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April 29, 2011

Comments

Thanks for sharing Brian !

A part of the letter read — " It is my hope that our Sangat in Japan has not been too adversely affected by these events. "

Hope ? Not sure ? Isn't GIHF supposed to know it all ? Oh, that was the human side I guess. I wish Gurinder would write a fat cheque to any charity in Japan.

Some Indian mystics view God as almost exactly like Christianity does: granting favors in response to prayers.

But mystics are human. The hallmark of any decent human being is understanding and compassion for the human condition. Why can't they relate to people on a human level with words of empathy and hope... even if, however arguably, they have some deeper or more philosophical understanding of tragedy.

If God is in control of the world, then God allowed the 9.0 earthquake to hap
pen. What sense is there in praying to the Big Guy Upstairs who was responsible for the disaster to now ameliorate it?

None undoubtedly. But how else could you express a personal measure of compassion for this terrible event... In the face of incomprehensible tragedy, we all want to voice a hope that it's ended and better times are ahead. Financial and other help can always be done behind the scenes.

Gurinder Singh is saying to disciples in Japan, many of whom probably are still engaged in getting their lives back in order after the earthquake/tsunami, that they should be focused on putting in 2 1/2 hours of meditation every day -- not on helping to rebuild their homes, community, and nation.

That's absurd. I can't imagine any religious figure not encouraging disciples to rebuild their lives and provide real help to others on every level. But at the same time, they may want to remind them to live in the "here-now", to realize how fleeting and unpredictable life can be, and/or to draw solace/strength from spiritual discipline.

Dungeness says: "But mystics are human."

--Here are the "human" things a Param Sant Sat Guru can do according to RSSB:

1. Liberate souls from the illusion of Maya and take them to the highest spiritual region of Sach Khand within four lifetimes.

2. Place an astral duplicate of himself "inside" the disciple which serves as a guide through the vastness, pitalls and delusions of attractions in the inner regions.

3. Is able to turn heavy karma (sword thrusts) of his disciples, if it is his "mauj" (divine will), into lesser karma (pin pricks).

4. Is able at will to traverse all the heavenly "inner" regions at will.

5. ONLY by initiation from such a master is one able to be liberatd from mind and maya.

5. One glance from the Sat Guru can "burn" vast amounts of karma.

6. Even though the master may have millions of followers he is inwardly aware of their spiritual condition and circumstances and administers their karma in the most efficacious manner for their ultimate release from the cesspool of pinda, the physical universe.

7. The master is obligated to see to it that each and every one of his initiates reaches the spiritual goal. The disciple may leave the path but the master remains with him and continues with his guidance.

8. He is one with God (assuming somehow that there is anything other than oneness with "God".)

9. He is able to see at a glance which souls are "marked" for him to take under his wing for the "journey" back home to Sach Khand.

10. Is able to determine that eating eggs is detrimental for spiritual progress yet wears shoes and other clothing made from leather without spiritual detriment.

11. Has inner knowledge that consuption of cheese made with rennet also is detrimental to spiritual progress.

12. Is able to determine that 2.5 hours of meditation is the correct amount of spritual practice to effect release from bondage to the physical world.

13. Initiation by him is necessary for spiritual progress and the "holy names" given by him have a special elevating power.

14. He is shabd incarnate. (Well, if shabd permeates the entire creation aren't we mere mortals shabd incarnate too?)

I'm probably leaving out some good ones, but I'm rusty having abandoned this absurd faith 15 or more years ago.

And all such a Great One has to say is that he hopes all his Japanese devotees are OK in what sounds like a form letter?

Doesn't he, shouldn't he, already know exactly how each one of his japanese devotees fared in the disaster?

tucson, that's a great summary of the RSSB guru's "humanness." You don't sound rusty about Sant Mat teachings at all.

It is indeed strange that someone with such divine powers would have to pray to the Lord for assistance to Japan, and apparently is clueless about what has happened to his disciples after the earthquake.

Tucson, very well stated.

Dungeness says —
" Financial and other help can always be done behind the scenes. "

RSSB lists every little charitable initiative so — no. All the " behind the scenes " activities are most likely profitable, questionable and against the philosophy's teachings, which if revealed, could be catastrophic for the mission and its survival. But the Sangat may never know the truth because a) the stuff that the Guru and RSSB hide is flawlessly camouflaged and b) the majority of the following has little or no education to have a discerning mindset.

I often hear the phrase " Not even a leaf moves without HIS will ! " in RS circles. But when my grandfather passed, he was clueless... clueless to the extent of expressing surprise when he heard the news. At the time most RS relatives and friends had a common conclusion — he was just pretending to be human.
Well, how about if it actually is the other way around ? HIGF ?

The greatest sign of a true Param Sant's Mercy is the severance (at least a marked reduction, leading to ultimate cutting of all ties) of all worldly bondages, worldly interests, worldly inclinations, worldly desires, worldly attachments and worldly ambitions. The tyranny of mind and matter is very real to a disciple of a bona fide Sant Sat Guru, and that blessed disciple is burning inside, intensely desirous of escape from Pind and Brahmand, and delivery to the incomparable regions of Dayal Desh (one's original and True Home). Spiritual progress can only be accomplished while in the human frame. It is incumbent upon all sincere seekers to find a True Sat Guru to accomplish the ultimate feat, which is the withdrawal from this unreal world by reconnecting with the centripetal sound current, leading soul infallibly to the rarified regions within, traversing all the intermediate stages of Pind and Brahmand, and thence to Sat Desh. Please see www.masterpath.org if interested in the supreme journey, as well as a propitious opportunity and open invitation.

Albert,

You're full of crap with all due respect. (I mean, otherwise you are probably a pretty good chap).

But I'm tired of mincing words on this blog. I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. You simply have heard it and have bought into it. How do you KNOW any of it is true?

How is what you believe any diffent than believing in Christ, for example? And all he asks is that you accept him as your lord and saviour. Job done. You're saved according to that route. This is a lot easier than meditating for hours every day and bugging waitresses about whether there is lard in the pie crust.

Do you believe because a few hundred thousand people have been sucked into it and there are lots of books on the subject? Is that a reason to base your life on something utterly ineffable and unsubstantiated?

How do YOU know a guru is a bona fide Sat Guru? Who says he is and so what? What do they know? How do you know what they know or don't know?

How the hell does anyone determine that? By waiting around through decades of numbing simran to find out if it is even revealed then? What if there is no light at the end of the tunnel because you are already the light?

How about three more lifetimes of this only to find out the sat guru was not a sat guru? Oops, big mistake.

How do YOU know that Dayal Desh even exists and that it is incomparable (meaning real great and wonderful, I assume)?

How do YOU know that spiritual progress can only be made in a human frame? How do you know a cockroach is not fully enlightened? They seem to go about rather untroubled until someone swats them.

How do YOU know spiritual progress even exists? What is it that progresses to where?
You need to find that out.

How do YOU know there are rarified regions within?

You are crazy to buy into this stuff without some substantiation of its validity.

The masters can say this stuff because no one can prove they are full of it (liars). I just astrally made a trip to Uranus and back. You believe me don't you?

They count on desperation and gulibility of naive people to perpetuate their sham. They seek meaning and an answer to the suffering in this world. There is no end of suferers to prey on. There are always guys going bald to sell baldness cures to. Good business to be in.

All you are doing is trying to escape into a realm where there is no pain and you are saved. It is all for you. It is utterly selfish. Go feed the homeless or take an elderly shut-in person to the doctor or buy some groceries for them.

You are self-absorbed beyond belief and the very entity you are trying to save is a mere idea, a figment of imagination created by objectifying what is functioning as the life that flows through/as awareness and calling it "me". "You" are a case of mistaken identity.

Show me the 'you' that can be saved. What is its form and where does it exist? You have no form, only a passing amalgamation of ideas and memories. This is what you need to recognize. 'You' are a passing fantasy and you want another fantasy to rescue the fantasy. Ridiculous.

The transcendence of suffering and pleasure is attained not by indulging in one or the other but by experiencing the inexistence of either.

Absolute absence is also absolute presence, but the absence of presence and absence IS the inconceivable truth.

There. I saved you a lifetime of chasing your tail and sucking up to some phoney god-man.

You're welcome.

albert: "The greatest sign of a true Param Sant's Mercy is the severance (at least a marked reduction, leading to ultimate cutting of all ties) of all worldly bondages, worldly interests, worldly inclinations, worldly desires, worldly attachments and worldly ambitions."

-- well then albert, what ARE you doing HERE on this oh so "worldly" blog?? the answer is obvious... you are a disgustingly sanctimonius hypocrite.

albert: "a disciple of a bona fide Sant Sat Guru, and that blessed disciple is burning inside"

-- ohh, i don't doubt that you are "burning". but your notions of "bona fide" is no more than dog-dung.

albert: "desirous of escape from Pind and Brahmand, and delivery to the incomparable regions of Dayal Desh"

-- say what? you need to learn how to speak (write) english.

albert: "Spiritual progress can only be accomplished while in the human frame."

-- ohh how funny... funny that you act as if somehow you know what "progress" is. hah! hah! hah!

albert: It is incumbent upon all sincere seekers to find a True Sat Guru to accomplish the ultimate feat"

-- the only "feat" your ridiculous "True Sat Guru" is able to accomplish, is to trick and bleed fools like you out of your time and money.

albert: "which is the withdrawal from this unreal world"

-- sorry to hear that you feel that your "world" (and hence yourself and everyone else) is "unreal". how unfortunate for you.

albert: "by reconnecting with the centripetal sound current, leading soul infallibly to the rarified regions within, traversing all the intermediate stages of Pind and Brahmand, and thence to Sat Desh."

-- this sort of nonsensical mumbo-jumbo is meaningless and useless.

albert: "Please see www.masterpath.org"

-- fyi, that guy is a joke. actually, he's a plagerizer, a poseur, and a pompous tyrant. by supporting and linking yourself to that phony, you have shown how utterly lost you are.

Albert, I feel sorry for you. What a waste of a good life ... the only one you will ever have. Wake up and smell the roses. Sant Mat is just a fantasy!

It is indeed strange that someone with such divine powers would have to pray to the Lord for assistance to Japan, and apparently is clueless about what has happened to his disciples after the earthquake.

Again, why would the language of empathy be taken so literally...? "We pray that the "worst is over..." is a common idiom for voicing concern and hope for the future.

Surely, the perceived mythology of a consoler's religion should be forgotten at the scene of a tragedy. Ridicule is everywhere but here, it seems mean-spirited, small, "un-churchly"... Even enemies try to set aside differences at the funeral of a mutual friend. It's not about their differences but their common decency and compassion.

I was at the national satsang in the UK last weekend. Gurinder has changed from the old days. His teachings are going through a noticeable change - and so is he himself.

What I noticed is that
(1) He talks a lot about The ONE
(2) He laughs and jokes a lot
(3) He tells people not to be so serious
(4) He tells them that the master will not come at the time of death - that they have mis-understood the teachings. Just as it does not take four lifetimes.
(5) He says there are no regions - that Sach Khand does not exist - neither does Sat Purush. He says they are levels of consciousness
He says the purpose is to REALIZE that there is only the ONE - and that we are caught in maya - duality.
Having the darshan of the physical master is not even mentioned anymore. He says seva will not help you make any progress - it simply makes you humble if done correctly. There is no spiritual merit.
You will NOT be able to succeed through meditation. Meditation is just to make you give up. You can never get there through your efforts.

Now these kind of teachings have never been given before in rssb.

A Typical Follower, thanks for the interesting info. From my totally self-absorbed perspective, my first reaction to what you wrote was...

Hey, if Gurinder Singh is so big on the One, why doesn't he ask that every satsangi buy a copy of my book, "Return to the One"? (My next thought was to multiply a $5 per copy royalty by several hundred thousand English-speaking initiates and get even more self-absorbedly excited.)

Even if that doesn't happen, it's good to hear that the RSSB version of Sant Mat is becoming more Buddhist/Vedantist/Neoplatonist. As noted in a recent post, a RSSB devotee has threatened me with hellfire.

But if there's no heaven (Sach Khand) I assume there is no hell either. Really good news!

Five years ago I wrote about Sant Mat 2.0:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2006/01/sant_mat_versio.html

Looks like that is indeed coming to pass. Heck, maybe we're up to version 3.0 now.

" Meditation is just to make you give up. "
That is the most radical RS statement I've ever heard ! ( *lol* )

Like I commented on another post — what about the literature ?
They should abandon it if the teachings are being presented as above.

I've said it before, I'm gonna say it again :

I will not be surprised if RSSB is heading in an autonomous direction without a Guru at the helm. I know this sounds crazy, but Gurinder will find a way. He's very smart. He's made a ton of money being in the Guru position, he's secured his sons and future generations through his involvement with Religare and the Singh Brothers. He does not need to work or do the Guru thing for another day !

I suspect that he may announce that he's received a message from Huzur or Sat Purush telling him to renunciate his role as the head of RSSB. Maybe he'll say that he's been instructed to go to a remote land and meditate to share the Sangat's karmic burden ! Wild thoughts, but it is very possible if he's turning the RS literature on its head. I've been noticing the gradual shift in the teachings for over three years. Religare is in a royal mess. Sooner or later a choice will have to be made, things will not stay they way they are for too long.

Brian and Tara,
yes - things are changing and they're changing fast. If a satsangi (just imagine for a moment) from charan Singh's time was in deep meditation (just humour me!) for the last 35 years - isolated from the world, and if he had reached Sach Khand and shared amazing moments with Sat Purush Himself, can you imagine the culture shock if he came back to satsang? So all his 35 years were for nothing and the Sat Purush thing is just his own personal illusion.

I am sure he would get just a little upset when he realised he had wasted 35 years trying to get to a fictional Sach Khand.

It would be kind of funny really - but that might just be because I have a wierd sense of humour.

Anyway - the point is - that older gneration - from the 80's and earlier still don't understand that the teachings have been definately changed. Gurinder is currently teaching a hybrid version of sant mat - a sort of halfway station between the old teachings and Advaita / Enlightenment.

Many of the statements he now makes have never been heard of in sant mat. And he sometimes says that he is trying to confuse everyone - well - he's not doing a bad job there because most people who follow it - and listen to what he is saying - have no idea what is going on at all.

And confused people make good subjects - the just do as they're told without thinking - which might just be his strategy.

Thanks Brian.

Actually, I guarantee that he hasn't a clue what he's talking about. Disciples have given him a massive amount of power and charisma and that carries him through the biggest load of mumbo jumbo. No wonder no-one's allowed to tape it all! The confusion and contradictions sprouted by Charan were bad enough when I transcribed his tapes a while back.

What struck me a few years ago is that it would appear that Gurinder's disciples are rather proud of his lack of sense, considering Charan's disciples to have a pampered, rigid, old-fashioned approach.

Tara is on the right track.

Albert, Gurinder is not only bound to his disciples. He has by no means severed his ties with worldly wealth, and is very well and comfortably connected in Pind.

Catherine, I am not a student of Gurinder Singh Dhillon. My Master is Sri Gary Olsen. He founded MasterPath in 1987 and I was graciously drawn to Him in 1994, after 20 years of other types of spiritual practices which left me unfulfilled. I cannot pen my great fortune, nor adequately describe the efficacy of Sri Gary's discourses, seminars and Darshan. I have verified the teachings of all past True Sants of the Sant Mat tradition within myself by following Sri Gary's loving instructions. Many have asked for "proof" not realizing that all the stages, methodology, bhakti and internal attainments are absolutely secret. I cannot offer any empirical evidence of any kind to the commenters, as the achievements of a truly sincere disciple are exquisitely esoteric and ineffable, yet totally verifiable subjectively.

Albert,
Sorry to burst your bubble - but your so-called 'personal verification' is nothing of the sort. It is nothing but personal delusion. Followers of Radha Soami have numerous such experiences - but they are all mind-creations. How do you know that your mind is not creating the experiences? If you are experiencing them inside yourself - then obviously your mind is creating it all. Have you met Sat Purush yet? Or one of the lower lords of the regions. If you meet them - can you kindly convey my greetings. And while you're at it - just ask them if Sri Gary is a real master. Oh and make sure you're repeating the simran - or whatever Gary asks you to repeat when you ask the questions.

Gurus like Sri Gary are a dozen a dime. Traditionally sant mat has never been charged for - their make their money through donations - which makes enough anyway. Paul twitchell created eckankar after following Kirpal singh and decided to charge for lessons. Sri Gary has just taken the same teachings and also decided to charge. There are always people willing to pay for spiritual info - they somehow think its more valuable. It isn't - the same info is available for free. But if you prefer to pay - that's cool. SO while Sri Gary is giving out the traditonal teachings - copied from Eckankar and sant mat - sant mat meanwhile is changing the goal posts and have moved onto version 2.0
Next time to chat to Sri Gary - might be worth having a quiet word in his ear that the regions have now disappeared and been replaced by the ONENESS. After all he doesn't want anyone suing him for giving outdated info.
It is your belief that is creating your experiences - just like hypnotised people experience what is not there - they are simply told it and they believe it

Hey man, Albert, it's never too late to leave your exquisitely esoteric and ineffable, yet totally verifiable and absolutely secret internal methodology.

I personally have absorbed myself in the ever-gracious and totally refining refulgence of the exponentially and entirely mysterious elevating consciousness of the one and only magnificence of Maharaj Charan Singh.

But nothing comes close to leaving it all behind and becoming an ordinary human again, a person who is nothing special at all. And nothing comes close to getting my own discernment back. Nothing. And I am sure Albert, that all nature will help you to move through the magnificence of your present effulgent experience and discover what it is to live a life undictated to by a Gurinder or a Gary.

Albert, what's the history and the lineage of Gary Olsen? Or is he by his own admission, Divinely Inspired?... or do you say that he is? Try to find his spiritual starting point.

Step away from your blissful nest and take a clear look at your background, your needs and his; look at the other devotees and watch for the grooming that occurs with a slow hand. Take note of how he will tell you, don't worship me, but then you will find yourself being asked to concentrate on his face when you meditate. That sort of thing. Look at the questions that niggle but that you keep pushing away and that he avoids, slaps down or brushes aside.

I once looked over Sri Gary Olsen's mateial. (Why the hell does he need to call hijself "Sri" by the way).

IMO this guy has simply brazenly taken RS and Eckankar teachings and created his own gig. Con men are smooth. They do not experience the same feelings of guilt when they take other people's money. Rather, they enjoy it via some twisted mechanism in their thinking dueto genetics or poor toilet training or something like that.

They come off convincing and smooth as silk. They're very good at it.

When I looked over his stuff you could become a member for $25 a month. Now think of this. All Sri Gary Olsen Ji Maharaj Baba Holiness Param Guru Sant Supreme has to do to get an income of $25,000 per month is to con 1000 gullible people to take his bait. With a good campaign, that would not be too hard to do especially if you are glib and charasmatic. Beats flipping burgers.

Now if he's really good, who knows how much he can make. $50,000, $100,000? Even with an attrition rate that is pretty high, as long as he can get new suckers aboard he can keep the gravy train rolling.

Another thing. Why is all the methodology and internal attainment kept so absolutely secret? Control maybe? To stroke your ego that you are a member of a special cadre of blessed, lucky ones? So the cash keeps rolling in?

Catherine,

Very good passage,

"But nothing comes close to leaving it all behind and becoming an ordinary human again, a person who is nothing special at all. And nothing comes close to getting my own discernment back. Nothing. And I am sure ..., that all nature will help you to move through the magnificence of your present effulgent experience and discover......."

---you have much wisdom...

Typical Follower,

Unfortunately its difficult for most people, including RSSB satsangis, to see the philosophical progression in Gurinder Singh's satsangs, as they are not made publicly available.

A non-Indian satsangi might be able to attend three of Gurinder's satsangs per year - which is not enough to get a gist of Gurinder's philosophy.

I find it curious how one can truly feel like a 'disciple' of teacher when one does not have regular access to his instruction, either by way of satsangs or written materials.

At the very least, one would hope to hear the master's lectures reproduced at satsangs (as they do in Rajinder's satsangs).

Albert,

You say: "The greatest sign of a true Param Sant's Mercy is the severance (at least a marked reduction, leading to ultimate cutting of all ties) of all worldly bondages, worldly interests, worldly inclinations, worldly desires, worldly attachments and worldly ambitions."

Do you know Gary Olsen? I guess the operative qualifier in your assessment or acceptance of the "true sign" is the "at least a marked reduction" of "all worldly" signs.

Gary Olsen is not a Param Sant Guru. He is not the author of the teachings he sells. He is not the Emissary of God. He has no power to deliver you to some rarefied region of inner consciousness, and he is definitely not "bona fide."

MasterPath is not a propitious opportunity, unless of course, you're looking to engage and invest in a labyrinth of tommyrot.

TonyM, as you know, none of Gurinder's talks / discourses / Q & A's are recorded so that gives him the added advantage of being happily inconsistent. These are cult strategies, too bad the Sangat knows nothing about what goes on behind closed doors. Mystics don't manufacture their following like hand-cut potato chips, the enlightened one ( if there is such a thing ) is probably perched atop a glacier with a mountain hawk for company.

Thanks for your well thought out comments, which I very much appreciate. It is clear that I have "made a mistake" by posting here, also realizing that whatever has happened has happened in the way it was meant to happen. I apologize for raising anyone's hackles; I have no intent to injure any person's feelings. You have every right to your own beliefs and concepts of what is real...what is not real.

I am truly sorry and wish you all Godspeed in the fulfillment of your desires.

What is a tommyrot?

To Roger: tommyrot is informal expression for rubbish or nonsense

To Albert: Weak apology. What are you apologizing for?

Isn't your "connection" to the source of the Almighty via initiation by your "bona-fide Sat Guru" capable of "accomplishing the ultimate feat" of reciprocating with legitimate and well-thought-out questions by folks VERY familiar with the Sant Mat tradition?

You know, the very tradition of which your "master" claims to be the heir apparent.

Why do you run when confronted with questions about the spiritual legitimacy of your guru?

Why do put forth promotion of Gary Olsen as a bona-fide Param Sant Guru, and then shy away from answering a single question?

Why do you wish anyone "godspeed in the fulfillment of their desires?"

Guys, you're taking yourselves too seriously. You're taking this letter and all of sant mat too much to heart. Relax, it's really not so heavy. Let's not be too serious about this. I read that letter a few months ago, and I found it was nice and good. Of course, I didn't put it under a microscope to read between the lines and detect any inconsistencies and mistakes and....

I hope we don't assume this attitude before other things in life (non-sant mat), else we can't and we won't be smiling a lot.

I can think of at least one brighter way to read that letter.

i can't understand why people are so critical of RSSB and baba gurinder singh dhillon.as far as his personal investments are concerned,what is wrong with that.he belongs to a well to do family.he sold his lands and showroom and other property to invest further.malvinder and shivinder are the grandsons of the prvious guru ,maharaj charan singh.hence they are babaji's nephews.so he invested money with his nephews for his children.what is wrong with that. he has never claimed to be God but only guru.he is not forcing the radha soami philosophy on anyone.it is for those who choose the path.as far as religion is concerned ,he never tells anyone to change theirs.when a person takes naam he/she includes other principles to his/her existing beliefs without changing his/her religion.there are no forced donations.only discours.i am not a satsangi but i have been to the dera in beas and was highly impressed by what i saw and experienced.it is all about being a better person spiritually and otherwise.and if the philosophy does not appeal to you dont follow it.being critical of something that lakhs of people are benefiting from makes you sound like a bitter and rabid person with a heart filled with prejudice and having a very narrow view .one man's meat is another man's poison.try to live and let live.focus on improving yourself instead of filling your heart with hatred of something you dont understand fully.

harneet says : " i can't understand why people are so critical of RSSB and baba gurinder singh dhillon. "

Reply : You cannot understand because you have no knowledge of the philosophy and the tenets of the RS faith. It is also highly unlikely that you know anything about GSD, his past and the inner workings of the sect.

harneet says : " as far as his personal investments are concerned, what is wrong with that. "

Reply : Nothing, as long as the means to his wealth creation are not contradictory to the philosophy that he propagates. Plus, I don't see why a Perfect Living Master would feel the need to amass wealth in the first place.

harneet says : " he belongs to a well to do family. he sold his lands and showroom and other property to invest further. "

Reply : He came from a modest background. What do you know about his days in Spain ? And, the sale of a few acres of land in the agricultural belt of Punjab cannot buy a large shareholding in a financial services company.

harneet says : " malvinder and shivinder are the grandsons of the previous guru, maharaj charan singh. hence they are babaji's nephews. so he invested money with his nephews for his children. "

Reply : You can add another fact to that — the Dhillon's and the Singh's had never been close when Charan was the Guru. In fact, GSD was struggling with his career and Charan had sent him to Spain to work for the Balani's. This horse and pony show ( Religare ) was GSD's idea and the Singh brothers are now tired of pumping in the money. Besides, don't you think that someone as wise as a PLM would have his sons make it on their own ?

harneet says : " what is wrong with that. "

Reply : Everything — if the position of power has been a catalyst to wealth accumulation, and in this case specifically. Have you read Honest Living ?

harneet says : " he has never claimed to be God but only guru. "

Reply : You must be referring to Sant Mat 2.0. I suggest you read Sar Bachan and The Path of The Masters. You could also watch a short three-part video on YouTube posted by Osho Robbins, who is an ex-preacher for RSSB in the UK.

harneet says : " he is not forcing the radha soami philosophy on anyone. "

Reply : He doesn't need to, the RSSB management has strategies and plans in place like any other organization. China is currently big on their radar.

harneet says : " it is for those who choose the path. "

Reply : More like — it is for those who get sucked in !

harneet says : " as far as religion is concerned, he never tells anyone to change theirs. "

Reply : Yet, he does say that visits to temples, shrines, mosques, churches and gurudwaras will yield nothing, which is just another way to deter people from going to their places of worship. But of course, the RS meditation is all about visualizing GSD while chanting the über-secret mantra.

harneet says : " when a person takes naam he / she includes other principles to his / her existing beliefs without changing his / her religion."

Reply : Bollocks ! The mainstream RS believers have actually given up on their respective religions and consider GSD and his teachings as the be-all-end-all of their lives. And, how would you know anything about " naam " and the meditation practice when you're not a follower yourself ?

harneet says : " there are no forced donations. only discourses. "

Reply : I guess you missed seeing the money-boxes at the exits with those men with foot-rulers pushing the currency notes inside ! I had suggested an experiment to see whether people are likely to donate before Satsang.

harneet says : " i am not a satsangi but i have been to the dera in beas and was highly impressed by what i saw and experienced. "

Reply : Cleanliness, order and discipline is always impressive. For a visitor, the Dera it is quite a refreshing break from everyday places of worship. However, what you fail to see is the programmed, regimented and autocratic rule in play.

harneet says : " it is all about being a better person spiritually and otherwise. "

Reply : Really ? How can you say that ? I've yet to see bigger egoists and crooks than the RS upper crust — spiritually and otherwise.

harneet says : " and if the philosophy does not appeal to you don't follow it. being critical of something that lakhs of people are benefiting from makes you sound like a bitter and rabid person with a heart filled with prejudice and having a very narrow view. "

Reply : Holy cow, you're so judgmental yourself ! What do you know about the ex-sats on this forum to pass a remark like that ? You're not even a follower ( in your own words ) so how can you comment on someone else's experience with RS Sant Mat ? Why don't you get initiated, put in the prescribed hours of meditation and then come back after a year and post your findings ?

harneet says : " one man's meat is another's poison. try to live and let live. "

Reply : Puh-lease, spare me that one !

harneet says : " focus on improving yourself instead of filling your heart with hatred of something you dont understand fully. "

Reply : So, you're not a follower, yet you have " fully understood " the RS faith ? I think you've never read one Sant Mat related book and are basing your opinions on some hear-say and a visit to the Dera. IMO, it is about time you " focus on improving " your skewed perspective by actually walking the talk. You remind me of a brainwashed gimlet who's trying to defend something without actually knowing what is it that he is defending.

harneet, I've questioned your inexperience with the RS sect on the other thread you posted on. IMO, someone's given you the typical 101 of RS Beas.

As an objective observer reading these comments being amazed at the vitriol expressed here, there are so many questions. I don’t want to sound preachy but it truly saddens me and I must ask why this self-righteous indignation, this bitter anger? Look inside, do your own research, look at your patterns. Is it envy, resentment? Are you wannabe gurus? What part of you is projecting all this dark and vicious energy onto this guru?

Why not find your own way with kindness towards others allowing them to follow their own individual paths. We are all GIHF. Maybe some have realized this and then become teachers. A guru is simply a teacher who we can learn from and then move on and find our own self-realization, become self empowered and enlightened.

I hope this is what life is all about, not clinging to the material world but understanding the oneness of all life, a collective consciousness, a oneness of being. Are we going to realize this through going down this path of bitter criticism?

Change is upon us now and we can grow with an ever-expanding conscious evolvement. We cannot help others if indeed they are being misled, except by growing within our own loving kindness.

Sants on d earth are nt to show miracle if u think Christianity is bttr then y dnt u guys follow it's rule u guys eat non veg which is against Humanity

Forgive them for they know not what they do (say) <3

From a Satsangi

Do you live on benefits, you have so much of time in hand to criticise the letter word by word. You are not doing any favour to anyone but wasting your own time. I have unfortunately read some of your other articles, why you try to force your perception on others? How do you consider yourself intelligent enough to judge others?

@lalit Joshi

Are you kidding? Who is forcing their opinions on anyone here? Everyone is simply pointing out things that are pretty obvious and others can read them. How is this 'forcing your perception'?

What about you? Do YOU consider yourself intelligent enough to comment on those who write here?

and what does 'wasting your time' mean? Is sitting 2.5 hours a day repeating five holy names not a 'waste of time'?

It's all about how you choose to see it.

And what has living on benefits got to do with anything?

Step outside the RSSB world and you will see you have been living in a bubble.


I made a note of this comment by "A Typical Follower" posted above on 1/5/2011. Its taken me a long time to distance myself from Sant Mat but what really struck home when I first read the comment is Gurinder supposedly saying: "the master will not come at the time of death; it does not take four lifetimes; there are no regions, that Sach Khand does not exist, neither does Sat Purush - they are levels of consciousness. The purpose is to realize that there is only the ONE. Seva will not help you make any progress; there is no spiritual merit; you will not be able to succeed through meditation... ".

Wondering if anyone else has heard Gurinder say anything more about the different approach in the Sant Mat teachings.

Jen, no, I havr never heard him say anything like that. He says that who do meditation regularly, only those would be greeted by master at the end. And all masters said that seva will not help you make any progress, it is just to create environment.

Sagar -- I think I remember him saying things like that. His comments and responses are not recorded in print or audio, so they are just recollections that different people have. My sense is that there is a pulling away from viewing things as "written in stone", as for example: "it says in Spiritual Discourses Vol. 2 that ____________________(fill in the blank). Perhaps this different approach is to discourage precepts/doctrine over experiencing a slowly expanding awareness? I dunno though, just a thought.

JE
It's all correct what he says

It corresponds with Solopism c q Solipsisme
where God is Jen but Jen has amnesia about it according to a set of rules
Jen has accepted long ago to make experiences of the Spirit possible

The ancient explaining was very good a century ago in the form of fairy tales

Jen makes her existence each nano second renewed (quantum strings)
you could say on/off : a trillion times per second
The on ( what you experience + yr memes) time is & little nano fraction only
but it seems continues like a TV frequency of 100 Herz

Succeeded Meditation lets you see that - all kinds of meditations do that provided they can stop thoughts while very awake

The beauty of RSSB meditation is that it uses Love for the Sound,
Love for HIM - if you dive in the Sound first : there is no Guru to see
you may even feel he stares to you in admiration of what The Anahabad Sound Shabd is doing with You
Imaging Gurinder trying explaining such a thing to the satsangis

All our cases are so very different: Another Satsangi will literally become
those 5 magical mysterious all potent words, also The Name of God

He is so right to not create new fairy tales
The reality is much more sweet and beautiful even

And the Japan comment is so correct
One minute of real meditation ( NO THOUGHTS - TRY IT ) with Love does more for that empire
and the pacific ocean than being (often) a stay in the way, without Geiger, without protection etc

BTW the japanese mafia was the first on place with real help
( Herald Tribune, the week after )


The Gracious humour of Solopism is that there is nobodyto complain becaus JEN was always the doer
There is nobody else than JEN - The reason you develeoped this sytem
and Zillion to the power of xillio other systems
WOW

777

Hi 777, thanks for the reply.

I get what you are saying. I like George Kavassilas youtubes. He talks about sovereignty and that we are multidimensional beings. How each of us is a ruler of our own universe and what we are experiencing now, as a fractal of who we really are, is merely a projection of our true self into this 'matrix like' universe. We are powerful beings in our own right.

So why should we follow a Sant Mat guru who (in the past) told us that we would be going to another god's (Sat Purush) realm called Sach Khand. I think Gurinder knows a lot of the older satsangis are waking up to the original story we were told and now He is buying into the "We Are One" new age type language.

I once felt in Love and it still increases
That's ALL

I cannot judge about following this rssb super_path without that Love
See my (kind of) introduction comments here
I did nothing


777

Thats okay 777, I'm happy for you that you feel this love and have this attraction to these masters. Its wonderful that you have many spiritual experiences, it must be very uplifting. I've never been any good at meditating. As Brian points out for those who have suffered in the earthquake it must be very difficult for them to sit quietly and meditate under such circumstances.

Also, I seem to be pulled in a different direction, I don't feel love for the path or the masters. I actually think I am connected to a different family of beings who I have had contact with. I'm wondering that when I finally leave this body I may be united with them or it would be even more wonderful to actually merge with my sovereign being self. Its all a magical and mysterious journey we are on. Yes, I enjoy magical thinking :)

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