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June 12, 2017

Comments

A lot of bile in those comments and not entirely balanced:

"They even discriminate on basis of colour if you're white you sit in the front and if you're brown you sit behind the white people."

The exact opposite is the case in the American Sangat: At the centers, it is the Indian descendants and family that are generally in front when Baba Ji visits. Of course, they are also the ones who get there several hours beforehand.

The problem with anger is that it colors one's vision throwing objectivity right out the window.

Then you don't see the subject, you see just the context.

"We don't see the world as it is. We see it as we are."
-Anais Nin

King Janaka was also quite wealthy. Didn't get in the way of His lovers or of His greatness.

As is famously attributed to him, "Pleasure and pain, it's all the same."

Spence: "The problem with anger is that it colors one's vision throwing objectivity right out the window."

Absolutely right! The same can be said for religious belief, of course. At least anger is (or should be!) temporary!

Spence: "King Janaka was also quite wealthy. Didn't get in the way of His lovers or of His greatness."

Great comment, and gets right to the heart of why many people will consider the idea the multi-millionaire businessman Gurinder (through a company he's never even worked for and which has at the very least questionable ethics) is God on earth to be quite a laughable idea.

You see, in the entire history of genuine mystics and gurus, there has actually never been any real wealthy ones. At all, as far as I'm aware? On the contrary, they tend to be quite poor indeed. Almost always.

There is a very profound & indeed sophisticated reasons for this some will understand immediately, but are too complex to go into here. It should suffice to say the words "liminality" (western concept), or the words "maya v daya". The entire raison d'etre of the "satguru" within this specific mythos is that of being an agent of Dayal or the Merciful One, whilst money or "maya" is considered to be a tool of Kal.

It is interesting that many followers of new-age obscenely rich "gurus" (of which Gurinder is without doubt the most obscenely rich I am aware of, in ANY tradition?) trot out this "Raja Janak was a King and very rich!" line (a wonderful self-rationalisation for what we must all intuitively sense is just wrong....ah, the cognitive dissonance!).

To those people who are paying attention, it should be noted that ONLY example people can trot out is Raja Janak - a semi-mythological philosopher-king in the Vedic tradition from around 2,500 years ago!! In the subsequent 2,500 years there have been hundreds if not thousands of gurus, sants and mystics from all over India (and indeed the world).

Who can find an example out of all those hundreds of non-semi-mythological Vedic philosopher-kings, who was even moderately well off?

Today we are faced with the claim that God's Representative on earth is not only the first millionaire guru of all time, but that he is actually a multi-multi-millionaire with almost a billion dollars to his family name, seemingly earned solely because of his position as Guru of the Radhasoami religion.

Indeed we are blessed.

On a more serious note, more discerning thinkers might ponder over the implications at a deeply symbolic level....

Ethnocentrism...the prejudice of judging all other cultures inferior to your own, by your own ethics.

It was tired in the Victorian era.
It's so last century before the last century, Manjit.

I wonder if critics would be more impressed with Gurinder Singh if he was a dead broke Beggar, sitting on the ground wearing a dhoti and staring in to the air , as his thousands of admirers sit under the large roof watching him on TV Monitors?

But then, he would be accused of being a Beggar, not earning his own living, and using donations from the Sangat.

There were many wealthy Mystics in the past, richer than Gurinder. Jesus said his Father owned the Cattle on a thousand hills, so being His Representive on earth during that time, he owned the Cattle. King Solomon was the richest Mystic of his time, and had control of the Jews and the temple, most likely, a larger following than Gurinder has at RSSB.

I can really feel the frustrations and want to add at Jim's response on the beggar

that before seeing Gurinder within ( I'm a Charan disciple ) seeing Him together with Charan and for those of in-feeling : seeing >> 24/7 and it should ( same as Shabd forver , same as the words forever ,

we had a nice experience about Him in Switzerland when He left the conference room

So many people that around the EXIT : my wife and I went 200 meter further down-road , although a contra-argument would be : "Car speeds more and mini Darshan becomes micro Darshan.

So there the car came and look what happened :
The chauffeur slows and at the same time Gurinder appears a 5 times bigger than the whole car with terrible beautiful transparant diamond outpouring Light , radianting from Him
in the same way I described here years ago concerning Charan ( google Brian + Wiesbaden )

Also a change in Time was occuring as if the phenomenon took more minutes.

As I said , it was the third time we saw him physically and before we seeing Him all the time

Then my wife said to me : "Did you see that"
Me : "Yes , you mean all that light ?"

She : "Happy you saw that too because it would have been impossible to explain

Btw such a happining gives total trust about Who is the successor !
Wauuw they say here

I said also in former comments :
HE will need some wordly assets because of what will happen with our planet and then to be able to function properly

So, for me , if he possedes . . Goldman Sachs, or exploites cam4.com
it makes to me no difference at all

He is the beloved of The SatGuru

777

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To Manjit
"Today we are faced with the claim that God's Representative on earth is not only the first millionaire guru of all time, but that he is actually a multi-multi-millionaire with almost a billion dollars to his family name, seemingly earned solely because of his position as Guru of the Radhasoami religion."

My friend, why you are completely misleading the readers ?
Please bookmark and make note of all of your these comments, it will help you in future when you would want to come back and would want to get it corrected.

To reet
The content of the post is very selectively written and missing quite a few facts and observations.

If all the facts are to be considered, the content is hiding so many things, due to which it appears all the way more appealing to criticize the Master.

Some list items of facts which will make the overall content more appropriate for the readers:

  • the Indian sangat has a much better and easier and frequent access to their Master, the foreigners on the other hand have to spend quite a bit of funds and spare quite some time to attend to the Master even once.
  • I don't know if you are from India, but if you are, this point is really for you reet. Indian Sangat is in ten's of millions of counts whereas the foreigners are just a handful of people. They don't even occupy one complete enclosure.
    Also, even if there was no special enclosure for foreigners, and you had to sit really in front of the Master, it would only be possible for a few hundreds of people - right ? most of the persons who complain for this are anyhow going to sit in the lateral enclosures as per the first come basis.
    Also, for the Indian sangat, one enclosure starts right in the front of the Master, but if you really want to sit there, you have to be there at least 5 hours in advance... and you can sit almost just adjacent to the foreigner sangat - which to me is quite fair, if somebody is spending so much time and efforts to come to India/Beas and you just need to spend 5 additional hours to have the same place - it's still much more easier for you. Probably you have not tried that yet ?
  • a special (I would use the word confined) area for the publicly known person, which is surely required otherwise the decorum of the Satsang will be greatly hurt if they sit in regular sangat and invokes the unrequired talks.
  • discrimination: In the physical world view it may appear that there is this discrimination (which itself is for the better management). But from the subtle level everyone sitting in the satsang is exactly equal for HIM. HIS Grace reaches exactly same to everyone. There is really no discrimination in reality.
  • billionaire relatives: HIS relatives, ex-owners of the Ranbaxy company, have acquired the wealth in legacy from their grand ancestors, if you traverse the history, you can observe how they started the whole medicine business by producing an injection and how the journey continued and the progressed. There is no slightest use of funds of RSSB donations are used. It's really like comparing oranges and apples.
  • private airplane: the airplane was gifted to the Master by the same relatives, ex-owners of the Ranbaxy pharmaceutical company and it has nothing to do with the . The Master lives completely on HIS own earnings and the pension which HE still receives from the company in Spain where HE used to work in the early years of HIS life.
  • people helping each other: There is always free langar facility (free lunch and dinner) throughout the year - compelte 365 days without fail. Anyone, whether someone who believes in the Master or not, can avail this free lunch and dinner - no questions asked. In my early days I remember when Huzur Maharaj Charan Singh Ji were the Master, there used to be the food in the langar but the tea was no there and it had to be purchased from canteen (though still on very minimal cost). But now Babaji has also made tea as part of the langar as well.
  • Free hospital and medical facility is available in the Dera and also outside the Dera there is a fully functional charitable hospital which treats the needy without asking at any questions about their spiritual inclination
  • It is not sad, it's such a great thing to see that with an extremely little contribution from the capable ones - the RSSB, by HIS grace has been able to achieve so much. Just visit the Beas, and if you timely apply for the hostel accommodation, you will observe how comfortable the rooms and the beddings are and there is no charge for anything related to accommodation and it's always going to be like this. They will never ask you whether you donated or not - your donation will not earn you a room in the hostel (or even in Sarai) if you are not timely applying for it. The food is of the highest quality and the lunch and dinner are the buffet at a very nominal cost. All of this is happening because of HIS grace and selfless work and the devotion to make the best out of the donations of the sangat i.e. to use it in the best way possible for the sangat itself.
  • All this is done by the donations from the sangat - the funds are best utilized for the needful and the sangat receives their share of unimaginable grace of the Master
  • "No one has any luck even after years of meditation. Those who claim that they do, the ones I have met so far are my grandparents and it turns out their electrolytes were out of balance and they were confused and hallucinating." Really? After reading so many comments on that post where you posted this comment, really strange you are still holding this perception.

A beautiful verse from Kabir Saheb:
"Maru par mangu nahi,apne tan ke kaj.
Parmarath ke karne,mohi na aabe laj."

meaning:
I will die but never demand anything for my own good.
But for helping others,I will never feel shy.

one initiated quoted

A beautiful verse from Kabir Saheb:
"Maru par mangu nahi,apne tan ke kaj.
Parmarath ke karne,mohi na aabe laj."

meaning:
I will die but never demand anything for my own good.
But for helping others,I will never feel shy.

Babani ) spent his whole life telling everyone that this was the true path

then he found out that it was ll about money.

http://www.unp.me/f15/radha-swami-satsang-beas-expose-business-dealings-65652/#ixzz20sgEaPG2

he could no longer accept RSSB as the truth. He became depressed and died a broken man.


Gurindar has made His Will known to His Sangat:' Where others will not go to help, we must. '

He has repeatedly done His part. And unwavering in establishing our similar duty.

The rest is just excuses, criticizing others to avoid our own duty.

Yes, He set the bar incredibly high. So what?

You want to lower the bar on personal duty?

How does that help the world?

Like the bumper sticker said, lead, follow or get out of the way.

To Amir: my Kids found out that Santa Clause was me, and not the bearded fat man in the red suit. But they never stopped celebrating Christmas nor the presents they continued to receive each Christmas tho, they never told all their friends what a Fake Santa Clause was.

They also never became Activists against Santa Claus and crashed the lines n the Shopping Malls of the chidren waiting in line to sit on Santa's Knee to tell hm their stories that had been good all year , and that they wanted ----- for Christma while their Moms were taking photos of them for their future remembrances of how Special Santa Claus was.

Can you honestly site Janaka without referring to Ashtavakra? Hardly a wealthy man

This is my first comment on this blog but i visit here almost every week. I just wanted to share my experience with these so called satsangis. I was born in Punjab and came to Canada 15-16 years ago. No one in my side of the family believes in this Rssb cult or path whatever they call it.
After my marriage i met some relatives from my wife's side who are the true followers of this cult. Initially they seemed to be so nice and spiritual but later on they started showing their true colours. I could not say much initially and got influenced by them. it was a new relationship and they slowly started forcing their beliefs on me like what should i eat and what i should not. I should read their books, i should attend weekly satsangs.
So for the sake of that close relationship i went few times to local satsang and bought couple books. When Gsd came to canada few years ago i was told that he is a God in human form and i should must attend his satsang and i went. I did not hide anything from my wife. Because of this there was always an argument between me and my wife because she only believes in main stream sikhi. She told me number of times that Rssb is a fake thing. They just brainwash the people.
I am very thankful to my wife. She helped me a lot in getting out of this cult in which i was for 5-6 months. I am happy that i am back to the main stream sikhism.
We had clearly told them that this is not going to happen anymore, and that family has now stopped talking to us because we dont follow their beliefs. Its been a long time now and not a single word between us.

Not pointing out anyone but just wanna say few points i noticed.

These people say this a spiritual path and its not a religion but thats not true.
They say read their book, why not Sri guru granth sahib for sikhs?
They use quotes from Gurbani but never say read and follow Gurbani.
They never talk about amrit, they only talk about their naamdaan.
Why cant anyone tlk about the namdaan? Why so secret?
Why no one can make video or take pic? What so special in GSD?
They never say go to Gurughar.
They dont go to Gurughar as a place of worship as they go to satsang ghar, they only USE Gurbani and Gurughar for their benefits.

In reality for these sarsangis from sikh background their Guru is Gurinder dhillon not Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but when they need to do the weddings and stuff they have no choice they have to bow in front of Guru Granth Sahib ji and have to visit Gurughar. My point is if You call Gsd your guru than go do everything at his Satsanghars and with his books, why do you USE Gurughar and Gurbani just for the sake to complete your rituals ?

Dear Pai
Thanks for your heartfelt narrative.

Your content illustrates quite effectively the dark side of religion... Bigotry. A devout Sikh is going to believe RS, Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, Judaism and all other systems of belief about God and nature or non - God and philosophy of Man are all fake.

From that one's individual perspective view they are right.

Each must find what works for them and never impose their views upon others.

That's difficult to do. You were imposed upon. Now you judge millions of people in that faith you have never met. This is how bigotry, even warfare gets going. Generally it starts with someone trying to help you adopt their thinking "for your own good, " which is really just their own benefit. It's psychic blackmail.

Everyone likes their own place best.

And that's fine. So long as we adhere to a simple discipline of two Commandments, which you will also find in the Granth.

1.keep your whole heart focused on your own object of divinity / Truth. And that includes not one thought of negative judgment on any one else... Even yourself. No evaluation of how holy or objective any one else is. After all , our judgment is flawed. As a great Satsangi taught me, we all have feet of clay. My meditation to my Master consists largely of asking forgiveness, and freedom, from a crushing shame for the harm and pain my flaws have caused others. I'm not special. I just see myself. And am happy to get away for a while with my beloved Master every day. If I am so repulsed by me, when I rise from this shell in meditation, how can I fault any one else for anything? That would be hypocrisy. I'm intimate with it. My Master is my sanctuary.... From me. But part of that access is to see me, ugh. And to see the greater me, which isn't me at all but Him. Short course, focus on your own Truth, never on anyone else's perceived ignorance.

2. When you consider others, exercise the greatest capacity for kindness and loving acceptance without negative judgment possible. If we are all brothers and sisters, connected by our One Father... This creation, One Mother, this earth, then let's exercise that attitude that we are all equal, that Faith, though we may not understand how. Against our own standards they appear flawed. So let's put those standards aside completely when we view others. How can I comfort? How can I ease the pain of others? How can I understand and show my basic love and concern for those around me? Let this be our duty when we consider others. It makes it easier to do step 1 above.

Hi Pal

I said it often and repeat: the complete RSSB teachings are to connect yourself to the Shabd
which is ( they say also ) mentioned a million times in The Sri Adi Granth - i have the beautiful Gopal Singh Version
more enchanting than anything I read in my life

Every human being ( I'm stating ) , not only Sikhs can hear this sweet reverberating Music above the eyes
but a minimum of decency/compassion is required
if not the required chakras don't fully function
and religions : they have only hearsay of this Amrit you mention, which unifies us
and IS our Soul

What Gurinder is doing is offering help to start hearing because it's very tiny in the beginning
and further assist the 'willing'
Depending on former lives the process goes smoothly, oversized IQ can be a hindrance

Any Sikh Priest , Rebbi, or Faqir etc who can do this also, I consider of tremendous & equal value

Everything apart from hearing this fantastic Anahab Shabd in one's lifetime is bull shit

This music makes other desires in life meaningless
and the doses in rssb goes as if regulated by the latest quantum computers used for high frequency trading :-)

Concerning Gurinder, He is doing just and perhaps even unwillingly at times a difficult job
put on his shoulders and he is a kind of obedient to the MAUJ which I am so free to translate and I say it often here: "SERENDIPITIES"
something that Catholics call "MIRACLES" > > it is just as the Sound and also super sweet way The Eternal Source, communicates

Real Atheists don't need and have it perhaps once in a lifetime
Devotees of ANY religion have it regularly, . . . a God_Man like Jesus , Buddha or Guru Nanak , Kabir has it all the time.

There are tiny serendipities like you have a question and see the answer instantly on TV - stronger even when the TV at that moment stops and yr answer is frozen , displayed - wow

And very intense unbelievable series of serendipities of which I wrote here when I joined the group

A middle intense happening for instance, when me saying to my wife about beautiful inner Charan :
"I love HIM so much"
and we hear a loud noise immediately and a plane comes over our isolated house with a banner
" I love You Too " , . . . the love is written with a big red heart symbol.
I v still goose bumps because we live 10 KM of the Mediterranean beach where these planes with banners are normally active for advertising but it ain't was no summer - :
somebody with a love affair must have ordered that plane

I guess a SatGuru has these Goosebumps all the time

I' initiated 1966 and everything is true what was promised
Endlessly more than that - and I'm not even a good satsangi . . .


So, what I never do on Brians Blog . . . : Radha Soami to all readers, blessed to be here !

777


-

For those who are still in denial - I am pasting some of the details here

you can read the whole story at this link

http://www.unp.me/f15/radha-swami-satsang-beas-expose-business-dealings-65652/#ixzz20sgEaPG2

RSSB is clearly a corrupt and greedy organisation

otherwise why would they rip off poor people.

here's some of the story

Since the Sawan Sadan building had no lift (elevator), it became very difficult for his family members to carry him down two flights of steps. So the family decided to sell their flat and move to another in a building with a lift. They found a buyer and as is normal for people living in flats in Bombay, sought permission of their Housing Cooperative Society (because flats in buildings are bought cooperatively and the building maintained by its registered Society) which in the case was the Dera (RSSB).

To their surprise, Dera said, No, you can’t sell the flat to a non satsangi.

So they thought, as a family member told me last year, Dera is a religious society so they do not want meat eaters and alcohol drinkers.

So then they arranged to sell or trade the flat with a Satsangi who was living in a building with a lift and again asked the Dera, their housing society, for approval.

No, the Dera said, you can’t do that; we must first approve the Satsangi buyer.

They were dismayed and sought an explanation.

“You can’t sell your flat”.

‘The flat belongs to us, you are not Owners of the flat, you are only Occupants. The price you paid for the flat was not the purchase price but was to be treated as a deposit.”

The Satsangi owners were in disbelief. The found themselves in a strange predicament unheard of among flat owners in Bombay. They spoke to the Bombay Secretary, the Builder. Two of his blood brothers (not just satsangi brothers), had bought flats.

From family sources, I learnt that the Secretary discussed the situation with Maharaj Ji (Charan Singh). He told Maharaj Ji, “When the Satsangi had bought the flats, it was not so that they were to be Occupants and the purchase price was to be a Deposit.”

Maharaj Ji was unmoved.

(It did not matter that the Satsangi owners felt misled or misinformed and their equity (life savings) in a flat in Bombay was at stake. Or even that the devoted Satsangis, dependent for protection of their worldly as well as spiritual well-being on their Guru, could have made an honest mistake.)

‘No.”, Maharaj Ji said, “The Dera model must be followed. The Dera owns the property.”

The Secretary wilted, he could not stand up to Maharaj Ji. (He could not go against the RS teaching, the obedience to the Guru is paramount.)

A family member recalled to me last year. The Secretary came back from the meeting with Maharaj Ji and told his brother Satsangi owners, “Donate your flat to the Dera, you will get 10 times in return”.

The flat owners did not agree. It was a question of their life savings. One of the ladies of the family recalled the event and commented, “Donation is by choice, it is not forced”. Another lady said, “We were a large family, we saved with great difficulty to buy the flat.” One said, “It was not the Secretary who was being skinned”.

Instead, the Satsangi owners banded together and hired a lawyer.

The extended family of the Secretary was split. “Why had the brothers living in the flats disobeyed Maharaj Ji”. The brothers no longer had good relationships. This attitude even extended to their children, the cousins-one set looking down upon the other. Even in 2001 when I met some of them, there was alienation.

The Dera threatened one of the Owners who also had a house at the Dera, “Withdraw your suit or we will take away your Dera house”.

The suit was not withdrawn. The Dera house was forcibly taken away.

The Dera then started other intimidation tactics. A board was erected in front of the property saying that it belonged to the Dera and no one could engage in buying or selling the flats.

A Bombay RSSB committee member was chosen to front litigation. As a family member recalled, He told Baba Ji, “I am a Bombay flat owner…I know they have rights, how can I be a party to the case”.

“Do it,” Baba Ji said, “I am behind you”.

He submitted that and complied.

The paralyzed brother had died. Fortunately, his children had prospered in their business and constructed a house elsewhere.

The Dera then started tackling each owner separately. They persuaded the wealthy family to give up their double flat now worth nearly seventy times the original price, and promised them a flat at the Dera. The family did not want any more hassles and were wealthy enough to afford to donate it. The other owners pleaded with them, “You will break our band, and weaken our litigation, don’t settle”. They decided otherwise.

The other brother was forced to will his flat to the Dera.

The remaining owners until last month were still in litigation. Dera is trying other settlement tactics with them.

Last year, I asked a Bombay RSSB Committee member what he thought of the Sawan Sadan Satsangi flats case.

“Dera is wrong there”.

‘Then what did you do about it”.

“I expressed this opinion at a Board meeting.”

“That’s all”.

Silence ensued.
The old Bombay Secretary [Mr. Babani-my insert], a giant of man in business and organization skills and a famous Satsang orator, an RSSB pillar, known to many Westerners who attended Maharaj Ji’s programs in Bombay and saw him on Foreign tours, died last year, a mentally weakened man.

His son said he had Alzheimers but I found that while his recall was not good, some of his remarks were very intelligent. He was kept away from the ordinary Satsangis because he spoke things about RSSB, the management did not want ordinary Satsangis to hear. He had become critical of the RSSB.

He told me, “Now, Dera is making a fool of me. I will show them”.

I said, “I have left the Institution, you can do the same”.

“No”, he said, “it was easy for you, it is very difficult for me”.

Dr Johnson famously said
"The first thing I look for in a master is - is he a good human being - a person of good moral standards and character" (not an exact quote)
"and if he passes that test - then he might be a master"

now - anyone can see from this that the RSSB clearly fails in this example. They have no compassion. This applies to Charan Singh as well as Gurinder Singh.

And here's the real point:

If they are so spiritual and have great spiritual wealth, why are they ripping off poor people in india? Why not just let them sell their flats - and just impose the condition that it must be sold to a satsangi?

I will tell you why. Because of money.

I Jaimal singh was alive today - he would denouce RSSB. He had no interest even in making a well and told Sawan Singh that he would get bound to this place. Today RSSB is a religion the same as any other.

There is no truth left - it is now the same as following any other religion and the "living master" means nothing if that master is just a greedy person.

"Ripping off poor people" is not a quality of a true master


One initiated wrote:
To Manjit
"Today we are faced with the claim that God's Representative on earth is not only the first millionaire guru of all time, but that he is actually a multi-multi-millionaire with almost a billion dollars to his family name, seemingly earned solely because of his position as Guru of the Radhasoami religion."
My friend, why you are completely misleading the readers ?
Please bookmark and make note of all of your these comments, it will help you in future when you would want to come back and would want to get it corrected.
Further he wrote: To reet
private airplane: the airplane was gifted to the Master by the same relatives, ex-owners of the Ranbaxy pharmaceutical company and it has nothing to do with the . The Master lives completely on HIS own earnings and the pension which HE still receives from the company in Spain where HE used to work in the early years of HIS life.
….Is it a custom that the Master accepts such expensive gifts which require high maintenance and whether such gift was from the relatives because he was holding an influential position as GURU?
….Or his relatives ( ex-owners of Ranbaxy) gifted such expensive gifts to their other relatives as well who were not holding such position.
…Why and how this rumour has been circulated that the Master receives a pension from the company in Spain. He had worked few years for Balani’s in Spain, the company is dissolved long back, neither He receives any pension nor is he entitled to it. I am sure even Babaji would also confirm this if asked.

Spencer: - from your above comment -

"If I am so repulsed by me, when I rise from this shell in meditation, how can I fault any one else for anything?
My Master is my sanctuary.... From me. But part of that access is to see me, ugh."

This sounds so negative, such a victim mentality. Sounds like what you are expressing is a kind of false humility.

You then speak about considering others with kindness and loving acceptance without negative judgment possible.

What about considering YOURSELF with kindness and loving acceptance without negative judgment?

Victimhood, martyrdom! Religious nonsense!

777 - you say:

"Devotees of ANY religion have it regularly, . . . a God_Man like Jesus , Buddha or Guru Nanak , Kabir has it all the time."

God men. Enlightenment. All something to strive for... more religious claptrap!

Jen
You judge me. Your choice to go there.

I judge me too, but that's my privilege.

If I'm negative, it's about me.

But if you choose to be negative about me, that's a whole other story.

See rule 2 above.

Ha Ha Jen Wow

Claptrap is using texts for one particular religion

I promoted (in a way ) all founders ( not the banksters later )

From where their decisiveness came?

777

-
-

HiHi Jen Again ,


""God men. Enlightenment. All something to strive for... more religious claptrap!""

No, Not at all,
only somebody who's unhappy . . . . :-)


777

Wouldn't be such a bad idea
when un-happy
Never Die, . . be invulnerable, often in super crush, that goes rhythmic and ever grows
I m pro
pro-deo :-)

_

777 you say:

"only somebody who's unhappy . . . . :-)"

I'm glad you are happy. You're lucky. I have always suffered from depression. Anyway, no big deal. Life sucks!

Juan

Really ? Are you that moved by the fact that why the True Master flies in a gifted airplane ?
So in the given world what would you best expect on HIS travels ? Can you explain a little - like third class non a/c trains? regular eco flights ? business flights ? what would you be "OK" with ?

I would like to ask you - what do you ask the Lord (if you believe in any form/formless Lord) - what kind of comfort do you seek in your prayers for yourself/your kids/your parents - do you really ask to be blessed always with lots of troubles for you and your loved ones. How do you travel from one place to another ? do you take third class non a/c train. I am sure you won't - and not anyone in the known and unknown worlds.
But we are surely critical enough to demand the maximum discomforts for our (and others') Masters.

Juan, it's not about their relatives being billionaire's and gifting the airplane to the Master. This is really the Sewa. If we try to observe by love and understand how difficult is the life for HIM, the Master ? Can you imagine doing these so many trips domestic and foreign throughout the year ?

What do you think, is it fun for HIM to travel in a private airplane throughout the country month over month ? No, it's not. HE has to bear a lot of pain and put in a lot of efforts to accomplish this all. It's not an easy task.
HE is doing it, like most SAINTs rightly have done - lots and lots of trips for the betterment of lots and lots of people around the country and the world.

So essentially even the airplane as a gift is truly working towards the help of the Sangat all over - if you think deeply you will understand it's not really a gift, it's indeed a sewa of the sangat.

There are other millionaires as well (a couple of them I personally know) who have donated quite some funds which have all been used for the Sangat. Just visit the Beas and you will know how and where the funds are going, how much comfortable the stay for Sangat is now.
Of course the airplane is something which is too big of an object and attracts the open eyes of criticism, whereas there is no other account being shared on who has donated how much and which particular building/hostel was created with which kind of funds ? Because it's all for the Sangat - really zero discrimination there.

It's correct that everyone's got his own perspective, and I can only request you to not to hold such a harsh perspective towards the Master.

I know earlier it was some special treatment to foreigners concerning their hostel stay etc - which always sounded fair to me given the fact the level of expense/efforts/time the foreigners bear to come over to see the Master.
I won't call it discrimination, I'd call it a token of love and respect.
But, truly, Babaji has take a great leap and started building the same level of hostels for everyone. Now anyone from any part of India can apply for hostel.

Love to everyone.

Some people in the comment section are like Indians can sit in the front too, you just have to show up like 5 hours early. Why is that ? Just because you travelled on what 14-22 hour long flight ? What about the poor Indians that travel by old buses or in general compartments of trains for 2-4 days from southern or eastern parts of India . Why should they come 5 hour early to sit in the front when they have had an obviously more uncomfortable and tiring journey compared to you. Note, most of them also cannot come to dera as frequently because even this kinda of travel is expensive for them and they cannot afford it often. So they do discriminate based on where you are from, actually kinda of more like based on wether you are donating dollars or Indian Rupees.
I have often heard satsangi says “Babaji is Glowing” .
I think if you wear all white and grow a grey beard, you can glow too after all, white color does reflect the most light. Eyes sees what they want to see.
No, I don’t want anyone in the world to be a beggar. The lavish lifestyle enjoyed by the guru is however a bit too much. Sangat is told to live simple/ minimalistic type of lifestyle, but the Guru travels in high end luxury cars and private airplanes. You say he should be comfortable as he is the Guru. But shouldn’t he be comfortable travelling even in economy class as he is god in human form/ or God? The cost of running private jet you could adopt a small village in India or atleast a few kids?
RSSB does own 3 small charitable hospitals. Besides that I do not know of any other charitable activities. Constructing more hostels and buildings for keeping the sangat comfortable is not charity. Its more of growing an organisation and influence. Also when you earn 1000 bucks and give 10 to charity, its not charity.
No one has luck after years of meditation. Have you ever seen anything ? Please do not say “ I have, But I cannot tell you about my experience as his grace will go or you have to experience it yourself to be able to explain it “.Bullcrap.
Most of the people in India, majority of them are illiterate therefore gullible. The literate ones following the cult are superstitious and have a herd mentality or they are weak and don’t have faith in themselves and scared to be alone and need some kind of support to fall back on. A lot of you might not know but India is a country of godmen and godwomen, they all claim to be gods in human form and have even a larger following than RRSB and most of them now have been convicted of crimes such as fraud and even murder.
Cancer is bad disease like many other diseases . It sucks to have it, no one should ever get it. But I still don’t understand how someone claiming to be “god in human form” got it. Isn’t he the one suppose to be curing cancer or at least be able to cure himself ? Now you would say its because of our Sins. Okay, but why is he going to another country to get his treatments ? Why not in India ? Can’t he make chemo or radiation from anywhere work on him because we are talking about god. So many can’t even afford basic treatments in India yet their guru is going to Singapore for treatments. Does not make sense to me.
To other comments, I would love to reply back but I don’t have a lot of time on my hands and the commenters you shouldn’t either. Shouldn’t you be meditating ? How do you get the time to write all these long posts. I believe this blog site is for people who realized that RSSB is a big fraud . You obviously believe in it still. So got back to bhajan and your god in human form can defend himself and doesn’t care. He does not need you defending him.

Reet
I get your concern for those poor souls you think are ignorant victims.

But could it be that without those victims your grinding axe would disappear? And then, without an argument, what is left of your identity?

Are you helping them? Or just yourself? And does this actually help even you?

Ask them first. They may be in sheer ecstacy every moment in those busses, on those dusty roads, out under the stars at night in the sides of the road, and drenched in rain and mud the next morning. Waiting in blissful anticipation all those precious hours.

Ask them before making them wrong merely to fuel your argument. They are people after all, human beings, making their own choices. They deserve that much respect.

You are free to help them, really to help anyone, if you can actually help anyone, and that would be the best use of your precious hours, presuming you have helped yourself, and can at least stand up, in harmony and peace, on your own two legs.


Reet

You have probably overdosed yourself with hatred and not even thinking rational.

If at all you have a capacity to read/hear/accept this:
This earth couldn't have function anymore if HE had not taken the cancer on HIMSELF.

"Why should the come early to sit in front" - Reet, you are really irrational here. Even if eveyrone appears at the exact same time at Satsang - the volunteers would only be able to allow a certain number of sangat to sit in the front enclosure.

Even if you go to a live show auditorium which doesn't have a seat booking and is based on first come basis, you need to appear early in order to sit in front. They are not going to ask your monthly income. They will just offer you the required seat only if it's vacant. I think you are just overly imagining things here.

Why public Indian figures are given special enclosure is I have already explained. It's like they are not allowed to sit with the general sangat.

Your bullcrap comment may apply to the statements I have mentioned about myself. But what about the other legit ones ? Trust me, I am even worse than bullcrap and it'd not be worth reading what I am not sharing. So yeah, bullcrap is justified and it's an un understatement for me.
But, what can anyone do if you have decided to ignore the clear statements of the persons who are clearly sharing their inner experience?
Did you get a chance to read these following comments:

Dear Reet, even I wonder why it got so late to have the fake gurus got exposed! Not only India, this whole world is full of fake gurus. But, your comparison of RSSB with those fake ones is unjustified. It's like if an engineer has committed a crime, all engineers are criminals. Rational?
Try to observe what's happening here: the fake are exposed because they were not even the guru in the first place. They were really there to make money than anything else.

If you are really comparing it with RSSB - you need to wide open your eyes and you will see there is really no comparison. If you are at Beas, you will realize that there is never ever a slightest emphasis over the money. Again to repeat, you holding a million dollars even won't earn you a bedding at the Hostel if you have not timely applied for it. They simply don't ask you your income and not even ask you if you are initiated or a follower of RSSB or not. You are simply welcome there... talking about fake gurus, if you really want to investigate - just take out some time and visit those places and observe the vibration of the fake places you will understand the difference.

Building hostels and welcoming everyone to live for free, have free lunch and free dinner is not charity what you said. You tell me reet, how would you help a poor or a hungry person - offer them food wouldn't you ?
As I mentioned earlier, the lunch and dinner (complete meal) is accessible to every single person of this world throughout the year for free. It's not a small thing.

On one hand you are saying HE is not offering the poor ones to site in front enclosure (which is false by itself as nothing related to money is asked at the time of sitting arrangement - it's first come basis) - on other hand you are downplaying the fact that anyone from poor to rich to middle class can apply for the hostel and receive a wonderful accommodation without paying a bit. What exactly is it that you are complaining for ?

Building hospitals for poor - providing the medical facility without any cost - without asking if you are follower of RSSB or not - You underplayed the hospitals saying it's only 3 of them so far. Really ?
So it means you agree that running charitable hospitals is good thing but total number 3 is not so good enough at this point. You need to introspect. If you are a capable one, can you count how many number of poor medically unfit persons you have helped in your lifetime to get proper cure from a hospital?

Besides there are many more things which are always restricted to be covered by the media. Want to read it ?
I can't mention the never-ending list here, but you will be surprised to know that in case of every single natural calamity - RSSB sends over both manual and financial help rightly on time (without banners and labels - strictly prohibited).

Remember the earthquake at Gujrat - destroying several villages? You will be surprised to know that enormous help was provided by RSSB in reconstructing those villages. Unimaginable man hours were put together by so many RSSB volunteers and by HIS grace 6 villages - which were totally ruined - were fully up and running in around 2-3 months of time. It is still a great achievement. Any media coverage of that was strictly prohibited. Even many public political figures visited that area to meet and greet the sewadars but they were strictly said that cameras are not allowed. I don't want to name these figures because you might think that it's an honor for the sewadars to receive the greetings from the known figures. No - they were doing it simply for the love of Babaji. I do have personal contacts who are lucky to have given their sewa for this.

The land slide in Leh Laddakh - it was such a bad situation - it was difficult for anyone to send help over there. Babaji sent over the help and many sewadars working together in HIS Love, built up the huge dormitories in the span of few weeks. If you are really inquisitive, you can still visit that site and see the dorms yourself. You may also want to discuss the situation with the locals.

You are a little wrong here I would say. I think Brian has never mentioned that this blog is only for those who are against RSSB. And if he is allowing the comments from various commenters - and if you are posting a comment here, you only should have the audacity to receive the comments on your comments - this only sounds fair ? Isn't it ?

Yes dear reet, thanks for reminding that to me, I should be meditating instead of posting comments here. I love HIM but I am a bad meditator. Just that it's an interesting place to spend some time while being online.

Lots of Love to everyone.

~OI

One Initiated, what tags do you use to get those bullet points in your comment?

he he - that was a nice funny punch in the middle of all these comments 😀

Thumbs up for the love for formatted content 👍 😉

You need to wrap all the points in "ul" and each single point in "li"
"ul" stands for "unordered list" and "li" stands for "list item"

For example, you need to do it like tihs:

<ul>
<li>Point 1: Bhai parapat manus di huriya, Govind milan ki eh teri bariya</li>
<li>Point 2: Avar kaaj tere kite na kaam, mil saadh sangat bhaj keval naam</li>
</ul>

and the output will be like:

  • Point 1: You are blessed with the human body this time, dedicate this birth to meet HIM
  • Point 2: No other worldly job will help you, accompany the saints and meditate NAAM

P.S. I have taken measures to show the above code to appear as code and not render as the output the first section of the example, but when you normally use the "ul" and the "li" tags - they will rightly render as bullet points.

P.S2 I am guessing a little that you are curious to know how to add the smileys 🙃 in the comments ❓Are you ❓


🙏 Radha Soami Ji 🙏

~OI

This rssb cult has brain washed so many people. Some are saying that they did that in gujrat and punjab and serve free food. First of all they use Gurbani in their satsangs and brainwash people but their main motive is add more and more people in to their cult. Guru granth sahib ji is the only guru for sikhs. But this cult uses gurbani to lure people of punjab and brainwash them. Their cult head Dhillon, whatever his spoons calls him or a god in human form crap wants to give them naam daan which no one can share with anyone.

Namdan is Total crap.
If you know something thats good for humanity, why cant they share it with anyone?

If they are so generous than why this dera is bothering the nearby residents of dera to sell their homes and making their lifes miserable. Anybody can check this from punjabs newspapers with pics. They have made it hard for people to live in those area just to expand the dera. This cult is just a land mafia.

And free food is not a rssb thing. Sikh history can prove this.

Why dhillon is afraid of the camera? Can anybody tell me?

I feel bad for those brainwashed families those go there every sunday and listen to there crap and call him god.

All i know is if i dont do anything wrong in this world and do good for all without any discrimination, i am happy with that. That serves my purpose. I dont have to go to any dera or satsang to learn these things.

but i just hate these double faced people who say they are sikhs but call this fag a god in human form and their guru. They use sikhism just so they fullfil their rituals like weddings in gurughar, nothing else.

My main prblem with Gurinder is that he is a control freak. He took away the home satsangs, which were sweet and intimate, and demanded people travel many miles to attend satsang at a "center," with a discourse read by an anointed individual. The books were recalled and unavailable for a time. Rules rules rules. No trust in the brothers and sisters to conduct themselves without ever increasing rules.

I'm not his initiate. He's running a big business, and I chose not to continue.


  • Ah, got it.
  • Thanks, One Initiated.
  • As for smileys, I generally like my text neat -- as in “drunk neat” (*insert smiley!*) -- and wholly without emojis, even where a whole gaggle of them are just waiting to be had with one single click of the index finger. But since you bring it up, do show me the smiley tag as well, it’ll be nice to know!
  • Incidentally, I used to think that “ul” stands for ‘underline’, and had tried “u”-ing and “ul”-ing away a few times in the past to get my text underlined, before giving it up as a bad job. So do you know the tags for underlining as well? And, while we’re at it and if you know about it, numbered lists as well?
  • I liked how you illustrated the use of bullet points, by the way. Putting in those particular HIndi quotes, I mean, and having your output come out in English. Given the nature and content of the larger discussion here, that was witty of you.
  • Thank you, and cheers!

JAY said :

"""" I feel bad for those brainwashed families those go there every sunday and listen to there crap and call him god. """"


The RSSB-ers said to me half a century ago to do what the SRI GURU GRANTH advises
on each page
which is Listen to the Anahabad Shabd Sound Stream like in Jap Ji so many times
Please read that

Then the Sound came and IT reverberates 24/7

My whole life changed by that super phenomenon
and everything turned in Blossom and Bloom,

exactly as Guru Nanak predicted - No death anymore, Invulnerability, Bliss & Beauty Elixer all over all places , . . . increasing permanently


Would you take that away from me if U could


777

-
ps
To ever writing Osh

Guru Nanak , also in JapJi:

"" So says Nanak , The Lowliest of the Lowly, . . sacrifice I am unto Thee Oh Holy """

Like Charan He said He understood no iota and felt worthless
So, let's forget about Sikhs, . . their founders all acknowledge / advise it's zero

Beware of teachers telling that they understand even a piece


777


Esther Nolin,

I agree with you about the tight control of the sangat especially in not allowing the home satsangs. They were very enjoyable in the old days. Also not even having a cup of tea after satsang now. The guru does not want to have any socialising it seems. Why? Its difficult enough being so different living a satsangi lifestyle.

Its taken me a long time to wake up and realise that the teachings of Sant Mat are all about playing on people's insecurities and helplessness. Its about being rescued, saved from this life of misery (thats how I got hooked). I've never met any joyful satsangis. Its all about discipline and giving away one's personal power to a guru which also creates this weird kind of false humility and a holier than thou attitude.

Can any Rssb follower tell me why this naam daan thing is so secretive? Why cant you guys share with anybody?

If its that good as you guys praise all the time, then why not tell the whole world and let them take advantage of it?

Everybody knows that rssb is land grab shark only. Why dera is keep bothering the nearby residents of dera to vacant their lands?


But no followers of this cult dont see the pain those people have to go through everyday.

anybody can go and visit villages near dera and see the miserable life of those people.

10th Guru of sikhs said that Guru Granth sahib is the true guru. Not sure how these brainwashed people call gsd a guru and still go to gurughar for their weddings. If that dera is everything for them, then why dont they go and do their rituals over there?

Do they just like to use gurbani in satsangs so they can lure more sikhs in to thier cult and use gurughar for their weddings and nothing more than that?


AR

The tag u is no longer supported by the latest standards for underlining by default unless the platform rendering the code has specific support for it, and the typepad which Brian is using for this website doesn't support it. So, it's not available to be used.

Just as you used "ul" with "li" ... you can use "ol" with "li" - here "ol" is ordered list which will convert bullets to numbers.


Jay

Naamdaan is not mere words - had it been so simple as a writable/speakable words - it would have been so easier for everyone in the world to realise The One.
Every word has an amazing force of the True Naam being given by the Master.. which works on subtle level and not visible in the Physical World unless you are blessed with that receptor in physical world.

(Osho - the receptor is not embedded in everyone yet to see Babaji getting morphed into Maharaj Ji. You can not even see that receptor if you don't have the receptor. I think you must have read the story used on various occasions by Osho Rajneesh about the blind village where everyone was blind and they were not able to believe there can be something like "eye" and there is something like "visibility"... I feel it's the same argument you are giving by nullifying others' experiences of seeing Babaji changing appearance into Maharaj Ji.)

At the time of giving NaamDaan, the Master cleanse plethora of the karmas of the disciple - for HE is capable to do so.
You sharing the NaamDaan with other - means you are giving NaamDaan to others - would eventually mean you are taking their karmas and you are posing yourself as Guru, which certainly you are not capable of doing and consequently turn out to be something else for you. That's why it's been said to not to do that... and it should be done by the Master who is merged with The One.

I shared on this website an incident from Huzur Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj a couple times - sharing it again here:
Once a disciple asked Huzur Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj -

disciple: "Huzur, I came to know that Sant Garib Das said that a Master should not start giving NaamDaan unless he has reached Par Brahm"
huzur: "That's ok. But, I would say a Master should not start giving Naam Daan unless HE has reached Sach Khand"

Now let's come to your viewpoint: So you say if something is good why not share with everyone in the world. So I would want to ask you: If you think that it is good - why do you find it difficult to go to the feet of the Master and ask for initiation and receive the NaamDaan direct from the source of Naam?

RSSB is not a land shark. Babaji creating the various centers as the preparation for saving millions of human beings, the horrendous future of this planet is slowly getting nearer. And in the process RSSB is rightly paying the individuals.
Also as mentioned when a work is being carried out by the True Master - and someone who has to bear the difficulties in the process - receives in return in the mega multiples of what's being given.


The proceedings of a religion orient us to think in a certain way and at times even makes us completely irrational.

So the bigger question here for you:
As you have mentioned about the Adi Granth, you must have known that Adi Granth was being compiled (and partially written as well) by the 5th Guru - Arjun Dev Ji Maharaj. And if Adi Granth was to be considered as the next Guru thereafter what was the need for the other 5 Gurus to reincarnate and that the 10th Guru only said Adi Granth as the next Guru ? Does that mean that even the great author - Guru Arjun Dev Ji didn't consider the Granth to be Guru ?

It's high time to rethink deeply on your false beliefs.

Understanding this bit is I would say even simpler than a liner equation - it doesn't even have two variables to solve for - it's just one variable and you are not even able to do a simple mathematics of addition and subtraction.

You can print as many copies of The Granth as you want. can't you ? Is that how a Guru should be ? - You call something which is printable under the printing machine as Guru ?

Why Guru Govind Singh Ji Maharaj designated The Granth as Guru - is to tell the Sangat - especially to HIS initiates - (in absence of the next Guru) to follow what's written in the Granth - that's on literally every single page - that is: to listen to the Sound Current.
Also the countless times it's mentioned to go under the feet for the Living Master.
Do you understand that The Granth is a book ? A non-living entity ? ... and not a living being even - let alone to be considered a Living Master.

As funny as it can get: the other day I was listening/watching on TV to a Gurubani session going on in a Gurudwara and after that a person started explaining some verses. And there was a verse about the "Guru Charnan Ki Dhool" - i.e. about putting the dust of the feet of the Master on your forehead. It's not literal - but it's the explanation of the inner realms indeed. And what a level of misinterpretation a person could go is I realise when the person started sharing one of his experience that once he opened The Granth and in b/w the pages he found some dust there and he immediately put that dust on his forehead and that his verse of "Guru Charnan Ki Dhool" was accomplished for him that day.

Without doubt Adi Granth is an amazing compilation - Soami Ji Maharaj gave discourses throughout their life from Adi Granth itself and it's bani is used a lot at RSSB - I have several parts of The Granth separately translated in hindi and english and I always enjoy reading it, but calling The Granth a Guru is not what the Masters taught.

One Initiated wrote:
Juan
Really ? Are you that moved by the fact that why the True Master flies in a gifted airplane ?
So in the given world what would you best expect on HIS travels ? Can you explain a little - like third class non a/c trains? regular eco flights ? business flights ? what would you be "OK" with ?

Juan…. Sorry! .I came across your comments yesterday. No I’m not at all moved. With all that money pouring in as Sewa, why would the Master travel by third class train, or regular flights.
The public wants stories and the inner circle have to spread stories to hold the faithful and less faithful in the fold.

I simply agree with the point raised by Manjit in his comments that the Guru has seemingly earned all the money because of his position as Guru of the Radhaswami religion. –“Trafficing Influence”. IMO Manjit is not misleading the readers. How could a Guru on Gaddi work to live on his own income when he has given up his job etc. to administer/rule/lead the organization.

Would he have received the airplane as a gift( if it is so) if he was not in position of the Guru? ..Was it not because of his position as Guru of the Radhasoami religion? ..Did He not make all these millions or billions whatsoever only after being in the position of the Guru? ..Is it not quite normal for anyone while dealing with him in business consider his position of Guru of a leading and fast growing Religion and treat him favourably? Would he have received that extra special favours in business dealings? It’s simple NO..

It was you who raised the issue of The airplane. Why and how the sangat has got this information that the airplane has been gifted by his relatives. Is the sangat informed of the funds from Sewa? Aren’t the funds from sewa enough that GSD has to rely on his relatives for this paltry amount? Or is it your wishful thinking? Or this is another story created by the inner circle making a way for the next successor from the family?
Would it make any difference if the airplane is purchased from the Sewa income?
I don’t care at all whether it was gifted by his relatives (I doubt if it is true) or it was bought from the seva money.

The sangat is also misinformed that the Guru is living on his own income, getting a pension from his ex-employer. Is it because the Sangat with fragile faith is not comfortable that the Guru lives on the Sewa funds by the faithful? Isn’t it all about POWER, MONEY and to hold the control of the organization and public under the fold?
I also agree with nearly all the points raised by Reet.

OI….I would like to ask you - what do you ask the Lord (if you believe in any form/formless Lord) - what kind of comfort do you seek in your prayers for yourself/your kids/your parents - do you really ask to be blessed always with lots of troubles for you and your loved ones. How do you travel from one place to another ? do you take third class non a/c train. I am sure you won't - and not anyone in the known and unknown worlds.
But we are surely critical enough to demand the maximum discomforts for our (and others') Masters.

Juan….I don’t have to ask anything from any Lord. I’m sure if there is any he would be doing his job.
There are no Masters in discomfortable situation, some of them even in prisons are living a lavish life.If not All, nearly all the Masters, have plentiful resources to buy maximum comforts, and none of them would leave the Gaddi nor those comforts till death.

OI…Juan, it's not about their relatives being billionaire's and gifting the airplane to the Master. This is really the Sewa. If we try to observe by love and understand how difficult is the life for HIM, the Master ? Can you imagine doing these so many trips domestic and foreign throughout the year ?
What do you think, is it fun for HIM to travel in a private airplane throughout the country month over month ? No, it's not. HE has to bear a lot of pain and put in a lot of efforts to accomplish this all. It's not an easy task.

Juan….He would be the proper person to say whether it is fun for him or not, whether he enjoys his work or not. I can imagine it is being difficult because the younger generation especially not from satsangi family have always doubts and questions without proper logical answers by the Master. Is it not because of this that the recordings or taking notes etc. is forbidden?

OI…HE is doing it, like most SAINTs rightly have done - lots and lots of trips for the betterment of lots and lots of people around the country and the world.

Juan….You know better. How many Saints do you know who have been travelling around the country and around the world in their airplanes?

OI….So essentially even the airplane as a gift is truly working towards the help of the Sangat all over - if you think deeply you will understand it's not really a gift, it's indeed a sewa of the sangat.

Juan….If the airplane is for the sewa of the sangat, then why the sangat has to hear the stories that it has been gifted by Babaji’s relatives?

OI…There are other millionaires as well (a couple of them I personally know) who have donated quite some funds which have all been used for the Sangat. Just visit the Beas and you will know how and where the funds are going, how much comfortable the stay for Sangat is now.

Of course the airplane is something which is too big of an object and attracts the open eyes of criticism, whereas there is no other account being shared on who has donated how much and which particular building/hostel was created with which kind of funds ? Because it's all for the Sangat - really zero discrimination there.

Juan….The incoming funds are not at all declared to the Sangat. I do agree the stay for many is becoming comfortable, but the overwhelming masses are still left to their fate.
Do you know who can appoint another successor? Only the present Master- and that also from his own family.

I’ve been visiting Beas since childhood, it’s only few years I haven’t been there. I was even there the day when Hazur Charan Singh died. I had been to Delhi this March and attend Babaji’s Satsang in Spain as well.

I have not any exact idea about how much funds are incoming

OI…It's correct that everyone's got his own perspective, and I can only request you to not to hold such a harsh perspective towards the Master.

Juan…. I attend satsangs every week and Babaji’s satsangs as well every year, believe me I have absolutely no harsh perspective towards the Master and not even against any other Masters Present or Past. On the contrary IMO these Masters have full right to live a luxury life.

OI…I know earlier it was some special treatment to foreigners concerning their hostel stay etc - which always sounded fair to me given the fact the level of expense/efforts/time the foreigners bear to come over to see the Master.
I won't call it discrimination, I'd call it a token of love and respect.

Juan…The difference will always remain. If you call it a token of love and respect, then it is absolutely fair.

OI….But, truly, Babaji has take a great leap and started building the same level of hostels for everyone. Now anyone from any part of India can apply for hostel.

Juan….The hostels I’ve heard are comfortable. though I’ve not stayed there since last four decades. Anyone from any part of India can apply for hostel, but do they get it? Very few!.

But what about the poor masses who have high hopes and love for the master. Even in Dera do you happen to know any Maid working full time in houses earning more than $2.00 (two) per day.
Is it easy for the poor people from the nearby villages pass through the control to get the food at langar or they face some obstacles if they are frequenting without doing any Sewa?

One Initiated may be your perspective be different if you just see the Master as a normal Head of an organization and not some divine being.

Love to all, Radhasoami.

Juan

If one starts to doubt even the basic integrity of a Sant/Master, then one might as well crumple the whole concept of "Sant" or "Master" into a nice ball and pitch it in the basket.
How much integrity do we expect of a Sant? 100%,? Heck, maybe 76% would be OK? So that is the deeper issue here isn't it? Is there such a thing as Masterly, Santly perfection in conduct? And if there IS Santly Perfection, what does perfection act like, what does it look like where the rubber meets the road? Does anybody even know? I have seen a lot of things that make me worry, and my thoughts bloat in disbelief and concern. I feel to try and overlook those things or rationalize them is pitiful and in my opinion simply dangerous, because there comes that slippery slope and potential free-fall into cult mentality...and superstition and magical thinking....not to mention tempting a nasty case of cognitive dissonance.

Is there even such a thing as a Sant? Is this an old-fashion notion that a mere human can transmogrify into something parallel on on par with......(dare I say it)..........God?

Juan,

The common sense is missing here in many points.

Exactly, it actually doesn't even matter if the airplane was gifted or bought from the Sewa. In either way it's a Sewa for the Sangat.

I am talking about the True Masters, not the ones you are referring who are in the prisons.

Calibrating cancer on HIMSELF for the world is not something you'd call a luxury... yeah, but, only if you have slight acceptance of this fact. Otherwise, like the exers and non-believers it's a good reason to pin point the fingers on the Master yet again. I couldn't agree more with Jim where he mentioned HE has taken cancer on HIM for the betterment of the world and even keeping HIS dignity at stake - which I think so rightly been executed by the critiques. It's truly sad to observe.

Most of the True Masters have moved countless places in their lifetime is what I meant, I didn't mean in planes or private airplanes - that'd have been not possible in earlier times - If we simply apply our common sense we can comprehend this but not when we are sitting there just to criticize whether it sounds even logical or not.

About hostel: "but do they get it? Very few!"
Like reet, it appears that you are mentioning just for criticizing it not having any backing to your point. It's completely missing the common sense again.
If there are 100 rooms available, they can accommodate only 100 first coming people/families, I couldn't understand what is so hard to understand there?

Considering the financial status, we belong to the Indian middle class category and I simply apply for the hostel accommodation on a written application whenever I visit with my family including my parents and mostly I am allotted with hostel whenever I apply timely, on some occasions I get allotted the Sarai. That's plain and simple.
Off course, for my family including my older parents and given with their medical conditions it's not possible for them to stay at sheds (huge dorms), so I just cancel the program when we are not allotted with the hostels and wait for our next turn.
When I travel alone I don't apply for any accommodation and just stay at the sheds as I personally don't feel the dire need of the hostel.

I totally disagree with Manjit's comment about the Master as I had already mentioned, if you traverse the history of how the Ranbaxy started by producing a very small injection and growing by months and years and it has taken great deal of effort to have reached to a recognizable position, it's all legacy and decades long efforts.
And just mentioning vaguely that Master has benefitted because of being the Master and not mentioning anything about how this legacy was created is actually misleading to the new readers who doesn't know about the historical efforts. Those who are actually insulting the Master for all these points, when given pointers about the great things being carried out by RSSB - they simply try to ignore it, not respond on it and some like reet being so absurd to even tell that running 3 charitable hospitals which provide non-discriminative medical treatment is a little less.
I mean it's just like being stupid and pointing fingers on HIM for any absurd reason and calling HIM names.

Juan, you mentioned about visiting Delhi and attending Master's Satsang every year. So I didn't understand your mixed perspective of supporting the critiques and otherwise.
Is that a feeling of self satisfaction and proving how practical I am ? If I am myself baselessly criticizing my Master still maintaining that I am HIS follower ?
That expression was beyond my capacity to comprehend. Can you please elaborate that?

You probably do not have enough insights about the socioeconomic setup of India. The salaries of even the engineers here are lower than what's there in US for maids. The starting salary of engineers in well known corporates is < $1k per month working for 8-10 hours a day.
The whole setup is slowly improving but I think it's going to take many more decades for this situation to improve. It's a big socioeconomic reform which involves various factors to be looked through and improved upon, putting RSSB at blame wouldn't help.
As far as helping the poor is concerned, I have always found out that RSSB is doing great work proactively going out of their capacity along with the prime focus on the spiritual upliftment.

You are big time mistaken, you do not have slightest idea what are the set of karmas every disciple is going through and due to which s/he is given the current role to play.
You need not to pity the poor Juan, for you don't know what's their inner state is.
In my childhood days we were quite struggling financially (we are living much much better now and all by HIS grace) and during my father's childhood days the family was living below the poverty line (and the poverty line is extremely low in India).
My grandfather and ancestors were quite well financially before the partition of India and Pakistan and they had good enough properties in the now Pakistan. They were initiates of Sawan Singh Ji Maharaj.
They had to leave everything and migrate to India only to find themselves homeless and jobless (just like the story of many North Indian Residents.)
My grandmother used to work as a maid in the neighborhoods (for < $1 per month). She was Charan Singh Maharaj's initiate and what a beautiful relation she had with HIM without having met HIM personally even once (refer here Osho). I can go on mentioning her spectacular inner and outer experiences still living a financially weak life with amazing happiness throughout the life.
She told my mother about her death's date and time 2 days in advance, she told my father for calling all her closed ones - some relatives and some special friends from Satsang as well - I remember she was not too ill to die, I remember seeing all of them and they were all there the day she had to pass - and my mother received graceful darshan of Sawan Singh Ji, Jagat Singh Ji and Charan Singh Ji Maharaj.

Juan, I can not see HIM as a normal head of an organisation for a little I know(and experienced) by HIS grace that HE is The One and not just a normal human being... thus only I am commenting here. So there is no question of "if you just see" because it'd be a wrong and incorrect and false starting of the whole discussion.


Lots of Radha Soami Love.


~OI



Bulle Shah Ji:
❝ Guru jo chahe so karda ae.
Guru khali bhande bharda ae.
Guru bhare nu vi khali karda ae.
Guru jo chahe so karda ae.❞
Master does as HE wish. HE fills the empty vessels, HE empties the filled ones. Master does as HE wish.

For all you believers.

Ask yourself why Radha Soami is accumulating so much property.

I read the story of Babani getting depressed when he realized that RS is greedy. Taking property from poor people.

That is not a sign of a master.

It's not even the sign of a good moral human.

Dr Johnson says if a person is not a good person he cannot be a master.

How come nobody has the balls to ask the guru these questions.

Give him a chance to reply if he can.

I am sorry but this is not spirituality.

The guru clearly has the priority of earning lots of money hence his sons are rich.

And when exactly did he meditate like swami ji did 17 years.

How many years did this master do?

It is all rubbish. No spiritual path.

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