« Spiritual experiences don't exist | Main | d’Espagnat sees mystery at heart of reality »

March 23, 2009

Comments

Brian,
As always, a very thought provoking post! As to your question, "do we focus on doing different things, or on looking upon things differently?" -- My response is that it's not an either/or. In my estimation, both routes have merit.

That said, western society tends to focus on the former, while folks like you and I focus more on the latter.

This is a great post Brian. Its honest and right to the core of the matter.

I am of the same outlook as you have described yourself these days. It is all in HOW I see, in HOW I look at the dance of life in the present moment that matters most, and not WHAT I may see.

Its not WHAT I see (such as extrordinary visions etc) that makes me grow and achieve a deeper understanding and aliveness, but rather HOW I see the ordinary (although wonderous) happenings of everyday life.

This way of seeing/feeling is nice.(awareness).
Maybe 'believe' hasn't to do anything with it.
It's just about the way of looking..

Indeed believe-systems can stay in the way to be in here and now.

Keep walking Brian, keep trudging your path of self discovery, you may be halfway there or else perhaps you've just started, neither you nor anyone around here can know for sure, so search your inadequate intellect for the answers, they may never get satisfied this way or that, but long as you don't stop trudging to your destination, sooner or later, this yuga or the next, you may trip over your moment of awakening.

Like I said already it has hardly got all that much to do with you and your exalted aggrandized perception of how clever you may think you are, not in the very slightest does it have anything to do with that aspect of you whatsoever. The sooner you can get shot of that highfalutin aggrandized illusion of your self worth and high esteem the better, only then when you become less than the dust you so proudly trample on will there be any hope for your forlorn and weary soul.

Like I said keep on trucking boyo, keep on trudging that wearisome highway till your weary lonesome feet can trudge no more, then, and only then, you may find what you ultimately looking for.

You reckon 30 years is some way to go, perhaps you looking for a medal of courageous service, you haven't even started on the road to reality, not even half way to nowhere by my estimation, and I can assure you I'm not that far off the mark.

Brian,
I really enjoyed this post. I think if there is any change needed at all, it is not a change with what is, but a change with how one relates to life, or sees life, as you put it. I understand what it feels like to feel dissatisfaction, and I am coming to realize that letting go of the dissatisfaction is more conducive to happiness than trying to change the thing I am dissatisfied with. Of course there are times when it is necessary to act for change in a situation also.

ashy,
my question for you is, whether you are right or wrong, why do you care? What bothers you about Brian running this site?

ashy, I love your comments. It's like having a groupie who is obsessed with me. Well, maybe more like a stalker. But at any rate, I'm impressed with how concerned you are about my state of my possibly immortal soul.

Guess you didn't feel Catherine's warm, blissful ball of light. Maybe it will have a delayed reaction on you -- I feel like you need a big hug from someone or something. Seriously...it isn't healthy to be so angry.

Poor little "Ashy".

Ashy is nothing more than a deliberate troll who came here with an intentionally derisive attitude and a singular agenda to ridicule ex-satsangis, and to suppress critical thinking relative to Santmat and especially any criticism of the RS cult and dogma.

And unfortunately Ashy is the one who hasn't "even started on the road to reality, not even half way to nowhere", and who is so extremely "far off the mark".

It must be awfully tough for Ashy... down there in the South Africa RS sangat. Oh yeah.

Sound familar to anybody? LOL!

who knows I might even be your fairy godmother keeping you out from harms way of the wicked witch of the west.

ever consider it thus, could be worth a thought huh?

the only cult and dogma prevalent around here is this bunch of highfalutin self aggrandized self indoctrinated swathe of ass about face nincompoops

hardly anybody else.

heh heh. but heh I'm here, and I'm a hardly kinda guy... and I'm also 100 percent highfalutin & nincompoop free.


Dr. Covey used to tell a story – When riding on a bus a man got on with 2 young kids. The man was dejected, and just sat in his seat with his head down. Meanwhile his kids ran all over the bus raising a fuss. Dr. Covey and the other passengers were very disgusted with the man for letting his children behave in this way. So – Dr. Covey got up and went to the man and told him that his children were being disruptive. The man said; “I know. We just came from the hospital. We were in an auto accident and my wife, their mother, was killed and we are all very upset.”

Hearing this explanation Dr. Covey and the people on the bus had a paradigm shift. Instead of being upset with the man and his children they felt empathy for them and tried to help the man and his children.

So, I agree with you Brian. Seeing differently, having new eyes or flipping into a fresh way of experiencing life is like the paradigm shift Dr. Covey mentions in his story. No doubt, Ashley is like a child thrashing about and being disruptive because he is lost and cannot deal with his situation in any other way.

Zen as presented by Allen Watts is the only rational spiritaul outlook of everyday life i've encountered. There's no believeing beyond what is actual.

But i'm out for the experience of unending joy and beauty.

Are internal experience real or not is why people want to see physical miracles. There's no other way to proof it.

Can assure you its absolutely no skin off ones nose one way or the other whether the illuminated highly educated PhD's and psychoanalytically minded grandiose Harvard graduates in here conjecture and cajole their intellectually contrived minds to classify any particular individual as child like, or out of control.

The reality of it still stands that no amount of intellectual regurgitated gymnastics, no matter how profound and elevated you couch your analysis will take you one step or one iota closer to any goal whether spiritual or other.

This is all akin to beating about the bush, whisking away at the froth of nonsensical hyper analysis without achieving anything whatsoever, it is simply a forum for exercising the mind and intellect and in so doing airing ones egotistical traits for all and sundry to notice.

No wonder any teacher worth his salt forbids such exercises in futility, as they are fully aware of the resultant consequences of such futile, egocentric, non elevating practices.

If anyone could get anywhere nearer to Nirvana or Samadhi through twiddling on their laptops while exercising their crass engrossed intellects, then the entire educated middle American society would have reached bliss and near perfection by now.

ashy, it's a miracle! Apparently you were able to post your comment without "twiddling on a laptop"! How did you do it?

Or... are you the proverbial kettle calling the pot black -- spending lots of time on the Internet telling people "Don't waste your time on the Internet!" And analyzing the heck out of blog posts while advising people, "Don't analyze!"

In your quiet contemplative moments, do you ever get a glimpse that maybe, just perhaps, you are the enemy that you're fighting so mightily against?

nice to make your acquaintance said the one egotist to the other, so here we are two ego's thrashing away at the very core of the oblivion, either the penny drops and the lessons get learned or we continue thrashing away at fresh air and our egotistical froth, devoid of any substance.

You reckon there is something to be learned from this discussion or discourse, I say no, it remains a forum for those like you and I who have failed to grasp the core essential reason for our very existence, and that is to find out who we are, you wont find it on here, and neither will I.

Ashy,

I am now starting to feel that you are possibly ready for Dzogchen. Your seeming anti-intellectual, anti-analytic, anti-reason, anti-debate, anti-conceptual stance can be used to great advantage in the realization of Dzogchen, the self-perfected, self-liberated state of primordial awareness... or as you prefer to put it: "to grasp the core essential reason for our very existence, [...] to find out who we are"


Thanks, but I have my way, my path, my Dzogchen already mapped out, long before this body became manifest the path was laid, the hook baited, and cast into the mighty ocean waiting for the lone hungry marlin to catch the baited lure and bite.

And the deep sea fisherman knows, the inevitability of his line.

Once the raging marlin (untamed individual mind) has taken the inevitable bait there is but one inevitable result, no matter how long it takes, and how far out to sea the marlin pulls and tugs the fisherman's boat, or dives to the depths of the deepest part of the ocean, the fisherman lets loose the line giving the fish sufficient rein to soar and dive so as not to snap the line.

But once tired and worn out, the burning fire of the pain of the hook buried deep within his nose, will entice the weary marlin to swim back towards the boat and to the inevitable end, his head on the inevitable chopping block.

Ashy wrote:

"This is all akin to beating about the bush, whisking away at the froth of nonsensical hyper analysis without achieving anything whatsoever, it is simply a forum for exercising the mind and intellect and in so doing airing ones egotistical traits for all and sundry to notice."

--So what?

"If anyone could get anywhere nearer to Nirvana or Samadhi through twiddling on their laptops while exercising their crass engrossed intellects,.."

--What if it's not possible to get any closer than that? That is, what if 'Nirvana' or whatever you want to call IT is already present? Where else would it be?

"...it remains a forum for those like you and I who have failed to grasp the core essential reason for our very existence, and that is to find out who we are, you wont find it on here, and neither will I."

--How do you know the core essential reason for our very existence is to find who we are? What if there is no reason at all for our existence because what we imagine to exist as 'us' does not exist in the first place? What if what we are doing here right now IS the 'reason' for our 'existence"? What's wrong with typing and thinking?

What if the marlin is the boat? How could it swim back to itself?

What if? What if? What if?... Ah hah!

Ashy wrote:

"Thanks, but I have my way, my path, my Dzogchen already mapped out, long before this body became manifest the path was laid"

-- Thats all just an idea in your mind... that you think there is a "my way", that a "path" was "mapped out", that there was a "long before". You're lost... and thats precisely because you really think that you found your way.

Also btw and fyi, dzogchen is not a "way" or "path". You have ignorantly presumed that it is a "path". But dzogchen does not mean anything like that at all... and your response only goes to show that you really know nothing about dzogchen (as I expected), but thats not because you are unable to learn. Its because your mind is closed and so you won't learn. You think that you already have THE answer. You think that you know the way, the only true way. You think that you know. you only believe. However, because of all that, you are closed-minded and blind to the great mystery. You are closed and blind to the immanent reality. You are all but closed off, and thus you are ignorant of the actual meaning of dzogchen - of the nature of self-liberation, the intrinsic self-perfected state.

"Once the raging marlin (untamed individual mind) has taken the inevitable bait there is but one inevitable result..."

-- "untamed individual mind" you say??? LOL

"...no matter how long it takes, and how far out to sea the marlin pulls and tugs the fisherman's boat, or dives to the depths of the deepest part of the ocean, the fisherman lets loose the line giving the fish sufficient rein to soar and dive so as not to snap the line. But once tired and worn out, the burning fire of the pain of the hook buried deep within his nose, will entice the weary marlin to swim back towards the boat and to the inevitable end, his head on the inevitable chopping block."

-- Oh please, spare us from all such lame babble. Your little allegory is just more of the same tired old dualistic santmat rhetoric. Its dead. Its pseudo-mystical garbage, and it doesn't impress anyone.

If you are not willing to come up to speed, but merely wish to continue parroting the same old santmat dogma, in the same old self-righteous manner, then its likely that you will begin to become very ignored here.

Ashy wrote (in a previous post): "you and I who have failed to grasp the core essential reason for our very existence"

-- There is no such "core essential reason for our very existence". But you think that there is, because you (like many people) live in a world of fantasy and myth... and that is simply because you have failed to recognize the spontaneous and paradoxical nature of so-called 'existence'.

There is no answer, none at all, you think you can learn love, no such luck, you either have it or you don't, its either given you or it ain't, you either appreciate its grandeur and beauty or you wrangle on forever looking for answers.

not even one word, nor paragraph, that you have written here thus far shows its author to be an individual who knows anything of love, who has any love, or who is a loving person towards others. its all talk and no walk.

Ashy said "Like I said keep on trucking boyo"

I've recently read 'Angela's Ashes' a autobiography or memoir written by Frank McCourt and Irish author. Within said book is a sex scene in which Frank takes off all his clothes and gets and erection, his partner looks at him and says "Lord, you might be a scrawny bit of a fellow but that's a fine boyo you have there". This leads me to believe that in the 1930's in Ireland, more specifically Limerick Boyo was a slang term for a penis.

Just as each and every one that is proselytizing his ego out here in all its unabashed vanity is precisely all talk and no walk.

You reckon you can walk on an internet blog site, not possible, that you do in your own proximity and not here.

I said it before its a venue for thrashing out ego, nothing more and nothing less, will hardly ever be anything else but that, and that is precisely why it may be frowned upon by those who know the value of humility, which does not include you or I.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.
Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...