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July 20, 2012


Hi Jim!

You wrote

"I ll try to find a better answer with words

The best answer is listening to the Sound and the DOER is forgiven

But this is not the best forum to proclaim that
What might appeal to some is that realizing YOU are the Anahabad Shabd Sound
ITSELF and while listening you know all complaints towards your self are melting away

Even in that Situ and realizing you could really change the destinations of all


With words it's so difficult - Mystics use words but it's between the words that we find Truth AND in their Gaze ( Dhyan )-Also the 5 wonderful words are powerstations; not words

Here is also the importance and superbness of a Master, ° ° ° say somebody fully and constantly ( though I don't know for sure - it(s complicated )
He is there for people like me, - to lazy , to undiciplined , can only be good in vegetarism wow& hihi, . . . but seeing the Master in physical or otherwise - HE GIVES CADEAUX ALL THE TIME
and even that , I cannot explain

My own phrase I like so much on this subject of the erring God
"HE is just an eternal Love Generator "
Tesla would have liked

If It could be explained with mind IQ words, . . . It would not exist

I have no more at the moment"
As Master said, Joy makes us believers.

There is no way to explain it.

Personally, when I cease to exist, things are great. So who is left to place blame then? I don't see myself as the cause of anything, so how can there be guilt, at that higher level?

And at this level it is only rational to deal with what is under my own responsibility and control.

Blaming someone else certainly makes no functional sense, least of all someone unknown to me.

But it's entirely correct to say that in concept the creator is certainly responsible. If people misbehave he made them with that proclivity.

When we go within the is only joy, and companionship and kindness, so all that wet towel thinking evaporates.

To Spencer, Well i had a lot of very bad things that happened in my life not to believe. Peace.

Any why did God that filthy scumbag punish us good innocent people for? What the hell did we ever do wrong to begin with anyway? And God should be punishing the real rotten low life loser people out there that are causing so much crime and hurting other people for no reason at all. Those garbage people should be destroyed by God which then we would have justice. Explain that one for me if you can.

The way that i look at it is that God is a very evil scumbag for punishing many of us very good innocent people for No Reason at all when he should really be punishing the very evil low life piece of shit people that commit so much crime and hurt other innocent people. Those people should are the ones that really deserve to be punished very severely. Don't you think? Well i would certainly say so which i am very sure that Most other people out there will Agree with me as well.

Hi Reality Check!

You wrote:
"To Spencer, Well i had a lot of very bad things that happened in my life not to believe. Peace."

The question is, how to cope best?
It really doesn't matter what you believe in, unless belief and well being are connected. Then, find a belief, or system of living, that gives you the most peace and happiness. No system prevents the events that happen that we cannot predict nor control. But a good system of belief / practice / exercise can help. Think of a good hobby. One that fits your schedule and gives you joy. One that helps balance life.

This whole life was a hobby that got out of control. So many bad things. And many of them out of our control. Those, I find, easier to deal with psychologically, than the ones I caused. Those grieve me greatly. But what can we do but attempt to learn and make better choices?

My son has disabilities and has since birth. Yet, the greatest joy of my life was stroking his hair when his head was in my lap, awaiting his medicine to alleviate the excruciating pain that tortmented him.

He was much stronger than I. I was praying, and swearing. But my son, who was suffering, said to me , "It's OK Dad. It's just karma. I'll get through it."

In that moment he changed my life. My son was the teacher and I the student.

You can call it Karma, you can just call it pure character. Call it whatever you like.

But if you find it, hold tightly to it.

That will save you.

Jim sutherland wrote (24 aug)

"Charan Singh's Radiant Form appearing to me, looking exactly as he did in his later years before he died, occurred 26 years after his physical death!

It also indicates that Master Charan Singh has not yet, reincarnated, nor left his Astral Form completely, because he came to me while I was in the Void of Samadhi, not even contemplating on his form!
It never happened in my brain. It happened in the Astral Plane."

If this is actually true, it makes a mockery of the teachings because it means even Charan has not reached Sach Khand and is instead
wandering around the astral.

All these inner visions are not real - they are a projection of your own desires.

Yous visions are not real - you create them - like Faqir Chand verified

To Osho: you wrote,..."If this is actually true, it makes a mockery of the teachings because it means even Charan has not reached Sach Khand and is instead
wandering around the astral.

All these inner visions are not real - they are a projection of your own desires."

Jim answers: PLMs operate from Sach Khand, but travel to any other Plane they choose to, in order to manifest to their Desciples. They manifest in physical bodies, which is material, that is a cage or garment, to encapsolate their Soul, which is knotted wirh Mind, Causal Body" , which is further insulated from the physical body by their Astral body, ( Condom of the Soul) in order to allow the physical body to be able to house the knotted soul/mind with out being fried, by the Electrical/Magnetic Spiritual Current.

Astral Bodies retain the most recent Form of the physical bodies they used to manifest in, after the physicsl body dies. Astral bodies are able to shape shift, or increase, or decrease in size, stretch like a Condom, or shrink, and even manifest in any age or form they took while being a physical body.

Astral forms in the Astral Plane usually appear at their peak age of 30 earth years, when seen by other Out of Body souls, during dreaming or Meditation, when the OBErs are seeking to meet them.

But, when they are NOT specifically seeking to see them, or when the Astral body of the PLM or any other Astral body of a deceased physical body decides to manifest to another living soul, then, they will manifest in the Form most familiar to that person.

In my case, Charan used the form of his older Astral body to manifest to me, along with his audable accented Voice, that could not be mistaken for another pseudo mischievous spirit.

I am not a Sant Mat Fundamentslist blindly bound to only what is in Sant Mat Literature, but I corraborate their Teachings with other Scriptures, Holy Writings, Spiritist and Metaphysical Teachings and Philosophy, as well as Theology.

I know what I know, by experience, and I am easily able to separate fact from fiction, or Faith from Knowledge.

You may continue your unbelief, or continue to believe a donkey is pulling my cart, but I KNOW a Horse is pulling my cart. ( Charan's example)

I know the difference between concentrating on a photo, and the image manifesting at the Third Eye like when looking at a light bulb, then closing your eyes and seeing that image.

If Charan's appearing to me in a Form I would recognize him most, along with his accented voice, giving me explicit personal alerts to some thing my body needed in order to retain my knotted soul/mind awile longer, than if that is not within the scope of Sant Mat Philosophy, than, I fully accept my heresy as a valid Teaching, for me personally.

You have not been able to access to my " Kingdom Within." You have discarded the Key of Knowledge that unlocks that Kingdom.

You may choose to continue in your unbelief, and join Chand and his desciples, or, you might consider reexamining where you veared off the Path and went astray from your First Love of The Master.

According to Gurinder Singh's teaching, in one of RSSB's latest Books, " Concepts & Illusions", you could even return to a lower specie and not be given another human body because you refuse to meditate and have turned away from what you promised to do when you were initiated . Gurinder Singh says the 4 lives teaching by former Masters have been misunderstood. He said Initation in to Sant Mat does NOT guarentee that you will not transmigrate back to a lower specie if you refuse to meditate and follow the instructions you were given at initation

So, you may be absolutely right about Gurnder changing the Teachings .

We each must decide for our selves,what to accept or reject.

As for me, my Horse knows exactly how to get my Wagon to Sach Khand where Charan Singh is operaring from.

Your donkey might lead your astray, OSHO. You might consider up grading to a Horse.

Everything wrong with the world is his fault so you can take the blame for it I'm not fronting your stupid fight anymore you created all you can fix it and he knows he can he hates himself he's an insane fool the entire University is sanity and stupidity it's all contradicting itself as we speak and I know this will get to him so here it is. I hate you and your worthless son he was nothing but a con artist ever since you made me trip and break my big toe I hated you harder for that I hope they activate CERN to completely destroy you from existence. Also I might even sell my soul one day so f*** you even harder and you stupid son I never cared about that mother f***** I'm glad he's dead and I'm glad he's gone now let me blasting the vile name of Jesus f*** Virgin Mary eat s*** and die you f****** w**** I wish you would have raped that child before he was born

Yeah completely f***** my toe up to I'm not done with you yet I'm going to keep blaspheming you until you finally show yourself you're a bastard who was born from a w**** I hate you and hate you hard you're nobody sick of your stupid people preaching your stupid lies and your stupid book I'm sick of you when you come back again I'm going to choke you while you're still young and break your young Neck and piss all over your rotting corpse.

You said all this to yourself
cause You are That


Realize that , next change what can be done better


Dear Azzan

The world and the lord are not your responsibility.

Your anger is a different matter. She lives in your house. You tell her to leave but every day you feed her all the food you have, even the food meant for you.

That's on you.

Woaauuuw Spencer
Pity we have no "like" system here

So true you said



Well for a very good man like me that really was hoping to meet a good woman to settle down with to have a family which i can certainly blame God for this since i just hate to still be single and all alone today which wasn't my choice at all to begin with. God does punish many people in different ways but why the hell this? It really hurts me to see so many millions and millions of other men and women out there that were so very blessed to find real love with one another and have their families as well which really makes their life very much complete. But since God really has no control at all over the very rotten low life piece of shit pathetic loser women that we have out there now really adds to the problem altogether as well. Women today unfortunately really have changed from the good old days when finding love back then was certainly much easier to find for the men in those days that were really looking for it since they never had any trouble at all either. Women back then were the very complete opposite of what they're now which is a real shame how they really changed for the worst of all today. And now with so many women that have their Careers which they're the worst of all as well since they're now so very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, narcissists, and very money hungry as well. These very pathetic women nowadays will just want the very best of all and will never settle for less either which you can see how very horrible that they have become these days. They will never go with any of us good innocent men that make much less money than they make since today most of these women are going for the Rich Type Of Men anyway. And when many of us men will try to start a simple normal conversation with a woman that we really are hoping to meet which she will be so very Nasty with us men and walk away. Quite a few times i even had women Curse at me for No Reason at all which other friends that i know had the very same thing happened to them as well too unfortunately. What in the world happened to these women today that became so very Evil like this now? Even God can't do anything about this now since they're very much out of control today altogether. So in a way i really can't blame God at all like i did mentioned in the beginning of my comment since God will never be able to control these women at all since he gave them the free will to do what they want since Most of these women now are a real Disaster and are certainly beyond help now unfortunately. Why couldn't God make women like the old days when Most of them were very Normal at the time?

A wall of text nobody in their right mind would ever read.

As a child...growing up catholic...with nuns, priests, parents who always told me GOD HEARS YOUR PRAYERS...but as a child being bullied for being overweight, not pretty, we were the 'weird kids" who werr eating organic and healthy foods in the 70's when no one else did. I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed so hard that god would take the torture of being the "FAT KIDS" away, that he'd heal me from the very obesity that the priest preached from the pulpit that "being over weight was a sin". My mother starved us...she gave us the very minimum of food, she made sure there was no snacks whatsoever, not a box of serial, not a single bag of chips, ketchup was evil, and for breakfast if we were lucky we'd have ONE egg with a piece of thin toast OR half a protein drink with a half cup of coffee mixed in which we both HATED..but there was nothing else to eat so we drank it. We had "diet bread" for a simple sandwich of thinly sliced Leo's meat package chopped, pressed and formed and divided between 4 kids those very thin slices of Hollywood bread...with barely a smear of margarine. With that we were "blessed" with one very small apple. ....after school we were allowed one piece of fruit..which was supposed to hold us until dinner. Dinner was a small piece of chicken, a wafer thin pork chop or a very tough piece of chop steak, a vegetable and a small salad. ALMOST NEVER DESSERT--unless it was an extremely special occasion....how in the world did we ever become fat...to this day...my brother and I are still asking the question....as we battle the stigma, the incomprehensible fact that unless you have lived it...you will never understand it...

I know that i made my comment over six weeks ago but with all the suffering that we have in this world now, how can many of us have faith in God anyway? Look at all the people that are dying from starvation, especially poor innocent children. Is that what God really does? It is very upsetting to see that since we also have all these diseases and sicknesses nowadays that are killing many of us very good innocent people as well too. Peace.



I don t remember any occasion in my life
that made me SO SICK , including sea sickness
This was long before I heard of the Master

Next One year before I heard of HIM, i did Pranayama breath exercises
which made me go IN stanta pede
and gave horrible inner experiences
I described them 4 years ago in this group

HE has always protected me
which started in around 1850 and of course before

Don't give up - It's Wonderful


Why would pranayama give bad experiences...pranayama is great.
I really dont understand why people have against pranayam,, and mostly they dont even have a clue what they are talking about. Once i told a satsangi that Charan did pranayam for his whole life i thought he would suffocate me ....aka he was pissed as helll...so i stopped conversation.... Pranayam for healt is great!

Hi 777, thanks for the reply.

Your blissful experiences are interesting.

The reason I ask about mind altering drugs is because my brother used to smoke Marijuana (also known as Cannabis) and he travelled to India in the sixties and was initiated by Maharaj Ji. I remember him telling me about how he experienced having a vision of Charan beforehand when he was high.

From the article I posted previously "The Neurochemicals of Happiness" talks about "Endocannabinoids: “The Bliss Molecule” Endocannabinoids are self-produced cannabis that work on the CB-1 and CB-2 receptors of the cannabinoid system. Anandamide (from the Sanskrit “Ananda” meaning Bliss) is the most well known endocannabinoid. Interestingly, at least 85 different cannabinoids have been isolated from the Cannabis plant. The assumption is that each of these acts like a key that slips into a different lock of the cannabinoid system and alters perceptions and states of consciousness in various ways."

"" he cannabinoid system and alters perceptions and states of consciousness in various ways

But first about Pranayama
It is great to develop th 5TH Chakra
which is a High Place and we can perform miracles even
the 6 siddhis , and even combined with proper ascese become One with
Brahm , next even ParaBrahm, the power generator
of the second spiritual region (consciousness_conditions again )

Pranayama is also fabulous for health
and I advise everybody to start BUT UNDER GUIDANCE
but not as a main direction if u want the Crown Chakra via the Third Eye )

If there is no guidance your jeeva can visit high "conditions"and also Dante s inferno
places ( time_space_spheres of your own consciousness )

Like in Sant Mat for the 7th place , in Pranayama the best is if you find a teacher
who is already there

Yes Charan did it - He told me

In my case , I had a false "jump start" doing things completely UN-guided
but (found out later) directed by my future Master Charan and my former Masters Sawan and
Seth Shiv Dayal Ji

All lower Chakras can be influenced/ energize by many chemicals
Even simple music does it via Dopamine/Serotonine nanogram fluctuations

Results vary from happiness to sadness and here also guidance is needed
to prevent disasters
LSD and DMT etc can give great peace of mind, .... they ended the Vietnam war even !!!

The reason a satsangi can't use them is cause the waves that may be produced artificially
are not under your control
Even becoming satsangi after periods of 'use'
certain "mêmes", habits/conditions in the individual time_space_consciousness_mind
must first be corrected
If not, .... a rebirth EVEN might be necessary, which is to my humble opinion not a bad thing if the enchanting Anahabaded Shabd will speedily accompany you

HE is really regulating every nanosecond of your life
in case of every rssb disciple

It is such a wonderful and delicious ( Sound ) system

Wishing U_all the best of it


Ok 777 cool.

Why did God make so many dumb women these days? Most of these very pathetic women are very busy sleeping around with different men all the time unfortunately. And most of the women today just can't commit at all to only one man since these idiots just don't know the meaning of commitment.

Quote 777 :

(...) Charan did pranayam for his whole life (...)

(...) Yes Charan did it - He told me (...)

That's a remarkable piece of information.

That would mean that although RSSB practices do not (as far as I have been able to make out) in any way directly take the support of pran-ic practices, nevertheless pranayam does directly give benefits (if only health-related benefits) that RSSB practices don't ; and what is more, this is conclusive proof (conclusive within the RSSB paradigm, that is) that pranayam does not impede RSSB meditation.

Thanks for sharing this, 777.

If there is anything further about this aspect that you can share with us, that will be appreciated too. For instance, why exactly did Charan Singh do his pranayam exercises, for what kind of specific benefits? Did he get into that kind of detail with you?

Hi Sweet Appreciative Reader

It's the same as ( when he did this in the Amritsar Airport Waiting room ) rubbing HIS Eyes, my wife saying : " that must be quite a job > giving Darshan, all the time "
HE : Yes : and I cannot always using Sunglasses because they beg me not to do so.

So I compared pranayama vs Crown Chakra
as this rubbing for relief is not really intervening with the sweet ever present Sound

I think he also took an aspirin once in a while

If we ( rssb ) stay at the Throat Chakra to much however, . .
we don't go higher

Also : For those accepted in 7/7 all these spheres below are fully integrated

There is a handicap with this Sound :
When you dive in it and are fully(?°) Benefitting, enjoying
you literally "cannot" look down

In a Masters case this is true also, except when HE is commanded to do so by The Mauj ! (Order)

Like :
Sawan doing his daily walk had a certain pain
A disciple seeing a plant and is inside ( à la Saint Francis ) informed tea from it s flowers would diminish Sawans pain

Sais Sawan : Thank You So much , I certainly will make the tea of it
Thanks a lot

An hour later
Disciple : But You are the Master : You hadn"t have seen that Yourself

Sawan : So Sorry, I was so absorbed in the sweet Sound
(I paraphrased this )


Dear 777,

Thanks for recounting that rather intimate discussion that your wife and you were so fortunate to have had with Charan Singh!

True, rubbing the eyes in that unmistakable, peculiar fashion (after first blowing on the palms and rubbing them together) is definitely a practice rooted within systems that use pranayam (as well as other pran-ic visualization practices). Many tantric rituals/meditations end with that particular act.

But was that the full extent of Charan Singh’s pran-ic practice (just an occasional rubbing of the eyes to refresh them), or did he have a more detailed regimen? Would you know? If you know more about this, I would be very eager to hear from you about it.

I ask this, because generally most systems of meditation insist that practicing other systems impedes accrual of the full benefits from their own particular system. The systems that I am personally closely acquainted with (and practice regularly) also say this. However, my personal experience has been that assiduous practice of other systems not only doesn’t impede progress, but actually assists overall progress across all systems (provided you have the discipline to give full attention to all of them, as prescribed). On the other hand, this “progress” I speak of is merely my wholly mundane assessment, and made without any pretense at supra-normal understanding. I try, in the course of my practice, to steadfastly rely fully and wholly on my first-hand perceptions alone, eschewing doctrinaire mumbo jumbo, nevertheless there are times of weakness when I find myself doubting the wisdom of my eclectic approach.

Which is why I am so very curious to know more about your account of Charan Singh’s lifelong practice of Pranayam, because it seemed to indicate that even at the very apex of one particular system (in this particular case, the RSSB surat shabd yog system, which is decidedly un-pranic in its methods) there is no perception of impediment on account of the effects of Pranayam. But of course, a simple rubbing of the eyes to generally refresh them, that is just a token and not very significant practice from Pranayam, and I wouldn’t really be justified in reading too much into it.

Given that background, 777, can you shed any more light (basis either your own discussions with Charan Singh, perhaps at that time when you were with him at that airport, or else on some other occasion/s, or else even basis second- or third-hand accounts of other Satsangis that you may have heard or read and which ring true to you) on what kind of Pranayam exercises Charan Singh actually practiced?

Thanks again, and my best wishes!
-- Appreciative Reader.

Appreciative Reader Charan did a few asanas and a few pran exercises for health... And in those three books with his questions and a..he firstly answers the same rssb retoric abot pranayam to a person but later when questioner insist with questions Charan says pranayam and asanas are great...which you can find out by your own self. I am searching and learning from different books and schools cause i dont trust in any teacher cause i learned that every school is different and everybody has his own feelings and experiences. When i studied Satyananda of Bihar i got to know he was no different than me or anybody. Being on the fast he had same strugles as me with that difference that he broke the fasting and i did not. So...but i am going slow...

Thank you, moongoes. That was helpful. Much obliged.

It appears from how you phrase your comment that you’ve based your observation about Charan Singh’s practice of Yoga and Pranayam not just on “those three books” but other sources as well. Am I correct in inferring that from what you say in your comment? And if so, would you please elaborate further, about what (else) you base that observation on?

Also, would you be able to tell me which specific book you’re referring to in your comment? I’ll be happy to go check that bit up for myself if you can do that. (Afraid I’m nowhere near as well-read in RSSB literature as many of you here, and have no clue which “those three books” you refer to might be!)

Thing is, what you say (and what 777 had said earlier) ties in neatly with my own instincts and with the personal philosophy behind my eclectic practice. It is precisely because this bolsters up my own position up so very well, that I’d like to make doubly sure that I’m not taking the easy way out and feeding my bias by embracing soothing but illusory supports. That is why I’d like to make as sure of this factoid as possible before actually accepting it.

Oh sorry AR yes yes...these are three books full of questions and answers.

what kind of god would make me go through hell to be able to even type this email? Thats how fucked up all has been lately ! F this and F HIM/ Her/ Whatever the F it PRETENDS TO BE!!!!!

Brought up christian.... i was of the kindest people youd ever meet........ I truly am...was! F this and F whatever it is the fuckin fortunate lucky fucks are thanking! Im sick of being the kindest and getting shit on!!!!! F THIS HIM HER IT WHATEVER IT CLAIMS TO BE!!!! F YOU!!!!!

Why does it matter you are showing yourself through these emails with your different monikers, have some love towards yourself otherwise your own anger will eat you up.

Why would anyone believe in God that filthy no good cock sucking faggot pig in the first place? The way that he punishes most of us good innocent people that never did anything wrong in the first place to begin with, which really amazes me how God the filthy scumbag would let this happen to us anyway. That piece of shit should be punishing the very rotten no good scum sucking other people out there that are really destroying this fucking rotten earth in the first place since they are very evil as it is. These low life losers already have caused so much damage as it is which is a real shame that we really have no justice at all in this world that unfortunately is going down the toilet very fast. Innocent lives are being loss for no reason at all and this is a very disgusting world altogether now more than ever. How many more people have to die from God's stupidity which a real God would have never done this at all in the first place to begin with.

Fuck You God, you are obviously not an atheist then. There is still hope for you.

I SOOO agree with you!

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