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January 06, 2014

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Nice! Very clear indeed. This is quite consistent with my observations.

Right on! Can someone hire a lawyer now and report RSSB as a cult! :) Lets remove this weed from USA atleast.

1st Amendment Rights in the USA offer protections. If you don't like going to church, then just don't go.

If you don't like scoping out HOT BABES at Planet Hollywood, Las Vegas. Well, i'm guessing you're kinda weird.

Enough said........

Someone said that Babaji shared the dais with someone called Sadhguru at some point. There must be a million Sadhgurus in India ... was this Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Brian, please don't take this wrong. But I remember my wife once saying "Brian just can't help but continuously regurgitate words like a slug does slime" and when I read posts like this I see what she means. In a way you are just poking around in theology as others before you have done for thousands of years and become hypnotized by your own eloquence. But alas, there truly is nothing new under the sun.

I imagine once upon a time you liked Rumi's words:

This Love is beyond the study of theology,
that old trickery and hypocrisy.
If you want to improve your mind that way,

sleep on.
I've given up on my brain.
I've torn the cloth to shreds
and thrown it away.

If you're not completely naked,
wrap your beautiful robe of words
around you,

and sleep.

Keep up the good work. The satsangis need you to keep them honest and from thinking they know something when it is only something they read in a book.

When one of your posts is controversial and sheds a less than favorable light on GIHF I talk about it with my satsangi friends. No one says "Geeez, looks like we have been hoodwinked." and decides to do something else. Instead these posts can lead to thoughtful debates and I am thankful for that.

Your master would be proud of you. He really was not very fond of sycophants or of ignoramuses pontificating as if they knew something, as I am sure you have experienced with fundamentalist satsangis. You probably even did it yourself once upon a time. I better stop now or I will turn into a slug.

Howard, if you and your wife don't want to read what is on this blog, why are you doing so?

Actually, I am indeed offended by your comments. Not only because you insult me, but because you are insulting everyone who doesn't believe as you do.

This is the craziness of religious true believers. I know, because I used to be one.

You and your wife call me, and other religious skeptics, "slugs in slime" because we look upon life and reality in a different way than you do.

Wow. You don't even know me. You have no idea what it like to be me. You are clueless about how I live my life and look upon this marvelous world.

I don't feel at all like a slug in slime. Not that I know how a slug feels. But I recognize an insult when I read one. You might consider how much love and compassion your religious beliefs have brought you, given how you look upon those who don't share your beliefs.

“Brian, please don't take this wrong. But I remember my wife once saying "Brian just can't help but continuously regurgitate words like a slug does slime" and when I read posts like this I see what she means.” – Howard
Howard,
Take an objective look at your comment. The key words are “continuously regurgitate words.” Now let me ask you: would not this apply far more to ‘Satsang?’
Disciples go to satsang every Sunday. They hear the same words again and again. In fact it gets pretty boring. So boring in fact that some satsangis fall asleep in their chairs. I know because I used to fall asleep fairly often. It would have been interesting if I had fallen asleep while I was giving a talk. I wonder if anyone would have awoken me or let me enjoy my sleep.
In satsang, you hear the same stories again and again. GSD gives you the same message at every satsang. Most of Charan singh’s satsangs were almost identical to his previous satsangs because he would use the exact same quotes time and time again.
Do you accuse your guru, or your speakers of “regurgitating words like a slug does slime?” Maybe you should.
Because that is all they are doing each Sunday. In fact I was told by the management of RSSB that “we want parrots,” and I refused to be a parrot.
There is a lot more original thought and coherent arguments here than you will find in any satsang. I suggest the next time you go to satsang – you tell them they are regurgitating words like a slug does slime.

But Osho and Brian Howard also says thank you for this forum.. Maybe his wife is "the fly in the ointment".... And about "The Parrots"...I was walking up the hill after satsang at Dera, in a state of bliss, I had just had Dashan, and a flock of parrots flew around me, they seemed to enter into my very soul. I begged.. "Dear Lord please don't let me go insane here in India. Such is how great the intoxication is of this path.

Sour grapes from Howard. Obviously part of him realizes there are big holes in his belief system. Otherwise he would not have felt the need to post such a response. Some of Brian's lead comment (mostly written by Osho) seems to have cut to the quick. Best to be honest with yourself and face the truth.

June, the bliss and intoxication you felt after satsang and darshan at dera were your own. It arose from within you and not from without from the master, imo. Go to a quiet place and focus on a special tree or view you enjoy. In time, "you" will vanish and only the tree will remain. It is bliss and intoxication. I prefer to call it peace.

Go to a quiet place and focus on a special tree or view you enjoy. In time, "you" will vanish and only the tree will remain. It is bliss and intoxication. I prefer to call it peace.

The "bliss and intoxication" of losing oneself is self-induced delusion, but it may be necessary. Whether it's better to induce it through some mental technique than by means of drugs or a physical process is just a matter of preference. You may need to lose yourself on occasion, but if you have to make a big deal of it, make a religion of it, you need to lose your sense of self-importance.

That's not the point I was trying to make... When I'd phone home and share with my children about things my son Would enquire.. Ma are you on acid? To be on a High is pretty mean.. I'm stone cold sober now.

Just to add to the above previous to my walk up the hill at the tent I'd been sitting on the floor crying and a german lady help me up and started crying and hugged me. Then an Indian lady came , and we were all hugging and crying and laughing at the same time. None of us could speak each others language but we were one. Call it female hysterer or whatever I felt connected. And Thanks Tucson but I don't want to disappear into a tree I want to find myself in humanity.

I have this image of Baba Ji doing a national Satsang and then being asked a question by Osho/Mike Williams/tAo/tuscon or Skeptic...back and forth exchanges..the questioning stumps Baba Ji and he signals for an escape helicopter...the spell is broken...Babi Ji now has a mob chasing him down Haynes Park...throwing sandals at him...he tries to reach for the hoist on the chopper but the pilot, fearing for his own life, ascends back into the air. Baba Ji; tearful, petrified and humiliated looks around at, what was once, his flock. They now resemble vultures and he is the carcass; draped in white; his face blackened with shame, resembling a sacrificial lamb. His final thoughts "This is what it must feel like to truly be a Saint".

A guru they called, "Baba Ji"

Led his followers up a tall tree

When they said, "Make us fly!"

Baba Ji said, "Why?"

"You've made me rich

Now you're free!"

"""The meditation is tough because you are just sitting there - repeating the five holy names [a mantra] and nothing is happening. years go by. """

Of course it's destiny ( and difference first or third life initiation )

I know many who think they do meditate.
They take the most comfortable position possible
A STARTER MUST HAVE HIS SPINE STRAIGHT
also there is no LOVE

Further as a Beautiful Charan initiate half a century now
I have appreciated each second of it

It ever ever GROWS !

I wrote already a lot here
and will see in the comments above if there is something new
to react on

Yes ; there are Guys & Gurls
able to bring a lover to their Own level.
In sports, business & spirituality.

Read my lips !


777


-

People have very selective listening. GSD says there is no Sach khand and they still want to get to Sach khand. GSD says nobody will come at the time of death because duality is an illusion, so how can anyone possibly come? The satsangis continue to ask for grace and ask the master to please come at the time of their death to save their soul.

What does it take to get the message through? I uploaded two videos about it and still people thought I was saying something against RSSB - when I was simply pointing out that the teachings have changed.

A man walks into an ice cream shop.
“I would like a gallon of chocolate ice cream, please”
“Sorry we are all out of chocolate,” replied the shop clerk
“In that case, I will take a quart of chocolate ice cream, please”
“Listen, we don’t have any chocolate” replies the clerk again

“Well in that case I will have a double chocolate scoop please”
“Mister, we are all out of chocolate, ALL OUT!”

“Well I guess I’ll just take a small cup of chocolate ice cream in that case”

“Wait a second,” replies the clerk, “can you spell the water in watermelon?”
”Sure” replies the man, "W A T E R"
“Can you spell the gold in goldfish?”
“Easy: G O L D"
“Well, can you spell the fuck in chocolate?”

“Wait a second,” says the man, “There is no fuck in chocolate!”
“That is what I have been trying to tell you
There is no fucking chocolate”

In the same way there is no fucking Sach Khand and no fucking master will come at the time of your fucking death. And whether you fucking like it or not, the fucking teachings have fucking changed.

No fucking offence intended just in case you are fucking sensitive to the fucking word 'fuck'. Have a great fucking day.

Well fucking put Osho. It's an inner conundrum for Satsangi's these days. Some may have come to the path thinking it was the everlasting, unchangeable truth since the dawn of time and believing they had found the ultimate path would have quenched their thirst for spiritual enlightenment and success in the after life. Then Gurinder goes ahead and tweaks the foundations here and there....re-writing the ground rules...the two main attractions of dying as a satsangi...namely; access to Sach Khand and permanent Darshan of the Master.
I wish the Satsang in which GSD re-wrote Sant Mat was recorded....How have the Satsangi's interpreted GSD's words other than what seems apparent?

And for everybody in any aspect of your life how to stop being a pussy, stop being a pussy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyNGNl_POs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I love that GSD is changing Sant Mat to be more updated and no longer the old fashioned, dated, fairy story type teachings it used to be. Why the anger because of change? If the older, more set in their ways, type of satsangi don't like it then let them complain.

It just doesn't make sense that the commenters here who have moved away from Sant Mat are making this fuss about GSD changing things. What the!

Guess it keeps this blog going and make things interesting.

I like that he says there is no Sach Khand. Its easier to understand that we are not travelling or are on some kind of a soul journey to a higher plane of existence. Its a much better understanding imo that with practice we are able to raise our level of consciousness.

Is duality an illusion? Maybe this is the case once we have realised the oneness of everything, which is probably enlightenment. Who knows? I would love to have a conversation with GSD and not have to listen to hearsay!

As to "selective listening", yes we all do this all the time, according to our perceptions. Everyone has an agenda, some bloggers here are wannabe gurus... kinda obvious. As for myself, just saying there are a multitude of choices and different ways of looking at things.

I hope GSD continues to shock people out of their conditioning and brain washing.

My simran has granted me access to Sach Khand, and I am here to tell you that, yes, the teachings have changed. So much, in fact, that the teachings now deny their own authority and advise the aspirant to drop the whole business, quit being a sucker for gurus, spirituality, wishful nonsense, and face facts. You're going to die, so quit wasting your life by staking it on a pile of crap.

Observer: You would like "GSD to shock people out of their conditioning and brain washing"...
i.e. embrace the new/updated Sant Mat and reject the old...you do realise that the version you want satsangi's to be shocked "out of" is the version advocated by Sawan Singh, Charan Singh, Baba Jaimal Singh....are you suggesting their versions are "old fashioned, dated story type teachings"? Are not all Masters from the same Shabd and therefore one in the same?
Should RSSB books that claim to hold esoteric truths such as Philosophy of Masters (written by Sawan) and Sar Bachan (written by Soami Ji) be discarded because GSD has decided to give it an upgrade?
If the Masters are all one and all knowing; why was an upgrade needed in the first place? Why was Sant Mat 3.0 not taught from the onset?
The previous Masters of RSSB implicitly and at time explicitly spoke of a journey that the soul makes and the need to see the Radiant Form of the master to undertake the journey safely. Science of Soul by Master Sardar Jagat Singh is very forthright about the various stages to Sach Khand and what one may encounter along the way to hinder the jiv.
I'm assuming you have had Naam? When you did; were you not told of a journey of going within, listening for the sound, crossing the Moon to meet the Radiant Form? The Radiant Form is definitely discussed in the Guide for Initiates booklet given at the time of receiving Naam. What was the point of upgrading The Truth/ re-vamping The Path when Kabir/Tulsi/Paltu/Guru Nanak/Soami Ji/ Sawan/ Charan all kept it the same and stated that it is the only truth that cannot be altered?
What implications does this have in terms of how future initiation sittings are undertaken?
I would sincerely like to know your thoughts on this matter.

9thGate,

"... the version advocated by Sawan Singh, Charan Singh, Baba Jaimal Singh....are you suggesting their versions are "old fashioned, dated story type teachings"

Yes. The stories were for the mindset that people had in those times. I know this because this is the mindset that I had, which I now look back on and see as romantic, magical thinking, and although those teachings totally suited my way of thinking back then, they are no longer relevant.

Doesn't GSD says forget the books? Look at how Brian has changed since he wrote those books about Sant Mat.

You ask: "Are not all Masters from the same Shabd and therefore one in the same?"

WE are from the same Shabd (audible life stream, or whatever name you want to give it) and we are ALL one and the same. I was initiated in the sixties and times have changed. This is a totally different world to the one I grew up in. People are very skeptical now in this age of information.

You ask: "What implications does this have in terms of how future initiation sittings are undertaken?"

I have no idea because initiation sittings have nothing to do with me.

Be wary of having a very fixed mindset.

Just go with the flow bro. lol

9thGate, follow on to my previous comment...

Just listening to Dr Richard Alan Miller, a Charan Singh initiate, talking to John B Wells, on youtube. A very interesting character, a physicist with an investigative mind. Check it out if you can, you will find him fascinating.

Cheers

Thanks for the reply observer. As an initiate; do you still meditate using the Sant Mat method? How has GSD's words changed your approach to meditation; if at all? I am guessing you don't expect to see the Radiant Form during your Bhajan sessions?
Last question...when GSD re-worked the teachings; what were your initial feelings?
Regards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytyqhyZoSOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0CI6QVbSM

You are all right and you are all wrong.

Scientifically proven.

Just go with the flow bro. lol

Yeah, bro. Flush your life down the toilet of religious nonsense.

Observer wrote:

" I love that GSD is changing Sant Mat to be more updated and no longer the old fashioned, dated, fairy story type teachings it used to be. Why the anger because of change? If the older, more set in their ways, type of satsangi don't like it then let them complain."

--I guess I could be called one of the older satsangis. However, I am not set in my satsangi ways as I ceased all involvement with the religion back in the mid 1990's. I can't believe I bought into it and stuck with it for about a quarter century.

However, the older version of Sant Mat, called 1.0 by Osho Robbins, was presented as absolute truth at the time of intitiation with all the regions, sounds, sights, Kal the negative power, radiant forms, all the supernatural powers attributed to the sat guru... and a lot more I don't feel like listing such as the possibility of four lifetimes after intitiation to reach the goal of the now debunked, by Gurinder, fabled region of incomprehensible light and glory Sach Khand and the further mystery regions of Alakh, Agam and Anami. Basically, all bullshit according to him. How would that make a true believer in old school Sant Mat feel IF that was what drew them to the "path".

If version 1.0 was the absolute truth, the same path taught by all perfect GIHF masters throughout the ages, what does this make the new 2.0 version of Sant Mat taught by Gurinder Singh? At best, one or both of the versions are lies or deceptions.

So, If I were a satsangi now I'd be concerned about the validity of this path that keeps changing, ostensibly to suit the modern mindset. Sounds like Nike coming out with new shoe designs all the time to keep market share.

They say, "Oh that Gurinder, he is so hip and cool. Dumped all that fairy tale stuff like a hot potato."

Well, one day Gurinder's teaching will sound like a fairy tale to the followers of Sant Mant version 3.0.


These recent comments are marvellous. Really getting down to the nitty kritty... Maybe we are still just Satsangis, most of us still meditate, stick to the diet etc. What has changed.?... For me I'm never going to think of him as G~d incarnate..I'm never going to say Rhada Swami again... I don't and havn't for sometime thought in eastern phrase terms. Sat Purush, Kal etc.They are foreign words to me..I feel like a fake, a traitor to my own background when I use them. They make no sense...I like that Gurinder is hip, one of my fears was always that I would cease to be hip..I'm from the sixties, intitated 61... I prefer his approach to Charans....One of the things that blew me away was that he could quote poetry the way he did..He seemed to know those that I knew and would interject them in his satsangs... So why have I left...I became claustrafobic.. I could no longer breath and there are many other reasons....But the overwhelming one is that I feel I am betraying something very deep inside of me...Maybe I was tortured in the Inquistion and its a memory..But I don't except reincarnation anymore as a explanation so that won't do...I'll just have to go deeper, stay on this forum, and hope for direction..............Just to add if I acess my progress I'v made more since I came here 3 months ago than I did in 51 years....I have more clarity, peace, joy than ever befor.. I also feel more connected and that at last I'm on my way.

Also 9th Gate and observer this crap all masters are one. Its eastern nonsence... I am me and you are you...We are all connected through our common humanity..To say Gurinder and Jesus are one and the same.....I say here....:WHERE IS THE PROOF:...Its a Con....Do not take away my identity......:Let not the man who is beast or who thinks he god come near me. Do not make me A cog in a machine....Otherwise Kill Me. With deep gratitude to Louis Macniece on his poem "Prayer befor Birth"

If by my comments I appear anti east. That is not the case. I have transcended barriers of gender, cast and race. I was taught by the gurus that this world is an illusion. That was misleading. It nearly destroyed my soul and very nearly ruined my life....I live in Africa. I am a child of its soil.I feel its heart beat...When the sun rises in the east and I listen to the birds sing I wake up....When it Sets in the West and you go to sleep, it has travelled its course....Tucson has long been pondering the nature of time, so has Mike Williams. When I can feel in total what they feel I shall know more. I say feel as I am woMAN .That is my nature.

It is quite strange that in a country like America, where people are supposed to be quite scientific in outlook, a fraud like RSSB Guru finds followers.

June I am happy for you. It's liberating to think out of the box due to one's own volition without feeling that one is betraying a certain path or Master. Sometimes you find there are lots of boxes to find thought in and lots of boxes to think outside of. Clarity, peace and joy can seem like fleeting moments and even intangible at best so when you get some, enjoy it and relish it :-)Peace and be Wild.

I'm enjoying this post and discussion.

It was said that Gurinder Singh is changing RSSB. How so? Has he changed its practice or beliefs? Are these changes publicly described anywhere?

Isn't it possible to meditate on the sound without having to believe anything, visualize the Master or pine for Sach Khand?

It is difficult to obtain simple instructions without joining a group, getting initiation, adopting beliefs and being taught about Perfect Master etc. Certainly payment of money is required with some of these groups.

And one is told that the Master connects the practitioner to the sound current, when in fact anybody can hear it.

Much has been written about Shabd but I have found only a handful of little-known books that actually tell you how to do it. Some of these contain unrelated baggage before you get to the procedure.

I am interested in doing a (short) book that says, here's a practice that can benefit and delight you on your path, it is natural and you don't have to delude yourself or give devotional energy to bearded men on the other side of the planet.

And for crying out loud, you don't have to put your fingers in your ears. Earplugs, what a concept...

Hi D,
The initiation is on this front page and the
links to sant mat 2.0 are also on the front
page.

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

Radhasoami Beas Initiation, Kirpal Groups Initiation, Yogananda first initiation, Summa Ching Hai initiation.

Presiding dieties, chakras, sounds.. You don't need a guru. All they do is take your money. Here is the 5 name initiation mantra. Stick your thumbs in your ears, with fingers over eyes and elbows on knees. Peer into darkness. Listen to sound from right ear with right hand thumb pressed over earlobe. No one gets anywhere with this even with a guru, even if you meditate 30 years.

Jot Naranjan, Om Kar, Rarankar, Sohang, Sat Nam

1.Sahas Dal Kanwel, Jot Naranjan Flame of candle, bell, conch shell, 3/4 inches behind Tirsa Til 2. Trikuti, Om Kar, Rising sun,, Thunder, drum, between two eyebrows. 3.Sunn (Dswan Dar), Ranrankar, Satan, Kal, Lucifer, full moon, fiddle, center of forehead. Maha Sunn vast region, Ankar is also the mantra of Aleister Crowley Satanic groups.. 4. Bhawar Gupta Sohang Ji, mid day sun, flute, 5. Sat Lok, Sat Nam, where hair starts on forehead,, harp, bin, 100 million suns 5a.Below are extra inner planes of Agra groups who go to Radhasoami Pad using Radhasoami mantra. 6. Alakh Lok, Alakh Parush, 2 fingers after hair starts, undescribable 7. Agam Lok, Agam Parush, 2 fingers after Alakh line, undescribable 8. Radhasoami Dayal, top of head, undescribable It should be noted no inner planes actually exist as real places. They are just places in your brain. Some caution needs to be exercised using the 5 names, as they envoke Satan.

C. R S Beas Secret History

9thGate,

In answer to your questions. To put it simply, I follow my path in my own way. I've learned from my experiences with Sant Mat and keep what resonates with me and let go of whatever doesn't.

I do have an enquiring mind and like to investigate the mysteries of life, that which lies underneath the surface. Probably why I read this blog.

Not much more to say... enjoy your journey... Cheers

I m not a advaita enthousiastic and I like duality
because they misuse often/always the idea of oneness
abusively, stating
I'm God and - we love everyone , while it is not true

Each electron is God, each nutrino
but they are not in the ultimate Love state

GDS is right that these regions don't exist !

They will exist when we enter a certain time_space_environment ( 1 of 7; SK=5 ) and eventually
approach regions made by other Jeevas
in the same way as is actually done on this planet

It's all
corresponding with our desires

Actually we are in the rare unique position to have met c q being enabled by this 5 words ascending force given by a Jeeva coming from or authorized by / from a High Place.


777

fini les idées fairy tale like and infentile
but there is this big chance

Howard, your comment was a bit insulting yes, no doubt about it. But in a sense you make a good point (forget about the slugs and the slime). I have heard now from many satsangi friends how this blog and similar anti-RSSB blogs are actually making people very interested in the path. I know at least one person who was not sure about applying for initiation, and after reading some posts in this blog decided to go for it.

So in RSSB jargon, Brian is doing some great seva. :)

It reminds me of that joke about the two cab drivers. One was a very correct driver, never ran any red lights, was polite to his clients, followed all traffic rules. The other was the opposite. He was reckless, broke all rules, was always overspeeding, etc. One day they crashed against each other in an accident and both died. They both went up to heaven and the good cab driver was turned back, while the reckless cab driver was taken in. Shocked at this, the good cab driver asked St. Peter how come the other guy who was a reckless man was allowed in, and St Peter's response was simple. "You see, every time someone came into this guy's cab, his driving was to bad and reckless that they all started praying. So he accumulated the merit for leading so many thousands of people to pray for so many years, and that's why we're keeping him here."

Hi All,

I like this blog ..always good to read critical view on Sant math and see the other side of the coin and weigh the considerations..


I stumbled upon Sant Math last year (2013) after reading Julian P Johnson's "Path of the Masters" and was reading up on history and lineage and books of Past Masters(Kabir, Shiv Dayal, Sawan singh and Kirpal Singh)

I am very much impressed by talks on You tube(Ishwar Puri) http://www.youtube.com/user/IshwarPuriSantMat


some questions to those who were on Radhasoami for long time .
But how can I be sure of the authenticity of current masters...
1)Who is the real Living master at present with real power to take initiate (hand hold) to definite salvation and not just promises...

2)will the Masters(Baljith Singh/ Gurinder or others in the Sant mat lineage) be with initiates here and hereafter at death etc..

3)A request to those on sant math path for a number of years ..can you comment on the lineage branch of Radhasoami interms of who is authentic master at present? (please click on each branch to expand)
http://santmat.livingcosmos.org/surat-shabd-yoga/ssy-flash.html

@Seeker

There can be more than one True Living Master at the same time. For example, from Indian history, Sant. Ravidas Ji and Sant. Kabir saheb Ji were contemporary.

I don't know and can not comment, but for me, without a slightest trace of doubt, my loving Babaji at Dear Beas (RSSB) are indeed the True Living Master.

Also, it's the biggest instance of the life of a seeker when he surrenders himself to a Master and decides to try to walk the path. I think these decisions can't be make on online forums, forums can be inspiring both in positive or negative directions depending on from which angle you are taking the things... but the final decision should be made by visiting and listening to their actual teachings.

I'd like to recommend you to visit every sect, listen to their discourses and once you're fully satisfied with a particular path, that it is The Path, that would be the right time to make the decision.

All the best in your journey!
God bless you.


To all the initiated ones:

"Ulta Kuan gagan mein, tismein jare chiraag"
"Tis mein jarey chiraag, bin rogan bin bati"
- Sant. Paltu Saheb.

meaning: a man's head is an inverted well, and there is flame of a lamp inside the well. the flame remains on without fuel and without any thread.

regards,
One Initiated

@Seeker

If you want to listen to Babaji at Dera Beas:

For your information, this month there is only one Satsang at Beas on 30th March, 2014 by Babaji - Sunday Morning 10 AM.

@Seeker, Don't get caught up in looking for numbers or signs of truth and lies in this and that lineage. There are dozens and obviously any disciple will tell you theirs is the one true perfect living master, etc. And let's not get started on how much negativity you will find whether or not you look for it.

The online debate runs endlessly, but meditation is all Sant Mat really boils down to in practice. Check out this well written explanation and all you really need to know about Sant Mat. http://www.thakar-singh.info/reference-sant-thakar-singh.php

Ultimately only you can decide, and there is only one way to be sure. If you think you've found a legitimate master, seek initiation and:
1. Commit to the lifestyle requirements, which for most people only really requires a change of diet.
2. Commit 100% to following the meditation instructions without deviating. Give this a reasonable period of time (3-6 months, say). This should be long enough for you to be able to make a valid, reasonable assessment of the results.
3. If you're satisfied, carry on. If not, don't be afraid to move on. Sant Mat is not based on public testimony or wishful thinking.

Ishwar Puri's talks on YouTube are good. And there is some good free literature out there from Sawan Singh and Kirpal Singh.

@seeker


Question2
We confirm : I wrote that already here in this group
google : hinessight+radha+"his arms"

I like Ishwar too
but he is not always correct -
He said f i that thoughts generate karma
which is definitely not true

But he has lots of good ideas

Further : Seekers should only ask for initiation
if they can't help it, - It's a gift

p :
I'm a long time
( lucky bastard initiated : 1965 )
extremely happy with it 24/7

777

-

Thanks for every one who responded to my queries...

@777 and other initiates:
1)Did you experience light ant sound as an experience at the time of
i) initiation?
ii) during subsequent meditations, and simran(5 word chanting with tongue of mind)

2) Did you see the Master waiting in the Astral plane beyond the '10th door' during meditations?


3)I am getting slightly tired of digging wells all over the place..just want to dig a well where I can find water.., but i need to know where to find the water for sure at first.

Some wells that were/are on the my path:

i) Eckhar Tolle introduced me to the Power of Now : http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_now_tolle/eckhart_tolle_pon_quotes.htm

ii)William Walker Atkinson(Yogi Ramacharaka) introduced me to 'The Life Beyond death' : https://archive.org/stream/lifebeyonddeath00rama#page/n5/mode/2up

iii)Blavatsky's Theosophical Society Group: Gave some fascinating views to origins of creation :- https://archive.org/stream/manwhencehowandw031919mbp#page/n7/mode/2up

iv) Sant Mat - Ishwar Puri youtube channel , Radhasoami website , ruhanisatsangusa.org etc gave some great insignt into Sant Math


I felt Sant Mat is the final well...but now the struggle for identifying the real master who will hand hold and make the journey possible is the next challenge..

Sorry for the rant...but not sure where else can I rant about this...

Regards
-Seeker (not initiated, Not yet found a 'Perfect Living Master(PLM)')

as a start i'm not a RSSB initiate, i eat meat and enjoy the odd drink. at the same time i am very spiritually aware through my own personal journey. i do believe in a sant mat path but it's not the easiest and not for the faint hearted, besides you do not need a living guru to tell you how or be an initiate. I sat amongst some loyal RSSB followers and the talk of bhajans and the guru started so i had a few words about spiritualism in all it's glory and put them in their place simply because i was bored listening. they were left speechless and lost for words and further after knowing i enjoy what i eat and drink. my point is while you're sitting there waiting for your so called guru and businessman Mr Dhillon to guide you, if you take a step to guide yourself you will actually get somewhere. yes you will make mistakes (who doesn't? its called being human) but you will learn and gather wisdom as you strive to gain that perfect social and spiritual balance.

I have seen families close to falling apart because of this RSSB rubbish and all i have learnt is that people seem to think when you die you have that safety assurance that your satguru is there to take you to heaven and yet they are countlessly blind to their own issues, personal qualities they face and lack in real life. I can see the bigger picture and it isn't working.

I read an article about Fortis healthcare, Religare and their insider share dealing with Mr Dhillon sons and it don't surprise me. Mr Dhillon is always flying around to US, Spain, UK, India and it does make me wonder where the money is coming from. now I know.

6. Become all knowing and all powerful as you become a 'saint' and arrive at Sach Khand [heaven, basically].

This should read the opposite !!!
No desire to know and a Slave ,
The Lowest of the Lowly ( Nanak ) )

7. Become immortal and reside in Sach Khand forever.

THAT WOULD BE BOOOOOORING
if there was an end c.q. something established


777

Did you know 5 glasses of water a day gives you 50%
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2 cups coffee lowers risk of liver cancer 60%.
4 cups cuts diabetes in half.

5 servings of nuts a week 50% less heart
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Increases is Vitiman d and e proven not to increase life
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Lycopene and mevalonate stop 45% of all cancers from
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Curcumin with Bioperine is a miracle cancer cure.
Drug companies petetioned FDA to get tumeric
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Gingerol and lycopene also cure.

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Did you know G Edward Griffith made a movie
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It is banned in USA.

Did you know Sussane Sumers cured her breast cancer
with Iscador, mistletoe extract from Europe.

Did yo know there is a doctor curing most cancers
by putting baking soda injections on tumors ?

Did you know Tylenol is one of the biggest killers in the world ?

Did yo know there is a doctor curing most cancers by putting baking soda injections on tumors ?

Yes i use soda for cleaning laundrey begetablrs fruits and i am washing teeth and i also use it for enemas,
look for clean soda without aluminium,, solvay,,,
But best for body cleans are vegetable juices and doing enemas and than taking some stuff against parasites, guy try the last and youll see miracles but take probiotics affter enemas

Thanks for the entertainment! Especially the chocky ice-cream one Osho Robbins! One will hear when one is ready. The time is right to hear objectively and shred the illusions. Kindergarten is over - time to graduate. However, meditation is difficult and one can only have insights to wisdom according to one's intellectual ability and personal "insights" of experience, which are often beyond language. You are the Master. His Holiness the Dali Lama went to the Dera and attended one of Gurinder's satsangs.I wish that I had been there. To me Buddhism and Sant Mat are one and the same. In fact, there is no religion only the truth and really,I mean, how is it possible for us to realise this permanent unchanging true truth as mere mortals, unless we are astrophysicists or quantum theorists? All of whom are forever learning and changing their knowledge.The Buddhist explanation on emptiness and objective and subjective phenomena is profound to say the least.You only get what you are ready to get, when you are ready to receive it. Do you not think that Gurinder is taking Radha Soami Satsang Beas to another level in that it is time to up the pace and move it to another sphere of understanding? Everything evolves. As for the the Fortis Health Care and the Regligare Companies, well you need financial wealth to make changes in this world. And "pray" tell me who actually runs our planet - the Bilderberg group and the Rothchilds etc. Are they broke??? I don't think so. I think there is also a Nordic vegetarian food company that the Dhillons and Charan Singh's sons are invloved in too. I would rather that the planet's food and health care be dominated by a benign force than that of a malign one. It takes money to make benign changes and decades also. You'll see. Do you not think that the Fortis Health Care is not an extension and evolvement of the original hospital at Beas? Anyway it is love and affection that always wins and "Nada" (the Shabd) is the pure force or energy that can change all. I see just today, online that scientists have proved the theory discovered 80 years ago that light can be turned into matter. Religion is really just an explanation of science. Light and sound - solidifying matter - fine tuning matter back to light = Surat Shabd Yog.
http://www.universetoday.com/112044/physicists-pave-the-way-to-turn-light-into-matter/ E=MC2. Mass and energy/light and sound. Radha Soami and Om Mani Padme Hum oh and Amen too! Gyani
See www.gyanithepeacockfairy.com and You Tube Fairy Gyani for a children's fairy story based on my little Sant Mat experience.

25 May 2014

Sorry the above typo should have read His Holiness the Dalai Lama. What will happen to all religion and philosophies and wisdom beliefs when, (and it will happen no doubt) when and if we have to reincarnate back to the following prospects?
http://www.thrivemovement.com/dialogue-transhumanism-chu-and-hubbard-respond.blog
I have taken this, what I quote below out of context, but who can understand Revelations in the New Testament anyway? (And we all know religion was created by man for other men to have power over the masses – although a consistent truth and wisdom does run through the essence of all).
Revelations:Chpt9: V6: And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and death shall flee from them.
Sounds like something out of the Alien movies what precedes and follows this verse. Or, could it be relating to the future of transhumanism? How frightening! Will the Arnie Terminator movies become a reality?
However,moving on, to quote Shantideva from “The Way of the Bodhisattva” (a Satsangi's way of life too)
Widsom Chapter
#55 Whatever is the source of suffering, Let that be the object of our fear. But voidness will ally our every grief, How could it be for us a thing of dread?
#56 If such a thing as “I” exists indeed, Then terrors, granted, will torment it. But since no self of “I” exists at all, What is there left for fears to terrify?
#57-59 Go on to say that the aggregates of the physical body are not the “I”. “And “I” is not accounted for in sixfold consciousness.”
#60 If the hearing consciousness is permanent, It follows that it’s hearing all the time. And if there is no object, what does it cognize? On what grounds do you call it consciousness?
#61 If something that’s unconscious knows, It follows that a stick has knowledge also, Therefore in the absence of a thing to know, It’s clear that consciousness will not arise.
#62 If the selfsame consciousness detects a form, At that time, why does it not hear? Perhaps you say the sound’s no longer there. Then neither is there consciousness of sound.
The other verses are too many to write here on the “self” and the “I”.
#77 The source of sorrow is the pride of saying “I’, It’s fostered and increased by false belief in self. To this you may believe that there is no redress, But meditation on no-self will be the supreme way.
Hence the need for a Master or Gurus to shift focus from the “self” in order to realise the true nature of all phenomena. Without an object the subject cannot exist and without a subject the object cannot exist.
When you make the connection of Master/disciple then you see the there is only one.
#66 (Shantideva) “But its different modes,” you say, “are quite unreal”. Its essence therefore you must now describe. You say that this is simply knowing. It follows that all beings are a single thing.
(I have taken #66 out of context to make a point – there is only one). If an aggregate from the one thinks it has independent arising then it is sadly mistaken. That’s all. Simple isn’t it?
Radha Soami
Gyani The Peacock Fairy

"Hence the need for a Master or Gurus to shift focus from the “self” in order to realise the true nature of all phenomena. Without an object the subject cannot exist and without a subject the object cannot exist."

---If there is a need to shift focus from the self it seems there are many objects other than a master via which to accomplish this. A caterpillar will do.

The question is whether there is any need to shift focus in the first place. If we are "one" we are that anyway and at death we will return to the undifferentiated state without any effort on our part.

If the "one" wishes to "wake up" while in its dream, fine, but there is nothing "it" can do to cause this to happen nor any "one" to make it happen because there isn't any "one" in the first place. It just happens, or not. It really doesn't matter. Nothing really matters other than the doing of it, the living of it, dreaming or awake.

Enjoy the show of yourself to yourself by yourself. It's all the same regardless of the angle via which it is perceived.

It's all OK.

Yes! I agree - And a pipe smoking caterpillar too, sitting on a mushroom that will take you to:"What the Bleep Down The Rabbit Hole!"

Still though, I have a hard time believing people like Ishwar Puri are lying to us?! That's clearly an absurd proposition. He's a good man and he's not lying to us and Sach Khand is real and you're already there you just need to tune your consciousness into the higher realities.

I have a hard time believing people like Ishwar Puri are lying to us?!

Really? Have you ever considered the possibility that he's lying to himself? You say he's "a good man" and "he's not lying to us", and that's you lying to yourself.

Ishwar Puri has major scandals. Read the
internet.

The realization of no self is called
enlightenment. But, even these people can be
deluded with wrong facts and unwittingly
be hurting humanity.

To have this knowledge of no self is
alot different from experiencing it
as a shattering event. Two different
animals.

Compassion breaks the chain of fixed
concepts.

Enlightenment has little value without
compassion.

Ishwar used to be a major chick magnet at one time. Very charismatic fellow, but this does not necessarily indicate that he was fundamentally any different from the rest of us like some cosmic fountainhead of enlightenment. I mean, Jim Jones was charismatic too. Ishwar most likely is just another slob on the bus trying to find his way home. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

Ishwar most likely is just another slob on the bus trying to find his way home.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7rIarpQBk

The most amazing thing about religious history is that Muslims and Christians
were forced into these religions,
from previous religions.

When the force is gone, they still continue
to practice these religions.

Although the gramdparents may have been
killed by these religions in mass.

270 million people were killed by the
Muslims in 1000 years because they redfused
to convert. An amazing figure.

It was called the Dark Ages.

Mike,
Very true, most if not all muslims in india and pakistan and bangladesh had are descendants from people who were forcibly converted
Harry

Hi Harry,
Yes, the Muslims killed 40 million
Hindus in the dark ages.

People like Jaimal Singh must have
had a connection to Muslims in
his distant families past.

Jaimal is spelled various ways
by Muslims.

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