My strange RSSB initiation story

A few days ago I talked about how I came to have doubts about the guru-centered faith, Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), that I followed diligently for over thirty years.

One of the commenters on that post asked a question about why I was so gullible in accepting teachings that, in retrospect, seemed so unlikely to be true.

I responded that all of us believe things which we're mistaken about. Discarding worn-out beliefs and accepting new ones is part of life's maturation process. I also said that to attempt to answer that question I'd need to tell the tale of how I came to be initiated into the RSSB fold.

This is a strange story. I don't think I've ever shared it on the Internet, though I've told it verbally quite a few times.

Satsangis (which is how RSSB initiates describe themselves) like to talk about how they came on "the path." You get bonus points for the unlikeliness of the events that led to applying and being accepted for initiation by the guru.

For example, moving in to an apartment that was completely vacated by the previous owner except for a single RSSB book, which, when opened, instantly speaks to the eventual initiate.

I've heard many stories along these lines, as have other satsangis. Yet often when I've finished telling my own, I hear: "Wow, that's the strangest initiation story ever."

Not having made much progress in losing my ego, that gives me a certain satisfaction. Guess I'd rather be strange than nondescript. So I'm pleased to retell my tale, attempting to be as brief as possible (always tough for me, given my writing style).

I can justify the likely rather considerable length of this post by the lesson that it may hold for others. However, I can't say what that lesson is, since people will look upon this story in idiosyncratic ways.

A RSSB true believer, which I no longer am, will probably think, "Ah, the guru works in such marvelous ways." A skeptic's thoughts will run more along the lines of, "Fooled once, fooled twice."

Whatever. I'll just tell it like it was. You can decide what to make of the telling. Read on, if you like.

--------------------------

San Jose State College, south of San Francisco. 1969. Flower power era, but on the declining crest of hippie-dom. I was heavy into marijuana, psychedelics, reading Zen, and shunning anything remotely religious.

One day I was walking across campus and saw a guy standing on his head. Some other Yoga devotees were with him.

That was who I later came to call "Yogiraj." I won't share his real name -- no reason to. He was an intense Greek in his early 30s or thereabouts who drove around San Jose in a VW bus with "Christananda Ashram" and the Sanskrit Om symbol emblazoned on the side.

Before too long my girlfriend, Sue (whom I later married), and I were riding around in the VW. Curious about Yoga, the on-campus demonstration led me to pick up a flyer.

Sue and I started taking classes in hatha yoga and meditation. The "ashram" was in Yogiraj's home. He was married to a younger American girl. His mother lived with them. She'd make terrific baklava and other Greek goodies.

I became one of Yogiraj's lead students. And definitely acted the part.

The Christananda ashram was a close-knit group. Most of us had some connection with San Jose State and were about the same age, late teens or early twenties.

In 1970 we opened the second health food store in San Jose. That also was the year Yogiraj married Sue and me. Outside. Accompanied by sitars and such from the Ali Akbar Khan School of Music. I wore the same shirt as in the photo above. Very hip.

Then things started to get weird. Well, let's say even weirder -- but at the time our connection with Yogiraj seemed normal by 60's standards. Meaning, comfortably far out.

We and the other students were used to mind-expansion through drugs. Yogic meditation looked like another way to enter a higher state of consciousness. Gradually we tapered off psychedelics and marijuana. Meat also, as Yogiraj was a vegetarian.

He also was a collector of initiations.

Ever eclectic. he'd proudly speak about the numerous yoga teachers he'd studied with and, briefly, become a disciple of. Then he'd move on, incorporating what he'd learned into his own Christian/Yoga blend (Yogiraj's religious background was Greek Orthodox).

In 1970 (I'm pretty sure it was) another guru came to his attention. Charan Singh, leader of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas organization, came to the United States on a tour.

I'm vague on the details of how Yogiraj learned about him. Or whether he heard Charan Singh talk in the Bay Area. Regardless, Yogiraj followed him to his next stop in Los Angeles, as I recall.

There, somehow he got himself accepted for an on-the-spot initiation by Charan Singh. This was unusual. At the time the standard RSSB operating procedure was for someone to apply in writing for initiation and then wait several months for the application to be processed.

Yogiraj was a persuasive guy.

Greeks are good salesmen, something I saw every time I worked in the health food store.  I recall that he said he got an interview with Charan Singh and talked him into the initiation.

Anyway, Yogiraj returned to San Jose with a new yoga wrinkle: the teachings that he'd picked up from Charan Singh's initiation and some RSSB books.

Per usual, he wasn't much into crediting the source. Yogiraj simply presented those teachings as his own. Even though he'd only recently been initiated into the RSSB system, he apparently felt that he had it down (to my knowledge he never went to a RSSB meeting, or "satsang," after his initiation).

I'd arranged a Christananda ashram weekend at a (broad-minded) Catholic retreat center in the town where I'd grown up: Three Rivers, nestled in the Sierra Nevada foothills.

(The St. Anthony Retreat Center is still operating. Check out the uplifting view.)

During the retreat Yogiraj initiated a bunch of us into his meditation system. Which, as you can probably guess, bore more than a coincidental resemblance to that of Radha Soami Satsang Beas.

Yogiraj set himself up as the "perfect guru" instead of Charan Singh. He used RSSB books to teach us about the philosophy. I remember opening up the one he'd given me when I reached my room at the retreat center (first volume of "Philosophy of the Masters" by Sawan Singh).

The first few pages I read made me feel, "This is for me." It sounded so real, so authentic, so mystical.

It never dawned on me, nor the half dozen or so other people Yogiraj initiated, that we were getting an imitation of RSSB's Sant Mat teachings, not the real thing. Yogiraj had his own "five holy names" mantra. Except, they were Greek words, not Indian.

And after the initiation ceremony I was given a rosary and told to do a Christian sort of thing: repeat the mantra so many times (Catholics do this after confession with the Lord's Prayer).

So we Christananda disciples left Three Rivers, went back to San Jose, and kept on doing what we'd been doing -- including working in the ashram's health food store.

There we spent some of our time following after Yogiraj, repricing items that he'd marked up excessively (tip: if you ever feel like going into business with a Greek Yoga teacher with a black beard and crazed dark eyes who blends Christ with Krishna, don't.)

Eventually our true believing minds started to wake up to what was going on. A core group, six of us, read more RSSB books. We talked among ourselves about the difference between what Yogiraj was teaching and RSSB's Sant Mat philosophy.

One day, after the store closed, we got up the guts to confront Yogiraj. What a scene it turned out to be. I still remember it well.

We were standing near the back of the store, us six in a semi-circle facing Yogiraj. We told him about our doubts -- that what he was teaching at the ashram had been copied from RSSB and wasn't the real deal.

Yogiraj's reaction was fiercely intense.

Those Greek eyes blazed with anger. "Charan Singh isn't my guru!" he yelled. "Christ is my guru! He talks to me! He tells me what to do!"

That was enough. With those words it all became clear. We knew that Yogiraj went on his own retreats down in his basement, doing god knows what. What it was, we now realized, was him getting face time with Christ.

More accurately, what he imagined to be Christ. (Christians, of course, would disagree with my skepticism.)

So that's how I came to be initiated into Radha Soami Satsang Beas. All six of us, in fact.

We broke off with Yogiraj after that illuminating encounter in the health food store. Initiation applications were sent off to India and we were accepted. In the spring of 1971 the "Christananda Six" were initiated by a Charan Singh representative, Roland de Vries.

Until recently, I looked upon this strange story in the aforementioned "guru works in mysterious ways" fashion. I assumed that Yogiraj's initiation by Charan Singh was part of a divine plan intended to lead the six of us into the RSSB fold in a round-about way.

Well, maybe. Who knows?

Now I can also wonder: Why would a supposedly omniscient guru/god-man, Charan Singh, agree to play along with a plan by Yogiraj to essentially defraud his yoga students? And if he didn't know about the plan, how can Charan Singh be considered a "perfect master"?

There's more that can be said about all this, but I've done enough saying. It's a story with a lot of question marks. I don't know what it means, like life itself.

For me the satisfaction is in the telling, not in the understanding.

Comments

[Juan]

Fooled once, fooled twice, Trecera vencida.

Just kidding.

[albert]

One should try one's utmost to find the Living Sant Sat Guru of the time. He would, of His own Grace and Mercy, get all doubts removed and render the disciple fit to return to the Prime Abode. A lifetime spent in such a search is not wasted. Seek and keep seeking; yearn and keep yearning. Surely, the day will come when the genuine Sant Sat Guru will call you to Him. If yearning is sincere, such a feat will occur this very day.

[Brian]

Um, Albert, as I said in this post I did find a supposed "Living Sant Sat Guru of the time" (Charan Singh), was initiated by him, and dutifully followed his instructions almost to the letter for over thirty years.

So I don't need to keep yearning, do I?

[Roger]

Brian,

You mentioned,

"Yogiraj had his own "five holy names" mantra. Except, they were Greek words, not Indian."

---Brian, what is the English translation for the Greek words? Could you list them, with their meaning too?

Thanks, if you can. No big deal, if this is another confidential mantra situation.

Best wishes,
Roger

[Juan]

Albert, Has that genuine Sant Sat Guru called you or you are still seeking and yearning.

[Brian]

Roger, I can't remember the names (thankfully). Not a matter of confidentiality, just of memory.

[tucson]

My strange and fascinating RSSB entry and release:

In 1968 an acquaintance invited me to a satsang.

I read RS books and went to satsangs.

I requested and was initiated in 1970.

Went to India in 1974.

Went again in 1984.

Charan Singh dies in 1990.

By then I was already drifting away.

Saw Gurinder Singh in 1991.

That finished it.

[Stuart]

Brian wrote:
> I don't need to keep yearning, do I?

It's not for nothing that Buddha's teaching gives so much focus to yearning (aka desire or wanting). Mr B says that it's the cause of suffering, worth looking into.

It's a similar process regardless of what the want is directed to. If a want appears for Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream, there's a tendency to robotically go out and get some. Buddha suggested a different alternative: becoming conscious of the desire itself, of the mind that wants to get something.

Yearning for the Grace and Mercy of a Living Guru is fundamentally the same as wanting ice cream. The same mind, just with a different object. SURE, the object makes a difference: desiring carrots is better for your health than desiring ice cream. But investigating the wanting mind -- the source of suffering -- isn't a matter of just finding a different thing to want.

Typically, the process works like this. I pursue my wants till it produces sufficient suffering. Perhaps the Chunky Monkey is making me uncomfortably overweight, or my Living Guru is found to have a Swiss bank account and is boinking teenagers. The suffering makes me dispair of ever getting enough of what I desire; this somehow motivates me to examine the original cause of suffering in my own thinking.

Finally, a purely logical point. WHATEVER happens in life, we can always find a string of highly unlikely events that led up to it. The fact that I bought a particular box of granola is dependent on all sorts of different factors, leading the granola to be right there on the shelf at eye-level as I passed by.

Zillions of things happen to us everyday. Many of those things are unlikely; the secret is VOLUME. Hell, by the math alone, we can expect at least one miraculously unlikely thing to occur per month. In the great majority of cases, we don't pay enough attention to examine the unlikelyhood of events. When we focus on anything -- not excluding meeting a Guru -- we're bound to find miraculous coincidences.

Stuart
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/booboo.htm

[tucson]

I like Stuart's comment, like many he puts up here.

It's hard not to want. Even wanting not to want is a want. What to do? Just let the wanting go its merry way.

[Rain]

Coming from what was a Christian religious viewpoint, this whole idea of finding a god-man teacher master and staying with that personage is hard to relate to. In Christianity there is the belief Christ will come again but when he does, there would be no looking around wondering who he was. Many would believe god is within us and in New Age there is more of that thinking that we are all divine but you wouldn't go looking for somebody else in that event as it'd be within you.

I have never had the kind of experience of wanting this divine mentor here on earth where you would evidently study with them forever? In Christianity, you would find a teacher here or there but none are divine and not likely people would stay with one for a lifetime. Nor would they tell anybody what to do in terms of say jobs or who to marry or whatever a master (who was on a god level) might be able to tell you.

Probably I have been too much of a skeptic to ever really accept a divine person living on earth. As was mentioned above, they often show their human side more than the divine at some point.

Pagans (which is what I call myself) don't really look for anything like that in someone else, but might enjoy a group experience of drumming and dancing naked around a bonfire on say a Solstice. I haven't ever done that because really stay out of all religions at this point, but hear it's a neat experience but no gods there... hopefully no police either *s*

I hesitated to write this because I don't want to be putting down what others believe or benefits them. It sounds like it is a need in some maybe? I used to think finding a mentor would be nice but I can't imagine wanting to find a master... of that sort anyway.

[tucson]

Rain wrote:

"In Christianity there is the belief Christ will come again but when he does, there would be no looking around wondering who he was."

--I wonder why the first time he was unrecognisable to many, and the second time would be different?

"I have never had the kind of experience of wanting this divine mentor here on earth where you would evidently study with them forever?

--In RSSB the guru, who is supposed to be God in human form, takes you to God in God's Godly form which is formless and then his job is done. In Christianity don't you go to heaven and "dwell in the house of the Lord forever"? Isn't Jesus supposed to be there too, forever? Christians seem to like the idea of hanging out with Jesus forever. That's a good thing isn't it?

"Probably I have been too much of a skeptic to ever really accept a divine person living on earth."

--Didn't you believe Jesus lived on earth and was divine?

Sorry. Just being a smart-ass. Don't take it to heart.

[Rain]

Well considering I left religion as such and in particular organized Christianity and therefore am only talking about what it taught, I don't take offense; and yes, they would believe that. The reason you'd not have to wonder this go round is he's supposed to be out of the sky with catastrophic events, like the ultimate war.

You know I believed a lot of things at one time that fit with it because I thought I needed to experience that and I did. Then came a time when it quit making sense to me. That's why I don't 'put down' what others believe because I know what I once believed-- or did I say I did and try to make myself? That's a question I cannot answer. Fortunately I don't try to. I do though really know what Christians believe because of 30 years into that thinking.

[Stuart]

Here's something weird. In the comments above, I wrote (at 2:32pm) about how miraculous coincidences are inevitable in ordinary life. In the same comment, I wrote about wanting-mind, using as an example the desire "for Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey ice cream."

Immediately after posting this, I got an email alerting me to a comment on my own blog, which had been written at 2:26pm. It was written by someone I'd never met virtually or otherwise. The screen name that this commenter used was "Chunky Munky."

Is this an example of the frequency of random coincidence? Or evidence of a Divine Force controling the world, mocking me for questioning its omniscience? It's beyond my pay grade to say for sure which it is... but if I had to wager hard-earned money, I know which side I'd bet on.

Stuart

[Rain]

You know in Christianity, Jesus's teachings are really secondary to the sacrifice. The cross is what is at the heart of Christianity which is how you get so many calling themselves Christians today who don't really even know what he taught...

[zenjen]

I wonder if the disillusionment felt by initiates on the path comes from a reaction of their shadow selves. They then project their repressed feelings onto the teacher, the Master.

Extracts from “Illuminating the Shadow …”:

http://www.scottlondon.com/interviews/zweig.html

…In psychology, the dark side of human nature is often described as the alter ego, the id, or the lower self. The great Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung called it the "shadow." By shadow, he meant the negative side of the personality, the sum total of all those unpleasant qualities that we would prefer to hide.

…A loss of faith… people in the New Age or counter-culture — people who have been really involved in spirituality and Eastern philosophy — have had experiences in which either their teachers or their communities broke their hearts in some way.

…There is an enemy-maker in each of us. We make enemies of the people we love the most and the people we know the least. We talked earlier about projection. There is a part of us that attributes to groups an us-and-them quality. They are unacceptable because they are not wealthy or they are not educated or they are not the right color or whatever it is. This is an aspect of the shadow erupts and turns people into the other, into the enemy.

…As repugnant as the idea may seem, we need enemies.

…Midlife seems to be a crucial turning point for many people.

…Carl Jung used to talk about "holding the tension of the opposites" as a basis for working with the shadow.

I have read somewhere the zen masters practice ‘eating their shadow’ – which they do by behaving unconventionally.

[Brian]

zenjen, I think you're over-analyzing. It's simple. Disillusionment comes from giving up an illusion. That's a positive truth-affirming act. It has nothing to do with a "shadow self" in my experience.

Disillusionment is what happens when reality breaks through fantasy, denial, imagination, wishful thinking. It's a mature response to life -- not always pleasant, but who says truth is supposed to be 100% fun?

[tucson]

Zenjen,

I can only speak for myself, but my departure from Sant Mat was not bitter or out of disillusionment or failure, although I admit I never made it to Banwar Gupha and the rotating cave or even Mansorovar where dweeps of hansas dwell in ecstasy far beyond the ills that plague this coarse and noisome realm of Pind.

This is not to say I claim a superior vantage point. It is more like I have no vantage point at all or need one. I have seen there is no vantage point that can be acquired. Who could there be to acquire it? That which would acquire anything is just another passing phantom, idea or memory.

It was more like shedding an old skin I didn't need anymore. It just sloughed away. Something had changed and Sant Mat wasn't part of it.

Still, the object "tucson" carries on with his activities and the various ups and downs as perceived according to his mood of the day.

[zenjen]

Brian and Tucson,

Thanks, I like your responses.

Being stubborn, I'm still going to hang onto my dream of becoming a hansa dwelling in ecstasy. This world is so boring. What is reality anyway?

I think this world is an illusion and becoming more aware and in tune with my inner self I hope to break through this illusion one fine day.

Cheers

[tAo]

Here's my own RSSB affiliation story:

Late 1960s thru early 1970s -- I was drawn and traveled to Morocco, the Mediterranean and the Middle East, and then on to Iran, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afghanistan, and back again to India. I continued to live and travel all about India and the Himalayas as a serious yogi/sadhu/sannyasi for a few years. I visited many ashrams and met and hung out with many yogis, sadhus, swamis, gurus, and sages... some well known and others more obscure.

Early 1970s -- Later on, after I returned to America, I eventually briefly rented a room in a guys house in N.W. Washington DC. He was a serious macrobiotic and also a serious RS satsangi. He told me a wee bit about Sant Mat, but since I'd already done some very heavy mystic-tantric-yogi-sadhu tripping in India for a few years, I wasn't all that much interested in another rather big and organized authoritarian guru trip like Radha Soami.

Mid 1970s -- Then I happened to come across a book about RS Sant Mat (I believe it was Radha Soami Teachings by Puri) in the library at the house of a lady friend where I was a roommate in the hills of Berkeley, California. I read the book, and curiously I also vibed with the photo in the front of the book of Sawan Singh, who was affectionately called "Great Master".

Mid 1970s -- Then I met some satsangi women (back in Washington DC again) who all urged and invited me to attend the RS satsang there. Although maybe they just liked me because I was 'spiritual' and a single guy. So anyway, I went with them to Virginia and we saw a long silent video of a Charan Singh darshan... but I was not at all impressed. In fact, I was terribly bored, and I also felt that these people (all of the satsangis at the meeting) were spiritually immature neophytes. I just couldn't wait to leave.

Same time period 1970s -- But then I later hooked-up with one of the satsangi women - she was from South Africa and was going through a divorce from an American CIA agent. I moved in with her and stayed for awhile, and while there, I read juts about all of the many RS books in her large collection of RS literature. This gave me a pretty comprehensive understanding of the RS teaching, cosmology, and practice.

Same time period 1970s -- Then I finally decided to go ahead and simply submit an application for the RS inititation (which I did)... mostly because even though I had already read all of the RS books, I was curious to find out the so-called secret simran mantra and also the particulars of the meditation technique & practice.

Same time period 1970s -- Some several months passed and I was then sailing and living on a sailboat down in Key West, Florida. While there, I finally received a letter from the east coast RS representative (who btw was quite into eastern philosophy) by the name of Mr. Hank Weekly. The letter said that I had been accepted for initiation by Charan Singh, and that I should go soon to St Petersburg, Florida to be formally initiated. So I drove up from Key West on the appointed date and was duly initiated.

1982 -- By this time I had moved to and was living in Santa Cruz, California. By chance I met another woman satsangi (a doctor who also became my wife). We started living together, and then went together to the Dera to stay for several months beginning in January 1984. We also subsequently attended various satsangs and bhandaras around California, but gradually less and less frequently.

Early 1990 -- Years had passed, and then we finally decided to return once again to the Dera in Februrary 1990. We again stayed at the Dera for a few months, met personally with Charan a couple more times, and then finally left the Dera in April and went south and toured all of south India. Charan then soon passed away in early June 1990.

1990s -- After returning from India, and after Charan passed on, we completely ceased going to RS satsangs. The only one exception was when the new guru-successor Gurinder Singh first came to San Francisco in about 1991, I believe. Upon seeing and hearing him speak, I was extremely uninpressed with Gurinder, and after that we became quite disillusioned with the RS path, its dogma, its very cultish satsangis, and its organization... and so I/we did not have any further involvement with RS from that time on.

And so... "That finished it."

[ADam]

Brian, you write in response to ZenJen's comment:

"zenjen, I think you're over-analyzing."

Do you realize this is the very defense your faithful Sant Mat friends throw at you at your Sunday coffee talks when they say you "think too much"?...

[the elephan]

As a yogi tAo must have mastered the art of duplicity!

tAo wrote:
"Late 1960s thru early 1970s -- I was drawn and traveled to Morocco, the Mediterranean and the Middle East, and then on to Iran, Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afghanistan, and back again to India. I continued to live and travel all about India and the Himalayas as a serious yogi/sadhu/sannyasi for a few years. I visited many ashrams and met and hung out with many yogis, sadhus, swamis, gurus, and sages... some well known and others more obscure.

Early 1970s -- Later on, after I returned to America, ..."

tAo wrote:
"However, btw, I DO "know a whole lot about science and the scientific method"... because I just happen to have earned two PhDs, doctorates in two separate scientific fields (Psychology, and also Physics & Electronic Engineering) during the late 1960s and early 1970s - one from Stanford Univ. and the other from Princeton Univ. - so don't even bother trying to say or imply that I am somehow not familiar with science... or to try to bullshit and skirt your way around this issue again Marcel. You just don't have the 'right stuff'."

Back to the elephant:
today a Ph.D. in Electric Eng. in Princeton (takes at about 4-5 years and mostly everywhere else but I know first hand about Princeton since a friend of mine took 5 years to finish his a few years back). Perhaps the requirements were far less in the late 60s.

[Brian]

ADam, you're right: I enjoy analyzing. What I objected to in zenjen's comment was the Jungian interpretation. I don't resonate with talk of shadows and such. That's what I meant by over-analyzing.

It's sort of like when people say, "Whenever we don't like something in somebody else, it's really something in our self that we don't like."

Well, maybe. But it seems simpler to say, "I don't like X because he cheats people." Or, "He murdered someone." I've never murdered anyone. So how is it, from a shadow perspective, that I can dislike something in someone else that isn't part of me?

Maybe because a like is just a like, and a dislike is just a dislike. We can get more complicated than that, but I'm not wise enough to go there.

[gardenphilosopher]

Brian,

The understanding I have gained from reading about Jungian psychology and the shadow lead me to believe that stating "Whenever we don't like something in somebody else, it's really something in our self that we don't like" and accusing someone of being a murderer (or gay) because he doesn't like a murderer(or gay sexuality) is a new-agey and often intentional oversimplification (read bastardization) of the whole concept of the shadow. It is twisted and perverted in this manner all the time to justify all sorts of personal judgments or throw out the whole concept. Unfortunately, this puts people off exploring the real potential of personal, institutional, and even national awareness possible from reflecting on a more in-depth study of the shadow and perception.

In my metaphysical/spiritual readings over the years I have sometimes read that a "saint" casts no shadow . . . and while some, interestingly and perhaps strangely, have taken this to mean no physical shadow, I believe it refers to something else and have enjoyed contemplating this.

[manjit]

Thanks Brian for sharing (and Tucson & Tao)

Stuart - as usual, I really resonated with your 1st post, and laughed out loud to the 2nd!!

Whatever the 'real' explanation to that coincidence/synchronicity, they really, really do fascinate don't they??

[Brian]

Rain, given our upcoming freezing Oregon weather, probably naked dancing, drumming, and such around a bonfire to celebrate a solstice would be best in June, wouldn't it?

If I'm invited to a winter event, hopefully I can wear a coat. (But I'd still want the women to be naked; females have a higher body fat percentage, so they'd keep warmer. And if they were good looking, I'd be hot too.)

[Rain]

*laughing* I think you have a good point there, Brian. It would take hearty pagans at best, wouldn't it...

[Deepak Kamat]

Hello Brian and all Churchless friends,

This is my story.

I live in Mangalore - a semi-urban town in South India. At the age of 17 (exactly 17 years ago for I am now 34), I had a tremendous sense of insecurity or curiousity (call it what you may). So I started reading spiritual books of spiritual Gurus. In my place, there are spiritual Gurus on almost any street.

But I was largely impressed by three spiritual Gurus -- Osho Rajaneesh, Swami Vivekananda and Sawan Singh (Radha Soami Satsang, Beas). I came to know about Radha Soami Satsang through my neighbour who used to say that Gurinder was God-incarnate although I had my own doubts.

Later, when I went to Mumbai satsang, I began talking to several rustic satsangis (somehow I had the impression that God talks only to simple people who are not encumbered by great philosophies. I found that the system works only on faith (which I didn't have). So I went about the business of cultivating faith. But one of the rustic satsangi told me that all my doubts would be resolved on the day of my initiation.

And, believe it or not, it did. On December 2000 when I was initiated by Babaji (GSD), I did see a beam of light coming out of his third eye. I swear I am not lying.

Today, I am skeptical about the entire philosophy. But I do believe that something happened that day. It may be my faith or it may be the power of the Guru. I really don't know.

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Yoga (Application) which was based on the control of the body physically and implied that a perfect control over the body and the senses led to knowledge of the ultimate reality. A detailed anatomical knowledge of the human body was necessary to the advancement of yoga and therefore those practising yoga had to keep in touch with medical knowledge. (Romila Thapar, A History of India, volume one).

I suggest : Mind and brain are two distinct things. Brain is anatomical entity whereas mind is functional entity. Mind can be defined as the function of autonomic nervous system (ANS). It is claimed that mind can be brought under conscious control through the practice of meditation. But how? ANS is largely under hypothalamic control which is situated very close to optic chiasma (sixth chakra or ajna chakra). Protracted practice of concentration to meditate at this region brings functions of ANS say mind under one’s conscious control. It is, therefore, claimed that the Surat Sabda Yoga which is practised by the followers of the Radhasoami Faith is the best form of meditation. It is in fact 3-in-1.

ANS is further divided into parasympathetic nervous system (PSNS) and sympathetic nervous system (SNS). On the basis of these facts I have discovered a mathematical relationship for spiritual quotient (S.Q.). Spiritual Quotient can be expressed mathematically as the ratio of Parasympathetic dominance to Sympathetic dominance. PSNS dominates during meditative calm and SNS dominates during stress. In this formula we assign numerical values to the physiological parameters activated or suppressed during autonomic mobilization and put in the formula to describe the state of mind of an individual and also infer his/her level of consciousness.

Meditation is the art of looking within and science of doing nothing. We don’t use anything in meditation. We just try to concentrate to meditate at some point in human anatomy known as ‘chakra’ in Indian System of Yoga. The current of mind is flowing outward through the senses and unconsciously. The mind comes at rest gradually through regular practice of meditation. Then comes self realization and enlightenment. Protracted practice of meditation under qualified guidance will help to manage all sort of psychological problems.

Emotional Quotient can also be expressed mathematically as the product of I.Q. and Wisdom Factor. E.Q. stands for Emotional Quotient. An intelligent person may not be wise. But a wise man will always be intelligent. An intelligent person having certain level of positive emotions can be said as wise. An intelligent person lacking wisdom will turn autocrat. A wise man will always be a democrat who respects others existence.

Some may raise doubt that how could be the Wisdom quantified? The answer is simple -if Mental Age of I.Q. can be quantified then Wisdom can also be quantified, of course, comparatively with more efforts. Wilhelm Stern had given the formula of I.Q.. It is, Mental Age/ Chronological Age x 100. Spiritual Quotient (S.Q.) leverages both E.Q. and I.Q.

[Amirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Excerpt from "The Yoga of Physics" by Fritjof Capra, his keynote address at the Los Angels symposium on Physics and Metaphysics, on October 29, 1977 is given below for reference.

"What is the nature and origin of the universe? what is space? what is time? Throughout the ages men and women have been fascinated by these questions. Different approaches have been developed in different cultural contexts and at different times."

"We shall look at modern Western science, on the one hand , and Eastern mysticism - particularly the tradition of Yoga - on the other. We shall see that they lead to very similar views of the world."

"My field is Physics, a science which, in the 20th century, has led to a radical revision of many of our basic concepts of reality."

"In the Yoga tradition it is said that there are many paths, all leading to spiritual knowledge and Self-Realization. I believe that modern physics, to some extent, can be such a path. Its view of the universe is in harmony with those of the great yogis and sages. In that sense, I'm going to talk of the Yoga of Physics."

A very detailed and elaborate descrption of the universe is available in the religion of saints particularly Radha Soami Faith.

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Radha Soami Faith is a branch of Religion of Saints like Kabir, Nanak, Paltu, Soamiji Maharaj and others. You may call It a New Wine in Old Bottle. We should not expect any miracle overnight.

In this discussion, it appears, that experts from various disciplines are participating someone of course from psychology. He /she can understand my views more clearly.

Maslow has given Hierarchy of Needs. At the top of it is need for self-actualization or self-realization.

In our society we should learn To Live and Let Live and help to satisfy others need. When the lower order needs, physiological and sociological both, are satisfied then only a person think to satisfy need for self-realization in true sense. Else he/she may spend all his/her life to satisfy at the most the for self-expression instead of self-realization.

It is, therefore, the duty of every responsible person, at the least, of our society to give serious thought over it.

For the satisfaction of need for self-realization i.e. establishment of harmony of individual consciousness with that of universal consciousness we need following three things:

1. Mater or Guru (A Self-Realized Soul)
2. Secret of Levels of Universal Consciousness
3. Method for traversing the path.

Radha Soami Faith may provide best comprehensive package.

[tAo]

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "a perfect control over the body and the senses led to knowledge of the ultimate reality."

-- Incorrect. Many persons have great contol over the body and senses, but unfortunately have NOT automatically achieved any "knowledge of the ultimate reality." And furthermore, there can be NO such "knowledge of ultimate reality" as it was/is implied.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "It is claimed that mind can be brought under conscious control through the practice of meditation."

-- The all-important keyword here is "claimed". A claim is merely a conjecture, it is NOT a proven fact. Most of the adherents of the various belief systems such as this, They do NOT assert established proven facts. But yet they assume that others should accept their claims AS facts. This is faulty reasoning.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "It is, therefore, claimed that the Surat Sabda Yoga which is practised by the followers of the Radhasoami Faith is the best form of meditation."

-- Again, the main keyword here is "claimed", but also "Faith" as well. There is simply NO established proven facts that "the Radhasoami Faith is the best form of meditation". None whatsoever. So it is indeed merely a "Faith".

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "In this formula we assign numerical values to the physiological parameters activated or suppressed during autonomic mobilization and put in the formula to describe the state of mind of an individual and also infer his/her level of consciousness."

-- The "state of mind of an individual" can NOT ever be reduced to a mere simple formula. And it is absolutely absurd and foolish to even try to do so.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "Meditation is the art of looking within and science of doing nothing."

-- "looking within" what? And how is "doing nothing" a science? This is an absurd idea. And no one can ever 'do nothing'. Life is constant change and activity. There is simply NO such thing as "doing nothing"... much less being a "science". This is just another example of absurd pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo, being presented as a "science". It is pseudo-science, or rather, it is NO science.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "The current of mind is flowing outward through the senses and unconsciously. The mind comes at rest gradually through regular practice of meditation."

-- Incorrect. The very nature of the mind is such that it NEVER comes to rest. The very nature of the mind is activity and change and duality... mind is transitory. Mind can never ever be "at rest". And moreover, in reality, there is NO mind. So this assertion of: "mind comes at rest gradually through regular practice of meditation", is fundamentally false.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "Then comes self realization and enlightenment."

-- There is NO such thing as "self realization and enlightenment". For WHO is there to gain "self realization and enlightenment" ???

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "meditation under qualified guidance will help to manage all sort of psychological problems."

-- Another unfounded and unsubstantiated claim. And what exactly constitutes "qualified guidance" ??? Is that just another assuption based on faith as well?

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "A very detailed and elaborate descrption of the universe is available in the religion of saints particularly Radha Soami Faith. Radha Soami Faith is a branch of Religion of Saints like A very detailed and elaborate descrption of the universe others."

-- Again, the keyword here is "Faith". And a "very detailed and elaborate descrption of the universe" doesn't amount to very much. There are countless theories and "descriptions" about the universe. They are ALL spectulative. And what constitues so-called "Saints"??? And who says "Kabir, Nanak, Paltu, Soamiji Maharaj and others" are "Saints"??? ...as if saying that is somehow supposed to mean something significant and credible??? Well it doesn't.

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "We should not expect any miracle overnight."

-- Forget "overnight"... How about there have been NO miracles even over over a period of many decades??? And in fact, how about NO miracles EVER?

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "For the satisfaction of need for self-realization (...) we need following three things: 1. Master or Guru (A Self-Realized Soul) 2. Secret of Levels of Universal Consciousness 3. Method for traversing the path."

-- Well first, how do you assume that "self-realization" is needed? And second, there is NO absolute "need" for any so-called "Master or Guru, or for any "SEcret of Levels of Universal Consciousness", or for any "Method for traversing the path". And btw, what "path" is that?

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi wrote: "Radha Soami Faith may provide best comprehensive package."

-- Yes, the Radha Soami "MAY" possibly provide "best comprehensive"... but that is still very debateable. And just where is the evidence to show that it is the "best comprhensive"??? There is little, if any, evidence to be found. In order to show that Radha Soami is in fact the "best", some definite evidence must be provided. Otherwise, it is nothing more than mere opinion.

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

It appears that tAo's objections are totally biased. If I agree with tAo's objections then what is correct-whether he will tell us? However, I am grateful to tAo for his painstaking effort to respond to my posts. Here is one more post:

COMPREHENSIVE VIEW OF SCIENCE OF RELIGION (THEOLOGY)

I have written following two papers which may lead to the realization for a higher theory of everything:

(i) Gravitation Force is the Ultimate Creator,
(1st Int. Conf. on Revival of Traditional Yoga, Lonavla Yoga Institute, Lonavla, January, 2006)
(ii) In Scientific Terminology, Source of Gravitational Wave is God
(2nd World Congress on Vedic Science, BHU, Varanasi, Feb 2007)
I have presented these two papers at the two different International Conferences. I am now submitting some views for being considered for Unified Field Theory

From Scriptures: (Prem Patra by His Holiness Huzur Maharaj)
The Current which manifested in the beginning of the creation is the Current of Sabda (Sound) and of Chaitanya (Consciousness). From whom that Current issued forth is known as Soami (Supreme Being). This Current, by turning back can merge again in the Holy Feet of Supreme Being. The entire creation manifested from this current and is sustained with its energy and when the Current of the Holy Feet is withdrawn, the creation ceases to exist.This Current of the Holy Feet is the Reservoir of all energy, tastes and pleasures, knowledge, skill, shapes, forces and light etc. etc. and of the entire creation, is also the Creator of all of them.

From Science:
Gravitation Force is the cause of manifestation of the creation (birth of planets, stars), its sustenance and when it is withdrawn towards centre or source the entire creation ceases to exist. Photons have originated from gravitons. In black holes photons merge into gravitons. In Black Holes, Gravitational Force is so high that it does not allow even light to escape. What does it mean then? It simply means that the gravitational force at black-holes attracts light towards it with much greater velocity than the speed of light. In fact, all forces including electromagnetic force, material force (strong and weak nuclear force) all merge into gravitational force in black-holes and becomes one force there and when the creational process starts again from a Black-Hole all the forces appear (manifest) again and descends downwards to create billions of stars, planets, satellite, asteroids and various life forms.

Hence it can be assumed that the Current of Chaitanya (Consciousness) and Gravitational Wave are the two names of the same Supreme Essence (Seed) which has brought forth the entire creation.

All cosmological researches should be conducted keeping in view of the following philosophical facts:
It has been stated in Bible (John I-1) “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,”
Mohammedans hold that God uttered ‘Kun’ (i.e. ‘Came into being’) and the creation came into being (Holy Quran, Sur. Bakr (II.117).
In Chhandogya Upanishad it is written “Tadaikshat bahu syam prajayeyeti” (VI-2-iii) i.e. “It thought (desired) Would that I were many! Let me procreate myself!” The Aitareya Upanishad says,”Sa ikshat ‘lokannusrija’ iti (I-1-i) i.e. “He bethought himself (desired) – ‘Let me create worlds’, etc. etc.
It is written in Chapter VII of Srimad Bhagavadgita : Sri Bhagwan said, “Arjun, now listen how with the mind attached to Me and practicing Yoga with absolute dependence on Me, you will know Me in entirety and without any shadow of doubt” (1). I shall unfold to you in its entirety this wisdom alongwith the Knowledge of the qualified aspect of God, having known which nothing else remains yet to be known in this world (2). Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, reason and also ego; these constitute My nature eightfold divided. This indeed is My lower (material) nature : the other than this, by which the whole universe is sustained, know it to be My higher nature in the form of Jiva, O Arjuna. (4-5). Arjuna, know that all beings have evolved from this twofold Prakriti, and that I am the source of the entire creation, and into Me again it disappears.(6)
The Radhasoami Religion also tells that, the ‘Word’ mentioned above is in fact Current of Sound or Current of Consciousness or Prime Current of Spirituality which was issued forth from its Source, or Creator or God. This Current has later on produced light and other forces. The scientists are discussing these days about dark energy which constitute about 96% of the entire universe which is not known to us. Only 4% part of the universe is known to us by all scientific means. In fact this 96% invisible portion of the universe is the vast expanse of spirituality which can be designated as field of gravitational waves in scientific terms. Visible portion of the universe (4%) consists of consciousness (gravitational force), mental force (electromagnetic waves) and material force (strong and weak nuclear force).
Body = Nuclear Force (weak as well as strong)
Mind = Electromagnetic Force.
Consciousness = Gravitation Force.
According to Radhasoami Religion the whole Universe can be sub-divided into three grand divisions viz.
1. Region of Pure Spirituality
2. Region of Subtle Maya
3. Region of Gross Maya
Nuclear forces dominate Region of Gross Maya (Gross Material Region), Electro-magnetic forces dominate Region of Subtle Maya (Subtle Material Region) and Gravitational Force dominates Pure Spiritual Region.
This is the only Truth which can be verified scientifically and can be termed as ‘higher theory for everything’. This also supports the statement of Sir Sahabji Maharaj that ‘the goal of science – Truth; the goal of philosophy – Ultimate Reality; and the goal of religion – God’ are the three names of same supreme essence.
Many things are common between Current of Consciousness and Gravitational Wave.
1. Current of consciousness can not be seen by any means and gravitational wave can also not be seen.
2. Current of consciousness is the weakest force on earth. Its strength goes on increasing on higher regions. Gravitational force is also very weak on earth and strong on Sun and even more stronger on black holes.
3 Tendency of both current of consciousness and gravitational waves are towards their source or centre.
4. Current of consciousness and gravitational force are both regarded as the creater of all the celestial and terrestrial bodies of the whole universe. They are also sustainer of these and when they turn back towards their source or centre the whole universe will collapse.
Hence it can be assumed that the source of current of consciousness and gravitational wave is the same i.e. God or ultimate creator.
This theory is based on scientific deduction. In scientific terms it can be said that the ‘gravitons’ are the elementaryparticle which was issued forth in the beginning of the creation accompanying with sound ‘Radha’

[Jayme]

Hi Anirudh Kumar Satsangi,

I don't know much about physics and much less about theology but it seems that this series of posts you've made are highly conceptual and even speculative. If taken literally, the cosmology of Sant Mat would need to be much more complex than it is.

The property of a wave is to radiate "away" from its source. Incidentally, if the speculation that gravitational waves equate to consciousness is true, a fat person will be more conscious than a skinny person.:)

Personally, the sound and light may not necessarily be objective physical phenomena so much as subjective noumenal apparitions. Anyway, your references do indicate similar sound and/or light forms claimed by Surat Shabd Yoga but if I understand correctly, they cannot be claimed as authoritative since they cannot be objectified outside personal experience. Thinking about such things seems to hinder my devotion. I'll quote one of only a couple things I've ever highlighted in my readings of Radha Soami books:

"Intellect cannot lead us anywhere, but the satisfaction of the intellect will give you faith and practice: If you try to brush aside your intellect and try to attend to meditation, you will never succeed. Intellect will always jump in the way. But if you satisfy your intellect with reasoning, then faith will come and practice will come, which will then take you to your destination."p60, Die to Live, Charan Singh

"First he (the intellectual) creates a problem with his intellect; then he wants to solve that problem with his intellect; then he takes pride in solving it or feels frustrated in not solving it. That is the fate of an intellectual person."p61, Die to Live, Charan Singh

For the surfer dudes in this forum -

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencetopics/largehadroncollider/3314456/Surfer-dude-stuns-physicists-with-theory-of-everything.html

So there you go. All that gravitational wave-motion may have been opening up his inner consciousness. :)

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Thank you Jayme for your very quick response. No matter how someone responded. Surely one day people will realize the correctness of my views.

[Jayme]

I request a Turing test of the last response. Judges?

[tAo]

Anirudh Kumar Satsangi has written:

"It appears that tAo's objections are totally biased. If I agree with tAo's objections then what is correct-whether he will tell us?"

-- Unfortunately you are again blatantly incorrect. My so-called "objections" stem from basic reason and logic, not bias, so therefore my position is not "biased" at all.

However, just about everything that you have written by yourself (apart from the other unnecessarily lengthy quotations that you posted) is clearly extremely "biased" in favor of various unsubstantiated concepts of religion and religious faith, philosophy, and mysticism.

Furthermore, no one asked you to "agree" with anything. I simply pointed ut that your views are based merely upon faith in sant mat religious doctrine, concepts, and cosmology, and NOT upon any proveable facts or substantial evidence.

Your position, which is extremely typical of so many other satsangis of the Radha Soami persuasion, is based entirely upon mere presumption and belief, and (as Jayme rightly pointed out) it is entirely subjective, and is not based upon demonstratable objective fact.

You, like all the other satsangis before you, are wasting your time (and our time) using this forum to preach your Radha Soami doctrine.

Fyi, almost all of us here are very familar and experienced with the teachings and philosophy of Sant Mat... so please don't continue to belabor the point. There is no need for you to post lenghty arguments and especially various quotations in favor of Santmat/RadhaSoami. Its boring and its lame of you to do that. No matter how much of that kind of stuff (religion, mysticism, philosophy, science, etc) you quote and post, it will NOT prove anything and will not win your argument. The best you can do here is just simply to share YOUR OWN original thoughts and experiences and opinions etc.

Because by doing what you have been doing so far, you are only serving to make Santmat/RS beliefs look worse, not better. Many others have done exactly what you are now doing, and it just does not fly. So wake up and get a clue. No one is going to pay any more attention to you if you continue on with the same nonsense.

"COMPREHENSIVE VIEW OF SCIENCE OF RELIGION (THEOLOGY)..."

"I have written following two papers which may lead to the realization for a higher theory of everything..."

"I have presented these two papers at the two different International Conferences. I am now submitting some views for being considered for Unified Field Theory"

-- Thats all a load of nonsense. Just go read and study my own scientific papers that I mentioned here recently. And then re-evaluate YOUR so-called "COMPREHENSIVE VIEW". And then I'll listen to what you may have to say. Here is the site: http://www.categoricalanalysis.com

"From Scriptures: (Prem Patra by His Holiness Huzur Maharaj)..."
"From Science..."
"All cosmological researches should be conducted keeping in view of the following philosophical facts..."
"It has been stated in Bible..."
"In Chhandogya Upanishad it is written..."
"It is written in Chapter VII of Srimad Bhagavadgita..."
"The Radhasoami Religion also tells that..."

-- Yadda yadda yadda... Like I said, you can post that kind of religious and philosophical stuff from now until eternity... but it won't amount to anything. Zip. So wake up and get a friggin clue.

"No matter how someone responded. Surely one day people will realize the correctness of my views."

-- "the correctness" you say? And what makes you think that you have proven any "correctness"? And what ARE YOUR "views"? And I don't mean tons of useless mystical and scientific quotations.... I mean YOUR OWN VIEWS. Are your own views nothing more than Santmat/RS? If that is the case, then so what? That does not prove anything.

And this is NOT the place to preach Santmat/RS... so why are you? If you have something original, then lests see it. Otherwise, don't just parrot the same old same old. We've been over this too many times before.

Didn't you bother to even read what this site is all about? The title of the site says: "the ChurchLESS". It does NOT say: The Church of the Radha Soami Doctrine. It does NOT say: "preachers and clones of mystical mumbo-jumbo are welcome".

It says: "Preaching the Gospel of Spiritual Independence".

So WAKE UP and pay ATTENTION dude. And go get a REAL LIFE while you are at it... your own independent spiritual life, and your own independent mind, not some re-cycled dogma.

[Anirudh Kumar Satsangi]

Many views on the Origin of Universe are available. Most popular view is that universe was born with a big-bang from a highgly dense energy point. But I have some different view on it. I think the universe was not born from a concentrated point or ball like structure but it has been evolved from an infinite vast expanse of field of gravity. Philosophically or religously we may call it field of consciousness or spirituality.

A great flow of current of gravitation force descended down from this source and has created many regions of pure gravitation force below it. This was the creation for quite some time in the first phase of the creational process. In the second phase when when the current of gravitation force further descended down then electromagnetic forces and matter (weak and strong nuclear forces)manifested and the entire universe of the second phase was completed with the admixture of all the forces viz., gravitatin force, electromagnetic forces, and matter (weak and strong nuclear forces. The completion of the whole cosmos in two phases was also hinted in one of the speeches of Prof. J.V.Narlikar some years back. When the process of creation of universe reverts back the matter merges into electromagnetic force and then finally electromagnetic forces merge into gravitation force and nothing remains except field of gravity. The cycle of universe completes like this.

[tAo]

yawn

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