And you don't know what's going on in mine.

When anyone tries to say" no you are wrong, this is what you are really thinking " that's prejudice and bigotry.

When religious people do it, when they claim Satan is attacking your soul, some say " That's the problem of religion. "

But what do you call it when Atheists and Agnostics do it? When they pretend they are Omniscient and claim "oh that's just your delusion" and try to label someone else's personal experience?

I call it bigotry.

Yah, that's the rule I'm absolutely rigid about.

Even atomic physics is based on rigid laws but it validates path of saints/ sant-mat.
wtf even physics validates it. wtf people are pissed off after knowing physics validated it.
wtf if these people start taking anti-depressants. wtf if anti-depressants have side effects.
wtf if side effects are not so severe.

omg you are so right vinny, no need for anti-depressants and side effects or worshiping a saint omg wtf validates physics and the path of sant mat, omg I have found the clearing in the forest, the reality of life, the understanding of why people worship someone nailed to a cross, the trees and the clearing of illusions have evaporated, omg my true friend is wtf forever and ever I am here in the space of wtf nothingness..

btw guys, just in case you are shocked by my language... have you heard that "Swearing is Good for You - The Amazing Science of Bad Language" - by Emma Byrne:

"Swearing, it turns out, is an incredibly useful part of our linguistic repertoire. Not only has some form of swearing existed since the earliest humans began to communicate, but it has been shown to reduce physical pain, help stroke victims recover their language, and encourage people to work together as a team."

"There’s great research coming out of Australia and New Zealand, which is perhaps not surprising, that says that jocular abuse, particularly swearing among friends, is a strong signal of the degree of trust that those friends share. 

One of the reasons why there’s probably this strong correlation is that swearing has such an emotional impact. You’re demonstrating that you have a sophisticated theory of mind about the person that you’re talking to, and that you have worked out where the limit is between being shocking enough to make them giggle or notice you’ve used it but not so shocking that they’ll be mortally offended. That’s a hard target to hit right in the bullseye. Using swear words appropriate for that person shows how well you know them; and how well you understand their mental model."

Spence - Can I get your email Id? I want to write to you and know you better because whatever I've read from you has touched a chord in me. Thank you.

Dungeon wrote and I thank u

"" Words don't describe it. But the definite, repeatable inner experience, and the complete joy attendant with it, long documented in a variety of metaphorical terms, is real. ""

Just listening to the Sweet Sweet Sound ( even at the weak first day ) makes this happening and
so much more

Religions -at best- (pranayama) seek energy in the lower chakras, under our eyes
where God is NOT

Why have humans 7 chakras ?


777

-

Every religion does it.

Ever religion claims not to do it.

What is it?

Give out a doctrine and claim it is undisputed truth.

When you believe It you become a religious fanatic.

Humans are desperate to believe because they've always done it.

As children we believe our parents because they appear to have all the answers.

Then we believe our teachers.

We are in the habit of believing.

So when a religion comes along, we get taken in.

Why?

Because they claim to know.

Jehovah's witnesses for instance have a book which tells them the truth about all other religions so they can recite it to the objectors.

The book tells them what Sikhism really is, what islam really is etc.

Its easy to preach to the converted, as they already believe.

They are suckers for more doctrine.

Tell them to jump and they just ask "how high"

Its how the mind works.

Salespeople know this. There is a sales strategy of getting them to say yes.

Once they say yes six times, they will most likely continue.

Religion does the same.

Get them in and they will continue.

What is more is, they will not realize they are indoctrinated.

It will feel like it is the truth, not indoctrination.

In "the path of the masters" Dr Johnson explains exactly why all known religions are false. They no longer have a living master. So rituals prevail.

This all appears to be true, so the follower agrees.

His faith gets strengthened.

He hears stories of the master coming to save his disciples at the time of death.

The faith grows even stronger.

Now he will believe anything.

He has collected his evidence. He now KNOWS he is on the one true path.

Regardless of the results.

Results don't matter anymore.

Its just a matter of waiting until Godot comes just like in Samuel Becketts play "Waiting for Godot"

How long will you wait till you realise he ain't coming

Until you die.

You will die believing.

All die hard believers die believing.

Nobody can convince the die hard believer and why bother?

Because

A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.

Everyone collects beliefs since birth.
But they are called facts.

Nobody says "I believe"

They say "I know"

They believe their belief is a knowing.

Even if they realise the truth, and leave a religion, they will just seek the next one, perhaps even athiesm. That can also be made into a religion.

The soft stance says "I don't know"

Only that cannot be made into a religion.

"But now that I've left behind my true-believing days, I'm aware that what I was doing was selectively choosing evidence for commonalities between mystical beliefs, because actually Christian mystics have a very different take on what God is like than, say, Sikh mystics or Islamic mystics" - Brian

All religions selectively quote from other religions to preach to the converted.

Exactly like salespeople convince you to buy by using tricks of the trade.

Religion has its own tricks.

They are after more than your money.

They want your soul. If you have one. If not they will settle for you sacrificing the rest of your life.

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