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October 16, 2017

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Big Sure,....The room, i.e. Auditorium looked very large to me, as I looked around. I don’t know how many people it holds, but those in the know can certainly verify how many. It was packed when I attended. But, I could be wrong about how many were there. I just did a quick calculation, counting 25 seats accross, on each side of the Isle, wich would be 50 accross, and estimsted 50 rows front to back. I could have largly over estimated. If do, I apologize for an honest mistake, but what difference does it make how many were there? There were still a mixed Sudience of both men and women, some married, some with their friends, and some singles.

As I said, my wife was not with me in that particular meeting, which I am glad, because knowing her, she would have gotten up, and walked out! ( she would have embarressed me further) . It was an uncomfortable situation, especially, witnessing so many in the audience chuckling and laughing, at the man being embarressed by God In Human Form.

Gurinder must have known the man, because he called him a Doctor. When he was complaining about the food choices being served, he was saying that when Charan was there, Papais were served in open plates on each table, and he missed having Papais, because he liked them, and they were nutritious and healthy. Gurinder said as a Doctor, he must know, or some thing of the sort. But Gurinder obviously knew him, and might have taken advantage of what he said to him. Had he not mentioned the man’s wife's butt, then followed by the 69, we might have thought Gurinder was addressing one of his Homosexual Initiates.

As for my time there, I stayed 2 nights, believe me, that was MORE than enough, to get the enlightenment I needed to bring me back to my senses!!

I was MUCH more empressed, by my visits to the Sikh Golden Temple. I walked in there, looking like an ugly American, and no one searched me, or confiscated my Cell phones or cameras, or searched my Back Pack, nor questioned my Nationality, Religion, nor blocked or barred me from visiting any part of the Temple I felt like looking at.

I even toured the Free Langar asking questions as I walked all over, watching how the Rotties were made, and the food cooked in the large pots. I drank Chai Tea, and enjoyed Prashad, as I tearfully walked thru the lines of Pilgrims sitting together, on the floor, with out separation of Caste, Creed, Gender, Nationality or Religeon, all being served lovingly, by Sevadors, like I expected to see at the Dera, but didn’t.

I even walked right in to the top of tne Golden Temple and took photos and videos of the Gurus reading the Sacred Granth! Not a single person harressed me.

I did tour India for 12 extra days, but I traveled exactly as I stated to get to the Dera. I could have flown to Amritsar to get to the Dera, but I wanted o experience the original way most Satsangis go there, which is by Train from New Delhi.

Jim

Hi Jim!

Appreciate what you say. However, I'm very much against Censorship of any kind. Let it all hang out.

What each of us writes comes from inside. It's all "ours" to own.

No one wants to be confronted with an alternative perspective. And, anyway, as you know, there is Spirituality, the actual physical properties of Shabd, and then there is the human concept, slanted for self interest. Satsangis and non-Satsangis, sharing their opinions inadvertently create a religion.

Reading the anti - RSSB comments I've learned much about a new religion called by the posters here "RSSB" I knew nothing about before, as a practicing initiate for just about 39 years.

They are not without merit.

Jim shy do you keep say sevadors....is this some spanish?
They are sewadars.

I was Queued in line, right behind the Joker waiting to ask my Spiritual question, which I felt was much more important that a food and 69 discussion. But I never got the chance,

I wanted to ask Gurinder why Charan Singh , when he appeared to me, in full view, talked to me, addressed my personal physical issue, spoke audabally to me, and even put his hand on my shoulder, and called me Brother, why his Radiant Form was formless!

The first Q & A I attended, the big one, where young people were coming to the Mic begging for Grace and Initiation, one begged Gurinder to show him his Radiant Form.

Gurinder said,....”The Radiant Form is formless.”

I wanted him to tell me why Charan's Radiant Form was formless.

The happiest people I witnessed while at the Dera, was one afternoon, I went to the Cafateria to fill my water bottle with filtered water, and saw 4-5 men huddled around a plastic container of powdered Coffee and sugar, and were passing aound their metal cups to mix their Private stash of Coffee, like they were being handed Prashad from God!

I never saw ANY Coffee in tne Cafeteria, at any time. The choices were Tea Bags, or Hot and cold Water.

I did see a very small contsiner of powdered Coffee at Tea time in the Garden the 2nd day. I jumped on that Coffee Jar like having a Mirage in the Desert, because I had not seen Coffee for days!

Jim

Hi Jim!

You wrote "I wanted to ask Gurinder why Charan Singh , when he appeared to me, in full view, talked to me, addressed my personal physical issue, spoke audabally to me, and even put his hand on my shoulder, and called me Brother, why his Radiant Form was formless!"

Same thing happened to me! Only it was when I was 16, in 1974 in a vivid dream. And it wasn't Maharaji. It was Gurindar!

So when, after being an initiate of Maharaji for several years, I finally saw Gurindar in 1991, there were no questions for me.

If I had not had that experience, or if I had forgotten it, naturally all the questions would arise as they do from the mind all the time.

So I'm very sympathetic when folks are trying to figure stuff out in the dark, using only their wits alone. I actually admire that, even when it leads folks to go the wrong way. They are still trying their very best to get to the truth.

Spencer wrote "So when, after being an initiate of Maharaji for several years, I finally saw Gurindar in 1991, there were no questions for me."

There were no questions for you, simply based on that experience? :) I, personally, find that baffling.

Spencer "They are still trying their very best to get to the truth."

Yes, keep trying your best to get to the "truth" people. Don't stop questioning.

I mean, look, just one simple question; "how many other people from how many different, theologically contradictory, paths and religions have had similar experiences? What does this infer about the relative "truth" between those theologies & paths? What is really going on here?"

Okay, that's three questions, but look, already falsehood has been destroyed.

Never stop asking questions.

Hi Manjit

We are all moving through our conditioning and experience.

At some point questions need answers. If you form good questions, that's great. But they must be testable against your own criteria. Anyone else 's criteria can only be for educational purposes.

Once you have established your own criteria, then you engage in a fair effort to construct the test. Anything worth knowing will take some effort to test properly and rule out both false positives and false negatives.

If you get no results, you have a decision. Is the answer no? Or does the experiment require more rigor?

That decision can't be proven. You do the best you can.

If you get some results, you have something new to consider.

But if you abandoned the experiment years ago, why dwell on it? You should have moved on to other questions and other tests years ago.

Spencer "You should have moved on to other questions and other tests years ago."

Well, if you're talking to me, yes, I did "move on" many years ago. Though I have no issues with people projecting onto me all kinds of secret fascination or obsession with RS, based on a few posts of mine, shooting the breeze rather casually imo, on forums or blogs like these (of course merely interjecting slightly alternative ways of thinking about things than the same ol' same ol' unexamined dogma and doctrine usually spouted :). Eh, have at it!

Yes, moving on has been an incredibly transformative and reality shattering experience for me.

I read of the ecstasies,visions, miracles and synchronicities here and think, "meh". Honestly, asides from being interesting anecdotes, they really get quite boring in experience (and, honestly Spencer, the amount of these kind of phenomena in my life since I broke free of the conceptual noose of RS type dogma & cosmology is truly mind boggling and over-whelming. The experiences recounted here seem familiar to me, they remind me of my time as a follower. I also cannot help but know, from my own personal experience, that in retrospect those experiences were to be a trickle before the flood that occurred a few years after I broke "free" (:-) from RSSB. Retro-cognition (like your experience with Gurinder), pre-cognition, telepathy, synchronicities etc in an endless torrent. Seriously! To be quite honest, it's quite boring really.

So, that is when seeking for "truth" begins. What are these experiences, who else is having them, what are the mechanics behind them, what are the potential explanations and implications for the nature of our reality etc. A whole different reality emerges, one that is lived, and one that cannot be contained in these childish & unsophisticated theologies and cosmologies with self-appointed gate-keepers to the truth of our very own existence

But, really, this is way beyond the way of dependency on cults, gurus, concepts, theology and dogma etc....

Hi Manjit

One distinction I see between your experience and mine is that my experience has taught me not to judge the experience of anyone else.

If what you say is true for you, then who knows what you will find tomorrow?

Because of that I don't try to mind read anyone else's experience at all, and when I see others trying to mind read or excuse or denigrate the experiences of others, it strikes me as a form of bullying.

So then I ask "Can you read someone else's mind?" No?

Then that person is in no place to attempt to evaluate the other person's experience. To do so they must actually confuse their own experience for the other's. They must dismiss anything that differs from their own experience as delusional and inferior.

They try to raise their experience above those things they actually have no exposure to.

But I get it.

People who have a broader range of experience are actually humbled because they realize there is actually much more there that they still don't know.

But kids in the sandbox think the world is that sandbox and something must be wrong with the children who have outgrown it.

Spend all your time discovering what you have learned for yourself. Save your breath for the truths you have found, and do not waste it trying to invalidate the experiences of others.

That's what a broader experience has done to me.

Hi Spencer. You write "One distinction I see between your experience and mine is that my experience has taught me not to judge the experience of anyone else."

That is interesting, because only yesterday I was reading a post of yours about how sad it is that "drunken prisoners" can claim they are free, all the while obviously inferring you know they are not because you know what real bondage and freedom is?

What you're doing here, Spencer, is making comments based on the most superficial of appearances and with absolutely zero self-examination. That's a dangerous thing to do with such complex and nuanced topics.

You see, the reality here is this, there is more humility & non-judgement in my posts than there ever can be in yours - and I don't even need to be vague, ambiguous, dodge, evade & put on a display of faux humility for that to become apparent.

The non judgement, complete & utter "humility" (I am not a special "chosen" one!) & lack of fundamentalist conviction in a set of beliefs (genuine, not that of the superficial appearance of humility that is renowned in RS followers and gurus, for eg.!) is writ large & clear throughout every single one of my posts - but in the content, not in appearance. It takes a clear mind to notice this, however, not one stuck in defence of dogma & self-identity mode!

Cheers,

Manjit

Manjit will be back on email?
Manjit i am thinking for long now... Can you write up to 10 best of the best of your books?( yoga,meditation,etc

Manjit, I get bored of synchroncities too though sometimes they can be entertaining. I really wonder how common they are. What do you think?

Hi Manjit

You wrote

"You see, the reality here is this, there is more humility & non-judgement in my posts than there ever can be in yours -"

You don't have to be. You can boast at much as you like. If you have something positive to boast about it can be helpful to others.

Osho Robbins writes,....”A short time in Beas with the current master and his whole spiritual path is finished. He is now labelled an "Exer" and a defector of the faith.

He would have been better of not going then he could have continued in his delusion that Gurinder was the correct successor and not have to deal with the difficulty of Gurinder using words like Butt and 69.

Two words and his lifelong faith is over.

fuck me! ”

Me: my Spiritual Path is far from over. But it certainly has made a detour. Actually, I am really, really, greatful, I was able to travel to the Dera and see, hear, smell, taste, and experience for my self.

I am greatful to all who motvated me, and helped me to travel there. I was really worried about not being able to find enough toilets because of my Prostate problem. I Expected to see Port O Potties, or Out Houses, but had one in my room I didn’t need to share,

But, sittng in Sat Sang listening to 6 males and 3 females take turns singing Hindi Shabds to Gurinder for an hour or more, who was sitting on the Gaddi looking bored and playing with his mustache, curling it, and pulling it out of his mouth. He would scan the thousands in the large Audience, mostly all sitting on the floor, givng Dristi, as they in turn gave Darshan to him on the huge Big Screen Monitors.

By the time he even started taking questions, I was thinking about how to find a toilet, because of my Prostate problems.

By the time it ended, I was MORE than ready,....and rushed out to try and find my Wife, because I had the only key to our room. She finally came out, after I got on, and off, a Golf Cart twice waiting for her.

Gurinder looked like he would have rather been ANY where else, than sitting up on the Gaddi being observed like some Circus animal, or Freak of Nature, ....or ..........God Man, that he surly knows he is none of the above.

Nothing gives Justice other than BEING there, AT the Dera, to see, and feel for one’s self the Vibrations happening there.

It is dfferent than when Gurinder is visiting other countries and satellite Sangats.

Looking at him suffering, sitting on the Gaddi, I felt more like God then him, because I knew I had the Free Will to get out of there soon, and he is stuck until he either dies, or quits in disgust!

Getting on to one of the two Golf Carts to get a ride back to Hostel 6 was another experience, in itself! There were only two Golf Carts, one had 4 seats, and the other two. The area was ropped off where they pulled in to pick up old Seniors ( like me who couldn’t walk with out peeing them selves,...or walk with out help.)

Before the Golf Carts arrived to the ropped off area, people coming out of Sat Sang kept crushing the rope area, not allowing room for the Golf Carts to pull in. Sevadors would keep trying to clear the area, and when the Golf Cart did pull in, 100 people would rush the Cart, trying to climb on, and it only held 12 on the big one, and 6-8 on the small one. Fights almost erupted
with pushing and pulling, the Sevadors pulling able looking younger people off that had climbed on,.....! It should have been videoed for the next RSSB Love Video.

Question for ALL?

1) should I have never shared my experiences here, or on my Face book site, and remained silent, taking it all to my Crematory Urn with me?
2) or, .....should I feel worse than Judas for my reporting, and should I go hang my self as he did?

Truthfully, I am glad I fnally got to visit the Dera and India, because those are places I won’t pray to reincarnate to, if I don’t get free from Charausi this time.

My advice to ALL INDIANS: Get your Applications in for U.S. Visas As soon as possible, and start your Immigration process to apply for American Citizenship!!

Don’t worry, Demcrats will recalim the White House again, sooner or later, and it will be easier to become Americans.

Gurinder should lead the way, and apply first! He could take over Ishwar Puri’s Wisconson Ashram.

Jim.

Attention Young Indians who want real Freedom:

Follow the example of an intelligent young Indian Male who became an Amercan Citzen and is working and promoting making Amerca great Again!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D%27Souza

Jim

Miracles are all around us. But where I come from the bloods, crips, ese-chicanos, Asian, & Samoan gangsters only brought us death to see.

So as a seeker I sought Charan Singh not seeking a mere miracle, then found out that he had already passed away in 1990 in my eight grade year. Thus, I unwittingly found Baba Gurinder Singh as they call him today.

Before, followed a self proclaimed saint called Sant Rajinder Singh, & gave him a footstool and sent the few food stamps I had left over and some prized hood possessions; silver, some trinkets, etc along with the footstool I found. Just to see if all walks of life WERE indeed accepted into this Sant Mat path. I remember reading a story from one of Rajinder's sewadars about an Egyptian boy who was able to bow an Ancient Egyptian god -written by a Mr Scott.

So when it finally came time to personally go see Baba Gurinder Singh I had in my mind too on trying and bow Him. I was an ex-gang leader and bowed many armed with guns & the intent to kill. In hindsight though, I can recollect in the teachings of Sawan, Jagat, & Charan Singh; all agreed that sharing inner experience could lead to spiritual blockages. But in this I think I can & must, must, must share with thee: I could NOT bow Baba Gurinder Singh Ji! `/

Karim Gurinder doesn't want you to bow before him he wants you to walk shoulder to shoulder with him. A friend.

I was speed reading & responding to comments the other day, so I thought I would respond a bit more in depth today:

Spencer wrote: "One distinction I see between your experience and mine is that my experience has taught me not to judge the experience of anyone else."

This is a fantastic projection and untruth! There is no absolutely no element of judgement in my posts, no higher or lower, no chosen ones and those doomed to eternal transmigration etc. There is absolutely zero element of intention or motivation in my posts to judge anyone specifically,or to convince anyone of anything. There is absolutely zero element of me thinking I know the absolute "truth" or that I am somehow more wiser or correct than anyone else, or that I am somehow more better off than anyone else because of my experiences or knowledge. There is absolutely no element of beliefs, full stop.

The only reason I post, occasionally, as I generally find this all very tiresome, is out of a sense of duty (perhaps mistaken, but we must all answer to ourselves) to share my experiences & understandings, provide lesser-known information & perspectives in a public space for people to read and ponder over for themselves, to do with it what they will. Choice. The people I interact with on here and RSS forum I consider as "foils" to my viewpoint, so that the information , for OTHERS to evaluate, gets out there. I believe a very small percentage of people posting here are really interested in opening their mind, questioning their own psychology or views, and that the only possible value from these discussions is for getting ideas and perspectives "out there" for silent readers to digest. I know for a fact Dave's Radhasoamistudies forum was a very important breeding ground of ideas for me, when I never posted there. I am merely paying that back. All this RS dogma & doctrine that gets posted here, kind of pointless I find. That's like trying to tell somebody ABCs when they're in the middle of reading a literary classic. THAT is trying to judge people, what else can the inanity of repeating ABCs to people who already know it be?

So anyway, there's an insight into my mentality and motivation in posting here. All this projection of judging and what not, it should be obvious from the actual CONTENT of my posts, over 20 years here and RSS forum, that is an utterly absurd allegation (and, ironically, judgement!)....as is Spencer's suggestion that I, in my sandbox, think I understand all reality, and that Spencer's "broader experience" has made him more humble etc. As I suggest repeatedly, appearances can be deceiving and content is sometimes lost. Examining the content of Spencer's posts, as opposed to me, it should become clearer who is judging, who has genuine humility, who has "broader" experience and who thinks their sandbox is the entire reality! The content really needs to be pondered over, mind.....appearances can be deceiving! Who has beliefs (ahh, the arrogance of believing in your beliefs! :), and who doesn't?

D.r. - Hello! Yes, I believe Synchronicity are extremely common with all those who get involved any kind of consciousness/reality investigations! Over the past 15+ years I've been exposed to a wide array of contexts for such experiences (podcasts, books, online articles, forums etc).

On a personal level, I was sceptical and questioned my own synchnronicities for years, thinking chance & psychological pareidolia could explain them (I had dozens over the years, many involving RSSB gurus). Once free from any conceptual or theological restrictions, delving deeper into the way of being that seemingly helps in generating such experiences, I soon encountered what I, personally, consider quite compelling evidence that something strange that is inexplicable by our current scientific understanding - synchronicity "clusters". Constantly doubting my experiences, the experiences seemed to ramp themselves up, raising their game so to speak. I would encounter up to 6 or 7 synchronicities around the same focal point or topic, within a very short period of time (from minutes up to 24 hours), completely unconnected, from a physical causality perspective, yet profoundly connected in MEANING. Eventually, I realised to posit a mundane physical explanation was more absurd than to accept weird shit is going on!! :)

Just randomly speculating from the top of my head, what these phenomena tell us, on a very personal level, as this cannot be proved on a scientific materialist level, is that there is some sort of profound connection between our minds and the universe "out there". Perhaps they are different aspects or manifestations of one undivided whole, perhaps?

Anyway, one thing I have personally learned, is that the CONTENT of these synchronicities is almost entirely irrelevant. They seem to reflect whatever beliefs one has back to you, so for a Christian, they will encounter Christian synchronicities, for a RS follower they will have synchronicities around RS related things and for a secular or atheist, they will encounter synchronicities of a different, usually more random & non-contextualised sort etc

I recommend reading this book, which I read some years after I had come to a similar conclusion. I feel the author sways a little too much towards a materialist paradigm, but none the less this is a important book on the topic, and underlies the lie that these synchronicities prove anything about the content (for eg. RS gurus) of the synchronicities. And yes, Dr Surprise is his wonderfully appropriate name!:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Synchronicity-Coincidence-Change-Unlocking-Your/dp/1601631839

There is so much more to be said, but who has the time (and what's the point ;)

Cheers!

Manjit will be back on email?
Manjit i am thinking for long now... Can you write up to 10 best of the best of your books?( yoga,meditation,etc

hello Jim,

So far you have given all your negative experiences visiting the dera beas.
Was there also anything positive about it ?
If yes, would you like to share those points as well ?

Hi Jim!

When I saw Gurindar I saw the return of Jesus Christ returned for more of His Sheep.

I saw the Creator, filled with love, patience and persistence in His call for our return, perfectly removing all our mental detritus that blocks our way.

I saw God walk up the dias, and in perfect calm, sit before His creation. Yes, He is our slave. And we will never let Him go.


If you can see divinity in a flower, that is to your credit. Your own soul gives you rest.

What you see Jim, is always your projection. May you see God again.

"His lips drink water. But his heart drinks wine."
e. e. Cummings

Hi Manjit

You wrote

"I, personally, consider quite compelling evidence that something strange that is inexplicable by our current scientific understanding - synchronicity "clusters". Constantly doubting my experiences, the experiences seemed to ramp themselves up, raising their game so to speak. I would encounter up to 6 or 7 synchronicities around the same focal point or topic, within a very short period of time (from minutes up to 24 hours), completely unconnected, from a physical causality perspective, yet profoundly connected in MEANING. Eventually, I realised to posit a mundane physical explanation was more absurd than to accept weird shit is going on!! :)"

This is helpful. We can read your personal experience and try to understand it conceptually or in relation to our own.

You gained this by first leaving behind your beliefs in Sant Mat.

That was also part of your experience. And it is to be honored. It's part of your personal discovery of deeper truths.

It isn't evidence about Sant Mat, nor does it qualify you to judge others ' different experiences of the path.

"The opposite of one truth isn't false. It may just be another truth."
-Niels Bohr
(the physicist who discovered the design of the atom).

To Cluster,.....
For me, there was not nearly enough positive things to report, but I will try t think of some.

1) Cleanliness of the entire city. After touring India for 8 days prior to the Dera, it was real noticeable as soon as we entered the Dera gates.
2) Biggest Highlight for me, was peering thru the locked Gate, and seeing a clear, unobstructed view of the great Master’s Satsanghar Building. I sure would have liked to go inside and take a tour, but I have heard that Gurinder has closed it down because people worship it. But looking at Monuments that bring to memory of Saints of the past is not considered worship for me, at least. Buddhsts, Hindus and and Christians all have their Relics and Edifices that remind them of what they might have read in Scriptures, or heard of.
3) meeting Indian Satsangis out side the hostel 6 area when I walked out side and being greeted with Radhasoami and folded hands, as if they saw me as a Brother ,rather than a privileged Westerner as compared to how the they looked at me when I was riding on the Golf Cart to get back from Sat Sang to Hostel 6. With out a map, I was lost most of the time, as soon as soon as I walked out side the Gate of Hostel 6.
4) Access to free filtered water in the Cafateria to refill our water bottles.
5) Powdered Coffee, cookies and crackers at Afternoon Tea in the Garden. Charan used to join the Westeners for Tea some times, I was told.
6) Sunny weather, no rain.
7) “Number ONE High Point was seeing my Taxi Driver show up out side the Gate to pick us up.

I have “Promoted “ RSSB for the last 27 years, recommending any interested seekers where to find a Living Master and apply for Initiation. After visitng the present Dera, and seeing for my self, I will no longer be able to promote RSSB with a good conscious.

I have removed the posts on my blog that have attracted many Seekers to ask me for referrals where to send them to seek Initiation in to the Sant Mat Path.

Jim

:Quoting George:
"Karim Gurinder doesn't want you to bow before him he wants you to walk shoulder to shoulder with him. A friend."

Radha Soami bigger brother, what you say here sounds very good. But I did not mean that.

You see, I took to this path as a warrior does. I had to seek and visit many cults before finding my True Guru.

Each cult had a different leader, and some places wouldn't even allow people to leave (Buddhist Temples, Synagogues or Congregations, Mosques, Churches, Gurdwaras, Scientologists and even a Mandir). I found one particular cult with a man who had bowed one of the Catholic Popes (long hidding that evidence since the guy's mysterious death). This guy even bowed Kirpal Singh's head -for he was so powerful & I barely escaped the warriors from his camp (cult) before stumbling upon another self proclaimed named Rajinder.

So what I meant, is that among all the proclaimed Great Souls, GIHF (what-so-have-you), or a human who's actually One with Allah (God - En inglés).. I only found such a one in that of Shri Gurinder Singh Ji Dhillon (Baba Ji).

The rest are all charlatans.

..Gurinder Singh Dhillon being the last Guru I sought..

Brooke

My wife remembers 1947 when she wasburned alive by intruders during the cruel separation of India / Pakistan

Her then Master Maharaji Sawan Singh JI , then came to her , enveloped her in His Light and carried her out

I guess Gurinders stephmother and her maid had the same delightful experience
Plus there is the exaltic Sound


777


Jim repeated
""" So, don’t try to change the meaning of what Gurinder had in his head of an image, that formed the words of a 69 that came out of his mouth thru his tongue """

Jim please reread my King Akbar comment
Sex has no importance more in Sant Mat
than When you want to ascend through the hole at the ceiling of the pool; . .
it's better not to have the floor water exits , wide open

This is typical western hypocrisy & hystery we must unlearn
like so many other mêmes

777

http://eternaloasisofsouls.blogspot.com

Jim


Dear Jim said >>> "It didn’t take long for me to see his human features,""

I really almost wished that it had been Gurinder who has given you the advise to take aspirine instead of Charan in your revelation

Then after "what you experienced inside (but+69) would not had counted very much .

I read now your blog of today and believe that you think in a kind of panic : "Did I again err, again after so many Jimmy Swaggert deceptions.

You experienced the 'aspirin' incident as very real and authentic and I also think that because
seeing the fantastic form of Charan happens not the first meditation but these kind of revelations happen when HE wants that
Think at the Not believing Thomas from the Bible

He gives just what helped you that day with a plus : . . You cannot forget !

Perhaps you had other of such occassions .

Apart from our rssb educations around meditations , at least
THIS is something to hold to.

Remember that this Path is supposed to be LOVE in action and Charan gave you that.

HE HIMSELF said, we don't need to consider Him as GIHF or even to love Him
Then he said see me as a friend or equivalent
Personelly I think : don t see his successor as an ennemy >> could be a little obstructive . . . but I m not sure

Anyway : when you do the Love for Charan Bakhti , just avoid the Gurinder opposition
It is not important for You
You have your Love plus the 5 solid words that really work > as St Paul said "Pray without stopping"

Perhaps You know that catholics claim that perfect Love for GOD at the time of Death brengs people straight to heaven

In Sant Mat this is the same
Love the Lion Saint that initiated You
More is not needed, . . try to work on that

I competely sympathise with your sentiments

I'm sure however that all this happened with purposes
and I see it in the sphere of the Bardo Todol
where Bodisattwas try to tear the defund in thousand of holes
in the chakra tunnels under them are caffee , heroine , movies, gaming, and many forms of sex.
Try to see: they are all giant magnets to distract the Jevaa from the Light at the end of the tunnel

Except for Those blessed ones who developed Love for that Light under the Guidance of a perfect Saint
( is mentioned exactly in the middle of the book )
Those Jeevas ( it says ) dont need to listen to the 3 days during recitations of the book, . . They go straight into the Light

LOVE does it all
and the Bardo speaks about the entrance of the astral "heaven" , . . . not even of the 7th spiritual heaven, The aim of Rssb Saints

Concerning Gurinder, : if he makes mistakes ( i don t believe this was )
GOD Himself made them with a purpose ! ! !
Gurinder just doesn't want to give up this difficult task - Nobody knows how it works but
Millions and me too see his Light but
not Him when he looks in the mirror

He is the precious beloved of HIS and YOUR Satguru


777

777: "Remember that this Path is supposed to be LOVE in action and Charan gave you that."

No, not Charan, no-one gives us love, we do this ourselves, we see what we want to see, we believe that we are being saved and will go to a magical place called Sach Khand and we believe that the guru is our saviour. People are so desperate to find salvation and are so scared of death they believe in all sorts of religious nonsense. Even those who are seeing through the fake guru Gurinder will still then cling to Charan because of their insecurity and even cling to their previous Christian religion. Charan was no better than Gurinder, I was not impressed at all by either of them. These gurus are just playing a game and people need to wake up. Its wonderful to see through the mirage and to become more aware of one's own sovereign self and experience life as it is without fear and desperate clinging.

>Charan was no better than Gurinder
Yes, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that IF one sees through GSD, then the entire lineage can no longer be believed in. It is largely one family, after all.
My problem is that the teachings still ring true -- but I can't find any shabad master that doesn't have roots in Agra/RS. Perhaps there isn't one!

I've heard Satsangis say 'If this isn't the path, what is?' For me, these ARE the most comprehensive and detailed teachings anywhere.

To Brooke, ........after I got home, and reminisced about my feelings, and read the comments here, by the posters, obviously, I took inventory of my own belief system, that has had me hooked, since I read The Path of The Masters Book in the late 80s.

If Dr. Julian Johnson had not had such a close Resume as my own, and if the book had been written by a non Christian, it would not have had such a profound effect on me. I had such Dejavu reading the Book, that I almost remembered WRITING it!! Jhnson died in April 1939 and I was born in Feb. 1942. So, deep down,....altho way deep down, I have always toyed with the idea that I may have been a Sawan Singh Initiate, and had been to he Dera in my past life, so I was really looking to capture a Dejavu experience, when I finally got to vsit the Dera.

But,......it never happened. In fact, I had no Dejavu any where in India, what so ever.

But the Sychronicities of how I was initited by Chran Singh, plus his Western Rep. who initiated me by Proxy for Charan, also had a very large imprint on me, as he, i.e. Dr. Roland de Vries , was also a Seminary trained Th.D. as I was, and we bonded immediately.. He made me feel very comfortable, about Sant Mat. I never felt I was abandoning my Christian beliefs, or loyalty at all. In fact, Charan always reinforced that, when he never claimed to be either God, or any one’s Savior. He also said, many times, that Sant Mat was not a religeon, and Initiates never had to leave their religions to be initiated in Sant Mat.

I took him at his word, that the Path of Sant Mat is MEDITATION, and is how I have practiced it since I was initiated. He always told the Dera Groupies to make their own bodies their Dera, which I have tried to do, so never became dependent on his physical form, nor Gurinder’s physical form.

So, considering I have never been attached to either the Dera or Gurinder, I have no problem detaching from either of them, completely. My basic Roots are still Christian Theology, as it has always been, which Sant Mat has served to connect the missing dots I was missing in Christianity, considering, I had never met Jesus in the physical, so would never recognise him if he met me at death. But I have met Charan, and will recognise him, in the Astral, as I already have, and I really have never had, nor need, any relationship with Gurinder.

I am not his Judge. But his own desciples will have to discern their own relationship with him. He has many, so he has as many Judges as he has Disciples!

Many love him, some see his radiant form inside, they say. Yet, Gurinder just said his radiant form is formless, so if I was one of his Desciples who saw him inside, I would be confused as to just what I saw.

I know what I saw, when Charan visited me inside. I saw his Astral Form, where he obviously has access to, and where I met him.

Jim

-

-
Hi JIm

You were so glad your wife wasn't in that room

May I ask if you told her
what happened?


77

-

Hi Jim

If you are no longer promoting RSSB among, or proselytizing in Gurindar's name; if you no longer believe you are the incarnation of Julian Johnson; if you have begun to believe that whatever divinity there is is in you, then your visit to Dera achieved its miracle.


Brooke you say "For me, these ARE the most comprehensive and detailed teachings anywhere."

Yes, but Gurinder has changed the teachings, he says:

He has no special powers; he is not coming at your death; this is not the only path; he is not perfect; there are no regions, there is only the ONE; meditation will not get you there; there is no 'there' to get to.

These are not the teachings I learned 40+ years ago. The whole attraction, for me, was that the Master would appear at my death and guide me through the inner regions. If I had followed the principles of the path and made sufficient advancement in meditation I would then not have to be reborn and could continue to the highest region Sach Khand. Why has Gurinder changed the teachings from what Sawan and Charan taught? Its fascinating that so many people are still being initiated. It does not seem like a spiritual path any more, its more like a religious charitable institution.

Gurinder did not changed teachings.

Spencer writes to Jim.......

“If you are no longer promoting RSSB among, or proselytizing in Gurinder's name......”

Me: proselytizing? People who have read my blog or my posts on Internet forums, obviously ALWAYS ask me for my opinion and referral of WHO the Living Master is, and HOW they may contact him to apply for initiation.

In the past, I usually have never referred any one to ANY particular Master, but I mentioned the accessable English speaking Masters who were, initiating seekers in to the Path of The Masters, or Sant Mat.

Would you call that proselytizing?

I have always promoted Sant Mat, since I was initiated, and obviously, promoted RSSB books.

Have you ever, or do you still promote Sant Mat or share with seekers interested in spirituality that you are a Charan Initiate and RSSB in India has a Web site that promotes all their Books, Videos, and locations of their Sat Sang Centers?

Would you call that promoting, or proselytizing?

As an initiate, if any one ever recognizes enough Sant Mat spirituality in you to ask you who your Master is, do you refer them to Rajinder, Ishwar, or Gurinder, or Soami Bagh Agra group?

Truthfully, in my 27 years as an RSSB Initiate, I have never met one single Initiate that kept the fact they were an Initiate secret, and were more than happy, and ready, to hype their Master over any other, in any other lineage, and promote that Master.

Why are you any different? Answer : You aren’t, other wise, you wouldn’t be here promoting Sant Mat. ( or at least, defending Gurinder, if not promoting him. )

I always keep an open mind, and am ready to change my mind about any preconceived belief, as I get new Revelations. So, if I see, experience, hear about, read, ANY new earth shattering information regarding Gurinder’s Spiritual Power to transform lost souls to The Kingdom Within, or become convinced in my heart that only HE holds the Key to Knowledge of how to enter, than I will refer him as a Spiritual Master.

Meanwhile, as I said, I no longer have confidence enough in ANY present so called Living Masters to refer ANY seeker to apply for Initiation.

Before I refer any one to any Preacher, I use the Apostle Paul’s criteria of how to test a Preacher, when he said,.....”And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.” ( 1 Corinthians 2:4 )

Jim

-


And Jim

Did you tell Her?

777

-

I don't find the teachings of Sant Mat or RSSB the most comprehensive out there. Paramahansa Yogananda's teachings, for me, represent the highest and most comprehensive. By a long shot. It seems to me that the gurus in RSSB are playing around with Astral travelling for the most part. There isn't really much about God in it. Though the word "Divine" is bandied about quite a bit. A real guru is no light matter according to the teachings of Hinduism. A real sat guru is very rare indeed. This might explain why perhaps the originator of the Beas lineage might have been ok but the ones that came afterwards are more like an institution.

Manjit, I concur with everything you say about synchronicities. I would add that for me they don't have much to do with any particular religious leanings, though I think that can factor into them. For me, they are mostly mundane junk thoughts I have floating around in my mind that show up later, mainly in the form of words, less concept.

What I don't like is deja vu or precognition, because whenever I have this it comes with a haunting feeling and always makes me aware of my mortality. A little less of that, please God.

I was informed by Vedic astrologer that I would live to the age of 83. Now, to live that long is actually quite a good age to go out I think. But I speak as a person of 37 years of age. My lifestyle has been anything but healthy for about 20 years. So to think I would live as long as my 80s is really quite a surprise. But the downside of knowing the future like this is that it can bring about anxiety. My advice, if you don't want to know, do not see a Vedic astrologer that is known for their accuracy.

Hi Jim!
I owe you an apology.

Your writings are sincere and sweet. Sometimes, though, we get kicked to remind us to stand on our own two legs. The potter beats the clay from the outside while supporting from within. And what is within is everything. If you reject the whole world, even the Masters outside, but accept that perfection within yourself, and the Master you find there, then it seems to me you have succeeded.

I don't promote Sant Mat to anyone. I don't hide it. My colleagues at work know I'm a Satsangi. I'm not proud of it. I can't live without it. I was brought to the path, I was fed, I was saved. Nothing to be proud of.

No one I know is interested in religion. And if they are they are dogmatic about their current beliefs. My own dad used to say "I'm not going to take up His time with my issues."

It's just a personal choice, and a personal lifestyle.

Hi Jim

Before I refer any one to any Preacher, I use the Apostle Paul’s criteria of how to test a Preacher, when he said,.....”And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power.” ( 1 Corinthians 2:4 )

Yes, that's what happened when I saw Gurindar. So it must be an internal experience He gives or withholds, based on our needs at the time. Internal, as in we have a part to play. Or based on our own receptivity at the time.

"12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation, but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.…"
Romans 8:12-14

IF
(That's your choice)
By the Spirit
(not our power, but the power within, which He gave us)
YOU put to death
(that's our work, not the Master's)
the deeds of the body (that includes all negative thinking, the past deeds, the impressions)
YOU WILL LIVE...

IF...not a given, we have a part to play. To use what we were given.

That's the meditation. That is all.


Reading the comments makes me realise just how much people cling to their beliefs even if they discover they are false.

I have heard that Gurinder said to “throw away the books”. Now I understand why. Its because they are all lies.

hi Jen!

"I have heard that Gurinder said to “throw away the books”. Now I understand why. Its because they are all lies."

The books are all truth, but I can see how from your filter you might get that interpretation.

Another interpretation is that you must find these things out on your own. The books are worthless unless they resonate within you, and that purity of hope and spirit is your responsibility to guard, to grow, to maintain. Doubt is easy. Faith is not. Faith matters. Pick anything you think worthy of faith and practice that faith. It will raise your heart.

But have nothing you can see worthy of faith, and have no faith, well, that is a job you have left incomplete.

You wrote:

"Reading the comments makes me realise just how much people cling to their beliefs even if they discover they are false."

But I have discovered they are true. However, my interpretation has changed over the years.

When I started I believed the Master would do it all. Now I realize I have a job to do also, and a responsibility, and no one else can replace that. Now I realize that even Jesus and St. Paul said the same thing: We have a job to do. But none of that would be possible with the Master, without the Spirit.

That is everything. The Spirit that leads one to humility, and to awe before something great and wondrous. The Spirit that is pure and completely without description.

That's inside you. If you find that perfection there, even as an idea and an ideal, that when you think about it, feelings of awe, humility, even submission to something greater than yourself. Then you are on to something.

But to shout at the darkness, what is the point? To say "That is wrong" does not actually lead anyone to what is right. You can call that "truth" but it has no value in it, no future in it.


Because you find the "right" within yourself, trying to focus on just what is truly good and right.

Then it comes to you. You catch it if you are lucky.

OK, Brian.

You shared reasons you have your doubts about Gurindar Singh.

I'd like to share some confirmatory stories, which I was blessed to witness...going backwards in time, starting with the most recent event.

ONE
In Fayetteville, a Satsangi who was beside himself with anxiety asked the Master a question. He began by telling Baba Ji that he had done something terrible, horrible and could never be forgiven. He began to detail what he had done and Baba Ji interrupted him.."Listen...listen to me. No loving parent wishes to see his child publicly humiliated, head down in shame. "

The room was silent.

Baba Ji continued, "What you did is in the past. Have you done what you can to make amends?"...

The person said "Yes".

Baba Ji added, "Are you going to do it again?"

The person said "No."

Baba Ji said, "Then it never happened."

The man, incredulous, said "Do you mean you forgive me?"

Baba Ji said "It's not like that. You don't need my forgiveness, brother. You did everything you could to make up for this. Now you must forgive yourself. It's gone. Forget it"

We were all silent. We were shocked,

OK, second story.

TWO
I have a son, with special needs. When he was about five, he couldn't sleep. He asked me to get him some water, then said "Daddy, don't leave. I'm scared."

I replied "I'm going to get you the water. Just ask Master for help, Sam. He's here. OK?"

"OK".

When I returned my son was lying very still, nearly asleep. "Sam, are you still afraid..?" I asked.

"No, Dad...I'm going to sleep now...Master touched me..."

I couldn't quite understand, so I asked him, "What?"

He replied before falling asleep, "Your master touched me. Everything is fine."


THREE
My son became an artist. He loves to draw. One morning I was making pancakes for him, and he was drawing. I asked, "What are you drawing now, Sam?" He said "I'm drawing your Master."

This got my attention. I went over to see what he was drawing. He drew a cartoon picture of me cooking, looking silly. And over my shoulder, behind me, was Baba Ji (now, my Master is actually Maharaji, so I'm not sure why Sam would call Baba Ji my Master...but it truly is all the same).

Baba Ji had a very sardonic expression. Like he was also laughing at my own silliness, like it was an inside joke between He and Sam.

"Sam, this looks just like Baba Ji. Where did you draw this from"

"Dad, he was standing right behind you."


FOUR
When I first saw Baba Ji in Kitchener it was as if the empire state building had landed gently on the Dias. He was radiating light, and I could see it.

I went to ask him a question.

"Lord. Every day I turn to my Master and ask for His help just getting through the day. Is this growing dependency healthy? Am I just deluding myself doing this?"

He turned and looke directly at me,,,and it was hard to look at Him because of the intense light...Really it felt like I needed sun glasses...and He said

"The mind is very limited. When the entire creation depends upon the Lord every moment for its existence, where is this talk of growing dependency?" He smiled.

That shock that went through me is there today every time I recall this moment.

Now, Brian, this isn't proof of anything to anyone else.

That's the point. I choose to believe because it is my nature. A nature given to me. And that is sacred.

And in that nature the world is filled with miracles, and all with the same message: Love.

This blog should be addressed as " How Brian gets all attention with posts on Gurinder" Gurinder is Brians secret lover look how much attention Brian gets with Gurinder. Brian just simply sits back and does not even bother to comment anymore..

Hi Spence,

I was initiated when I was 23 and I am 72 now. I had total faith in the Master and the Path and I'm still a strict vegetarian, don't use alcohol or drugs, and live a moral life. I think Sant Mat is a learning and growth process.

Now, I feel, (because I am more of an empath type person than an intellectual) that having learned a lot from RSSB its time to be, as I mentioned before, more of a sovereign being. Hard to explain but I don't think we should give our individual power to another being. I am still on my inner journey but now I'm becoming more self reliant and it feels like a wonderful new beginning.

I don't know about 'this is wrong and that is right', but I do question everything now and maybe I am still recovering from seeing through the illusionary beliefs I had when putting someone else on a pedestal.

Hi Jen:

You wrote:

"Now, I feel, (because I am more of an empath type person than an intellectual) that having learned a lot from RSSB its time to be, as I mentioned before, more of a sovereign being. Hard to explain but I don't think we should give our individual power to another being. I am still on my inner journey but now I'm becoming more self reliant and it feels like a wonderful new beginning.

I don't know about 'this is wrong and that is right', but I do question everything now and maybe I am still recovering from seeing through the illusionary beliefs I had when putting someone else on a pedestal."

Beautifully stated. A nobel sentiment.
Sometimes we need to grow up and be independent.
I have never stopped being a child. Maybe when I'm a little older.

But I was never able to make the whole "adult" thing work very well.

:)

Thanks Spence, nice to have a pleasant response.

I also enjoy being childlike, kinda like having a break from trying to figure out what life is all about :)

Much love to you brother.

:Quoting Jen:

"Yes, but Gurinder has changed the teachings, he says:

He has no special powers; he is not coming at your death; this is not the only path; he is not perfect; there are no regions, there is only the ONE; meditation will not get you there; there is no 'there' to get to."
---
Radha Soami Empress Jen!

Your quotes of the present RSSB teacher are valid concerns. If Baba Ji said this, he is trying to get initiates to do the Naam meditation, not just a thinking process of meditation as there are various definitions of when people say meditate. Like if someone says, meditate on an equation. It is a thinking process that won't get further than the mathematical thought. Naam is the One Baba Ji mentions here. And IF we do the Naam practice ardently for life, all will become easy. If we do not earnestly, even Sawan does not guarantee that we would get any of the benefits of this inner path.
---
:Still quoting Jen:

"The whole attraction, for me, was that the Master would appear at my death and guide me through the inner regions. If I had followed the principles of the path and made sufficient advancement in meditation I would then not have to be reborn and could continue to the highest region Sach Khand. Why has Gurinder changed the teachings from what Sawan and Charan taught?"
---
I would love to try to delve into a qurstion of this caliber, yet I cannot. But I do remember a letter from Sawan's Spiritual Gems that covers it. But Baba Ji saying there are no regions -I think I understand..is like saying IF we are sincere in our quest, God can make the crossing to Sach Khand much sooner than we could ever imagine..

"If in this life we give ourselves to devotion, we will not come again, but we will go back to our Home." -Spiritual Gems (ltr. 205)

Hi Karim, I am not an Empress, this is not something I aspire to. Interesting what you say about the Naam process. My practice now is simply one of self discovery and I do have very deep concerns about giving personal power to another being. I am sincere in my quest and have been since a child always thinking and questioning about what this strange world is. So, now am following my own path as an introvert, intuitive, empath, every moment assessing and sensing my way through life. What happens after death, do we merge into the One like Gurinder says? Guess we will only find out when it happens.

Naam meditation is a way to the One as taught by RSSB teachers.

If we are in sincere in doing what we were given at initiation into Naam, we CAN find out what happens before our actual physical deaths.

Sawan taught this fact, Jagat too, then Charan, etc.

So Naam is the usual practice of Simran and Bhajan. I thought maybe Gurinder had put a new spin on this doctrine as well.

Brian - to talk of 69s and butts is WRONG. And to all those who think it’s ok - I suggest you talk and use those terms in the comforts of your home In front of your own loved ones!!! And they they ask what it means - perhaps you could explain to them or draw diagrams! Do that and then really impress me by saying it is ok!!! It is WRONG!!!!

What a load of tosh to think it’s ok! Don’t chat shit on here! Over and out!

This quote from 777 comment above:
"Concerning Gurinder, : if he makes mistakes ( i don t believe this was )
GOD Himself made them with a purpose ! ! ! Gurinder just doesn't want to give up this difficult task - Nobody knows how it works but Millions and me too see his Light but not Him when he looks in the mirror
He is the precious beloved of HIS and YOUR Satguru 777"

To see 777, the supposedly 'enlightened one' who has a bunch of fans on this blog making excuses for Gurinder is sickening. So 777 does not believe that Guriinder made a mistake, its all GOD's fault! Well thank you to this imaginary God who has now revealed to some people that Gurinder is not a true PLM oops!

Hello Jen. I agree with you.

Some on here are either opioid addicts or just messed up!!!!!

Have these people seen God??? The answer is NO. Let me them again - WHERE is this God of yours???? Sorry where ????????

Perhaps working overtime at Religare????????

It is all their mental imagined tosh! Most on here are just apologists or could be RSSB bots.

:Quoting my last post:
"If we are in sincere.."

---
Sorry, that was supposed to say "If we are sincere.."

Sorry to have accidentally upset you Arjuna & Jen.

@ Karim - you have not upset me . I am an ex follower just fed up of all the shit. There is no support in that group and all you get is judged!!!

True Satguru is Money! Dollar. Its simples - that Simple. Ive seen it at Haynes. You have money- they will flock to shit like flies do - regardless of morals.

Nanak said mega money is not made by normal means. How the Feck can you have multi millionaires who have 0 personality and you just wonder....

Tired of shit and imaginary regions! JK Rowling could not dream up the kind od shit one reads about God, regions, or the One, or he ain't coming at the time of death. Contradiction after fairy story after contradication!!!! Peace out Brother!

Arjuna,

I must admit sometimes a satsangi like myself does't live up to the great ones you spoke of -like Nanak.

I have not reached the level of Nanak, yet that is a good goal to aspire for. You seem to already have the wisdom you need. Peace be with you as well brother.

@ Karim - thank you.

Truth be told I was a bit strong worded in my comments - I am just one of many who are true seekers and lost. The last thing I or people like me need is crap like “ the One, regions vs no regions, he will come at death or he won’t come at death, we will go to hell or fall down the chain into lower life forms. It’s all made up crap. Be real is what I say to people who sprout such crap. Some of us just seek a meaning.

This Master has one hell of a job in taking any souls back as He is fast losing good souls. What beats me about Him is the amount of wealth he is surrounded by- and most of these people who are around him are no Elon Musks or Albert Einsteins or Stephen Hawkins. But yet I wonder how they have made their wealth - exploiting the poor and those who are perhaps not as savvy in recognising bullshit! Sant Mat is a contradiction at the moment.

Even the Great Master smiled and showed love - all I got was strange looks from him. Good job I have strength to see through people. My mum used to say the Great Master could melt a million hearts by looking at people. I’d love to have met him. Hey ho brother - now you know there are true seekers after real reality.

All I say is that spare us “The One” crap - if you must watch the Jet Lee movie - they go on about The One a lot too on that too lol.


People be upon you too!

@ karim

I meant peace be upon you too 😀

-

quoting :
777: The Total Greatness of the RSSB Sound System
is that to my humble opinion
Gurinder doesn't know he is the perfect One
Gurinder, the appointed guru of RSSB "doesn't know"
what apparently 777 DOES know
namely that Gurinder IS the perfect one?
777: The Total Greatness of the RSSB Sound System
is that to my humble opinion
Gurinder doesn't know he is the perfect One
Gurinder, the appointed guru of RSSB "doesn't know"
what apparently 777 DOES know
namely that Gurinder IS the perfect one? """
Posted by: Osho Robbins | October 21, 2017 at 10:27 AM
_____________

This is delicate :
Don't forget : this is about the Grand Purpose of this Universe

First, among ALL satsangis and exers included , I would be the last one suited for this Job of Jobs
and I am not thinking of my age here.
How I feel myself is like a spoiled child.

I am just a Lover of The Shabd ( Osho READ Pls : Shabd is the Divine Inner Soundstream
given and developed in satsangis by the Saints
IS ALSO CALLED: THE HOLY GHOST ))

How the Real Saints feel and operate nobody can discuss.
It would be the same as testing God with our poor IQ of max 160 .
The story says that the exer archangel Lucifer with his IQ 999 to the power of 9
tried to define it
he forgot or didn't know : this can only be done by LOVE
and still licks his wounds (karma)

Entities build around the matrix of 7 chakras like humans
can by sufficiently concentrate on the 6th, next the 7th chakra where The Holy Ghost invites us with His Constant Music to participate
The music of the Spheres

A little remark about The Radiant Form of These Saints

Often before receiving the above Music one sees a partivle of this phenomenon.
It can start like flashes f.i. when life gives much distress ( as a help ) but it's like everything a Gift
but in an ideal example
the Lover sees Him for long periods of time as an exalting Light , streaming out of His forehead , which changes every molecule it touches in filowing as in a river diamonds
The Sound behaves likewise as music we never ever can imagine on earth

This can only be survived by the use of the 5 magic words ( received at initiation )

The RSSB Satsangi experiences that The Saint, . . The unbroken Sound, ..
The 5 Words are ALL the same phenomenon and can only cry from joyous flabbergastness
Yes thoughts can't continue but tears yes

Further and ofcourse like flowers or leaves :
Not 2 of these exêriences are the same
Charan said : It ever GROWS
God is not in Carbon Copying -

He does that in a 7 chakra being as much as possible.

BTW I feel fine to be just a messenger - it gives me a lot of good feelings

Osho, I would ask for initiation; then you can have it too.

but NOT the understanding

777
ps
Can the hacker who damaged my Mac signaturing 777 stop that please
Yes you are very good in that . . . temporaly

-


-

Hi Jim

We were 4 times in India

We never saw the Taj Mahal

Would you have made the same itinerary and some of your time to allow God
to convince U,
if to your taste
Jesus had been at the dera

You see what I mean?


777


-

To 777,.....and
Arjuna, ..... I consider myself a True Seeker, and feel your pain. Bull Shit stinks, and there are way to many Paddies stinking up the clean green fields. There are too many new interpretations of age old tested teachings that are revised and lead newbies astray who are not grounded in Scriptures, so believe the latest internet story and opinion of people that have never been initiated by a Real Living Master, If you have never been to the Dera in India, you would find that Haynes and all other Satellite Sanghats are not like the Dera. I really doubt that Gurinder would ever make just jokes about Butts and 69s any where outside his own Home, the Dera.. In fact, I’ll bet he will deny he ever said such jokes any where, and his followers will circle his wagon and also Deny he said it. But I KNOW what I heard! If Jesus had been there and said what Gurinder did, I would be converting to Islam or Voodoo!

Quoting Jim:

"I really doubt that Gurinder would ever make just jokes about Butts and 69s"

This about Baba Ji saying but.

Sounds like he did make a joke. But butt was NOT the joke. 69 was.

Why? A man who always says but, but, but, must know that a man who is married has to deal with a wife who says to him "But this is cute. But honey why not? But you say you love me, so buy me a new Hummer (H2), etc."

So when Baba Ji initially asked the man if he liked his wife's BUT. Baba Ji light heartly saying man's wife's BUT(s). (But this, but that,)

This may not make since to many..So I'll hurry and get to the 69 part:

A wife and a husband are never barred from sexual relations; nor in Sant Mat, Buddhism, Sikhism or Hinduism. As long as they are of mutual consent.

Lastly, I can see your concern thinking a Guru to speak adulterous of another man's wife, but the part about BUT is definitely not how is sounded perceptive Jim, and the 69 part is an encouragement from the Guru to the man to love his wife, physically & spiritually as long as she'll consent to 69 with her spouse. Good luck!

& Radha Soami

Jim Charan put Gurinder thete where he is and he loved him. You betrayed Charan just because one joke. You are full of judgement. Just because of joke. Negativity and judgement.

-


While actually in France
I don't have to close my eyes
to see Gurinder's Radiant Brilliant Splendor and LOVE
at any time

Thank You :
Tulsi
Seth Shiv Dayal
Jaimal
Sawan
Jagat
Charan
GURINDER

and many many many more Saints are in that Same Light
at any time
like Jesus
Solomon
Melchizedek
Ankenaton

no end, no end in sight


and I am just a manmukh and
3 lives ago a nasty murderer
as I said in one of my first comments :-) - OMG

777

I don't know if I just read what I did from Karim but there you go! Oral/anal sex is absolutely disgusting. Even animals don't do that.

Arjuna, the idea that you have some living master that appears in your third eye and takes you on journeys around the cosmos when you have an OBE is the stuff of fantasy for sure. It is CRAZY. Do people really expect a human being to be omnipresent like this and to appear to their "ghost" body to take them sightseeing? Fuck! That is WEIRD.

If the goal is truth or God, you will find that different religions have different ideas about this. Most mainstream religions don't believe what Sant Mat believes. God does exist though. I can testify to that. Whether I'm supposed to go along with dogmas or doctrines is a different matter and something I don't subscribe to. It seems almost too obvious for words to me that the cosmos shows intelligence and design and a whole assortment of mysteries and varieties of weird phenomena. To say otherwise is a form of lying to oneself.

Life is often frustrating. We don't always get what we want and sometimes seem to get exactly what we don't want. Blaming that on God is silly. It is immature. But when you are down, nobody is going to come along and convince you that the only reason you even exist is because of God. You won't hear it. Your body and mind are designed by a power greater than you, as is everything else in nature. You may have many benefits in life, clothes, good food and drink, shelter, loving family and friends and so on. But these things are easy to forget in the throes of suffering or frustration. It isn't always bad. God may be invisible to you but we know that the invisible exists even in this material universe and it is good that invisible things exist!

"You have betrayed the master by being judgemental!" Irony, anyone? Serious mental gymnastics in this thread.

Tom writes,...”Jim Charan put Gurinder thete where he is and he loved him. You betrayed Charan just because one joke. You are full of judgement. Just because of joke. Negativity and judgement.”

Me: i have no doubt what so ever that Charan loved Gurinder. I also do not doubt he put him in charge of the Dera.

But there are many things none of us know, or may never know.

Is Charan instructing Gurinder inside to do every thing he has done, that we read on these blogs?

If not, did Charan instruct any Plan how,to,expand the Dera and RSSB before he left his body?

We don’t know Gurnder’s Goal, or,why he has changed the teachings from Sant Mat 1 to Sant Mat 2,3 or 4.

If what he is teaching is true, i.e., no guarentee of being released from Transmigration, no inner Reagins, no one coming to meet us at death, why in the world would any one want to get initiated by him!

Osho Robbins has posted his beliefs, and altho writing like a drunkin Sailor, doesn’t describe Gurinder as any Spiritual Master most sane seekers would agree to give up a normal life to be initated by a man who promises and guarentees absolutely nothing in return!

Why, oh why, Seekers, would you take all the Vows and agree fo give up your lives in refurn for NOTHING, or even a promise of being delivered from transmigration to a lower specie after loosing this human body?

To those Initiates who love Gurinder, WHY do you love him?

If he promses nothng, after initiation, why, or how does any love happen when nothing is given?

If REAL Love is given by Gurinder to any one, how does he give it?

I could go on, but David Lane and Brian Hines have been the Forum Leaders of bashing Gurimder for years, and I don’t plan to proselyte their followers.

But we all should wonder, and ask, if nothing has changed from Charan's initial instructions he have him in 1990, and if Charan is srill leading Gurnder, as Sawan is supposedly leading Ishwar Puri, why are there such variances in Teachings that echoed thru the Dera before 1990?

Could the Chemo and Radiation treatments have effected Gurmder’s brain?

Would every body here, be willing to send your Daughters to be initiatd by Gurinder as soon as they become of age, then trust them to be Slaves of Gurinder , willing, ready, and able, to be on call to do what ever Sewa Gurinder asks rhem to do, at his request?

What if your Daughters would,have been at the Q&A meetIng I was at, and heard Gurnder ask if he knew what a 69 is?

Jim

Jim you are deluded. No Gurinder wants any slaves. And he did not changed any teachings. What he is teaching is to forget the theory and live the real practice. Why do you play this stupid game Jim ? When describing your trip to dera you also thought that sewadars will capture you...come on..and you did not even say any thankful for being free of charge there. You fall in the trap of your mind games. Gurinder is not near a bad person. If you end up concluding and judging on anybody fast like on Gurinder that tells a lot about you.. Sorry but i dont see any love and positivity in your posts anymore...you show alot of twisted and fearfull thinking here. Realy if you cannot see your delusion here than i dont know who will help you i just know you are obsessed with number 69.

Tom, if those old Sewadors aren’t Slaves, what are they? I am talking about those that lve at the Dera, i.e. the old female Sweepers, the Room Cleaners, the Farm field laborers, and ALL those Slaves who live and WORK there for FREE for their meager existence. In the U.S.,keeping humans on a Plantation to do free labor is Slavery, and Americans fought a Civil War about Slavery in 1865 that ended up killing 700,000 American Soldiers on both sides who disagreed about Slavery. The opposers of Slavery were called Abolitionists. So, I suppose any one who believes that those Sewadors Living and laboring for free at the Dera with no other place to live, is not legel, but wrong, would be RSSB Abolitionists? by the way, Osho Robbins spells it SeVadors, with a V, not a W, and he has been a Satsangi longer than most of us here ,.....

You did not answer my question. Would you advise your Daughter to ask Gurinder for Initiation?

As for thanking some one for my stay at the Dera, who do I thank? You? I did thank all those who helped me get there. I would gladly thank Gurinder personally, if I could get by his body Guards with out being killed,

If who ever is in charge of Billing at the Dera would send me an itemized Bill for my stay at the Dera, I will gladly remit payment plus 20% Gratutity to each Sewadors that did any thing for us.

The Dera has my mailing Address, so they can send me the Bill.

Tom, if you came to my country, got off a Train, and two strangers grabbed your luggage and started running away with it, wouldn't you chase them to try and stop them as I did? Then, after catching them, they loaded our luggage in to a Vehicle and commaned us to get in! The Two men in Kaiki Uniforms that looked Military to me drove us to an unidentified location in to a gated Compound , then threw our luggage off, and we were not allowed to leave until I bought a SECRET CODE to make a single phone call to tell my Taxi Driver he had to give me his Name, Vehicle Registration Number, and License plate Number, before he could enter the Compound to pick me up.come on, you are only lookiig thru your own shaded glasses, not mine.

From the Train, we were taken prisoners by RSSB unidentified Security Slaves, and held Hostage for two days until I paid the Secret Code Ransom to make my single telephone call to my Taxi Driver to come get me.

You are judging me, so I can judge any one I want to. I am back in tne U.S., and its a Free country here. We have free speach, and Laws that protect the innocent from Slavery. We have minimum laws.

Jim

In the U.S. we have Mini um Wage Laws.

Jim

Quote Jim..U.S., and its a Free country here
....
Yea right. Us created isis and is responsible for many slaves around the world and many deaths. Btw i dont have a daughter.

And those sweepers in dera are there on their own decision and you know that. Why did you became such a manipulator now. You were not like that before. Now you are twisting stuff more than other guy tAo.

Tom, why didn’t you come out here in support of my posts when I was posting Kudos for Gurinder?

Why do you turn on your own and disrespect me, as a Brother Satsangi if you are an Initiate?

I am not twisting any thing at all. I reported events exactly as it happened. I am an Eye, Ear Witness, of all and every thing that happened. I don’t lie.

I am like one of the blind witnesses who touched the elephant all over and gave different reports.

Until some one posts here that either was there when I was, or has confirmed eye wtness reports from friends that were, than all rebuttles to my posts are Fake News.

Jim

The point is that Gurinder is great and clean man. And there are no slaves in dera.


Tom writes,...”The point is that Gurinder is great and clean man. And there are no slaves in dera”

Me: If that is true, than the only other explanation for his re-BUTTing that Docfor’s but, but, buts, .....and asking him if he knew what a 69 was, he must have been reading the thoughts that were in the Doctor’s mind, rather than what was in Gurnder’s own mind!

In fact, if that conversation is recorded, after Gurinder made those “jokes???”,........the man was embarressed, as I said, and was trying to change the subject, and Gurinder actually made another revealing comment that went some thing ( can’t remember exactly ) like ths: “Well, you should be careful what you are thinking, because don’t Masters know what Satsangis are thinking.” It must be recorded, and could be varified. Either Gurinder said it, or the man asked Gurnder if he really knew what he was thinking, as Masters have been said to know.

But if Gurnder knew what the man was thinking, and exposed his thoughts in public to the entire group, does any one think that is some thing Charan or Sawan would do?

If Guriinder reads minds, Satsangis that visit the Dera better be very careful about what they are thinking, and go there with pure minds, before sitting before him in public, or he may decide to expose your thoughts in public!

But, personally, I do NOT believe Gurinder is able to read minds, nor that he read that man’s mind. He exposed what was in his own mind.

Jim

I AGREE WITH :
"" But, personally, I do NOT believe Gurinder is able to read minds, nor that he read that man’s mind. ""

AND DISAGREE
"" He exposed what was in his own mind. ""

Many of us have witnessed even representatives
giving amazing almost serendipity like answers
an Jim
You better than anyone should know the workings of The Holy Ghost
on a Speaker as on the audience

Perhaps the 69 was only for You , Jim . . . think !!!
I don t attack You Jim
When I had been there , I could easily conclude that it was for me !!!

777 writes,....”Perhaps the 69 was only for You , Jim . . . think !!!”

Me: depending on what you mean, you might be right, considering the Sychronicity of my only visiting the Dera once in 30 years, and even then, only 2 days, and in that short time, hear the man that my Master appointed to take care of his Desciples and Initiate new Marked souls, act like a Teen aged boy, and make such jokes,

The Holy Spirit made the arrangements for me to be there, at the exact time in history, to see what I saw, hear what I heard, and to experience what I did, in order to awaken me from my hypnautic trance of deception!

Even before I heard Gurinder embarress the man, just listening to him joke about other things, like his padded cell to bump his head against after dealing with all his imperfect followers, and how he talked to others coming to the mic asking questions, ..... if I had not put him on a Pedestal, he sounded like just another real Wise Ass to me!!

I really tried to see, and hear, something, any thing, Spiritual about him, but I couldn’t find it. Not for me.

I never went to the Dera to look for any answers to my spiritual questions I had not already settled. I only went there because I wanted to see it once before I die, and settle if I had a past life Dejavu there, or if I might have been a Sawan Singh Desciple.

Its settled. There was absolutely no Dejavu.

As for the 69, I think we all know here, who the Flute Players and Muff Divers are! You have voluntarily identified yourselves!!

As for me, I feel graced to even be able to take a piss.

Master Charan Singh must have WANTED me to visit the Dera, before I die, to settle my issues, or he would not have come to me to give me advice on how to stay in my body awile longer, long enough for me to visit the Dera.

All my issues are now settled. I am ready to die, and every day I remain in my body is a Bonus.

My Inner experinces have never been so clear and full of visuals, Light and Sound since i returned home.

“Amazing Grace,.....How Sweet The Sound,......I Once Was Blind,....But Now I See!!”

Jim

-


"" in order to awaken me from my hypnautic trance of deception! ""

So, you have received a big gift overthere.

Always so nice to see a Saint operating, . . with 3 words he
is triggering 100 pistols

777

-

-
-

GURU GRANTH SAHIB :

" HE has a thousand fingers on His trigger ! "

OMG


777

PS
Hé Jim, . . . never liked that , . . haha really , but I still adore women


"" I am ready to die, and every day I remain in my body is a Bonus. ""

Really Congrates JIM

Don't tell Bayer INC

YES I TAKE 500 MGRAM SINCE LONGUE :)



:Quoting Spence Tepper:
"IF...not a given, we have a part to play. To use what we were given.
That's the meditation. That is all."

Whoa man, great words. I should have read more slower, could have saved myself from explaining some things. Yet I am still a Muslim sinner, doing my best to reach the levels of prophets and saints. Born and raised from ghetto, yet lucky to know of Naam, still great words sir.

:Quoting Tom:
"he did not changed any teachings. What he is teaching is to forget the theory and live the real practice."

More great words! I could not have said that any better myself. Inspiring to know Satsangis like you are out there.

:Quoting 777:
"Thank You :
Tulsi
Seth Shiv Dayal
Jaimal
Sawan
Jagat
Charan
GURINDER..."

More great words! You sir always has something good to say.

May I meet all you Satsangis one day in Sach Khand. To me I feel you all are really future Sat Gurus & True Gurmukhs!

As-Salaam-Alaikum

-

-

THANK YOU KARIM

"Kill them with LOVE ! "

777


-

Karim trying to hide and veil his preference for the totally disgusting act of oral sex.

:Quoting D.r:

"trying to hide and veil his preference for the totally disgusting act of oral sex"

I will openly say I HAVE pleasured women orally. So where do you get this HIDE part?

Yet D.r must be complete, perfect, and without sin. We can all can learn from such a great example.

Kudos

D. r.
You wrote

"Karim trying to hide and veil his preference for the totally disgusting act of oral sex."

One woman's treasure is another man's junk.

DR

In Love nothing is forbidden

exept by pundits of all sorts

The karma god looks to one item only
Don't hurt a living thing
and Karim is just that

777

I'm no longer a dedicated satsangi and I read these comments and think you guys have lost the plot when it comes to sex and lust. You know the rules of Sant Mat and yet seem to be in denial and even boasting about pleasuring women. Yuck.

Sat Naam: The Five Enemies: Lust, Anger, Attachment, Greed and Ego.

I found this quote:

"These Five Thieves reside inside your body and steal your life force, your inner spiritual energy known as AMRIT.  And they steal NAAM the source that generates your inner Amrit."

:Quoting Jen:

"The Five Enemies: Lust, Anger, Attachment, Greed and Ego."

I'm not clear on your source for your quote. It does remind me of a letter from Sawan to a seeker;

"You say you have difficulty with KAM [Lust] and AHANKAR [Ego, Vanity, or Pride]. Well, nearly all men have that diffi- culty. Do not try to fight them, but just subdue them by substituting in their place the opposite virtues as ideals. The old enemies will gradually lose their power over your mind. When the time comes that you actually contact the SHABD DHUN inside, all
of the five evils...passions, will die out and disappear..." (taken from: Spiritual Gems ltr.207, by Sawan Singh Ji)

Karim, you say "subdue them by substituting in their place the opposite virtues" ... "all of the five evils...passions, will die out and disappear".

Yes, I agree, but it doesn't help when even the Master of this spiritual path, Gurinder, does not behave as a good example. Anyway, its not for me to judge! We all have to do our best to discover and traverse our own inner journey.

Do not try to fight them - I checked that

May I please suggest that RSSB is a mentality in wave forms

One day goes better than another
Therefore it's the path of the house mothers and fathers

Our fantastic dutch representative Lional Metz said to me discussing the red Amsterdam district , while passing there :
The sex urge consists off several stages
The first is the knowledge ( Dhyan also ) of some of these sweeties before you go on their territory - just from remembering

THIS IS THE ONLY DEFENSE POSSIBILITY

This Dhyan must be ignored within a third of a second
when not very strong

Two third of that second and you are lost and sometimes many consequences will follow

That is Sawan saying: don't fight, do Simran and walk further,
if not you can miss the whole SatSang thinking about that candy

In fact it is the same with unfaithful marriages

I have no bright experience about how woman do this
Seems easier , . . . but is not !

I guess they have another difficulty, sometimes mixing love and lust
while men definitely know that lust is lust
and must do a lot of Simran, Masters Dhyan and Sound practice
to overcome
It really helps if you want to go faster on the Path
Yes, the Satsang place at that time was right in the middle of the worldly enjoyment

It would be very good not to JUDGE each other, . . . statements here :
don t take them to seriously

If you think you have the Only Love Olympic Medal
you might be tested
even after you were IN

But make do not to many troubles and thoughts, regrets : Don't fight
Replace it

Rather amusing I found is the quotation of Sawan to a horny man

"Just double your meditation time"

Nice when you enjoy that sufficiently

It is all Grace
It is ALL LOVE
Also our failures

The point is that the Sound is in waves of intensity
Nice would be when approaching the kam zone It would overwhelm us
but that is not the case
Perhaps a Saint has that


ps
I guess Brian better open a new chapter for this interesting item
because now I have to descend already 6 pages


777


First is the thought : now I m going around the corner and will see the exposed ladies"

777, your post makes me happy that I am an old female and find sex quite revolting now. The benefit will be that I won't be subjected to this kind of enticement on the inner planes by (as you say the temptation "some of these sweeties before you go on their territory" ). Surely men will have to strive on this earthly plane to vanquish lust otherwise they will be severely tempted on the inner planes.

I guess thats why we are warned about lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego. We really have to get our act together and vanquish or at least have some control of these deadly enemies before we die so that we can make progress on the inner spiritual journey. I think that constant evaluation of our thoughts and feelings, impressions and desires is very important. Watching and observing oneself in our daily life. Like a buddhist practising self awareness.

The Apostle Paul writing to the Romans in his time, must have encountered some Satsangis , that had the same thoughts as some on this forum still have. There might be a Bible lesson here for the Muff Divers and Flute players.

We know what became of Rome! For those who don’t, read Gibbons Fall of Rome.

Romans 1:24-30:

“24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.

27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; “

After all those years of philosophy critics debates and all.. we are back to bible quotes. Jim its time for retirement.

Anonymous, the entire Path of Sant Mat is based on quotations from past Masters,and Saints.

Charan wrote two books on the Bible, along with John Davidson’s massive book about Jesus.

And Dr. Stone wrote “The Mystic Bible” no longer in print by RSSB , but sells used for $300 and up, when ever it is found. Its all Bible Teachings.

The Apostle Paul, never saw Master Jesus in the flesh, and was his enemy,...until the Radiant form of Jesus appeared to him while riding his horse, and the Lght was so Bright, he fell off his horse on the way to Damascus to persecute Christians.

The Light was so bright, that Paul was blinded. Jesus spoke to Paul, as Charan spoke to me, in his Radiant Form.

Paul was told to go to Damascus and find a Master named Ananias to pray for him, which he did, and was initated in to the Path.

He became a Master who wrote most of the New Testament in the Bible.

His Epistles is the history of the transition from Judism to Christianity.

What have you got against the Bible?

Jim

Jen said :
"""Surely men will have to strive on this earthly plane to vanquish lust otherwise they will be severely tempted on the inner planes.""

Jen, if you knew what Charan answered about this
you would take back your arrogant words like lightning

Same for all judgements and so many times using on this blog vulgar words
instead of the original simple figure

LOVE <3


777
`

Well, 777, showing your true colours at last, calling me arrogant, and saying I use judgements and vulgar words. What a joke! You are supposed to be the faultless, faithful, enlightened satsangi!

Spiritual Gems: extracts from the letters of Huzur Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji to seekers and disciples:
Page 43

"The world is the design of Kal and maya, the negative forces. To keep the soul down, they based the structure of the world on couples, man and woman. If both man and woman were to catch the sound of Nam and rise up, both would be free. Here, one holds down the other. And because we have not seen the other side of the whole picture, we take our present existence and our surroundings as the normal affair. Strictly speaking, we are living an abnormal life.

Page 44
Those who indulge in kam for the sake of indulgence are doing no good to themselves. To hide their ignorance or weakness, they call this indulgence a physiological necessity and have gone to the extent of advocating the use of contraceptives etc. All that is due to the weakness of human nature. Those who indulge for the sake of children should try to control themselves when they have the required number of children...

Again, to indulge after conception, and so long as the child is dependent upon the mother, is something inhuman. Here again, to defend our weakness, we may propound any code; but weakness is weakness, and no amount of defence will convert it into strength."

Wow, what a different world it was then. So different to Gurinder's approach now!

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