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May 28, 2014

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https://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/26/weekinreview/conversations-timothy-leary-death-s-door-message-tune-turn-drop.html

Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage, rage against the dying of the Light.

If there's no free will, of what use is advice about how to live a "full" life? Is your life emptier because you can't do anything about it? Is it fuller because you believe you can? Are "you" anything more than memory and impersonation?

The way I see it (because I have no choice) is that offering up advice about how to live a full life is just as determined as the rest of life.

So someone who gives a TEDx talk about this is doing it because of previous causes and effects, just as everything else in existence is -- animate or inanimate.

There's no way out of the no-free-will maze.

Which makes the cosmos wonderfully interconnected. If someone believes they are free of the maze, that belief is happening inside the maze. Ditto with someone believing they are part of the maze.

If someone believes they are free of the maze, that belief is happening inside the maze. Ditto with someone believing they are part of the maze.

The "maze" is theoretical...only with free will can one know if its real or imagined.

All we have are theories, conjecture, reasonable assumptions, likely possibilities, etc. We don't really know what's going on, how or why, so all any reasonable person can do is live with uncertainty.

Brian,

How are you defining "free" will? It's an expression that can/could have various meanings.

"........,so all any reasonable person can do is live with uncertainty."

---Reasonable and living with uncertainty are relative terms. How reasonable is your uncertainty?

How are you defining "free" will?

The illusion of being a free agent while being helplessly determined by conditioning and genetics to do what one does.


Reasonable and living with uncertainty are relative terms. How reasonable is your uncertainty?

How reasonable is your belief in the efficacy of prayer, Roger?

"cc" person,

An "efficacy" of prayer doesn't need any reason-able belief. Prayer being an expression of good possible happenings.

And,

To have an illusion of "free" will, one would need to have one's definition of free will. You clearly have no free will in your comments. That said, free will is still just an expression, nothing more.

Speaking of "one's definition", to say that prayer is "an expression of good possible happenings" is either ignorant or dishonest.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prayer

"cc" person,

Your personal speaking(s) of what one's definition or meaning shows how looney a person you really are. A true lunatic.

I'm not saying you are either ignorant or dishonest. I'm referring to your lunatic comments that find their origin within your brain.

If you're going to call me a name, Roger, using the the one I called you in my comment of May 9, indicates either a lack of originality or a poor memory...or both.

You say "I don't like to think about death".

From your previous blogs it seems that you now are more happy with the idea that death is very final. This concept would make a materialistic person very happy in that there is no accountability after death.

I sense some fear though because you might just discover after you die that Sant Mat is correct and even though you have had a very easy life this time around in comparison to many other people, it may not be so pleasant in the next.

Yes, we can't prove life after death exists but then we can't disprove it either. So its easy to indulge in lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego if you can get away with it, but will there be a payback time in the next life?

We all make mistakes in life :

Gary Cooper was producer David O. Selznick's first choice for the role of Rhett Butler in Gone with the Wind (1939). When Cooper turned down the role, he was passionately against it. He is quoted as saying, "Gone with the Wind is going to be the biggest flop in Hollywood history. I’m glad it'll be Clark Gable who’s falling flat on his nose, not me."
Wikapedia

Gary Cooper died at the age of 60 from
prostate cancer in 1961 after making 100 movies.

Steve Mc Queen turned down the roles in E. T.
and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.


Steve died from asbestos cancer at the age
of 50 in 1980. He served 3 years in the Marine Corp. And had spent much time
at a boys orphanage when his prostitute
mother could no longer take care of him
after his father left them at a very young age.

Observer stated:

"Yes, we can't prove life after death exists but then we can't disprove it either. So its easy to indulge in lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego if you can get away with it, but will there be a payback time in the next life?"

--There is this assumption that without the fear of karmic or Godly retribution that humanity will descend into a mass of depraved ill-tempered dishonest narcissistic sensualists.

There are many without belief in an afterlife, karma or God's wrath who conduct their lives admirably and others who don't. Same with the spiritual/religious types.

I think, with or without religious/spiritual beliefs humanity as a whole will display about the same degree of integrity it does now.

Hi tucson,

I'm glad you have commented, you usually have a broad minded approach to these matters.

You say that you think "with or without religious/spiritual beliefs humanity as a whole will display about the same degree of integrity it does now". Okay, I must have a very pessimistic view because I don't see much integrity happening in humanity. In fact, I see human beings devolving more and more, probably from the conditioning and programming from the media as well as the chemicals we now have in the foods we ingest which is definitely affecting the young (from my observations).

BTW I'm not a bloke as some people on this blog seem to think, I am a 68 year old female and as such have seen a huge change in the way the world is today compared to what I grew up with.

As a long term satsangi I do also have the conditioning effect from the belief in karma, and it's not 'God's wrath' I fear, I simply believe in integrity and pure intent and doing the best I can in a very difficult environment. Not that I want to make good karma but in that I definitely don't want to reincarnate back here into a future world of cyborgs lol

I said "the same degree of integrity". I didn't say how much that is. I don't know. It seems most people are OK and mostly try to do be fair and decent at least some of the time, but there sure are some foul SOB's out there that leave a bad taste in the water.

Generally, I think the majority of people realize that cooperation and being nice usually works better for them in the end than being otherwise. It's just a better way to live. Doesn't take God or religion to see that.

Observer said, "I simply believe in integrity and pure intent and doing the best I can in a very difficult environment."

--Would you be any different in that regard if you were not a satsangi? I think character can be taught and learned, but much of it is inherent. Some people are just naturally selfish and mean. Some people are just naturally good natured.

--

"I think, with or without religious/spiritual beliefs humanity as a whole will display about the same degree of integrity it does now."

Great comments, tucson! Very logical, as always. I fully agree that religion does not really make you a "different" person "internally". In fact, I believe that, your above stated "hypothesis" can easily be tested empirically, and I will not at all be surprised if the results turn out to be skewed towards the "non-religious" shown to be better in terms of integrity than the "religious", cutting across most if not "all" different religions of the world.

"Would you be any different in that regard if you were not a satsangi?"

Good question. With regard to intent and integrity, I would probably be much the same but still searching for answers. Now I have a strong belief in reincarnation and the law of karma. This belief explains why there is so much inequality in the world.

I look back and remember what kind of person I was and how happy I was when I was initiated and now still give thanks every day because I know I have been protected and guided in many ways. My higher self you might ask? The 'source' which we know as the Shabd or the Master's help and guidance? I don't know. I do know without this force and my goal in life (although still questioning because thats what the mind does constantly) I would not have been able to get through all the pressures of this life without this support. This is after all a prison planet.

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