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February 20, 2011

Comments

Hey Brian - ask yourself why you had the colonoscopy. Ultimately, it would be because you wish to avoid a potentially deadly and unspeakably uncomfortable condition known as colon cancer. My own primary care physician, who is a board certified gastroenterologist, told me that I should have a colonoscopy because "believe me, you do not want colon cancer." To which I replied "neither does any one who actually has colon cancer."

Anesthesia is rock-solid, irrefutable proof that there is no separate entity of an extra-physical nature that inhabits a human organism. When you die (and you will, I can assure you) it will be EXACTLY the way it "was" before the universe existed. Which is the same as it was while you were on the table with a long tube up your hoo-hah.

My comfort lies in the recognition that physical reality, which is the only reality, is of absolutely no consequence, because there is no separate being for it to be consequential to.

I did not and will not have a colonoscopy. It seems possible that, if I do get colon cancer, there is a bridge close by with a deck 200 feet above mean high water, where I will practice my diving techniques. Lots of other people do, why not me?

"...physical reality, which is the only reality, is of absolutely no consequence."

That's so cool, Wille R.!

Then, you probably don't care whether tens of thousands of innocent people are slaughtered in the mid east (often with western-supplied weapons and munitions), global warming drowns the planet or Sara Palin is elected president!

And so the truth shall set ye free!

Yip, anaesthesia is fascinating, but also alot of shit can happen, literally as well as figuratively, them colonoscopies am not too fond of.

Think insofar as the medical profession goes, surgery was always considered highest risk, but anaesthesia not so far behind in the old days, but the techniques have got alot better, think they have a gradated scale of consciousness - its pretty interesting and amazing what can be done, but still best to avoid unless no alternative, human bodies are all unique and as soon as other start messing about with millions of years of evolution, problems imo.

Brian wrote:

There's something profound and important here, but it's difficult to put a philosophical finger on it..."

Yes, agree 100%, it is very frustrating, disentangling seems impossible...like trying peel off a shadow.

I hope you keep on it. And here is scientific study of interest ("The Incidence of Awareness During Anesthesia "

http://chua2.fiu.edu/Nursing/anesthesiology/COURSES/Semester%205/NGR%206097%20STUDY%20GUIDES/IntraOp%20Awareness.pdf

yip surely nothing can seem as profound as someone with their finger up one's bum - good god almighty, willie R might be right in opting for the bridge.

I'm a nurse and use Versed during our exams.Its a potent amnesiac.Pts will appear semi conscious to conscious... philosophies with me as well and not remember our exchange.They may even repeat the same question or tell the same joke a few times.They may be in full command of there cognitive faculty I can't tell.So we refrain from saying "what that?" and "oops!" during exams.Pts have even sang to me.. very young women may cry without cause(versed blues)or very young dudes might giggle like a pot head

Did they certify that your head wasn't up there Brian ? Wives always ask us afterwards

Dogribb, no. But at least for one day, neither my wife nor anyone else could tell me, "You're full of shit." Now, though, things are back to normal.

Blogger Brian - I must confess to being concerned solely with my own comfort, no matter what thoughts might occupy my brain at any particular moment.
How is it possible to care about anything except in relation to how it might affect your physical well-being? There is no question that helping others fosters one's own well-being, and so "caring" is actually a very selfish gesture.
Apparently, merely being alive is very uncomfortable for many humans. To a great extent, that has always been true of me. It will be a great, great disappointment if I find some kind of "self" existing beyond the inevitable "death" of the body that is typing this response.

Propofol is something that I had
4 operations on. I actually wanted
the experience again, even though
2 were back surgeries. The worst possible
surgery. Better to be dead.

But, I want to comment on Brain Greene's
book also.

When young, I took something called
orange sunshine. The most powerful
LSD ever developed by Sandoz.

I got hooked. I had to drop out
of USC for awhile in college.

Anyone whom has ever taken orange
sunshine can tell you there is
absolutely positively other dimensions
we are unaware of.

I took every kind of exotic drug in
the 70's as everyone else was.

But, orange sunshine LSD from Sandoz
Phama was beyond comprehension. It was not
ordinary LSD, but something astonishing.

You were literally in another dimension
that there is no way to explain. It was
indeed instant enlightenment.

But, the sights and sounds and body feeling
were remarkable.

This LSD was so powerful that the next day
the skin peeled off your face and arms.
Not from any additive in the LSD.

Nietzsche believed we live the same life over
and over. Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, a group I
once belonged to, believe we repeat the same
life, but as we become more conscious, each
life changes a little.

When people tell me about their great
inner experiences I have to laugh. Why do
people always think you havn't been there ?
Or, experienced things these Gurus couldn't
imagine.

Radhasoami people believe they are highest.
But, it was pranahuti yoga that produced
my best experiences.

Yes, there are planes above Radhasoami Pad.
And, much faster ways to get there.

Although I am an atheist. I do believe
there is another reality.

Basically, because I have already experienced
it.

But, it cannot be communicated in a book
and kundalini will not take one there.

Far better, a million times better,
then the so called inner planes.

Mike:

Humans are meaning makers who love to measure and compare. Comparisons are relevant, but are draped on our 5 senses-- when it comes to it. Perhaps we are in the ride of some endless gym, offering infinite constructions, and possibilities and **experiences**. We, therein are woven in on something quite incomprehensible. Humans may be but a lonely boat paddling around inside some BIG, well what ____________??? But it only seems huge because we are choiceless but to measure all against ourselves, that is, our bodies. So Radhasoami Pad is wonderful, but you know something MORE HUGE -erly wonderful...well all in all it seems kinda weird to compare dreams. Compare Babe Ruth to Ty Cobb, well OK.

p.s. (I always enjoy your comments)

Hi Jon Weiss,

I spent my life in search of perfect
masters and perfect methods.

Every inner experience in the book.

But, you are absolutely correct.

Experience is experience.

Even orange sunshine, which immediately
produces enlightenemnt, that enlightenemnt
does not last when the drug wears off.

Kinda like stilling your mind artifically
with the sound current.

All are temporary.

Since I had experienced enlightenment so
early in life, my mission was to make
it permenant. No drugs, no pacifiers.

I felt that enlightenment should be
there even in ordinary circumstances.

That was my goal.

But, the problem upon reaching that goal
was that it happened by accident.

All of a sudden.

The realization of no self completely
shatters the mind.

The self can no longer act.

Action occurs without a personalized
self.

But, it is not like the Gurus tell you
at all. It is not a life of denial at all.

It is life without a self.

The old self is seen as a funny idea
you once had.

faquir Chand delt with the question,
"Who am I", at the end of his journey.

But, one can deal with the question
right at the very beginning.

All yoga and religion take one away from
the state of no self.

It's like the devil created them,
if there is a devil.

No experience can get one "there",
only a stark realization of no self.

That's the end of the game.

The only end.

The whole concept of anesthetic intrigues me. I had a colonoscopy today and was administered Propofol. It was an odd experience. I was fully conscious one second and then "out" the next. The next thing I remember is waking up about 20 minutes later. I knew that some time had passed so it wasn't as if I still expected the doctor to perform the procedure, i.e. I knew the procedure was done. I didn't dream or have any thoughts or brain activity that I can recall. I suppose that I could have been screaming my head off during the procedure (although I doubt it) but if I don't remember it, then why does it matter? Anesthesia is a very odd (but fascinating) science.

I had prophol for two colonoscopies. When they administered the drug I felt a tingling between the brows and then I was out just like they flipped a switch. I woke up with little hangover and no memory of the procedures or being in discomfort or pain.

The second time I anticipated the tingling sensation and resolved to see if I could prolong the waking state when I felt it. No way. The switch was flipped again.

Those of you who are putting off a colonoscopy because of fear of pain, don't. The procedure is painless unless you call it pain to have an IV inserted, and it could save your life and prevent a miserable death. Then all you have to think about are all the other things that can kill you, but maybe you'll be lucky and get one that is short and merciful.

I have had anesthesia eight or nine times in my life. I always find it interesting to study the sensations as the drug(s) begin to work. Sometimes it is weird and/or slightly uncomfortable. I usually try to hang onto consciousness just to see if I can. It seems as if I am succeeding, but then the switch is flipped, as usual, and I'm out.

Propophol is great, but other types of anesthesia can leave you feeling like crap for awile afterwards especially after long procedures.

When 18 I had wisdom teeth removed. The Dr. administered the anesthesia drug while asking me to count backwards from 100. I remember getting to about 92 and asking the Dr. when I was going to go to sleep. He said, "Oh, we're all finished.", and showed me the pieces of teeth in a container.
I was able to eat steak that night. Good Dr.

Anesthesia is indeed odd and facinating.

Interesting read for someone (myself) who just had his a) first colonoscopy and b) experience with propofol. I entertained thoughts going in to it that "geez, I might not be able to 'go under', or "what if they do it and I'm still aware". Not a chance! I did feel the numbing of my forehead right before I went down and the kind nurse told me to think of good thoughts. My last thought was "the beach" and by gosh it worked. Outside of the day-before prep, the procedure was pretty breezy. However, I seemed to have a "hang-over", or at least it seemed that way,for 2 days. Maybe it was because I had a slight cold going in to the procedure and had been taking an antihistamine, but my wife swears that I stayed high for 2 days (not that I minded). I am saddened to read Wille R's above comments about not having a colonoscopy. My dear mother suffered a miserable death with colon cancer and having colon cancer, or even entertaining thoughts of having it, is absolutely nothing to be flippant about. I can assure you that my mother was too sick to jump off a bridge, let alone get herself to one. From the day she suffered her first cramps to the diagnosis (it had spread to her liver) to the cancer ward, it was a straight shot. Sad thoughts aside, I thought this blog was spot-on and hopefully will encourage people to do the deed, so to speak.

Brian, how is your health? I'm against Doctors, i had acid reflux last year, they put me on PPIS, the drugs didn't help, I was worried about the long term health implications.
I then utilised herbs, the herbs have helped eradicate the reflux. You should look into herbs Brian.
IMO, doctors treat the symptoms but not the actual cause.

G. my health is good. I take lots of supplements, including some herbs. But generally my wife and I don't take anything that doesn't have some scientific evidence showing it is effective.

Yes, often doctors treat symptoms rather than causes. But sometimes that makes sense. If you have a broken leg, you don't want the cause treated (like poor skiing ability); you want the leg treated.

Prevention is better than cure, but often all we need or want is the cure. Either because some things can't be prevented, or the cause of a thing is irrelevant to treating it.

My wife has had acid reflux problems. Like you, she doesn't believe in medications for it. There's something called the "rebound effect" that can make acid reflux worse after you stop taking the drugs. Her acid reflux has improved after making some dietary changes, and just through a natural healing process, I guess.

Brian, I don't look at scientific evidence, in 2003, researchers said that red wine is good for you, in 2012 they said that it isn't good.

The same can be said about Ginkgo Biloba and Omega 3, scientists said they were good 10 years ago but now they say that Ginkgo and Omega can't do much.

I go by experience, our forefathers were very wise, they utilized various herbs which eradicated illnesses back in their day.
Stuff like acupressure is very useful, and having cold showers, this strengthens the immune system.

I;m old school, i go for tried and tested (herbs), you see, hemp oil doesn't have any scientific evidence to suggest that it can cure cancer, but people have used it and cured cancer.

I have to say, you are in good shape, you're a vegetarian and a senior citizen, i don;t see many people in shape that are vegetarian and are over 50.

Keep it up Brian, live long my friend!

Eat and be merry!

I had an endoscopy and colonscopy done 2 days ago using propofol. They were going to do the procedures with a mild anesthetic but I told them about my first endoscopy experience- I woke up and violently tried to pull the endoscopy tube out. They told me propofol will be used this time through an anesthetic doctor.

I didn't feel it being administered, but I started coughing with a feeling of something wanting to come out of my esophogus and through my mouth lol. I told the anesthetic doc this (I was still able to talk) but then I rested my head back on the pillow and felt sleep come

I was told I went for the tube again, but don't remember that. What I do remember is waking up looking at the doc when the tube was fully inserted. He uttered a few words to me, and my brain registered that I trusted him so I went back to sleep.

During the colonscopy, the nurse later told me I was moaning in pain (don't remember that) so they gave me more and the moaning stopped. So to answer your question- yes we might actually feel pain but the propofol sucks us I to a sleep where the pain receptor part of the brain isn't conscious.

Woke up again this time I looked at the doc behind me, but his hands were empty so the procedure was done. Me looking back makes me believe that my brain knew what was going on and didn't like it one bit. Overall it was a good experience, no pain just waking every now and then.

My main concern now: I am sucked into deep depression. I dont know if i feel this way because im wanting to do the procedure again because of this anesthetic, or because my results were normal and they couldnt figure out whats wrong with me. Whatever the source, this is disturbing me very much. I'm having crying episodes 2 days later still and want to do nothing but sleep to pass time or figure this out. I was never an addict, but I am the type that over question things and a few docs told me I have anxiety. So does anxiety and propofol don't mix? Something in my brain makeup? Or am I still hung over from this procedure. I want to feel emotionally stable again.

We'd get along.

Nice post. Found it after my propofol colonoscopy dream. 1.) my senses and memory have tricked me so many times I no longer trust them; I am done with objectivism; if there is truth out there, It's unknowable; "reality" to me is just the prevailing shared delusion. 2.) as for the question of self that's separate from the body, I propose this analogy: the body is a house I am locked inside; under anesthesia or during sleep, the lights and sound in the house go off, so my experience is minimal, and barely memorable; when the body dies, the house falls away, I can find out what, if anything is outside.

"Anesthesia is rock-solid, irrefutable proof that there is no separate entity of an extra-physical nature that inhabits a human organism."

No, it just means that if there is one, it is causally connected to the physical. I mean, it would be a bit redundant to have a non physical mind that starts up and shuts down in sync with brain activity, but that isn't quite rock solid irrefutable proof.

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