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December 10, 2010

Comments

The Cheese List was bad enough. Now this!

Most of the religious places and Guru Deras in India have become money laundering centers. It is really sad. I do not know what has happened in Beas. Let us hope it has not harmed Indian economy.

well, i told you all that the apocalypse (the unveiling) is now underway.

just like prince charles and camilla, the rssb cult leader & his family's time will be coming soon. the groveling peons will start shouting "off with their heads" to them as well.

this is what i am talking about (grin):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X52wHCac2g


I met another one of Gurinder's old friends, a gentleman who now lives in Scotland. He told me that he was shocked when he learnt of his Guru-friends' recent wealth ! He also added that Moga ( as Gurinder is fondly called by his pre-guru-days friends' circle ) is living on the edge with his growing tide of greed and that land-grabbing has now become a common RSSB practice.

Believers, your " Master " is a fraud — that's as simple as it is.

Much exploitation is possible in the name of " spirituality " and for the sake of the millions of followers who bow to his pretentious backside, I wish that this cult comes crashing down and Gurinder has no where to hide.

This is the newspaper reference for people whom may read this in the coming years

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sebi-nod-for-radha-soami-satsang-beas/722630/

fe Bureau
Tags : Religare Enterprises open offer, Logos Holding Company
open offer, Gurinder Singh Dhillon family, Radha Soami Satsang Beas, shareholders of Religare Enterprises, SEBI

Posted: Fri Dec 10 2010, 00:02 hrs

'Irresponsible' Rakta charitraechoLearning Point Illumina at MDI

The capital market regulator has granted exemption to Logos Holding Company from making
an open offer to the shareholders of Religare Enterprises for its acquisition of 19.53%
stake in the company. Logos Holding is an investment arm of the Gurinder Singh Dhillon family.

Gurinder Singh is the current head of one of India's largest religious sect – Radha Soami
Satsang Beas. At Thursday's closing price of Rs 460.95, the value of Logos Holding's stake
is about Rs 1,163 crore. The Dhillons had acquired the shares at just over Rs 13 crore in 2006.

While seeking exemption from making an open offer, the Dhillons had said that they proposed
to transfer their stake to Logos Holding to consolidate their individual shareholdings scattered
across listed and unlisted companies.

The promoters of REL, Malvinder and Shivinder Singh and their investment vehicles hold 64.74%
of the equity in the company, while financial institutions hold 3.83% in the company. The Singhs
are followers of Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Including the Dhillon stake, the non-institutional
holding in the company is 31.43%. The Sebi order says Logos should complete the proposed acquisition
within 30 days from the date of passing of the order and thereafter file a report on the same within 15 days.

Note to Brian,
God bless you. I don't believe in God,
but just the same God bless you.

You are helping thousands of children born and unborn. Poor helpless people whom would never have known these things if not for you.

It will be a shame if there is not a heaven for you to go too.

Best wishes

Yo! I really don't understand why does nobody writes to Baba Ji and ask him all this stuff and post his reply here. Why? Why can't we be open yet? Why are there taboos? If i was worried i'd stoond up and asked him but am not. As maybe Tao would said to me that i am a brainwashed dogmatic blind follower of some guru than, why can't i live with that, and still be friend with Tao.Why? You know,... i can. Cause why? Cause i am fighting with myself.As Charan sometimes said that critics are our best friends why do we feel than hurt so quickly? I think because of our own limits in conciousness and human approach. I would like to say that whether i am dogmatic brainwashed idiot or critical Tao, i don't wan't that to divide the two of us.Get me?

If i don't like your sweater, i do not need to hate you! Peace into your 3rd eyes!!!

Remember this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtBs6j7QgU

Mike, it will indeed be a shame if I don't go to some sort of heaven. If I die and find myself absolutely non-existent, I'll be pissed!!

No, wait... if I don't exist, I won't be pissed. Or, anything else.

Damn -- I hate to waste some good old righteous indignation. Guess I'll have to engage in it now, rather than later.

Not only does he clame the guinest book of records as the master of all masters he seems to want other achievements tooon his name :)

jon weiss,

yeah, you got it. and here's some more about those mofos:

http://www.rense.com/general91/brtd.htm


mungos,

"why does nobody writes to Baba Ji and ask him all this stuff and post his reply here. Why?"

-- don't you know? because he would never answer. he avoids all such questions. so there is no point asking him to be truthful. thats why its worse than stupid to believe and trust in these kind of deceivers, frauds and liars. rssb is a religious scam.

"Why can't we be open yet?"

-- we are not the ones who are not open. it is he who is not open. he hides behind his position. he is a false guru. deceiptful and corrupt.

"Why are there taboos? If i was worried i'd stoond up and asked him but am not."

-- the taboos are created by the rssb. we have no taboos here. and you should be worried about following a false guru. you are wasting your precious life.

"why can't i live with that, and still be friend with Tao.Why?"

-- nothing is stoppping you from being my friend. i have nothing against you.

"Tao, i don't want that to divide the two of us."

-- there is no divide, except maybe in your own mind. because i am everyone's well wisher. i have no enmity at all towards you. but if you follow g.s. and the rssb cult, then i think you are very foolish. just chant the Hare Krsna mahamantra, and you will gradually become free of the myth and trap of the rssb cult.


I don't follow the cult i follow the teachings.And that is why i wanted to tell you, even if people follow the cult and they are comfort at that so why bother them. And as far as i know Gurinder is not avoiding this kind of questions. And all i can say that i never felt like i am deceived.On the other hand critics help me to learn more so i look upon you the same as my Guru. Peace at your precious heart!

maybe he is making all this cash to give back to the community, but shame if the poor fella wants a porshe, why not?

you only live once.

You say he does no harm but he does keep people away from seeking real help. He completely stops spiritual growth in a lot of people to the point of regression. He isolates people from their cultural and familie ties. He steels from the ones that should have received their inherritance and he spents it on luxary instead of helping the needed. A big hell is preserved for these guru's and I doubt if his real self will be as forgiving as his ego is because he denies his responsibility and tries to shift his guild to his guru. But that my friends, won't work because we are all responsible for our own actions and no guru can take that away.
If he would only take a minute to consider what he is doing with his own mind instead of hiding behind his facade of apointed guru. Than perhaps he would turn around in shame.
(Nietzsche with a little to much red wine :)

Do not beat your self up tomorrow.Peace

Thanks for the peace! I guess.

I just randomly found your blog through the Everything TypePad blog and started reading. I saw the title of this post and recognised the organisation's name as the same one which my mother has belonged to for decades, and the one that held the meetings which she brought my brother to every week ever since we were little kids. When I got older, I tried to reject religion and spirituality, it created tension between her and I. I was never interested in joining Radha Soami or interested in Sant Mat. She thought that if we had been raised with this, it was more likely we would join this Science of the Soul stuff.

Anyway, this is really interesting reading, and I'll be reading as much of your related posts as I can. I honestly was never interested enough in Radha Soami to care (or look into) where their money came from, what Charan Singh (I didn't care that he died, but my mother really mourned his death, as he initiated her) or Gurinder Singh did outside of Satsang, etc. This has been pretty eye-opening, so thanks.

" Logos Holding is an investment arm of the Gurinder Singh Dhillon family."

Note this is personal family money. His brothers are mentioned in the newspaper
articles and this is also personal money.

Where did they get all this money ?????

Gurinder is effectively the Chairman of the Board for Radhasoami Beas non profit corporation.

You can pay yourself incredible amounts of money from non profit orginazations both as salary and incentives.

Remember Bob Dole's wife was the president
of the Red Cross and paid herself $250,000
a year salary.

Christain television preachers are all multi millionaires legally.

God is big business. And, we here all know
religion is nothing more than a business.

Whomever can persuade you the best they can save your soul in an afterlife, gets your money.

If there was no money, would there be any preachers ?

$250,000,000 Think about this number.

Never forget it.

And, thank God you and your family are out
of a horrible cult.

You have dabbled in the occult my friends.

The great magician Houdini did not become famous for magic. He spent the last years
of his life going around the world giving
talks to packed audiences.

He warned people to beware.

You have come out of a deep hypnotic trance.

You are the lucky ones.

You may never know how lucky you are.

My friends, you are on the cutting edge
of this universe. You are here and now.

If you want to give back to society you
can do so by speaking out here.

You can make a difference to the children
of this world.

I know there are very bashful people here
whom do not post.

I would invite those people to post here
and sacrifice themselves for the good of
humanity.

Can you live with yourself if you say nothing ?

While I was typing the secret words into google I found an interesting document that describes what a guru according to Kabir should be like. Because it addresses exactly the problem of RSSB, how do you recognize a guru. By the way it is interesting because it also mentions jot niranjan onkar rarankar sohang satnam (did I remember right). These are the secret words that one learns in initiation. They pop up everywhere in google :)

http://www.sahib-bandgi.org/pdf/sadguru_bhakti.pdf

page 46 first feature:
'All those who wrapped the sheet of knowledge (in the form of human body) made it unclean by indulging in lustful activities. But it is only Kabir Sahib who maintained its purity & dignity.'

first: no mariage (oops one failure for Gurinder)

second: no family because:

'If he has special attachment with his family members, he will utilise the money recieved from his disciples for their welfare rather than for the welfare of people.'

(oops second failure)

third: self dependent (yes one good!)

fourth: 'Fourth feature: The fourth feature is that a guru should not be greedy. He should have no love for the money which the disciples have.'
(damn third failure)

fifth: truthfull (well...)

sixth: knowledge of al religious scripture (okay give him that one)

seventh: union with God meaning not a lower plane. (no don't think we can give this one away)

Hmmm two out of seven...and this is all according to the great Kabir! No joking here! Who in his right mind can still follow Gurinder?

Mike - Good comment... :)

Brinstar - Good idea to read the related posts, they may end up giving you a picture of what you ( thankfully ) missed out on... ;)

I'd like to add a somewhat related anecdote from my conversation with Gurinder in April 2009 -

Me : < hands folded, head bowed > " Babaji, you're simply great ! "

Gurinder : " You see, I had no idea that I'd be where I am today, it was all HIS plan. When I was in Spain, I was a nobody. Today, whatever I have is all HIS grace, it is all HIS doing, I'm just playing the role that was given to me. "

Hmmm... Has Gurinder been given the role to make USD 254 million as the God In Human Form who warns his following of the evils of greed and attachment ? Doesn't seem like something God would want his avatar to do.

Who is the true ascetic? Sukhdev or King Janak?
My only evidence of real teacher is that i gain the knowledge of what he teaches. I cannot be onguard 24/7 for any other person of what he is saying or doing. But can be onguard on how i am changing by applying his teachings.
And dear Tara GS is my teacher and i think that, 'Tara you are simply great' Peace

Does anyone know who this Sat Guru is ? He is using the name
of my copyrighted book, Radhasoami Beas Secret History. He is talking about Kirpal,
Sawan, Salig Ram, Swami ji, etc.

Here is his first lecture of 4

http://www.spiritualtube.com/spiritualvideos?video=HhiYZSxhUow=&title=Radhasoami_Beas_Secret_History-1/4


Here is his website

http://www.jagatgururampalji.org

According to

http://www.sebi.gov.in/cmorder/ReligareEnterprises.pdf

Gurinder Singh only owns 0.05% of Logos Holding Company which hardly makes him $254 million.

JoRo, did you read the entire SEBI ruling/filing that you provided a link to? On page 8 it says:

"The members of the Dhillon family are holding 100% equity in the acquirer. Instead of holding shares in their individual capacity, the said persons have now thought fit in holding them in a corporate entity, wholly owned, managed and controlled by them. It is also to be borne in mind that the proposed transferors have disclosed, in their disclosures, that they are acting in concert. Therefore, even if they do not transfer shares to the acquirer, they would continue to exercise their rights in the target company as a group and act in tandem with each other."

So it's one for all, and all for one -- when it comes to the Dhillon family holdings in Religare. The family members have combined their individual ownerships of shares into a family trust. So Gurinder Singh does indeed own and control $250 million now, whereas before he only had the relatively small holding that you mentioned.

Page 1 of the filing further explains the purpose of Logos:

"According to the aforesaid application, the acquirer is a closely held company belonging to the “Dhillon family” consisting of Mr. Gurinder Singh Dhillon, Mrs. Shabnam Dhillon, M/s. Gurinder Singh Dhillon (HUF), Mr. Gurpreet Singh Dhillon, Mrs. Nayantara Dhillon and Mr. Gurkirat Singh Dhillon and was formed with a view to organize and consolidate the holdings of the individual members of the Dhillon family scattered in various listed and unlisted companies into one company."

So this link entirely supports the main message of this post. Gurinder Singh has gotten very wealthy through his Religare dealings after becoming the RSSB guru.

That was a brilliant response Brian.

By the way ... are you available to do my
taxes this year ?

Yo guys i will be off the net now i will not post here anymore cause don't have so much time.I found out that you are all very noble souls and thank you for your knowledge.And maybe we meet sometimes in the future 'in live'
so we can say a word or hug. And please forgive me for my shorcomings, i am learning every minute of my life to become a better human and deciple. So TAO, TARA, BRIAN, DAVE L.,MIKE, ROBERT,...and everybody else have a real nice life!!!

Hi Gurinder,

In your persuit of wealth at any cost;
and since you above all people know there
is no soul, I want to tell you the history
of the modern financial world, so
you may emulate the great controllers of
this world.

The Rothschilds, private bankers of
the USA Federal Reserve, have 500 trillion
dollars. They have controled the Western
world and gold since the days of Napoleon.

From Russia, to Great Britain, to the USA.

They in fact control the world right now.

Not even John F. Kennedy could stop them.

If you want to piss with the big dogs, its time
you learned whom the Top Dog is.

This is more Secret History for you. It's shocking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWFhfoAvkmc&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLIz27GqWs&feature=related

Comon Mike. You are rigjt in your comment on RSBS but your statement that there is no soul is just as deluded. so sry to point that out.

I am sorry that whoever is commenting really does not know what they are talking about. I was initiated by Charan Singh in the 60's and myself have had my share of doubts and criticism. I have been helped in many ways on a spiritual level through experience by Charan Singh and Gurinder Singh. These two Masters have great spiritual powers and have helped me through experience and are with me at all times which they have made clear through experience which is the only way one can really know anything. Not through mental analysis, which leads no where as I have tried that route. You are just missing great truths because you are trying to understand with your mental ability. When I stopped trying to figure everything out and realized mind can never understand, more became clear to me. This is a great truth and no one can convince me anymore of anything because experience speaks for itself. And I am sorry that David Lane had not enough experience to understand that there is more here than what meets the eye or that can be understood on a intellectual level. You may not believe me, but I was reading your posts and myself read some untruths as well as alot of lack of understanding. Experience only speaks volumes.

Sharan, I'm curious...

Please share some of what you have learned from Charan Singh, who has been dead for twenty years, but who you say is with you at all times.

What does he communicate to you? How do you know the presence you feel is actually Charan Singh, and not your own mind? What have you learned from the "inner guru" that couldn't be known otherwise? Please be as detailed as possible.

You ended with "Experience only speaks volumes." So you must have a lot to say, given all the experiences you've had with Charan Singh and Gurinder Singh.

If sharing all that in a comment is too difficult, you can email me your experiences, and I'll share them in a blog post. Feel free to be as wordy as you like, and again, as detailed as possible. Many people, I'm sure, are eager to know what Charan Singh is saying to you so many years after his death.

Sharan,

I think you need to read my esoteric interpretation about the status quo of RSSB ...I will be suprised if you take it seriously. Faqir Chand probably holds the key to all this.

http://thoughtsandvisions-searle88.blogspot.com/2010/09/religare-gurinder-and-beas-satsang-part.html

Robert Searle:

I read a bit of your blog. You wrote:

"Whether Gurinder is perfect, or not probably does not matter as the following extract reveals, and is believed to have been said by Sawan Singh.."


and then you go on to quote that.

IMO, there are many reasons why it remains problematical.

Sharan:

What makes you assume that Dr. Lane has not had any "mystical" meditational experiences and is depending only on his intellect?

Our question seems to be if the inner Gurinder has anything to do with the outer one :)


I think Sharan will not answer any of the questioners as "we would not understand." A form of esoteric snobbery if you will.

Yes, the first two key claims to my blog article on Gurinder are problematical. But they are possible but ofcourse there is no objective way of proving them.


Dr. David Lane stated he saw the radiant form of Charan. But, he also noted one day when he questioned its veracity, it
disappeared.

It would be a major mistake to think
the people here have not had extensive
inner experience.

The problem is, they reject it as unreal.

We don't say anything, because we don't
think its any big deal now.

Just like Chand and U. G. and Jiddo Krishnamurti rejected it.

Hello everybody. All this reading is very entertaining, to say the least,and I have laughed alot but on a serious note...Walking away from RSSB was really psychologically damaging for me. For a long time there was much guilt and remnants of it still swirl in my mind. Part of me wants to believe but let's face it...I have never met one satsangi who has ever crossed the threshold of the third eye...all this talk in Science of the Soul and other books about ridhi and sidhis and spiritual powers and astral travelling to other regions. Has anyone actually had these experiences? Was all that stuff made up? I have my own stories about RSSB too and how I got in and what made me leave....but I tend to find it is the promise of a spiritual experience that lures one into asking for initiation. The chance to "die whilst living" and see the "macrocosm in the microcosm". Walt Disney should make a movie about it. Can you imagine the special effects?! Then I read about this thing called Kundalini. Most satsangi's don't usher the "K" word at Haynes Park. It's taboo...dark side stuff...like Lord Vader. What are your thoughts on that? Can anyone testify to a Kundalini awakening besides David Blaine? Probably not. After being initiated for 4 years and practicing day in day out with all my gusto...saw nothing. I spoke to satsangi's about it. The response I got was a joke. Anyway, it's reached the point where I scour the Earth for the Lament Configuration Box from teh movie Hellraiser in order to unlock the realms of pleasure and pain...am I on the right path?

Sunny Jay, I liked your comment. Honest, well-written, entertaining. It stimulated tonight's blog post:
http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2011/01/religions-and-rssb-should-come-with-a-guarantee.html

I included your comment in the post, after fixing some typos. I also figured that your "usher" above probably was supposed to be "utter." At least, "utter" makes more sense to me. If it wasn't your chosen word, I can revert it back to "usher."

So much anger. Satsangis don't seem to be able to get out of the first box. This is the journey that can take four lives. It's living on the razor's edge. No one said becoming a Saint would be easy. But to leave and then try to take others down with you - wow, that's a real mistake. Misery may love company, but if you can't make it, why drag others down to make yourself feel better? So transparent that that is what is going on here. This complaining just has no end, apparently. Who are you all going after when you are tired of this object of disdain?

Heather, hope you don't mind me observing that...

You sound angry. And you are complaining. How is your message different from the negative comments some people post on this blog about other subjects?

To Blogger Brian: It is still hard to believ that you are the man that wrote Life is Fair. I used to read that book all the time...loved the animations too:) Great idea. I just want to thank you for putting this whole website up. It really is comforting to know that there are others that had the courage to walk away from RSSB. To Heather...once in the RSSB cult it is really difficult to keep and open mind and question everything because the guidelines have been set and the agenda has been set too...i.e. once in RSSB; it is really difficult to continue being a REAL seeker of truth...because just like every other religion; RSSB requires one to have blind faith. Ironic that the Master rebukes other religions to be flawed with the concept of blind faith yet RSSB also follows suit.
I kind of blame the whole Jesus story...he really raised the bar with the whole miracle stuff etc...I mean which modern Guru can follow that?
Maybe Heather is right...maybe we complain too much on here...but all those religious nuts preach too much....there has to be some equilibrium surely!
Hey Brian, serious questiona: 1) did you write any other RSSB books besides Life is Fair?
2)When you walked out of RSSB, did the Master at that time try to contact you? I ask this because by being permitted to have a book published; you must of been a pretty big player in team RSSB...quarter back perhaps?
3)And Finally; if someone were to have the guts to ask Baba Ji for some money; something trivial like £1000..do you think he would give it?
4)Ok..one more question...I heard lots of miracle stories about Gurinder Singh when I was in RSSB...did you hear any about him?

You are not going to provoke me, Brian. The Guru does not need me to defend Him, either. And, the answer to my question is - you came after me.

Heather McConnell,

Your comment clearly shows that you are a sant mat believer who is presumptious and dogmatic about matters of which you have no real knowledge, and that you are also generalizing and actually quite mistaken about what other people here have said and are saying.

Moreover, you are the "satsangi" that doesn't "seem to be able to get out of the first box".

It is merely your belief that "this" is a "journey that can take four lives". but the truth is, that you don't know what if anything is anything beyond your own life at this present moment. you are foolish to presume anything about another lifetime.

Also, its pretty darn apparent that you don't know anything about "living on the razor's edge". so don't be such a hypocrite.

Also, who (besides you) said anything about "becoming a Saint"?? i doubt there is anyone on this blog who is trying to be some saint. this "saint" stuff is nonsense. people are fallible and imperfect human beings. no one was or is a "saint". thats just a naieve religious myth.

Also, no one here, including the author of this blog, is trying to "take others down". this notion shows how ignorant and mistaken you are.

Also, i hardly think that anyone here is in "misery" due to their leaving RS, or that those who have left RS are in need of any "company". it more likely that you are the one who desperately needs the company of the RS sheep. so then, why are you here?? it seems that you are the one who wants to "complain" and try to criticise people who no longer believe the RS nonsense and rubbish that you do??

It is qyuite clear to me that you do not know "what is going on here". and you are the one who is "complaining".

And lastly, fyi, i assure you that i, for one, am not "going after" anyone... nor do i have any "object of disdain". so i think you really have no clue about what other people think, or why they no longer follow RS, or what all is wrong with RS. you are just an ignorant person pinting your finger at other people because you don't like the fact that they no longer believe in your spiritual path, in your guru, in your religion. and thats your peoblem, not ours.

Heather McConnell,

Naturally it is discomforting to hear one's faith challenged. Your reaction is understandable, but do you really know much about the path you are on? You could check this out:

http://radhasoamis.freeyellow.com/

BUT, this is Mike Williams' site on the history of the Radha Soami movement. Not to be read by those who prefer to look at the movement with rose colored glasses.

Warning. You may find this history disturbing. In fact, I advise you not to read it. I only put this here for those with curiosity, an open mind and above all the courage to have their illusions challenged and possibly shattered.

Life is tough. Sometimes a little blind faith is soothing in what otherwise appears to be a random chaos universe. Maybe your faith is a blessing. I don't know. I haven't figured that one out yet.

Miracle stories are the only thing that RSSB...BSers have.Seems they all have a Grace story or entertain notions of Masters hand in their lives.All religions strain at this to make God more real and tangibly objective to them.Its probably a social hierarchy thing as well.All very very mundane.

Homer Simpson "Dear God. If you want me to eat this donut please give me no sign now.Thank you God"

GO and visit once there. Check all the account books from last 100 years. Will feel ashamed.

hi brian,
I have followed ur writings of late,you seem to have got a obsession with RSSB,so much so that you are just there to criticize everything associated with them!the thing is that what you write is quite incoherent! you seem to question the ways of the RSSB but there are no new methods told in there,they preach the same old principles of spirituality which have been taught in India for centuries!you have written so much against baba gurinder singh but nothing substantial came out of it! it appears while you were associated with RSSB some of your aspirations were not met,or you had some really bad experience! its good to present some negative sides of a system,but your case is very disappointing and really incoherent!

dheeraj, what do you mean by "obsession"? I rarely write about RSSB any more. I hardly ever think about RSSB any more. Except when someone like you asks me a question about the organization.

Also, what do you mean by "incoherent"? Point to something you don't understand in what I've written about RSSB. Then I can help you grasp what you're missing. Nobody else has complained about the clarity of my writing, though some people disagree with what I say.

Disagreement isn't the same as being incoherent. I think I make a lot of sense in what I've written about RSSB. If you think I'm wrong, be specific. It doesn't contribute to a discussion to simply say that someone is "incoherent."

I had many good experiences with RSSB during the 35+ years I was an active member. And I also had quite a few not-so-good experiences. That's life. It has ups and downs, a lot of changes. It's like a marriage and divorce. All the happy times aren't erased by the bad times. That's how I feel about RSSB.

We grow. We learn. Again, such is life.

[Tara is still having a problem with posting comments, so I've added this one for her, which was emailed to me. -- Blogger Brian]

Ha ! Ha ! Manohar !
Here are 10 questions for you.
If you can reasonably answer even one of them, we’ll have a conversation.

01. Have you personally checked the RSSB accounts in the last ten years ?

02. Who is the chief accountant at the Dera and who are the trust members who have access to the finances ?

03. Have you ever met or corresponded with any of the trust members regarding RSSB accounts ?

04. Why doesn’t RSSB present an external audit of all accounts ?

05. Where has the money from the Ahmedabad land deal gone ?

06. What do you personally know about Gurinder’s financial status in his pre-Guru days ?

07. If not Gurinder and his family, then who are the owners of Logos Holding Company Private Limited ?

08. Why is Religare the broking company for all RSSB deals, in India and abroad ?

09. Why are financial records periodically destroyed at the Dera ?

10. Where is the public financial history of the 355th richest Indian ?

I was initiated after a 10 year flirtation with Sant Mat - Not really thinking that such a beautiful concept could possibly be true without a catch. I was never asked for money ONCE in all those years, and it was never even alluded to. Eventually I was initiated in 1974, realizing I had nothing whatever to lose and all to gain; even if only 1% was true of the Master's promise. I went to Beas for a full 3 and a half months where I was fed and watered and looked after to perfection. At the end of my visit I felt I ought to pay something for this long stay. I was told they did NOT want me to pay anything at all in India, but IF I wanted I could put something into the funds in England. None of this has been made up at all. I am telling the truth as it happened. I don't feel the slightest bit 'brainwashed' at all. As regards all those whinging entities running around who expect to walk on water after shutting their eyes for 2 minutes a day or whatever, - Sorry, folks, it's much easier to pay the ferryman a couple of pennies to cross the river and be done with it! I never ever got into that silly nonsense ever. Sant Mat is never taught, it is caught. If you don't catch it, there is no problem either - Babaji makes NO claim that Sant Mat is the only way back and publicly says so. So those who find some objection can always look elsewhere, nobody will stop them or criticise them either!

Alan Sparrow,

It is made abundantly clear in the Beas literature and in the countless satsangs I attended...no one returns to the "father" except by the grace of a perfect living master and thereby merging with Shabd Dhun. Period.

Seems like Babaji is a bit of a rebel and a heretic, and a rich one at that.

I DID attempt to reply to the comment above by Pablo Thorson - But I am informed my detailed, polite response could not be accepted. I can only assume that this site is completely biased and censored by bigots who are terrified they might hear something which cuts near the bone - Just as my original message obviously did!

Alan, you jumped to an unjustified conclusion. When TypePad says the blogging service can't accept a comment, often (or usually) it is because a computer connection has timed out -- probably by leaving the blog post window open for over an hour or so without any activity on the page.

Likely solution: reload the page (command "R" on my Mac). This should make TypePad happy. This "we can't accept..." message has popped up on me before, and I'm the blog administrator. So don't take the comment rejection personally. It had nothing to do with the content of your comment,, being simply a computer timeout thing most likely.

Won't accept and other signs pop
up on me also. Best way to get around is to delete name, then retype your name (where it says name is required.)

I also got can't accept sign today.

Typepad definitely times out if you are writing a lengthy piece. Another way around this problem is to copy your material, refresh the page and then paste it in the comment box. You may have to rewrite your name or email as well, but Typepad will then accept your text.

Alan..take it as a sign that Babaji doesn't want you to post your opinion.I know plenty of strong heavy weight devotees who would.


TAO, MIKE, GEORGE, DAVID, BLOGGER BRAIN and all other neech who are against Guru Gurinder Singh Ji Maharaj... u all are a crook to add such statements. You all are person who have absolutely unscrupulous, with no noesis and greedy people who are so jealous of other who are dam popular and well affluent people then you poor chaps. Babaji clearly says that in this world, you have to earn, in order to live life. He encourages people to fulfil all humanly duties rather than going and mediation in mountains/ away from home. So, as he Himself earning as after all, He has his family as well.


Have you guys ever visited Beas/ Dera, Punjab (India)? The RSSB Headquarters is also known as the 'Dera'. The Dear is amongst the most well planned colonies of India with no air pollution. It is self sustaining community...Tumhara baap kabhi nahin gaya hoga toh tum kahan gaye hoge. OOH!! Sorry to ask obvious question because I know you people with unfit soul are not allowed. Just ask those people who have ever travelled to Beas, or any other center of RSSB. Every year, millions of Radha Soami followers travel to Beas to attend satsangs (discourses) often held at the Dera for weeks at a time. (That too without any publicity or hoarding.). The number of sangat (devotees) present on these days reaches several hundred thousand on the days of the Satsangs. For these followers, they maintain a free kitchen called 'Langar', as well as canteens and snack bars at a nominal price. The free langar complex covers over 48 acres (190,000 m2) and operates around the clock, capable of feeding up to 300,000 people per meal, 50,000 in a single sitting. Now, tell me... whose gonna pay for such a huge expense. Tum logo ka baap??

Again, do you know how much it cost to give accommodation to such a huge gathering? The colony is visited by people from around the world and by all walks of life. To provide temporary accommodation for everyone, a variety of facilities are offered. There are a number of guest hostels with individual rooms and attached baths, hostels with dormitory-style rooms, and other large buildings to house visitors. The visitors are provided free accommodation. This accounts a huge expenditure too.

Three Charitable hospitals were built and run by RSSB. Beas Hospital, Sikanderpur Hospital and the Bhota Hospital provide free medical care for the rural community surrounding it and aid the needy. They include free accommodation for relatives of their patients. For a number of years an annual eye clinic was run and held at the Dera, giving medical aid to people suffering eye-ailments, including the removal of cataracts.
RSSB also helps in relief efforts of victims of natural disasters.
The Dera seeks to be as self-sufficient and environmentally friendly as possible. Every year thousands of trees are planted. Many lawns and parks beautify the colony and provide space for visitors and residents to rest and relax. More than 1,000 acres (4.0 km2) of land are cultivated for growing vegetables and fruits that are used in the langar and by Dera residents. Organic farming methods are being adapted to local conditions. The Dera has its own water supply, water treatment plant and solid waste treatment facility. It has its own electrical sub-station and large electrical generator back-up facility to supply emergency power to the whole community.
All these things need funds. I guess you are not the one who pay single penny for the same.

The railway station of Beas is also very neat and clean. It is recorded in the Guinness book of records. The name of the Beas Railway Station is also included in the name of biggest Indian railway stations and these are Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkatta, Chennai and Beas. It is the cleanest station in India. There are so many greenery and parks in Beas railway Station
Moreover, you will find RSSB even in the smaller cities.

Right now, I am just talking about the Indian centers and majorly about Dera. Just imagine, the expense incurred by RSSB administration across globe. You people can’t even calculate that, for sure. So it’s better not write such comments. Tum log jab bhi bologe, gobaar ki karoge toh chup raho na…

Shilpi, I've been to the Dera twice -- in 1977 when Charan Singh was guru, and in 1998 when Gurinder Singh had taken over. Yes, the Dera is an impressive community. No argument about that.

However, I'd take issue with your contention that Gurinder Singh is "earning" his living, in the Sant Mat sense of the term, by essentially running a huge corporation that is led by Sant Mat initiates because he was given hundreds of millions worth of shares by other initiates who happened to be relatives and is revered as a spiritual leader by devotees.

Charan Singh didn't mix spiritual "business" with worldly business. Gurinder Singh does. That's a fact. You're free to make of that fact whatever you want to.

Yes, it shows that Gurinder Singh is one of us, so to speak. He's as interested in making as much money with as little effort as any other worldly-minded person. If that's how you feel God in Human Form should act, great.

Myself, I kind of like the idea of a greedy, materialistic god, because that means I'm well on the way to becoming godly myself.

THis Gurinder Singh bloke doesn't seem to mind that he has so much money that he can't seem to let go of it to give it to starving people in India and Africa. He has so much money that he can live comfortably off the interest after paying for living quarters and food for the rest of his life, but he seems lacking when it comes to distributing the rest of the millions to the poor, starving and destitute of India.

Can you take someone like that seriously?

Most of the yogis in India have no money. They beg from door to door for food, have nothing but a loincloth for clothing, and teach renunciation. How can you compare this with a millionaire guru? There is no comparison whatsoever.

Face it. Your "guru" leeches money from people, even people that hardly have any money in the first place, and uses it for his personal benefit because he doesn't have to work for a living. He has servents that dally to him all the time. Can you explain to me why this Gurinder imposter claims to be God incarnate but he NEEDS MONEY in order to survive the way he does? EXPLAIN IT.

Shilpi, your comment is not fully understood as the local language has not been translated, so fellow bloggers have missed the bad-ass vibe of it !
Let me decode your local digs.

Bloggers, please note that this kind of language is a commonly used by villains / goons / gang-lords / pimps and is downright street stuff at its crudest best.

Shilpi says — " ( names of bloggers ) and all other neech... "
Meaning — Neech ( here ) means lower level, lowly, down-class, filthy, untouchables.

Shilpi says — " Tumhara baap kabhi nahin gaya hoga toh tum kahan gaye hoge... "
Meaning — A derogatory phrase that translates as " Your father could have never been there so how could you... "

Shilpi says — " Tum logo ka baap ? "
Meaning — " Your father ? " It is recognized by general protocol that the use of the term " baap " or father in this context ( and the above ) would be an insult to the person and his lineage.

Shilpi says — " Tum log jab bhi bologe, gobaar ki karoge toh chup raho na… "
Meaning — ( This is nasty stuff ! ) " Whenever you speak, it is like f***ing horse shit, so shut your mouth... "

Eeeow ! I suspect that Shilpi may have been subject to some sort of trauma that has her lashing out with such crass. A male version of her type is best captured by the guy wearing the black jacket with shoulder-length hair in — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCARxpLy-8&feature=fvwrel

John Stamos you mean ?

Mmm... John Stamos in - ?

I wonder how much of this is owned by Gurinder SD himself... Any guess?

the rssb is for spiritual upliftment and not for creating interests in fiscal matters. get initiated work hard see the what wonders are done to you. donot jump to any conclusions.for spiritual upliftment years and years perseverance is required. once we accept a pious soul our master he remains so for births. he is always detached. you may say any thing to him. truly a master is lotus on water.

Babaji.. Dun hv single sec. to join u gyz as babaji.. Is alwys buzie wid dr teaching prgrm.. (chk out dr local n forgn schdls) 1 more thng... babaji is nt using ur or mine money to create dr asst! :) soon u gyz ll be d lover of rssb :)

I had a great laugh with all the conspiracy theories.

Gurinder Singh is an evil man laughing with all his money.

Also 9/11 was an inside job.

Illuminati controls the media.

Give me a break lol, I find it funny how some of these people here are trying to pinpoint an organization and there master with a "I know it all-wisdom" tone.

Keep your 3rd grade shenanigans to yourself.

Regards

Also funny to know that you moderate your comments.

So much for the truth ey, hypocritical much?

Pete, you didn't say what part of this post you thought was inaccurate. If you think there is a "know it all" attitude on this blog, please tell me what you know that is more accurate than what was said in this post. Otherwise, you will seem to be the person who is making claims that can't be backed up.

I guess you don't get around the Internet very much. Most blogs, newspaper sites, and such which get a lot of traffic moderate comments. Otherwise spammers and trolls take over. I still get a lot of spam comments, even with the comment moderation. The TypePad spam filter catches about ten times more -- which would all come through if comments weren't moderated.

All comments which are related to the blog post, and even some which don't, are published. I don't moderate based on whether someone agrees with the post, only on whether the comment is related to the post and isn't spam.

Have you tried leaving an unmoderated comment on the Radha Soami Satsang Beas web site? Or any comment at all, for that matter. Oh, I forgot -- you can't, because no comments, feedback, discussion, or criticism are allowed. And yet I'm supposed to be the closed-minded one? Give me a break.

Now really is it such a crime that he is a good businessman?

Is this really not what it is all about? Aint publishing books about the moolah at the end of the day? so he fleeces a few million suckers, aint that what everyone tries to do, some with more success than others?

On the plus side, he does build hospitals and shit...

George, has anyone accused Gurinder Singh of a crime? I'm not aware that anyone has.

Being a good businessman was what the guru of RSSB did before he ascended to the post of "God in Human Form." If he was such a terrific businessman, why didn't he become hugely rich before he became guru?

The situation is akin to Jesus preaching his gospel about "easier for a rich man...etc" and the need to live a virtuous life while simultaneously using the business connections of the Apostles to make hundreds of millions of skekels, or whatever money was called back in Judea several thousand years ago.

Wouldn't you think this would be incongruous, a "saint" preaching the importance of achieving salvation and returning to God, while at the same time throwing himself into personal monetary enrichment for he and his family, sitting on a board of directions filled with people who worship him?

That's the situation with RSSB. Hope this helps explain why the situation looks so weird, and so wrong, to those who are used to a different standard of behavior from RSSB gurus.

Wow, you summed it up nicely Brian.

Disciple's can either go brain-dead with the thing, lunge about with vituperative denial, or they can sharpen up their rationalization skills to try and shear that huge rope (Guru's monetary enrichment) enough to get it through the eye of the spiritual needle.

As a long term satsangi I have bought most of the books and looking at the prices... from $1.50 to $3.00.

Get real people!

Just wait a minute. Do you know anything about Gurinder Singh and Religare? The Gurinder Singh family are billionaires albeit in rupees.

Cheap books mean nothing. Most organizations give away publicity literature. By that standard, RS books are expensive.

Just ...

Subsidized " spiritual " reading material has nothing to do with a Guru's personal wealth. When the designated Perfect Living Master / God In Human Form takes on his role as the savior of marked souls from this pleasure infested plane, I do not see how that new role would fit in with corporate ambitions of any kind. He is here to liberate you from the circle of birth and death and your meditation is the means to overcoming the five evils which include greed and attachment.

How do you indulge and detach at the same time ? Is that even possible ?

IMO, for someone who has the password to Sach Khand, fortunes and commerce of this lowly plane wouldn't compare to the eternal bliss of RS heaven.

But Tara, maybe he wants to hedge his bets, might as well have a good time here on the earthly realm if he's wrong about the the kingdom of eternity..

What about the thousands of satsangis all around the world who enjoy Gurinder Singh's visits to their countries. Perhaps instead of his visits they would prefer trudging up to visit him in some mountain cave in India!

This is the modern world and he is a modern guru. I don't believe he is living off the sangat's donations, he is entitled to his own income.

Oh yes George, he should drop the GIHF claim and rock on ... :)

Just ... How " modern " is the RSSB literature ? Despite the fact that GSD has himself said " burn the books " you see the RS press in translation fervor. Why ? What should a follower believe — the new Oneness Satsangs or stories about Kal and Maya ? Is the publication department disobeying GSD by still hammering in the old school RS beliefs through their unchanged rhetoric ? Have you even read Sar Bachan ? Can you not figure the contradictions that abound ?

Of course, the Guru is not living off the Sangat's donations but are you certain that he has given 25 million ( one tenth ) to charity as clearly prescribed by the RS teachings ? How much do you know about how the other RS Guru's lived ?

By the way, mountain caves and glaciers in the Himalayan belt are a must see. You could do the 5 region journey ( Pakistan, India, Nepal, Tibet and Bhutan ) from Sikkim in a loop. You may chance upon a frail Sadhu or an old tibetan monk meditating in the uninhabited wilderness, a beautiful sight it is.

Just,

In the left column near the top of this page or homepage use the Google search. Enter the search words "Gurinder Singh Religare".

Gurinder Singh earns his own income in a very big way.

He is a very good guru to follow...to the bank.

I've been reading this article and comments and I'm not sure what the issue is... It looks like BJ and family bought some shares and sold them and made a profit. What's wrong with that? Am I missing something? Is there something wrong with him being wealthy? Or are you implying he has stolen money? As I'm sure any satsangi or ex-satsangi knows, masters never get paid by their disciples, they live off their own income. Historically I have read about spiritual masters who are poor or rich or anywhere in-between. Off the top of my head Kabir was poor weaver, Mira was from aristocracy, Buddha was a prince, Jesus a carpenter (quite poor I suppose)...there must be loads more. Any donated money gets used to provide some service (free food, accommodation, books and CDs at cost price etc...) I amd a satsangi and was initiated about 17 years ago and have never been asked for any donation and have stayed at Haynes Park on numerous occasions and Dera in India 6 times. I have generally found a spirit of generosity and kindness at these places. While there are certainly quite a few screwed up people who follow Sant Mat (not excluding myself!) I have always found BJ to be inspiring and patient and giving his time to answering questions and explaining the philosophy (which, let's face it, is not complicated). I am always open to learning anything new and I think it's good to question. I think Buddha said "Question everything!" I also seem to remember Sawan Singh saying if something can't stand up to questioning then it is worthless (something like that). I don't really care how much money BJ has; I am interested in what he says and how he conducts himself, and I am definitely open to learning!

Jimi, you are indeed missing something. Gurinder Singh got a special insider deal on the shares. He didn't buy them as a regular investor. The RSSB guru used his connections as God in Human Form to become rich.

The shares were essentially gifted to him by a disciple who also was a relative. RSSB initiates dominate the management of Religare, so there are inherent conflicts between Gurinder Singh's "spiritual" life and "personal" life.

Soon I might write a blog post about how the New Testament would look a lot different if Jesus had acted like Gurinder Singh has. That'll give you more insights into the weirdness of a "saint" using his sainthood to become hugely rich, which preaching the importance of returning to God and detaching from the illusion of this world.

Waiting for that post Brian, I've to write in replies to a few comments, which I will do, once I tide over a rather busy phase ... :)

And Jimi, you're so incorrect and entirely unfamiliar with the RS literature and the spirit of Sant Mat. Apparently, the higher up you go in your mediation, the lesser the lure for materialistic pleasures. Is that right ?

Thanks for doing a great job Brian. I hope bringing all these news out in public will at least raise some questions! RSSB is a cult and people believing in cult have become sick and i don't expect them to suddenly drop their idiotic belief and think rationally why their Master is laundering all the money! You are doing what Ali Sina (alisina.org) did for cult Islam! Leaving a cult like islam was impossible to even dream a few years ago but it is becoming reality now. Hopefully there is more light out there for the people who are stuck in RSSB cult!

I don't understand what the he'll these people are creating mess in spirituality the author who had posted this wall him self is Radha soami follower and he calls him self a true follower but in my opinion he just insulting his master in front of this whole world the reason for this is he is trying to get publicity for his own spiritual company the truly fake stories he had posted. At least our babaji is earning from his hardwork for bread n butter he is nt depended upon his disciples money or wealth like other spiritual gurus do I dnt understand why dnt this author writes about the thousands of fake spiritual gurus who every day arrested in some or the other scandal. It's my kind request to author pl do not try to hurt our spirituality and our faith our babaji is truly innocent and the best in the universe.

Allan Sparrow, and you don't think that what you said is strange?

"At the end of my visit I felt I ought to pay something for this long stay. I was told they did NOT want me to pay anything at all in India, but IF I wanted I could put something into the funds in England."

My family and I, I being the only initiate, no one else felt drawn to be one, were housed at a hostel, I guess, that is what it was, back in Charan Singh days and we literally froze, no heat, no fire. We paid for our food, at a nominal price. We were there for several days and we received no special treatment. So, this just bears out the racism part of the Dera experience. Maybe its different now in 2012, although several people have noted that nothing has changed as far as the special treatment foreigners receive compared to the Indian visitors.

Which brings me to the famous American saying:

Money talks and BS walks. Hee hee! Don't worry be happy.

Oh, somebody pleeeese watch and post a smile. Your Ok, I'm Ok, Guru is OK, what else could we ask for?

http://vimeo.com/35208015

Anku,

Do you know what sort of hardwork is Babaji doing to earn his bread and butter?

Thanks,

Woow.I must tell yaa all something((:
U R all right.(each 2his own understanding):
I wont tell you if I am the follower or not,
because it is not important in this issue.

What is important is to be mature(as S.Mat and
all good educations)are taching students to be,
before taking any spiritual path sireiously.

Maturity is not about the age,but thing of understanding
mixed with culture,which includes respect.(as in martial arts is.. very important to beconcored.
Respect means that one,however wise or intelegent or "spiritual is",doest try to force his wiews on the other person,but tries to understands him.
I saw Baba Ji tries very hard to understand many wiews of life itself,so he can give best explenation,if anyone asks him.

Tao saying goes:ask and U will look stupid only 5min.,dont ask and Uwill be stupid 4whole life.
RESPECT

Dzoni,

Babaji is never interested in giving explanations on subjects which are not spiritual. He is not at all interested in mental gymnastics. The only thing these kind masters want is to follow the teachings of the saints.

Maturity is to understand that these masters also have their own families to take care, they have their desires, ambitions and further they have the opportunity to live a comfortable life and as long as they are in human form, they have to live like human beings.

i have read lots of comments about the radha saomi beas,and i am no one to judge.All i want to inform my readers is that i am a catholic priest working for 30 years for the poor and especially the drop outs.WE are running a centre at raipur under the name of ST.vincent pallotti technical training centre for the past 25 years.Since three years i had given this centre to on MR.Sudama kundani to run it on my behalf as he deals with autos under the name of GURU VEER AUTO UNIVERSE.Now after 3 years he is not returning the centre back to us and has even dragged us to court knowing well that such matters will linger long.I trusted him because he went for satsang and believed him to be truthful but i realised that he is devil in god's clothing.He is sucking and living on the poor and depriving them of their rights to living.I do not blame the guru all I ask is will someone from the satsang help me out that i may help the poor rather that the rich becoming richer.Hope i am not rude.

Religare Enterprises remains then primary vehicle for which Radha Swami launders its funds.

Ha ha ha.
This is really entertaining.
To both followers and non-followers,
If only we had put such energy in getting something fruitful, world would have been a bit better place to live.

rags ...

It is fruitful to get the blinders off. That way, the world seems more real and definitely, a better place to live in. Except for the sucked-in RSSB Sangat, does anyone else want to live in delusion, guilt and fear ?

Tara:- so nice to read you again. I can't seem to escape delusion. I delude myself sometimes so I can get through my day. RSSB is somebody else's grand delusion....my own personal delusions give me more solace than Gurinder's so I dwell on them now instead of his dogma and that of his predecessors.

Weheguru will expose this crook Gurinder! And it will happen soon!
The radha soamis will then have nowhere to run & hide!

To Gurmit Singh...Gurinder is too stealth to ever get caught out or exposed but it would be interesting to see what he'd be exposed for, were that to happen

Fr simon Nazerth this is terrible. So sorry. Can't someone help.? At least some consolation father I am no longer involved. One more soul has been saved. Peace.

Here's the latest scandal to rock the spiritual world, has anyone heard of the hugging Amma? Well, here's a book published by her PA which talks about what happens behind closed doors in hugging Amma's ashram

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/others/sunday-read/In-the-grip-of-a-hug/articleshow/30868702.cms

Here's another link for the hugging saint

http://brontebaxter.wordpress.com/blowing-the-whistle-chpt-9-amma-the-mother-saint-hugging-away-your-personhood/

I think RSSB much better then other people fighting in Islam people fighting for partiality in UK USA even Australia even in Hindu and Sikh they fighting each other but here everybody cones no body fight for religion and black white people.
I m asking that people who are blaming how many people you feed in one roof food and how many people you say we all are one not diffrent . If running hospitals free of coast for poor people is wrong then what you will say right or wrong. People say go and do charity in Africa in India also have so many poors. The also comes in rssb.

Rssb is not world bank or brisc bank who can provide full facility to world poors the organize as much they can do in India and other country's for food and medicens.all are well come in rssb.

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