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February 06, 2013


"There is not something or someone experiencing experience! You do not feel feelings, think thoughts, or sense sensations any more than you hear hearing, see sight, or smell smelling."

Yes, but the spiritual experience topic is for me the fascinating topic. When one claims to have had an experience of heaven, astral plains and regions, and meeting with the Godman within, and such. Then is this too, "simply" experience? A "simply" experience can only be generated by the human brain? Is simply experience different from a personal subjective experience?

"A "simply" experience can only be generated by the human brain? Is simply experience different from a personal subjective experience?"

Yes, as different as lucid dreaming is from waking consciousness. Since most people don't dream lucidly, a lucid dream is a remarkable experience when it occurs.

One could build a religion on a lucid dream; make lucid dreaming a religion.

Ah yes... eat, drink and be merry.

Alan Watts was a drunk and a womanizer and died of complications due to alcoholism at the age of 58.

So there you go. There's no spirit or soul. No afterlife. All spiritual experiences are simply the brain's imaginings and hallucinations. Only one life and then you are nothing. May as well spend your life in drunken bliss...

"Alan Watts was a drunk and a womanizer and died of complications due to alcoholism at the age of 58."

Can't see past the booze and the broads to the brilliance?

just me, I'm not sure what your point is. Einstein enjoyed the company of women. I seem to recall that he was sort of a "wild thing," engaging in what some would call immoral behavior.

Yet he revealed truths of the cosmos that have stood the test of confirmation. In my opinion, Watts did the same. Modern neuroscience is confirming Watt's thesis that there no is "I" inside our head, just natural body/brain.

Also, I've read many of Watts' books. I don't recall him ever saying that his goal was to teach people how to be chaste and sober. That is, sexually discreet and alcohol moderate. So if that wasn't what Watts set out to teach, how can he be criticized for not knowing how to be chaste and sober?

just me, a P.S. that just came to mind:

My mother was an alcoholic. One of her sisters probably also was. My mother eventually got cirrhosis of the liver, when I was in high school. Her sister died tragically from a fire seemingly caused by a cigarette igniting a chair while she was passed out in it.

Calling heavy drinkers/alcoholics "drunks" may be accurate. But it also has a judgmental tone that bothers me. I know what a wonderful flawed person my mother was. Heck, even that word "flawed" is judgmental. Who I am to say what is a flaw?

Science is coming to know that many mental and physical problems have a genetic basis. Maybe my mother, and Alan Watts, were driven to heavy drinking in part by their genes. You should keep this in mind when you dismiss the value of someone's life because of their behavior.

Yep, I think so too Wait... who is that you say that thinks so too?

I have trouble with the "inside your head" idea. I don't feel that thoughts exist in any "place." It seems to me that mind does not have a location. Not everything has to have a location, you know.

But yes, all we know is what "we" experience. The "we", it seems, is a mental construct too. It's worse than unnecessary, it's a tiresome burden. Those who have experienced it suddenly disappearing are quite clear about this.

The fact that we cannot find a person within is only circumstantial evidence; if I did find someone there, it wouldn't be me since I am doing the searching and finding.

We know there is no "WHO" within us.

Personalization of impersonal thought,
is the grand delusion.

Thought and experience are things, they
can never be a WHO.

Alan Watts drank wine, not hard liquor.

There are many false rumors about such people.

The big question after realizing there
is no WHO that can live on after death is,
is there any way to survive death at least
as an experiencer ?

Is there an unknown factor .............
Something Else we have not considered.

Something Else which can make real ...
what was unreal before ?

Every entity leaves a trace.

Can it be our vibration rate somehow
continues ? Like DNA passes down through
the generations always improving itself ?

As in opening the hand of tought..Kosho Uchiyama:

Jiko..is the small and also great Jiko 'I'__----------Self or not self..:)

What eventually is'nt there even ,just experience..awareness..conciousness.

Same...(?) I think so..eventually.

Thanks cc,

Is Lucid dreaming not a personal subjective experience? Clarify that for me. Same for waking consciousness? Surely, all human experiences are personal subjective experiences. I'm just trying to clarify, if a spiritual experience lies outside a personal subjective experience. Thanks for your response.

A "spiritual experience" is totally personal and subjective because it has more to do with the meaning attributed to the event than to the alleged event itself. For instance, people who are convinced they can leave their bodies are convinced they will not die, and that's the whole point of the exercise. Or take gurus, for example. If Alan Watts facilitates your emerging understanding and self-knowledge, that's a good guru. But if Baba Gunuj would have you believe something that can be neither proven or disproven, that's a bad guru.

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