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August 31, 2013

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Good to see RS lightening up a bit and becoming a bit more like Art of Living which they all looked down on, well all except for the ones who secretly also attended AOL course and weekly kriya groups. AOL Sri Sri Ravi Shankar would have no problem behaving in this way and he always encouraged fun. This is a main difference between the two paths in their styles, RS is "do as we say, follow the rules and have discipline". AOL is "let me teach you and give you some tools so you can experience a better life". I have issues with both groups in the way they end up being cultish and followers who move up in the organization tend to lose their way spiritually and get sucked into the superficial aspects. But I have to say I had some mighty magical, euphoric, and extraordinary experiences around the AOL guru and in those courses, no denying that! RS members just looked down their noses at me and continued to ask me when I was going to get initiated.

What a great story. Thanks for sharing it. Gurinder was drunk with humour it seems. I would be impressed if he were to step down as Guru. That would be unprecedented in Sant Mat. He has made enough dollars to do so....he also seems like he doesn't care of any backlash were he to step down.

Osho,

Thanks for the (contents of the) post. Would you please share some of the Hindi songs and the love songs that were being enjoyed there?

I had predicted a dozen years ago Gurinder
would shock people with the truth.

It was an easy prediction. An intelligent
person can not deal with too much bull
crap for long.

Oh Mike ! That is so right. GSD will call it a bluff. I can't wait.

I just freshly shaved my head and now i am going to try it on our brick wall with few butts(just my regular tai chi),see you later,moon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_-QGNUYL5g

Hi Tara and gentle Moongoes,

I talked to this bum recently whom walks
the Los Angeles River with a shopping cart.
He is an old Yogananda initiate and a 62 year old hippie. He sleeps next to the railroad tracks at night.

He says he tries to look at the positive side of everything and God has a reason
why he is a bum....so he can learn. When he walks along he picks up trash to keep the river clean.

So, I said, if you drop dead tonight in
your sleep, what's positive about that ?

He said, "If I do not wake up tomorrow
morning, at least I will not know it."

He said, "If I do not wake up tomorrow
morning, at least I will not know it."

--Did we know we were not alive before we were alive? Does anybody know that?

How long did not being born yet last?

800 trillion x 800 trillion to the trillionth power moments/years/centuries/ages would not even be a wink of an eye in the face of the duration of the eternity before we were born, I would think.

Man! We weren't born yet for a really, really long time!

When did not being born yet begin?

In order to get here there must have been a beginning or we never would have gotten to this point because there would be no point to originate from.

We would be falling forever backwards, never being able to quite get here.

Will the eternity after we die last as long as the eternity before we were born?

Or do they not last at all?

Are we already there, wherever there is?

" God has a reason
why he is a bum....so he can learn"

There are no reasons.

Those who try to be positive are missing the point.

'positive' and 'good' are one sided in a duality based world.

There is no 'good' and no 'positive' - we make it up because have a goal and we have a
'ME' which seeks the best for itself.

This is also what keeps us 'unenlightened'
The ME seeks salvation - wants to know it will be okay after death.

It won't because the ME is an illusion.

No ME - means no seeking - means no worries.
YOU don't need to be saved because there is
no YOU in the first place. The one you seek to save is already doomed.

Death is simply death of the body. Life is not any better than death - they are both part of existence.

When you seek one and avoid the other - that is trying to be positive.

In zen they say: The great way is easy for those who have no preferences. Have the slightest preference and it becomes impossible.

So going back to the original comment - God has no reason because
(1) There is no character that goes by the name of God
(2) God has no reason, no mind, no plan, no objective, no purpose, and therefore no
'religion' or commandments.

God is simply the nothingness - the absence of all 'things' = no-thing

no time, no space.

but in a world of concepts - we think that
no-thing is also a thing and call it God.

"God is simply the nothingness - the absence of all 'things' = no-thing"

---nothingness is no-thing-ness. I prefer to reference a no-thing as non-thing. Don't forget we are blogging with the need for some sematics. A non-conceptualized 'thing' is a non-thing. The non-thing can have a non-conceptualized existence.

Blogging is a world of thinking. Nothing wrong with thinking, we just may be hard wired for such. It may possibly be kinda healthy conceptualizing God at a bare minimum. No harm done.

"The great way is easy for those who have no preferences. Have the slightest preference and it becomes impossible."

---the 'great' and 'easy' and 'slightest' and 'impossible' sound kinda gimmicky. A spiritual teacher must have wrote that.

Nothing is the substance
..........of Everything.

To realize this, you must have
one eye in the front of your head
....and one eye in the back.

hi Roger,

it appears I paraphrased just slightly

The actual quote is
"THE GREAT WAY IS NOT DIFFICULT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NO PREFERENCES.

WHEN LOVE AND HATE ARE BOTH ABSENT EVERYTHING BECOMES CLEAR AND UNDISGUISED.

MAKE THE SMALLEST DISTINCTION, HOWEVER, AND HEAVEN AND EARTH ARE SET INFINITELY APART.

IF YOU WISH TO SEE THE TRUTH THEN HOLD NO OPINION FOR OR AGAINST.

THE STRUGGLE OF WHAT ONE LIKES AND WHAT ONE DISLIKES IS THE DISEASE OF THE MIND."
- Sosan(3rd Zen Patriarch)

No Preferences is the path of going through life like an invisible man - yet at the same time partaking fully of the feast of life.

It is not being a recluse - yet at the same time recognising that all is futile and in vain - because nothing remains and nothing is achieved and therefore there is no purpose or destination to your life - except to devour each moment - simply because it is there to be devoured.

The idea (like for instance in Islam) that God is sitting in judgement on you - and this life is just a test to see how you perform - so he can decide whether to place you in heaven or hell - is a perverted view of life and death. And it makes your life a living hell because you are unable to live any moment authentically. You are too busy trying to seek Allah's approval.

The idea in RSSB and Sant Mat that the whole purpose of your life is to meditate and become so pure that your soul leaves the body and meets the Radiant Form of your master who then takes you to Sach Khand - is another perverted view of life. The follower cannot live his life because he is too busy running away from the temptations that take him away from meditation.
The RSSB follower is caught in a trap - a self created trap that does not allow him to live because of his desire to get to Sach Khand. He breaks free the day he realises it's a huge hoax. There is no Sach Khand - there is no Sat Purush. There are no regions and there is no individual soul that needs to be saved. There is only the delusion of separateness. Because we have separate bodies - we assume we have separate souls. With this assumption comes the desire to save 'my soul' - after all I would not want "My Soul" to suffer birth and re-birth.
Hence the RSSB follower is deeply disturbed and seeks solace through meditation.
It appears to him that meditation is the only purpose of life because it will take him to Sach Khand which is the sole purpose of his life.
I was brought up as a RSSB follower and all throughout my childhood all I wanted was to get to Sach Khand and meet Sat Purush in person. I had visions of sitting down with him in Sach Khand and drinking a cup of tea as we talked about old times.
Later - when I matured - I realised that Sat Purush does not drink tea (he only smokes a hukka - Ha). Because there is no tea (or Hukka).
And we cannot talk about old times - because there is no Time.
I cannot get to Sach Khand because there is no such place (because there is no SPACE).
I cannot meet Sat Purush because he is not a person and I am not a person - so there cannot be a meeting.
Well - that was a bummer - end of my dreams. The one thing I wanted as a child and it could never happen. Talk about a let-down.

But after the let-down came the greatest freedom in knowing I am free. There is nothing to seek and no soul to save. No meditation is required because there is no destination for the 'I' to get to.

So from that moment of realisation - I could simply live - without seeking anything - knowing there is nothing to seek and no real goal to pursue. I could create my own little goals as long a I realised I am creating them and they mean nothing apart from the meaning I give them.

RSSB followers thought I had left 'The Path' when in reality I had gotten to the end of the real path.

This is what zan master Sosan is saying: No preferences. No opinion 'for' or 'against'.

quote Osho :
RSSB followers thought I had left 'The Path' when in reality I had gotten to the end of the real path.

Tom
No Osho people thought you were enlighted but you just left the path.

Osho Robbins:-Wow...that was a revelation for me. Thank you for putting your thoughts across so eloquently. I really enjoyed reading your comments. Hope you are having a splendid Sunday.
Mike Williams:- You are poet...your words...potential lyrics for a song I want to write...you would be credited of course. I know it's a different subject but What are your thoughts on Syria by the way?

Osho Robbins,et al,

I am wondering whether you gave your "revelations" about the new teachings via permission from Gurinder Singh? Or was it off your own bat so to speak? I would love to know. And yes, your vids were interesting, and probably "disturbing" to some Satsangis!!


Sorry to bother you gain, Osho..!

I)I assume when anyone gets initiated into RSSB they are still told the basic esoteric "secrets" of Shabd Yoga? I assume the new Sant Mat is not introduced as such?

II)... What about the "tiny" number of advanced Satsangis who may actually have experiences of leaving the body, hearing Sound, and seeing the Radiant Form of the "Master" and the like?


III)...Are their experiences treated as merely as "hallucinations" of one sort, or another, or what?


III)... Does the Beas "department" dealing with inner experiences still advise spiritually "advanced" experiencers to follow traditional Shabd Yoga, or not?

...This whole situation, and the new "evolution" of Sant Mat is very interesting. Your answers would be gratefully acknowledged

Hi Robert.
I did not get permission from GSD or anyone else,
any more than you got permission from anyone before
asking me any questions. permission is not needed

church of the churchless have written of the changes for some time
it is called sant mat 2.0 and 3.0

I made the videos just to compile the changes in one place and
to make it clear that the changes are real

some ardent followers took offence but if you notice I did not
say the new teachings were 'bad'

I simply repeated what the new guru says in his talks

I have some of my talks recorded from the days when I used to give
talks in english for RSSB.

In particular the one that got me banned. I am going to put them online
soon as a youtube video.

I always recorded my own talks - after all - it's (c) me
my copyright - so dont need anyone's permission.

Hi Robert.
1. your assumption is correct. initiation still as before
2 & 3. From the viewpoint of most satsangis nothing has changed and any
experiences will be taken as a sign of advancement. Ardent followers
are not going to drop the original teachings just because the new master
says something. they will simply ignore what he says.
They will delete and distort his comments to make sure their beliefs
stay intact - just as we all delete and distort information to fit in with our own
opinions and beliefs (so we always get to be right)

The new teachings would state they are halluncinations. However you have to
remember - the new teachings have not been officially announced or released
they are merely statements of the new master.
Many take his comments with a pinch of salt - or even a handful of salt.

4. I don't think there is an 'inner experiences' department
mainly because who would head it without being a hypocrite?

I would hazard a guess that they still answer letters just like before
and validate inner experiences.
However, my own experience is they no longer answer any letters at all.

Osho!

Thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.

There is just one other thing. I believe it is said somewhere onsite that the guru in the new Sant Mat teachings should not be regarded as a saviour but rather as a guide? How does reincarnation come into all this...if at all?

Osho says "I have some of my talks recorded from the days when I used to give
talks in english for RSSB.

In particular the one that got me banned. I am going to put them online
soon as a youtube video."

Osho please EXPLAIN what got you banned as a speaker? and who was the person who had the authority "was he enlightened? Interesting stuff you never hear from RRSB's. Cannot wait for the youtube.

dear osho robbins
1. traditions are made by men and nobody including guru is bound by traditions.
2. a perfect master who is connected with the toppest form of word is God in human form. so, what is the problem if a human reads a newspaper,wears jeans,coughs or travels first class flight like an ordinary person. remember, god has decended to a very ordinary person at the very level of an ordinary human being. he can laugh. enjoy, sing songs,even dance. doing these activities does not prove that he is not gihf or unguruly.
4. guru can be a supar rich person or a medium class person or a poor fellow. it does not matter at all.
5. guru is a human. he can have funs to relax and sometimes mke gestures which some persons may find funny.it does not make that he is not a gihf.in fact each humn being is a gihf. only difference is that he has realised god . my dear osho, you are also a gihf and you can realise it if you tread path sincerely in the company of and help of a perfect master.
6. teaching are same as before. santmat is as old as the creation of this world. outer statements may be somtimes different. afterall. he is the boss.but one thing is sure that if we want to realise self and god, e ned his company. we need his help and he does not need our help. he can do any thimg he likes as he hs realised almighty and that way, he is also almighty. he is never wild or crazy. we are wild and crazy because we find it difficult to tread the path which is very difficult and needs lot of time, hardwork and patience. he has treaded the path, we have to start treading if we want to realise that we are also gihf's. regrds, hope you will find inntersting. waiting to hear from you.

Here it is Mukiti
the upload of the satsang I did in June 2002 in the UK (Birmingham)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTQiZb_8zs

I've uploaded the satsang which I did officially for
Radha Soami Satsang - when i was an official national speaker
This was the Birmingham Satsang - delivered in English
It was the beginning of the process of getting banned because
it was causing waves - as you'll understand when you hear the
satsang - it was not the 'normal' satsang.
Here it is Mukiti
the upload of the satsang I did in June 2002 in the UK (Birmingham)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTQiZb_8zs

I've uploaded the satsang which I did officially for
Radha Soami Satsang - when i was an official national speaker
This was the Birmingham Satsang - delivered in English
It was the beginning of the process of getting banned because
it was causing waves - as you'll understand when you hear the
satsang - it was not the 'normal' satsang.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTQiZb_8zs


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTQiZb_8zs

response to d.d. Bhatia

1. traditions are made by men and nobody including guru is bound by traditions.

I agree absolutely. However in the earlier posts - I was not referring to any
traditions. Please clarify what traditions you are referring to.

The changed teachings are not a tradition.

2. what is the problem if a human reads a newspaper,wears jeans,coughs or
travels first class flight like an ordinary person. He can laugh. enjoy, sing songs,
even dance. doing these activities does not prove that he is not gihf or unguruly.

Again - I agree wholeheartedly. A true guru is totally ordinary. But then why pretend to
be extra-ordinary?

Why not come out in the open and admit "I am not all knowing and I have no special powers"
and "I cannot come at the time of death to save you"

I agree the disciples propogate the myth - so do the scriptures of swami Ji and others.

"Gur ko manukh mat jaan - yeh hai sat purush ki jaan"

"Do not consider the guru to be an ordinary man - he is the very life of sat purush"

4. guru can be a supar rich person

I agree - he CAN be - but what about when the teachings and the satsangs of
Maharaj Charan Singh specifically state the opposite?

I copy a comment made in the blog headed
"Gurinder Singh's son becomes CEO of Religare"

--------------------------------
That once again reminded me of one of my favorite quotes by Charan that he used often in his Punjabi satsangs:

"Man sadda duniya de shaklan aur padarthan waste bhatkada aur tadafda firda hai, milna assin parmatma noo chouhne haan; ae dovein gallan ek saath taan kade nahin ho sakdian."

An approximate English translation would be:

While we all seek God, our mind
keeps contemplating about and wandering
after worldly possessions; the two can
never be achieved together.

May be, times have changed and so the quote may no longer be valid.

..... but how about this one:

“The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be.”
- Socrates

Posted by: Avi | May 26, 2013 at 09:42 PM
--------------------------------------

5. guru is a human. he can have funs to relax and sometimes make gestures which some
persons may find funny.it does not make that he is not a gihf.
in fact each humn being is a gihf. only difference is that he has realised god .
my dear osho, you are also a gihf and you can realise it if you tread path sincerely
in the company of and help of a perfect master.

Thanks for the tip - and I already have realised it.
but I did not have to do any meditation of exert any effort to realize what is already the case
god-realization is not an achievement


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwTQiZb_8zs

this is a satsang I did in Bham in June 2002 when I was an official speaker.


6. teaching are same as before. santmat is as old as the creation of this world.
outer statements may be somtimes different. afterall. he is the boss.but one thing
is sure that if we want to realise self and god, e ned his company. we need his help
and he does not need our help. he can do any thimg he likes as he hs realised almighty
and that way, he is also almighty. he is never wild or crazy. we are wild and crazy
because we find it difficult to tread the path which is very difficult and needs lot
of time, hardwork and patience. he has treaded the path, we have to start treading if
we want to realise that we are also gihf's.

The teachings are clearly different - I challenge you to watch the videos I posted
about the changes
first one is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2eweEr_50

the interperation of scriptures are different - sikhs interpret differently for example.

Well - following the same logic - I have also realized God - and I am also GIHF
so I can do anything I like and in fact I do - hence this satsang which does not
conform to any standard RSSB protocol - but is nevertheless truth.

Notice I don't even once say anyone should meditate or manifest the 'shabd' because
the real meaning of meditation and 'shabd' is very different from what RSSB followers think.

how many RSSB followers do you know who are God-Realized or reached 'Sach Khand'

which by the way would be pretty funny when the new teachings now say there is no such
place and it's just a metaphor

What would you think if I sang out of tune,
Would you stand up and walk out on me.
Lend me your ears and I'll sing you a song,
And I'll try not to sing out of key.
Oh I get by with a little help from my friends,
Mmm,I get high with a little help from my friends,
Mmm, I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends.


What do I do when my love is away.
(Does it worry you to be alone)
How do I feel by the end of the day
(Are you sad because you're on your own)
No, I get by with a little help from my friends,
Mmm, get high with a little help from my friends,
Mmm, gonna to try with a little help from my friends

Do you need anybody?
I need somebody to love.
Could it be anybody?
I want somebody to love.

Would you believe in a love at first sight?
Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time.
What do you see when you turn out the light?
I can't tell you, but I know it's mine.
Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends,
Mmm I get high with a little help from my friends,
Oh, I'm gonna try with a little help from my friends

Do you need anybody?
I just need someone to love.
Could it be anybody?
I want somebody to love

Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends,
Mmm, gonna try with a little help from my friends
Ooh, I get high with a little help from my friends
Yes I get by with a little help from my friends,
with a little help from my friends

What is so wrong if he nodded his head listening to the songs sang by the Sangat. And there can nothing be more joyful for the Sangat when the Guru is enjoying their songs.
Remember that by making such conclusions to smaller things we can never let some one down and Nodding the head does not mean he is Drunk. tapping foot on the floor and nodding the head while listening to music is a common habit followed by all punjabi's wide and all know that By Birth Gurvinder singh is a Punjabi.It is good to see he is following our common habits

Osho Robbin,
Here is a suggestion for you.If you have not seen the sachkhand then it does not mean that it does not exists. It is just that we have not realized it yet and that clearly means that we have not put enough hard work for it and we do not have patience for that.
Try doing the meditation yourself you will definitely realize the results. And not only you, people around you will realize that you have considerably changed.
Once you relies that sense of Dettachment inside you, then only you will be able to realize that it actually exists.
And then there will be no need of posting the link of your satsang on internet to prove yourself or compare yourself with gurvinder singh Dhillon.

Nisha Punjabi,

Nisha: If you have not seen the sachkhand then it does not mean that it does not exist.

Absolutely. I am not saying it does not exist. Guess who is? Gurinder Singh Dhillon – the guru you claim to follow – but you don’t even understand what he is saying. As a first step it might be an idea to actually understand what he is saying. I posted videos on you-tube
About the new teachings and how they differ from the previous ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm2eweEr_50

now understand this – I am not saying that it is a BAD thing. That is simply how many followers interpret the videos. I am simply pointing out the obvious – namely that he is giving out updated teachings.

In fact the new teachings make more sense because he is saying that “Sach Khand” is NOT A PLACE and therefore nobody ever ‘gets there’. He is saying it is a METAPHOR for enlightenment.

Sach means TRUTH and Khand means region or land or world. So it means – World or region of truth. What really means once you REALIZE the truth – you are residing in Sach Khand.


Nisha: It is just that we have not realized it yet, and that clearly means that we have not put enough hard work for it and we do not have patience for that.

Have you? Do you know of anyone who claims to have arrived? I know so many followers but have yet to find one who categorically says he had arrived. They are all on the way. Like eternal pilgrims – always walking and never arriving. This is in common with most other religions.

This is the delusion that all religious people have – that it’s about hard work and effort. It is about neither – because hard work and effort will not take you there. Realization does not take work or effort – only awareness. Imagine you are at home but dreaming you are far away in America. No effort is required to go back home. You don’t need to board any airplanes. All that is required is that you wake up and open your eyes. How much effort or hard work was that?

I have done the ‘hard work’ path – I did it for 20 years. I saw light, listened to the shabd, body became numb, saw the radiant form. This is what most satsangis long for – it is their goal. Yet I say – it is no big deal. So does Faqir Chand (goggle him). All visions and inner light and sound is created by the disciple – it is not real.

If you doubt this: read the guru granth sahib or any scripture. Sach or REAL is defined as what? That which is formless. Everything that has form and is in time and space is maya. So light, sound, radiant form, physical form of guru etc – all is maya. ALL FORM is maya, including inner forms – regions etc. anything SEEN is maya. The unseen is truth. The formless is truth.

Nisha: And then there will be no need of posting the link of your satsang on internet to prove yourself or compare yourself with gurvinder singh Dhillon.

I didn’t post it on you-tube to prove myself as equivalent to GSD. I am clearly not. What I show you actually works. No need to follow me blindly for decades and hope. I say truth is your real nature and you simply have to realize it. No effort – no meditation – no ‘doing’.

Nisha,

Nisha: What is so wrong if he nodded his head listening to the songs sang by the Sangat.

Did I say there was anything WRONG? I clearly said the opposite. I said he is pushing boundaries and that I was IMPRESSED with him – read the letter again.


Nisha: Nodding the head does not mean he is Drunk.

I said ‘LIKE’ he was drunk – not that he was drunk.


Nisha: tapping foot on the floor and nodding the head while listening to music is a common habit followed by all punjabi's wide and all know that By Birth Gurvinder singh is a Punjabi. It is good to see he is following our common habits

Really? So if he takes his turban off – and sings Punjabi folk songs – you are okay with that?
I agree – there is nothing wrong with it – he is showing his human side – which is great.

I really appreciate for the hard work you have done for 20 years and I congratulate you for all what you have realized while meditation like shabad, light and radiant form.
But tell me one thing ,can we realize this without doing meditation as you mentioned in your last comment "truth is your real nature and you simply have to realize it. No effort – no meditation – no ‘doing’ "

Nishi,
I have tried both.
effort and no-effort.
my experience is that effort does not work.
it works in all other areas of life - but realizing truth is not like other areas of life.
Let me give you a quote from granth sahib:
Jab lagh Jahni mujh teh kush hoi
tab lag is ko sukh nahin koi
jab lag janta mein kush karta
tab lagh garbh jun mein firta

as long as he (man) considers that he can DOING anything, he will not find happiness.
as long as he thinks he is the DOER, he will be re-born again and again.

What the scripture is saying is that YOU are not the DOER - you cannot attain - because YOU (the ego) is the barrier.

what do you think EGO is? I mean really. Not the concepts you have created in your head. What is ego? ego is YOU! and when you put in effort (of any sort) - YOU are the doer. and rememeber ego is the barrier - yet the ego is also the doer.
you don't know anything except the ego (you). it is all you know. therefore effort and doing is all you know.
so when I say effort is not required - it makes no sense because you think "If I don;t DO anything - how will it happen - is cannot happen by itself."
but the truth is - DOING and EFFORT is the barrier. It has never happened through doing.
Understand why. It is a REALZATION - not a GOING somewhere. If I have to GO to Sach khand - then yes - I agree - effort will be required for the soul to leave the body and traverse the regions and get to Sach khand.

Hence the disciples TRIES and fails because he HAS to fail, and goes to the guru to ask for grace - but does not understand what he is saying or what he is trying to do.

And this is the point of truth. If the guru says - well carry on - he misses the point. he tries harder.

if the guru is awakened - he will show the disciple that his effort will always fail - because it comes from EGO - the very thing he is trying to eliminate.

EGO cannot be eliminated - it is YOU! How can you remove yourself - no mater how hard you try? It is like pulling yourself up from your shoelaces - no matter how hard you pull - you can never succeed. Why? because it is YOU that you are trying to pull and YOU are doing the pulling.

That is why all effort is doomed. At best you will SEE visions, see light, hear sound, etc. All these are phenomena (Maya).

So how do you realize truth then? Go read the scriptures without the sant mat glasses on. They tell you - but you cannot see what they are saying because you are interpreting everything - and you get a different meaning.

There are specific steps to realizing the truth. It's not just a matter of saying "Oh okay - so I am already ONE - I am that which I have been seeking. Great." That is the view of those on the path of doing. They say well how can it happen just by thinking?

Step 1 is to UNDERSTAND. However that is just step 1. It is intellectual - it is not the same as realization. Realization is when it becomes REAL for you. When you get an AHA moment. When you get WISDOM.

All you have at the moment is knowledge and knowledge is like undigested food. Wisdom is not knowledge. It is the integration of understanding. It is when the understanding goes deeper.

A bit like riding a bike. First step is to understand how it's possible to ride on just two wheels without falling to either side. You understand the mechanics of riding - but you are not a bike rider yet. When you get on a bike - again you will realize this is impossible. Once you 'get' balance' it becomes easy.

When an unrealized guru teaches you - he gives you an impossible task. so you spend your whole life in fruitless effort. If you ever meet a real master - he will take you
on a totally different journey. One of DISCOVERING who you really are - beyond the body - beyond the mind - beyond all concepts. However - you have to discover - not just hear a theory.
This is the problem with the intellectual. He is trying to understand. understanding is the booby prize. step 1 is not the whole journey. Hence why scriptures say you need a master of spirituality.

People normally jump from one shore to the other. They are believers or skeptics.

To get truth - simply be open. No need to believe - or disbelieve. Both are traps. In both cases you are claiming to 'know' instead of simply saying "I don't know".

The believer is saying "I KNOW it's true - so I BELIEVE or have faith"

The non-believer or skeptic is saying "I KNOW it's NOT true - so I am a non-believer"

The open person is saying - I have no idea - let's just see.

That is also how a scientist works - he postulates a theory and creates an experiment to prove or disprove it. He does not say I BELIEVE in gravity - or I DON'T believe in things I cannot see (you cannot see gravity). Isaac Newton discovered gravity - he did not believe or disbelieve it. Truth is also a discovery - you are not creating it - it was always the case - you are discovering what was already there - like Isaac Newton did.

Hi Osho,
I am a student in the Univeristy of Warwick and currently staying in Coventry. I've been going to Satsang since my birth in Mumbai, India. Since I've recently moved here for a year, can I know what are the timings of regular Satsangs - that is on Thursdays and / or Sundays? Im aware that there is a centre in Birmingham that's the closest to Coventry.
Thank you so much.
Regards,
Karishma

Hi Karishma Rupchandani,

email me and I will let you know

oshorobbins@gmail.com

thanks

When an unrealized guru teaches you - he gives you an impossible task. so you spend your whole life in fruitless effort. If you ever meet a real master - he will take you on a totally different journey. One of DISCOVERING who you really are - beyond the body - beyond the mind - beyond all concepts.

When someone takes you on a journey, you discover only what your guru/guide tells you you're discovering. No one can help you to discover "who you really are". The "journey" is taken entirely on one's own. If someone must hold your hand, guide you, direct you, toy with you, teach you, you're not ready to discover anything. This is realization.

The most asked question I get asked is why I
don't critise Gurinder. Why always
Rajinder ?

Over a decade ago I became privy to inside info on this fellow by top reps. I helped
their wives get jobs and even attended
their weddings.

About 13 years ago I predicted Gurinder would go the way of Faquir Chand and Dr. Lal at Dayal Bagh. Dr. Lal did not accept guruship, only administration headship at Dayal Bagh.
Dr. Lal was the ligitimate successor at Dayal Bagh, a group larger than Beas when
Sawan Singh died.

Gurinder is a businessman. And. Beas is
a business, nothing else.

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE.

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

Even Beas books record Sawan Singh
as "greedy".

Sawan owned all the land and money.

Look at his will above.

I predict as Gurinder gets older
and nearer death, he will expose
many things.

Not even Gurinder knows if there is an afterlife and he is smart enough to
hedge his bets.

Gurinder is smart. Rajinder is stupid.

Rajinder's group is loaded with the satanic
and possession is very common.

Possession has always been my total concern.

MY TOTAL CONCERN. NOTHING ELSE.

I know you people don't believe in Satan
and his demons.

But, I believe they do exist, even though
I don't believe God exists in any form
you are familiar with.

ENLIGHTENMENT WILL NOT HELP YOU

Enlightenment is the realization of
no self.

I admit Brian, Tao and Tuscon on this
club are enlightened. I am exposing them,
even though they are humble and won't admit
it.

But, enlightenment will not help
the world.

COMPASSION overwhelmes EVERYTHING.

You do not need to be enlightened to
have compassion. Buddha was right,
even if his progeny was corrupt.

Compassion opens reality. Reality to
go far beyond your limited intellect.

You can be enlightened and totally naive
otherwise. TOTALLY.

So, a sub category arises. In this new category is Tara and Osho. The compassionate
ones.

It it no accident such unusual people
have arrived on this club.

SOMETHING ELSE is happening.

A whole new world beyond anything you
can imagine will open.

One in which all the facts we have been
given need to be re examined from top
to bottom in every area of life.

Enlightenment can be a curse as well
as a benefactor.

Hi Mike I,m slowly going thro all the blogs have only come across the above now. Please explain more about Satan and his demons and Possession I am most interested.

THE EMBALMING GRACE OF COMPASSION

The compassinate ones deal with a very harsh
cold reality.

Not even the enlightened dare tread there,
for they subconsciously do not want to be crucified by life.

Although, compassion and enlightenment
are not mutually exclusive and we have
people on this club in both categories.

We know this world is unreal, compossed mostly of space between the atoms. The Gurus
tell us so.

But, what if this world is real ?

Have you ever considered the possiblility
that this world is real ?

What if pain and suffering are real ?

What if our physical world does have meaning ?

What if the afterlife has no meaning and
this physical world has all the meaning ?

Would you not have wasted you life in the
persuit of an afterlife ?

In such a case. Would not the evil forces
have persuaded you to not care about our
world ?

SOMETHING ELSE IS HAPPENING I agree I cant put my finger on it or even explain it I just feel it. But could someone please explain how this blog works. This blog came out in August and we are commenting in Deember, Just by chance I came upon it. Do I have to go thro all the years just to catch up?

"SOMETHING ELSE IS HAPPENING"
quote June

Yes, these blogs are time consuming.
For a jolt in a few minutes read this.

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

You have probably figured out Gurus
are a scam.

And, want to know if there is life after
death ?

Jesus Christ, Buddha....... none of them
know.

No one knows. No one.

You will never know.

No one has ever known.

June, after I write the blog posts and publish them, they stay published forever. Or thereabouts. People can leave comments on the posts at any time. Could be years after the post was first published, since I started this blog in 2004.

If you want to read all of my brilliant, inspiring, informative posts -- sure, you'd have to click on the "more" in the archives section in the right sidebar and start working your way through, month by month, year by year.

Or you can use the Google search feature in the right sidebar. Just enter a subject you're interested in, like "Gurinder Singh" or "meditation" and you'll be led to Google results just for this blog and my other blog.

cc wrote: “When someone takes you on a journey, you discover only what your guru/guide tells you you're discovering. No one can help you to discover "who you really are". The "journey" is taken entirely on one's own. If someone must hold your hand, guide you, direct you, toy with you, teach you, you're not ready to discover anything. This is realization.”
Let me take this sentence by sentence
“When someone takes you on a journey, you discover only what your guru/guide tells you you're discovering. No one can help you to discover "who you really are".”
This is only true if you are following a fake guru who is telling you what to discover: like certain regions, certain colour lights etc. various phenomena. So you then see those lights. Actually he has not even taken you on a journey – he has simply hypnotized you – given you a belief system.
When a real guru takes you on a journey – it’s YOUR journey – not his. He is not telling you what you will discover. The discovery is yours. This is what Zen is all about. This is what Sufism is all about. If anything he is telling you to doubt him (the guru) because he does not want to become your belief. A real guru does not require or want you to believe in him. He does not want to you to follow. He wants you to find your own light and stand on your own feet.
“The "journey" is taken entirely on one's own. If someone must hold your hand, guide you, direct you, toy with you, teach you, you're not ready to discover anything. This is realization.””
You cannot take the journey on your own because YOU (the conditioned self) are the barrier to truth. You think you are alive – but you are not. All you are is a set of beliefs – a series of conditioning. You are the conditioned self. You simply live out your programming. So if you AGREE or DISAGREE with this or any statement – all it means is the information in your database (your mind) is the same or different. All you do is reference your database to decide if you agree. If you follow RSSB – and I ask “is Gurinder GIHF?” – you reference the database in your mind and it says next to Gurinder GIHF, so you say YES! If you don’t follow RSSB – you say NO because that is what is in the database. If you have never heard of RSSB you say “I have no clue”
In all cases – you simply refer to your past conditioning (your beliefs) to decide on what is true/untrue. This means you are just a robot and your opinions don’t really matter – because all they are is entries in a database which you think are true. If you leave RSSB you simply change those entries. You are still a conditioned machine, living out your programming.
The beginning of wisdom is when you realise that just because you say something and you believe it – does not make it true – it just makes it your opinion. And because we always want to be RIGHT – we defend our opinions and claim they are facts when in fact they are just opinions.
A real master does not ‘teach’ you anything. He has nothing to teach and no information to impart. In fact you already have too much information and think it is true. The master’s function is firstly to get you to be empty. To not take yourself too seriously especially as you don’t know who you are (but you think you are your conditioning and your mind and your opinions). The sant mat story of the disciple who goes to a professor and he gives him tea and overfills the cup – is about this. It is actually a zen story.

To Mike:- always a pleasure and a revelation to read you. If Satan is the personification of evil than perhaps God was created for the sake of relativity so that Satan could have something to measure itself against?

Thanks Brian for the explanation I can now navigate much easier. But Mike you have not answered my question. I want to know more about Satan, his demons and possession, This is not an idle question and please don't patronise me. You did mention that possession was all that interested you so explain.

Hi June,

For a good explanation, see Malachi Martin on You Tube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK3J3be1om8

He was the greatest exorcist of all time.

Radhasoami people Use a mantra in which On Kar and Ra Ran Kar
are a part of the five names. On Kar is Satan and Ra Ran Kar
is Maha Satan. Kal and Maha Kal.

Ankar is the mantra for Luciferian groups and was the well
known mantra of Aleister Crowley.

To use these names is to envoke Lucifer himself into
your life quite literally. There are 56 demons of various nature.
They all have their various modus operandi.

I believe Kirpal was Lucifer himself. His successor at Sawan Ashram,
Thakar Singh, complained he was possessed and that the ashram was
loaded with demons. I printed this letter for the public in my book.

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

Incredible experiences were to be had by his initiations and I saw
thousands of them in mass settings. There was also a Guru named
Hariharinada, a Yogananda disciple, whom could do the same thing.
Exact same surat shabda yoga. No other Gurus could produce first hand
experience amoung Radhasoami type gurus.

Some people think Satan is the collective unconscious of Carl Jung.
This is very close to the truth. But, these qualities take on
personalisation. These are very infectious qualities. Once had,
they are very difficult to get rid of and can destroy your life.

The main quality of demons is that they are liars and deceivers.

Thanks Mike for that information, Im not going to comment as I am still trying to process it and I am well aguainted with Martin Malachi I find his works very informative.

Oh you people can go on and on and on forever but unless you actually find something of substance your debates will be fruitless and a waste of energy and time. Obviously you have not found some peace and solace and are still searching and confusing yourselves. How do you sleep at night with all the jargon going through your minds? As for all the critics posting arguments and debates on all the religions and beliefs, etc, don't you get exhausted at the end of the day? For all those who previously followed Sant Mat why still the concern about the Master, his money, his behaviour etc. Surely, if you have left a Path or Religion and moved on and forgotten about the belief systems you followed and practiced and found something else to follow - why still all the concern? It seems you can't let go!

Averil, it sounds like you can't let go either. Why do you spend your time reading criticisms of gurus and Sant Mat if you are so sure this spiritual path is correct?

Why aren't you single-mindedly focused on your own spiritual growth, instead of pursuing "churchless" web sites? Seems to me like you must have some doubts yourself, or you wouldn't be so interested in what doubters have to say.

Welcome to the Doubters Club. You're a member! Until you let go of that attachment...

@Brian

You are just too good in responding in a way that the other person will fall short of words to continue the argument.

No doubt about the commendable work you have produced in the books you've authored.
(although I've read somewhere in your comments that you yourself now don't believe in what you yourself have written. what an irony I would say!)

I know that you entirely know why Averil is writing such a comment.
Somewhere I think you are right in the above comment that everyone has a liberty to express their feelings and their experiences.
But, still I think one should not go over exaggerate the things and being a little too abusive about others' belief that it starts hurting the feelings of other believers so badly. If someone has done something bad to me doesn't authorize me to do same with others.


@Averil

I know how bad you are feeling by reading all these nuisance articles with overdose of criticism and at times filled with hatred about a Path which you might be a believer of.

I am a believer of The Path and our loving Babaji are My Master.

I just want to say to you that don't feel bad at all, keep on focusing on your bhajan and simran.
One more thing I wanted to tell you that you can't imagine how much good Brian is doing by putting up this blog. At this moment I can not share the details but trust me, due to this blog, some truly marvelous things have happened.


May God brings peace in everyone's heart!
May everyone feels the Love within!


"Haar jaye man jab tujh se, Chadha de surat ko gagna"
- Soami Ji Maharaj

meaning: when your mind (mann) has bowed in front of you, don't wait a second, collect your Surat (soul) and push it to the Sky. Joy!


regards,
One Initiated

One Initiated :- I have read a lot of your comments. I'd like to ask you a question please....a question most Satsangi's will not answer....can you please share your inner experiences with us? Not quotes from Science of the Soul and the Path of Master by Julian Johnson regarding inner regions....I would like to hear about your personal inner experiences please....thank you kindly.

Hi One Initiated,

You say, "One more thing I wanted to tell you that you can't imagine how much good Brian is doing by putting up this blog. At this moment I can not share the details but trust me, due to this blog, some truly marvelous things have happened."

Why the secrecy? Is it only a select few who are privy to these marvelous things that have happened? I can understand if it is a personal and private experience that a person does not want to speak about, but if not, I'd love to hear some good news for a change :)

@th9thGate

When Master tells us to not to share your inner experiences with anyone, there are valid reasons for these instructions.
I've seen people even abusing this philosophy of masters and arguing "why to hide".
Or many others have talked like "they only hide because they don't have anything to share". It's a big pity for those kinds. I seriously feel that everyone should start spending much time sincerely towards it to enjoy themselves.

And to take it further, when on being compelled, someone take guts and would share any such thing.
The non-believers will crack jokes around that... that it's your illusion and blah blah.. I am really telling you the truth and I am not talking about this blog only.
But, in real life around me I've been to people who are either totally a non-believer of The Path or those who don't believe in The Master.
And this blog is also full of such persons who either have lost faith in The Path and even more absurdly those who don't even have a single bit of
understanding of the path, leave apart they have even any literal info on inner experiences, and they join hands with those who've lost faith in The Path and starts abusing the path and the master. It's a shameful act.

And you know all these things doesn't matter a slightest bit to those who really, by the grace of their Masters, are having something inside.
You know when the frog has himself seen the ocean, he will never ever trust any other frog who still keep on saying the well is biggest, even if the other frogs join hands and start abusing and making joke of the lucky frog... it won't matter to the lucky frog, because he's now living in a different pleasure.

But, after all, every single person is His kid only. and if the person will truly want to get merged back to the One, he will again send the Master to pick him up from this Jargon. The greatest thing is that the Master never gets offended and are always ready to take back those who really wish for.

And why it's been instructed to not to tell anyone about the inner stuff: (some things definitely from the books but includes personal experience too)

When we start discussing that (surely anyone will do it out of curiosity mainly), to anyone, he's certainly making an impact on the listener. And if this disclosure has brought a change in the behavior of the one who listens towards the one who discussed, and further if this thing has brought change in the one who disclosed it, it's super sure that it will start bringing the "ego" (the Ahamkaar) back. It might have took from months to years to decades to be able to control the ego in a positive way and to be able to receive the Master's grace.
And I am 100% sure that this happens, it had happened to me exactly the same and I had been through the consequences as well. But, by Babaji's grace it's far better now. I've seen an upside down change in myself on how to handle emotions and how to be the controller of the tongue.

The one liner is:
"Disclosure is not going to help anyone anything concrete, but surely going to bring you the loss"

Also another one: (trust me, this one is a killer)
"The more you digest, the more you'd be able to eat"

But I agree that reading about others' experiences definitely brings motivation to those who are sincerely trying for it. That's why there are books from the departed souls which are full of Love and where they have beautifully shared their experiences. These books have certainly helped a lot. If you'd get time and have slightest of curiosity left, read out the "Ruhani Diary part 1 and part 2" not sure if it's been translated to english yet... but if I will find it, I will let you know the updates. It's a marvelous composition, includes letters which the far off sangat had written to Bade Maharaj Ji and many of them have shared their experiences with the Master. It's going to bring the goose bumps if you'd read it patiently.


To answer your question, here is a little bit glance, just a sentence or two:

Had I been commenting with my real name, I'd never ever going to discuss anything here.
Since, being anonymous gives me this little liberty to provide something, on which some people can laugh, but I believe some might get inspired too.

(fyi: I'd be least bothered to receive anyone's criticism on this if it'd be so. joking, abusing or subjecting others' experiences as illusion is actually an unexplainable fact that you yourself is in biggest illusion and in fact bringing more darkness in your path... and it doesn't matter to the one who's in joy when experiencing)

By the grace of my Master, I hear to the melody 24x7 and it's just astonishing.
It's loudness and sweetness has increased tremendously over time and it now pulls me upwards at the time of meditation.
And achieving the feeling of state of death is a marvelous feeling, it's surely painful initially, but amazing afterwards.
There have been visible experiences which I do not wish to discuss at all.
Probably I will write them as letters to be posted after my death.


This all has been His will only.

To all the initiated ones:

Keep on doing your simran, it's going to do amazing things for you.
Once the sound current is live, steady and smooth, keep on listening to it whenever you get time, it's going to do real amazing things for you.
Death this time is going to be bigger than the supernova.


"Je ghat preet na prem ras, puni rasna nahin naam "
"Te nar is sansaar me, upaji bhaye bekaam "
- Sant. Kabir Saheb Ji

meaning: Those persons who do not have the essence of Love inside their heart, they'll never ever never be able to realize the "Naam" the "Shabd" within them. Those people have taken a birth in the world, but their life will go in vein. It'd be worthless for them to have this birth of human being.


regards,
One Initiated

Really it is not what those experiences are, that they happen, but rather what they prove or mean. Do they mean or prove there is life after death, that something of "me" persists after the brain starts to decay? Do they prove or mean "God"? The usual answer if one is aligned with Perennial Wisdom line of thought is, yes. If one is aligned with a more materialistic/scientific view, then, either no, or at least not necessarily.

In either event these interior, meditation experiences seem to be rather rare experience in the annals of humanity. But would one persist in the venture if one did not think they proved anything at all? Just some thoughts....and thank you, sincerely, One Initiated, for sharing this.

I dont understand what u are saying but i know only one think that if you speak any rabbish obout my baba ji you will not able to see next day if anybody want to talk with me its my number .828485115

Well after 40 years as a Charan Singh Ji disciple....who does no longer go to satsang and hang wigh the groping group.
I can say that my time with the master THE MASTER was loving sweet and wonderful.
As far as the promises go and all the dos and donts books teachings. We really dont know how it will all play out over time.
My take now is to not try to get somewhere but allow the inner being to be with itself not judge RS or any other form of relief the mind tries to placate the inner loneliness and spiritual insecurity we all feel but to allow that feeling to be ok and grow as ever the universe will take us.
There are no lost souls just energy balls of light. We are already there and currently the human form is our correct place.

gossip. Why gossip? Can't you people do meditation?

I can do meditation. I also can gossip. I'm multi-talented! I want to have it all!

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